Worst Managed Boxers

orbtastic
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Re: Worst Managed Boxers

Post by orbtastic »

Scypion wrote:
Counter-puncher wrote:
Scypion wrote:Roberto Duran. After his first fight with Leonard, he should have taken a couple of easy non-title fights before fighting Leonard again. His handlers must have known that he was celebrating and had gained a lot of weight. Ray Leonard's people knew. Offered big money for a quick rematch, they jumped at the offer.
.
i've seen this argument made before and i never quite thought it rang true, this 'clever Leonard suckered Duran/Duran's naive handlers into a quick rematch'

it was nearly 6 months down the line. the way you guys go on, anyone would think Roberto barely had time to finish a weekend bar crawl after the first fight before being forced back into the ring, hell he had time for a 3 month bar crawl then a 10 week traing camp and change. i don't consider nearly 6 months that quick at all, myself.

I believe that Duran would have been well advised to take a couple of easy non-title fights before fighting Leonard again. I am sure that he would have done better in the rematch if he did. Of course, 8 million dollars is not easy to turn down.

For what it is worth, here is part of an article by Pedro Fernandez, a boxing writer for Ringtalk.

UNLIKE ESPN SPECIAL, PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE HERE!

The second fight, this is the true story of the making and the ending of the "No Mas" rematch with Leonard. Michael Trainer, a Maryland attorney, was the brains behind "Sugar Ray" Leonard. Around the Leonard camp, Mike was known as Top Cat, and when he came to negotiations he was. In September 1980, Mike found out that Roberto was weighing around 215 pounds. Then he saw photographs of Duran which got him on the phone with Roberto's people. Mike then offered Roberto $8 million to fight Leonard on November 25, 1980.


I guess that Fernandez could have lied.
Doesn't Leonard say as much himself in his autobiography?

Duran's book (albeit not written by him) more or less says the same thing, as does either Kimball's. Been a whilst since I read all 3 but they are more or less in agreement.
Bodyshot3
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Re: Worst Managed Boxers

Post by Bodyshot3 »

Thinking about this thread a great deal - because it is a good one - and perhaps Lacey needs to be mentioned.

I know that many folk would contend that Lacey was 'hyped' and going to get exposed at some point...but I always thought that the decision to face Calzaghe in Manchester was like a management team unwittingly walking their fighter into the path of a fast-moving bus.

That underestimation of Joe still really intrigues me.

Was it a result of them believing JL was invincible and could stop any SMW? Or was it a case of never really doing any kind of meaningful homework on Calzaghe and arrogantly dismissing him as just another cosseted Euro champ ready for the taking?

Lacey himself looked so uncomfortable in the build-up to the fight in Manchester; the surly side of him not really disguising the fact that he was well out of his comfort zone and that Calzaghe was clearly not a lamb-to-the-slaughter.

And after that first round you could almost see Lacey and his corner looking at each other with a colective state of shock on their faces; did we really sign-up for this gig and against this guy?

Admittedly, one bad night does not necessarily equate to a badly managed career.

But Lacey pretty much got ruined that night - both in terms of being soundly beaten and his reputation/confidence also being smashed - and there was a slow, rather undignified decline into B-Side status.
ImranSarwar
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Re: Worst Managed Boxers

Post by ImranSarwar »

I have a 1-12 pro record (John Scully's third line). '88 to '92. Turned pro advanced age of 32. I'm "natural" 147lb (amateur was 156). First eight lines *sm m m sm -15 months break- jm m lh m. Boxed against pan-am silver medalist before the break; boxed against 1991 National GG champ at line-8.
Don't look at it as a mismanagement; look at it as getting exposure with good names at a point where I probably couldn't do much. [Was 0-4 in close on amateur losing to RPerez one before he upset MMoorer; BBlakeley of Mi., & RBritt (Alaska)..24(11)-15(3)-1 finish][Britt beat Nicky Walker 12r. as pro and Walker was Top-10 for some time.....] *record lists m..yet it was sm.
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Re: Worst Managed Boxers

Post by campfire »

Amir Khan
Syntax Error
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Re: Worst Managed Boxers

Post by Syntax Error »

Bodyshot3 wrote:Thinking about this thread a great deal - because it is a good one - and perhaps Lacey needs to be mentioned.

