Tommy Hearns vs Felix Trinidad @ 154lbs

barry · Post by **barry** » 01 Feb 2006, 19:50

borinken25---Couldn't have said it better myself! Decagon has a different view of research than what we do...he bases most of his views on assumption and guess work...as you plainly can see!

Axe · Post by **Axe** » 01 Feb 2006, 22:09

Hearns' chin was relativley good at 154, Tito's was not. Also, they were not in the same league. Hearns KO2.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 02 Feb 2006, 02:42

I have about 30+ years of experience as a boxing fanatic fan

damm i wish I had that. I havnt even been close to being alive for 30 years

barry · Post by **barry** » 02 Feb 2006, 04:09

>>>I gave two counterexamples.<<<

We had already read about Benetiz earlier, so you didn't tell us anything we didn't already know, but has Hearns ever been able to rise from a solid knockdown and go on to win very, very convincingly against a very solid, quality opponent? Trinidad certainly has!

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 02 Feb 2006, 07:31

Decagon wrote:
Max Molyneux wrote:If Tito lands then he could win as Hearns didn't have the best chin.
How would he land against Hearns's defense, though? And Hearns's chin at 147 and 154 was pretty damn solid.

Well he'd still land a punch anyway but if he lands a good one it could change the fight.

Borinken25 · Post by **Borinken25** » 02 Feb 2006, 11:34

What many people fail to realize is that Trinidad was notorious for his punching power and I don’t think that the corner of Hearns be stupid enough to send Hearns and tried to trade with Trinidad. How can a trainer send Hearns to stand in there and trade with Trinidad? I think Hearns will be aware of Trinidad’s power and tried to box, because if he trade and
Tito land first Hearns will go down and if something Tito did good was finish with style and once he got you hurt his accurate punching percent went to maybe 60 to 70% I think its been proven that Trinidad problem was with extremely good defenders and slick fighters and Hearns doesn’t fall in that category and the difference in height will not be that much. Trinidad was a slow starter because not too many will stand in from of him in the first few rounds and the ones who did they still looking for the truck that hit them. To totally dismiss a puncher who has to be ranked at least in the top 30 to 35 punchers of all time is completely beyond me, especially with someone with a suspect chin like Hearns. In my opinion Trinidad has at least a 35 to 40% of winning this fight.
This just my opinion.
Hagler vs. Trinidad less than 0% chance of winning for Trinidad
Leonard vs. Trinidad 0%
Benitez vs. Trinidad 5%
Duran vs. Trinidad 30%
Hearns vs. Trinidad 35 to 40% (you must take into account his suspect chin)
Cuevas vs. Trinidad 90% chance of winning for Trinidad (I picture same scenario as Mayorga)
Palomino vs. Trinidad 90%

Borinken25 · Post by **Borinken25** » 02 Feb 2006, 11:38

Axe wrote:Hearns' chin was relativley good at 154, Tito's was not. Also, they were not in the same league. Hearns KO2.

Hearns was KO at 147 by Leonard and Tito's were flash knockdowns he received at 147. When did you see Tito hurt at 147 or 154? The only time he was hurt was against Hopkins. So how can you prove that Hearns chin was better than Trinidad?

walshb · Post by **walshb** » 02 Feb 2006, 12:39

It took a helluva effort for the peak Ray Leonard to TKO Tommy in 14rds and Tito good as he was was not in Leonard's class. Ray did just about everything better than Tito. Also at 154lbs Tommy was even a better fighter than at Welter, it was more his natural weight. Tito I don't think would last, considering Oscar did so well against him and threw away the final 3 rds. Tommy is a cut above Oscar and he could wallop much harder. Hearns by early clean KO...

Borinken25 · Post by **Borinken25** » 02 Feb 2006, 13:26

walshb wrote:It took a helluva effort for the peak Ray Leonard to TKO Tommy in 14rds and Tito good as he was was not in Leonard's class. Ray did just about everything better than Tito. Also at 154lbs Tommy was even a better fighter than at Welter, it was more his natural weight. Tito I don't think would last, considering Oscar did so well against him and threw away the final 3 rds. Tommy is a cut above Oscar and he could wallop much harder. Hearns by early clean KO...

Agree Leonard was far, far ahead of Tito in boxing ability and class, but at the same time Leonard was far, far behind in punching power. Also agree that Leonard did just about everything better than Tito, except KO people which Trinidad did a lot better than Leonard. I wouldn't take that many shot from Tito to bring down Hearns.

