Is Andre Ward overrated ??

[BAD INTENTIONS]

p4p takes into account how you beat someone.

Shutting out Kessler after he took four from Joe, is impressive.
Shutting out Froch, but Froch gives everyone else hell, is impressive.

Not really losing a round in a while, impressive.

This place has gone backwards, a bunch of comments claiming Khan is great and bunch saying Ward isn't really that good.

[ikorolev]

Hard to say a guy is overrated when nobody has beaten him, or even come close. How do we know he ISN"T great?

He fights in kind of an ugly style that does come very close to flouting the rules in some respects, but the guy does so with remarkable acumen. He is hardly the first guy to use a combination of hand speed, angles, clinching, and his head, but most others before him were significantly easier to beat it would seem, that has to count for something.

Good post. I would add that Ward had only TWO notable wins, Kessler and Froch. Kessler win wasn't impressive, as it was achieved with way too much of dirty tricks including clearly intentional headbutts. Ward just hasn't achieved enough to competently rate him, and an eye test doesn't help either due to how dirty he fights.

[baron_otto]

I don't think he's overrated. He's always found a way to win, even though it isn't pretty. Plus he's beaten a couple of very good fighters in Froch and Kessler.

What Ward is, however, is far too inactive. If he started fighting fairly regularly to make up for the lost time (and against good opponents) we'd see how good he really is; whether that proves me wrong or not.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

- The Ward of Oakland didn't shut out Froch and was hanging on for his life the last round.

Needed billy goat butts and hitting on the break and his Oakland ref for Kessler. Turn down huge money for Froch re match in England.

Step away from the bag of glue and grab a clue, a poser for yummies to oogle over.

[SFW]

Lol hanging on for dear life, that's a stretch even in fantasy land. Cold hard reality is Froch got bullied, beat up, made to look stupid slow and desperate. He deserved maybe three rounds, two of which when the result was all but decided. Lost 8-9 rounds to a one handed supposedly chinny light hitter. Quite a lot of credit for the career 2nd best super middleweight, he is probably thankful Ward didn't beat the shit outta him again.

[lefty]

I'm English and a Froch fan but Ward is definietly not overrated IMO. Whether he can have success at 175 in the same way is a different matter though.

[Larrylefthook]

It depends who you listen to as some people say he's P4P top 2 and some don't think he should be in the top 10. I think it is somewhere in the middle right now.

Undoubtedly he has had a very good career so far and the next 2/3 years will define how great he will or will not become.

[greg]

...it's normal, you worked hard for your reputation and now your reputation has been working for you...of course he's lost the momentum, but still is the man to beat...

[TBEwasLangford]

Not sure how a man who won a Olympic Gold medal and hasn't lost an amateur or pro fight since his early teens be considered overrated? Whilst the calibre of his opposition hasn't been of vastly high standard he has handled top ranked guys like Dawson, Froch, Abraham with relative ease and only ever really been in trouble once when Boone decked him momentarily.

Whether he is an ATG remains to be seen, and he's got a long way to go starting with tough contest against Barrera (assuming it happens), but certainly done nothing wrong to suggest he is overrated.

My gripe with him is his overflated view of himself from a commercial standpoint. He's not the most attractive boxer to watch, rarely fights outside Oakland and certainly not PPV by himself. Priced himself out of a rematch with Froch in the UK and apparently stalling on negotiations with Barrera which should be a relatively easy fight to make given it's just on standard HBO. He just needs to get on with things.

[Tanzio]

Not sure how a man who won a Olympic Gold medal and hasn't lost an amateur or pro fight since his early teens be considered overrated? Whilst the calibre of his opposition hasn't been of vastly high standard he has handled top ranked guys like Dawson, Froch, Abraham with relative ease and only ever really been in trouble once when Boone decked him momentarily.

Whether he is an ATG remains to be seen, and he's got a long way to go starting with tough contest against Barrera (assuming it happens), but certainly done nothing wrong to suggest he is overrated.

My gripe with him is his overflated view of himself from a commercial standpoint. He's not the most attractive boxer to watch, rarely fights outside Oakland and certainly not PPV by himself. Priced himself out of a rematch with Froch in the UK and apparently stalling on negotiations with Barrera which should be a relatively easy fight to make given it's just on standard HBO. He just needs to get on with things.

Excellent summation.

[jockpunk]

Not sure how a man who won a Olympic Gold medal and hasn't lost an amateur or pro fight since his early teens be considered overrated? Whilst the calibre of his opposition hasn't been of vastly high standard he has handled top ranked guys like Dawson, Froch, Abraham with relative ease and only ever really been in trouble once when Boone decked him momentarily.

Whether he is an ATG remains to be seen, and he's got a long way to go starting with tough contest against Barrera (assuming it happens), but certainly done nothing wrong to suggest he is overrated.