I know that many folk would contend that Lacey was 'hyped' and going to get exposed at some point...but I always thought that the decision to face Calzaghe in Manchester was like a management team unwittingly walking their fighter into the path of a fast-moving bus.

That underestimation of Joe still really intrigues me.

Was it a result of them believing JL was invincible and could stop any SMW? Or was it a case of never really doing any kind of meaningful homework on Calzaghe and arrogantly dismissing him as just another cosseted Euro champ ready for the taking?

Lacey himself looked so uncomfortable in the build-up to the fight in Manchester; the surly side of him not really disguising the fact that he was well out of his comfort zone and that Calzaghe was clearly not a lamb-to-the-slaughter.

And after that first round you could almost see Lacey and his corner looking at each other with a colective state of shock on their faces; did we really sign-up for this gig and against this guy?

Admittedly, one bad night does not necessarily equate to a badly managed career.

But Lacey pretty much got ruined that night - both in terms of being soundly beaten and his reputation/confidence also being smashed - and there was a slow, rather undignified decline into B-Side status.
Cracking post: 100% spot-on. :TU:
Truthseeker
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Re: Worst Managed Boxers

Post by Truthseeker »

Errol Christie
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Re: Worst Managed Boxers

Post by ImranSarwar »

AngryGoon38 wrote: Its funny how i see this thread coz earlier today i was thinking of making this type of thread myself. I specifically had "Gerry Cooney" in mind when i was thinking of this sort of thing in boxing,which is,as this thread is about,Boxers with alot of potential who were improperly managed.

"Gerry Cooney" most definately would be right up there at the top of the list of mismanaged boxers that could've had alot more success with proper based management. A more practical approach for Cooney would've been to wait at least a couple of years before facing the much more experienced "Larry Holmes" in 1982. If managing Cooney myself,I would've personally had Cooney fight a good 5 fights against solid fringe contenders before agreeing to fight Holmes but of course in Boxing,its often all about the money,especcially these days and even at that time the "Hurried mega money fights" were becomming very mainstream-ish with promoters and boxing managers.

Its funny how i still remember the build up to Holmes-Cooney to this day and i was only 12 years old at that time and even i had the sense of mind to realize that Cooney's management were Really Jumping The Gun thinking they were ready to face and defeat The HeavyWeight Champion "Larry Holmes". I knew Holmes too well at that time seeing his wins over Norton,Shavers(Twice),Weaver,Spinks,etc,and i knew Cooney too well also. I just could'nt understand why Cooney was being over-hyped and also obviously over-rushed into such a fight. Funny how so many at that time thought Cooney had a great chance at that time,but i just wasnt seeing it,whatever it was that was clouding people's minds back then. I Knew Cooney was really Powerfull and he had extra size but i knew he was still way too inexperienced,way too unrefined with his defensive fundementals and too flat-footed as well. Plus he needed to really work on his jab so he could really utilize his height and reach but Cooney liked to fight inside way too much,and thus basically wasting his height and reach for the most part.
Cooney at that stage. But..it's "criminal" they have him match V. Ken Norton when they did.
And, Lyle was a "shell" only. His first "big publicity" came for matching Dino Denis. I "guess" that one O.K.....but/ Vs Norton difinitly "Criminal"!
Early: Only his decision win vs "Animal" Lopez is "proud".
Cooney was most certainly "AWESOME"! But!
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Re: Worst Managed Boxers

Post by ImranSarwar »

What's the football player used to play for the Cowboys. Maybe was w/Houston too. Built "fab numbers" & lost once only. He tK0'd 2Nd that other football player? WELL...the former Dallas Cowboys boxer could of/ should of gone lot further than he did, ..I think!
sweetsci
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Re: Worst Managed Boxers

Post by sweetsci »

ImranSarwar wrote:What's the football player used to play for the Cowboys. Maybe was w/Houston too. Built "fab numbers" & lost once only. He tK0'd 2Nd that other football player? WELL...the former Dallas Cowboys boxer could of/ should of gone lot further than he did, ..I think!
Without looking, Alonzo Highsmith maybe?
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Re: Worst Managed Boxers