Borinken25 · Post by **Borinken25** » 02 Feb 2006, 14:05

Decagon wrote:Trinidad was better at kayoing guys who came right at him, but he wasn't as good overall at knocking out fighters than Leonard was. Leonard could knock out all sorts of boxers, Trinidad only one. Anyone who boxed and move went the distance with Trinidad or beat him.

Now I heard everything, Leonard better a Kayoing than Tito. Are you really serious?

walshb · Post by **walshb** » 02 Feb 2006, 14:30

As Welters go I would definitely give Leoanrd the edge as regards punching speed, accuracy and even power. Leonard competed in an era of real class and took out some stiff opposition. Leoanrd definitely had KO power and how can you say that Tito hit harder??. Tito was knockng out weaker opposition, I'm convinced of that. Put them in a fight and Ray KO's Tito. I say Leonard hit harder P4P at Welter/Super welter.....

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 02 Feb 2006, 14:45

Tito is NOT Hearns' QUALITY.

If Tito was scared to get inside against Delahoya and Wright, what can we think of him against a TERROR LIKE HEARNS???

Tito probably would not even sign for the fight.

Another thing. Hearns if he wins by decision it would have been so LOPSIDED and probably would have won with jab alone.

I cannot see a fighter that lost to Winky, with Winky's jab alone, beat an EXTRAORDINARY FIGHTER like the Hitman... HEARNS IS One of the best fighters that I have ever seen in my life and certainly a top 50 ALL TIME great fighter by anyone standars. I cannot think of Tito as a top 50 all time great fighter, not even a top 10 all time welterweight

WHAT A MISMATCH THIS FIGHT WOULD BE.

tiredoldngrey · Post by **tiredoldngrey** » 03 Feb 2006, 04:57

People forget that Hearns kod Duran at 154 in quite a show, but otherwise idn't set the wor on fire. The Hearns that fought Mark Medal ain't beating Trinidad.
At 147...Hearns would nail Trinidad early. If Felix got up and recovered like he tended to do he'd get Tommy late; I always felt Hearns was vulnerable to a left hook but his height protected him and Trinidad was tall at 147 as well.

Borinken25 · Post by **Borinken25** » 03 Feb 2006, 10:53

tiredoldngrey wrote:People forget that Hearns kod Duran at 154 in quite a show, but otherwise idn't set the wor on fire. The Hearns that fought Mark Medal ain't beating Trinidad.
At 147...Hearns would nail Trinidad early. If Felix got up and recovered like he tended to do he'd get Tommy late; I always felt Hearns was vulnerable to a left hook but his height protected him and Trinidad was tall at 147 as well.

I have to agree 100%

Grimm · Post by **Grimm** » 03 Feb 2006, 10:53

I'd have to say 154 is the best weight for both of them, they were too skinny at 147.

But the only thing Trinindad has better than Hearns is heart.

Borinken25 · Post by **Borinken25** » 03 Feb 2006, 11:06

walshb wrote:As Welters go I would definitely give Leoanrd the edge as regards punching speed, accuracy and even power. Leonard competed in an era of real class and took out some stiff opposition. Leoanrd definitely had KO power and how can you say that Tito hit harder??. Tito was knockng out weaker opposition, I'm convinced of that. Put them in a fight and Ray KO's Tito. I say Leonard hit harder P4P at Welter/Super welter.....

How can I say Tito hit harder? Did you ever see any of Leonard or Tito fights? Trinidad boxing ability was very limited his only weapon was his power, so how can you say that Leonard hits harder?
Leonard weapon was his speed and intelligence in the ring. On what you base your believe that Leonard hits harder than Tito?.

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 03 Feb 2006, 11:11

I am sorry, but this is perhaps my last post on this subject. An UNIDIMENSIONAL fighter like Tito COULD NEVER beat an EXTRAORDINARY fighter like Hearns. I cannot even picture a Tito victory.

Borinken25 · Post by **Borinken25** » 03 Feb 2006, 11:21

elmersalsa wrote:Tito is NOT Hearns' QUALITY.

If Tito was scared to get inside against Delahoya and Wright, what can we think of him against a TERROR LIKE HEARNS???

Tito probably would not even sign for the fight.

Another thing. Hearns if he wins by decision it would have been so LOPSIDED and probably would have won with jab alone.

I cannot see a fighter that lost to Winky, with Winky's jab alone, beat an EXTRAORDINARY FIGHTER like the Hitman... HEARNS IS One of the best fighters that I have ever seen in my life and certainly a top 50 ALL TIME great fighter by anyone standars. I cannot think of Tito as a top 50 all time great fighter, not even a top 10 all time welterweight

WHAT A MISMATCH THIS FIGHT WOULD BE.