Post by King Carlos »

Meldrick Taylor. Just look at the run of fights they put him in post Chavez.
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Re: Worst Managed Boxers

Post by ImranSarwar »

sweetsci wrote:
ImranSarwar wrote:What's the football player used to play for the Cowboys. Maybe was w/Houston too. Built "fab numbers" & lost once only. He tK0'd 2Nd that other football player? WELL...the former Dallas Cowboys boxer could of/ should of gone lot further than he did, ..I think!
Without looking, Alonzo Highsmith maybe?
Yup! Alonzo Highsmith. Thank you Thank you sweetsci! [I can run all the H champs down, in order and his name escaped me this hour!]
&NICE STYLE YOU USE!
HyacinthusTurnipseed
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Re: Worst Managed Boxers

Post by HyacinthusTurnipseed »

King Carlos wrote:Meldrick Taylor. Just look at the run of fights they put him in post Chavez.
I was thinking the same thing for Juan Manuel Lopez. The Salido rematch was inevitable, but the last thing you'd want to do after that beating would be to put him in with an overweight Mikey Garcia. Then sleepwalking into a Ponce de Leon rematch which JML somehow comes through and wins, for which he gets rewarded with two fights for undercard money against hard-punching and hungry prospects Francisco Vargas and JMA Cuellar.
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Re: Worst Managed Boxers

Post by Flump »

AngryGoon38 wrote:
Scypion wrote:Roberto Duran. After his first fight with Leonard, he should have taken a couple of easy non-title fights before fighting Leonard again. His handlers must have known that he was celebrating and had gained a lot of weight. Ray Leonard's people knew. Offered big money for a quick rematch, they jumped at the offer.

After a good fight though losing against Marvin Hagler, he next fought Tommy Hearns, going down in weight. He should have had a couple of easier fights before trying Hearns. JMO.


Good Post ! Definately Agree Strongly ! Its funny how i see this thread coz earlier today i was thinking of making this type of thread myself. I specifically had "Gerry Cooney" in mind when i was thinking of this sort of thing in boxing,which is,as this thread is about,Boxers with alot of potential who were improperly managed.

"Gerry Cooney" most definately would be right up there at the top of the list of mismanaged boxers that could've had alot more success with proper based management. A more practical approach for Cooney would've been to wait at least a couple of years before facing the much more experienced "Larry Holmes" in 1982. If managing Cooney myself,I would've personally had Cooney fight a good 5 fights against solid fringe contenders before agreeing to fight Holmes but of course in Boxing,its often all about the money,especcially these days and even at that time the "Hurried mega money fights" were becomming very mainstream-ish with promoters and boxing managers.

Its funny how i still remember the build up to Holmes-Cooney to this day and i was only 12 years old at that time and even i had the sense of mind to realize that Cooney's management were Really Jumping The Gun thinking they were ready to face and defeat The HeavyWeight Champion "Larry Holmes". I knew Holmes too well at that time seeing his wins over Norton,Shavers(Twice),Weaver,Spinks,etc,and i knew Cooney too well also. I just could'nt understand why Cooney was being over-hyped and also obviously over-rushed into such a fight. Funny how so many at that time thought Cooney had a great chance at that time,but i just wasnt seeing it,whatever it was that was clouding people's minds back then. I Knew Cooney was really Powerfull and he had extra size but i knew he was still way too inexperienced,way too unrefined with his defensive fundementals and too flat-footed as well. Plus he needed to really work on his jab so he could really utilize his height and reach but Cooney liked to fight inside way too much,and thus basically wasting his height and reach for the most part.
I agree with you on the career front, all I would say is that he came out of the game a multi-millionaire with his marbles intact and gave one of the greatest heavyweights ever one of his hardest nights. Most of the other 80's heavyweights may have picked up a title, but there have been some very sad stories.
DrunkenBoxer
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Re: Worst Managed Boxers

Post by DrunkenBoxer »

Unfortunately, David Reid's eye caused him to retire prematurely. I don't think he was mismanaged by fighting Trinidad. He was champ and didn't duck Trinidad. I respect that.
ImranSarwar
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Re: Worst Managed Boxers

Post by ImranSarwar »

DrunkenBoxer wrote:Unfortunately, David Reid's eye caused him to retire prematurely. I don't think he was mismanaged by fighting Trinidad. He was champ and didn't duck Trinidad. I respect that.
Agree..
Davidreed
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Re: Worst Managed Boxers

Post by Davidreed »

I have fears for GGG that he had been wasted. Because he had such skills which can help to all of us by watching some fantastic boxing, but still there are fears in his opponents due to his boxing skills that they might lose against him & that why they don't face him.
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Re: Worst Managed Boxers

Post by ImranSarwar »

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I live in CT., am a CAPE COD baby but...most of my life been in CT.//did a "couple" modest-world- tours [worked for the US Sports Academy in 1. They are VERY DECENT!]///I work a "couple of jobs". Am blessed but seem "cursed", too! I have -diverse interest- and can say that I am "expert" in 2 & 1/2 FIELDS. As a boxer I'm probably a 'C rater' but....I know how this Sport IS! A 'C rater' can go FAR!
Well....ANYWAY/YOU NEVER KNOW! : ) John Wilkindorki-inski son no dorki-inski ha ha my "real (honest)" name! : ) [I go to the Jerry Quarry Foundation -letters- at times..... Jimmy Dorsey there -& fb- "pretty good" friendship-][Jim I at JQF is "retired police officer". He one time had to ARREST Oliver McCall/ "unbelievable", huh? : ) -don't even- be saying I say word here!]

Last: their are a lot of REALLY COOL GREAT CHAPS here on BoxRec [& a few "complete jokers" and some too rude!]

Alright. One last: Fb.....anyone know Lehlohonolo Stone Ledwaba? THAT GUY...one of the NICEST guys you can meet. Tell you about him here: 1) he is in SA and IS Serious boxing TRAINER. He is Ex world champ (122lb). His distinction as champion is he took it to SIX defenses (that is much better than the average).
2)I LIKE TO ADVERTISE HIM! : )
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Re: Worst Managed Boxers

Post by yancey »

Scypion wrote:Roberto Duran. After his first fight with Leonard, he should have taken a couple of easy non-title fights before fighting Leonard again. His handlers must have known that he was celebrating and had gained a lot of weight. Ray Leonard's people knew. Offered big money for a quick rematch, they jumped at the offer.

After a good fight though losing against Marvin Hagler, he next fought Tommy Hearns, going down in weight. He should have had a couple of easier fights before trying Hearns. JMO.

Agree with this.
Syntax Error
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Re: Worst Managed Boxers

Post by Syntax Error »

Scypion wrote:
Counter-puncher wrote:
Scypion wrote:Roberto Duran. After his first fight with Leonard, he should have taken a couple of easy non-title fights before fighting Leonard again. His handlers must have known that he was celebrating and had gained a lot of weight. Ray Leonard's people knew. Offered big money for a quick rematch, they jumped at the offer.
.
i've seen this argument made before and i never quite thought it rang true, this 'clever Leonard suckered Duran/Duran's naive handlers into a quick rematch'

it was nearly 6 months down the line. the way you guys go on, anyone would think Roberto barely had time to finish a weekend bar crawl after the first fight before being forced back into the ring, hell he had time for a 3 month bar crawl then a 10 week traing camp and change. i don't consider nearly 6 months that quick at all, myself.

I believe that Duran would have been well advised to take a couple of easy non-title fights before fighting Leonard again. I am sure that he would have done better in the rematch if he did. Of course, 8 million dollars is not easy to turn down.

For what it is worth, here is part of an article by Pedro Fernandez, a boxing writer for Ringtalk.

UNLIKE ESPN SPECIAL, PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE HERE!