How can you say that Tito was scare of DLH. The one who ran and show no heart on that fight was DLH. You could question Tito's ability as a boxer, but if something Tito did have was heart and anyone who question that either is completely bias or have very little knowledge of Tito.

walshb · Post by **walshb** » 03 Feb 2006, 11:34

Look mate, If Oscar could survive with ease against Tito then Hearns has nout to worry about. Oscar boxed circles around Tito for about 8rds, went on his bike for three and lost a very close decision. Oscar is not in Tommy's league, he's a fantastic Light/superlightweight but as a Welter and above Oscar wasn't that good. Tito would be beat no matter what way he fights V Tommy. He slugs and trades he Gets knocked out and he tries to box he's on a loser

Borinken25 · Post by **Borinken25** » 03 Feb 2006, 11:47

Hey damien590 you started this tread and you haven’t posted your opinion.

walshb · Post by **walshb** » 03 Feb 2006, 15:12

borinken25 wrote:
walshb wrote:As Welters go I would definitely give Leoanrd the edge as regards punching speed, accuracy and even power. Leonard competed in an era of real class and took out some stiff opposition. Leoanrd definitely had KO power and how can you say that Tito hit harder??. Tito was knockng out weaker opposition, I'm convinced of that. Put them in a fight and Ray KO's Tito. I say Leonard hit harder P4P at Welter/Super welter.....
How can I say Tito hit harder? Did you ever see any of Leonard or Tito fights? Trinidad boxing ability was very limited his only weapon was his power, so how can you say that Leonard hits harder?
Leonard weapon was his speed and intelligence in the ring. On what you base your believe that Leonard hits harder than Tito?.

I'm saying that you cannot determine which guy hit harder, you were the one who stated that Tito hit harder. I wouldn't be so sure. Ray had KO power but because he had everything else, people tend to dismiss the fact that he could knock opponents out. He in my opinion was the deadlier puncher because he hit you with greater speed, from awkward angles and in combos. I also would say that punch for punch he was equal if not a heavier puncher at Welter and above. Tito was displaying his power against weaker opposition, Ray faced and beat the best.

Borinken25 · Post by **Borinken25** » 03 Feb 2006, 15:51

walshb wrote:
borinken25 wrote:
walshb wrote:As Welters go I would definitely give Leoanrd the edge as regards punching speed, accuracy and even power. Leonard competed in an era of real class and took out some stiff opposition. Leoanrd definitely had KO power and how can you say that Tito hit harder??. Tito was knockng out weaker opposition, I'm convinced of that. Put them in a fight and Ray KO's Tito. I say Leonard hit harder P4P at Welter/Super welter.....
How can I say Tito hit harder? Did you ever see any of Leonard or Tito fights? Trinidad boxing ability was very limited his only weapon was his power, so how can you say that Leonard hits harder?
Leonard weapon was his speed and intelligence in the ring. On what you base your believe that Leonard hits harder than Tito?.
I'm saying that you cannot determine which guy hit harder, you were the one who stated that Tito hit harder. I wouldn't be so sure. Ray had KO power but because he had everything else, people tend to dismiss the fact that he could knock opponents out. He in my opinion was the deadlier puncher because he hit you with greater speed, from awkward angles and in combos. I also would say that punch for punch he was equal if not a heavier puncher at Welter and above. Tito was displaying his power against weaker opposition, Ray faced and beat the best.

Sorry to be so stubborn but, to my understanding what you are describing is that Leonard was a better fighter (faster, combos, defense, intelligent, etc…) which I do agree 100%. But there is a big difference in power and by far Tito was the better puncher. If I follow your logic then Leonard is a better puncher than let’s say Ernie Shavers because he was slow, but he is one of the most devastating punchers in boxing ever. So I can’t agree to that logic. Leonard was in different class than Tito, but Tito did something better than him and that is KO’s. Hearns is the better boxer by far, but I can’t completely ignore Trinidad’s power and I’ll always give him a punchers chance, especially with Hearns having a suspect chin.

barry · Post by **barry** » 04 Feb 2006, 00:14

>>>Look mate, If Oscar could survive with ease against Tito then Hearns has nout to worry about.<<<

And if a guy like Ernie Singletary, Luigi Minchillo, or Doug DeWitt can survive with ease against Hearns, then Trinidad would have no worry either.

walshb · Post by **walshb** » 06 Feb 2006, 04:39

Punch for punch or P4P Leonard hit harder....

barry · Post by **barry** » 06 Feb 2006, 08:17

>>>Punch for punch or P4P Leonard hit harder....<<<

Than Trinidad...I doubt it. He was certainly a better fighter, but he didn't punch harder!