The second fight, this is the true story of the making and the ending of the "No Mas" rematch with Leonard. Michael Trainer, a Maryland attorney, was the brains behind "Sugar Ray" Leonard. Around the Leonard camp, Mike was known as Top Cat, and when he came to negotiations he was. In September 1980, Mike found out that Roberto was weighing around 215 pounds. Then he saw photographs of Duran which got him on the phone with Roberto's people. Mike then offered Roberto $8 million to fight Leonard on November 25, 1980.


I guess that Fernandez could have lied.
Duran did the decent thing.

Why would anyone want to see him knocking over a couple of daffodils instead of fighting top quality opposition?

Leonard gets pilloried for not engaging in immediate rematches with guys he'd beaten, so why shouldn't anyone else?

Other fighters get it in the neck for not fighting the best & there are people out there who wanted to see world champion Duran engaging in some mismatches? :o

Duran is responsible for what he put into his gob in between fights & as a professional boxer, he should have been disciplined enough to stay fit & if this was a contributing factor in why he didn't hit the same heights in the rematch, that is entirely his own fault & nothing to do with bad management.
man
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Re: Worst Managed Boxers

Post by man »

Counter-puncher wrote:
Scypion wrote:Roberto Duran. After his first fight with Leonard, he should have taken a couple of easy non-title fights before fighting Leonard again. His handlers must have known that he was celebrating and had gained a lot of weight. Ray Leonard's people knew. Offered big money for a quick rematch, they jumped at the offer.
.
i've seen this argument made before and i never quite thought it rang true, this 'clever Leonard suckered Duran/Duran's naive handlers into a quick rematch'
that's what leonard said himself.
HomicideHenry
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Re: Worst Managed Boxers

Post by HomicideHenry »

Me :lol: ....... then again I know literally dozens and dozens of men and women currently (or retired not long ago) who were in same position as myself (told one thing when it was really another) and get ultimately destroyed inside the first round. In my experience I was told the man I would be fighting was "smaller than me" and "had a few losses in the amateurs", there was no other information given. Well, he certainly wasn't smaller than me (first off) as he rehydrated to 195 pounds and I was 154 pounds (he was 168 on the scales, I was 158), and he had four losses in the amateurs.... but he also had 130 amateur fights :lol: with a silver medal in the Pan Am Games and multiple national titles.

I'll never forget the weigh in and proceding physical and meeting with the commission board (all happened at the same time) and the man asked me straight out "Have you had any amateur fights?" and I said no. He paused, sighed, shook his head, and signed his name to the papers anyways. After losing that fight, I expected a 30 day suspension..... I was quite shocked to see it was a suspension for 6 months.... and the only explaination I could wrap my mind around, was that it was to keep me out of the way because they know they did wrong, something borderline illegal.

Then again "on paper" it was 0-0 versus 1-0 and that trumps everything else.
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Re: Worst Managed Boxers

Post by ImranSarwar »

"Reading the History books" (Good stuff!) Vs. Keeping your personal Journal (much greater a engagement)
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Re: Worst Managed Boxers

Post by PredatorHayds »

HyacinthusTurnipseed wrote:
King Carlos wrote:Meldrick Taylor. Just look at the run of fights they put him in post Chavez.
I was thinking the same thing for Juan Manuel Lopez. The Salido rematch was inevitable, but the last thing you'd want to do after that beating would be to put him in with an overweight Mikey Garcia. Then sleepwalking into a Ponce de Leon rematch which JML somehow comes through and wins, for which he gets rewarded with two fights for undercard money against hard-punching and hungry prospects Francisco Vargas and JMA Cuellar.
Add in the fact they didn't cash in on a Gamboa fight when it was one of the biggest fights in boxing.

JML great shout :TU:
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Re: Worst Managed Boxers

Post by Keko »

Duane Bobick or Manuel Urtain!
Ambling Alp II
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Re: Worst Managed Boxers

Post by Ambling Alp II »

Some were mismanaged becasue they were thrown to the wolves too early. This almost never happens anymore.

Some guys showed ability and then just sort of disappeared. Larry Donald looked decent against Bowe, and then he spent the never several years fighting nobodies and putting on weight. Tony Tucker showed some ability against Tyson and then fought nobodies for several years.

You have to wonder if their management teams dropped the ball.
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