My gripe with him is his overflated view of himself from a commercial standpoint. He's not the most attractive boxer to watch, rarely fights outside Oakland and certainly not PPV by himself. Priced himself out of a rematch with Froch in the UK and apparently stalling on negotiations with Barrera which should be a relatively easy fight to make given it's just on standard HBO. He just needs to get on with things.

Excellent summation.

Sums it up perfectly. He is a great fighter who isn't all that exciting that has an extremely overinflated view of himself. He is one of my least favorite fighters but anyone that doesn't have him near the top of the p4p lists is a fool.

[Deadendgeneration]

Impossible to say. Before his hiatus and recent piss poor opposition he was right near the top of the p4p list. Right now he's very difficult to place as we don't know if his skills have deteriorated at all during that time. Hell he might be more skilled than he was a few years ago but given his recent opposition it's hard to know.

[crusader]

Not sure how a man who won a Olympic Gold medal and hasn't lost an amateur or pro fight since his early teens be considered overrated?

Do you think someone would be overrating him if they claimed he was the best fighter ever, at any weight, by a huge distance? Someone can be very accomplished but still overrated.....I don't know why so many struggle to grasp that.

[TBEwasLangford]

Not sure how a man who won a Olympic Gold medal and hasn't lost an amateur or pro fight since his early teens be considered overrated?

Do you think someone would be overrating him if they claimed he was the best fighter ever, at any weight, by a huge distance? Someone can be very accomplished but still overrated.....I don't know why so many struggle to grasp that.

It's all within context. The author is specifically talking about Ward, who many feels is high in the current P4P rankings. Not aware of anyone who claims he is the best ever, as mentioned in my post I specifically stated he is yet to be proven as an ATG.

[baron_otto]

TBH I don't see many (any?) calling ward the best there has ever been. Just a very good fighter. In my view that doesn't make him overrated.

I know there was some discussion about where he was P4P when Mayweather was fighting but he wasn't rated at the top of the list. Generally second or third. Again that was probaby fair. Of course, a straw man argument can be conjured up to make him overrated - like saying he's so good he could fight three Kovalev, Stephenson and GGG at the same time but still win.

[Deadendgeneration]

TBH I don't see many (any?) calling ward the best there has ever been. Just a very good fighter. In my view that doesn't make him overrated.

I know there was some discussion about where he was P4P when Mayweather was fighting but he wasn't rated at the top of the list. Generally second or third. Again that was probaby fair. Of course, a straw man argument can be conjured up to make him overrated - like saying he's so good he could fight three Kovalev, Stephenson and GGG at the same time but still win.

I think the point is some will have it a p4p number one. His ability prior to his layoff reflected such a ranking but his opposition over the past 3-4 years and so our ability to fairly judge that ability hasn't reflected such a high ranking.

[crusader]

Not sure how a man who won a Olympic Gold medal and hasn't lost an amateur or pro fight since his early teens be considered overrated?

Do you think someone would be overrating him if they claimed he was the best fighter ever, at any weight, by a huge distance? Someone can be very accomplished but still overrated.....I don't know why so many struggle to grasp that.

It's all within context. The author is specifically talking about Ward, who many feels is high in the current P4P rankings. Not aware of anyone who claims he is the best ever, as mentioned in my post I specifically stated he is yet to be proven as an ATG.

Gotcha...so then you can see how an Olympic champion who hasn't lost in several years can be overrated.

TBH I don't see many (any?) calling ward the best there has ever been. Just a very good fighter. In my view that doesn't make him overrated.

I know there was some discussion about where he was P4P when Mayweather was fighting but he wasn't rated at the top of the list. Generally second or third. Again that was probaby fair. Of course, a straw man argument can be conjured up to make him overrated - like saying he's so good he could fight three Kovalev, Stephenson and GGG at the same time but still win.

I don't recall anyone saying that he was the best ever either. If you think I suggested that people have (maybe you don't) then you missed the point of my post.

Overall, I don't think that Ward is overrated. It seems to me like he's generally acknowledged as being a standout talent as reflected through his SS wins, but there are questions about the effects of the inactivity and how he fares against elite opponents at a higher weight. At the extremes I've probably noticed more people who obviously underrate him than people who make over the top claims about how great he is.

[ikorolev]

Not sure how a man who won a Olympic Gold medal and hasn't lost an amateur or pro fight since his early teens be considered overrated?

He did lose the Olympic semi-final. Watch that fight and see for yourself.

[roundOs_oficial]

I think... We might give him a chance, since He got back, He needs to get back on track with couple fights and then We could all judge objetively.

Peace Out !

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[Tanzio]

- The Ward of Oakland didn't shut out Froch and was hanging on for his life the last round.

Needed billy goat butts and hitting on the break and his Oakland ref for Kessler. Turn down huge money for Froch re match in England.

Step away from the bag of glue and grab a clue, a poser for yummies to oogle over.

Froch is one of my favorite fighters and there are no excuses for SOGgy's behavior but your view of Froch v SOGgy is deluded. Carl had no answers beyond damaging SOGgy's hands with his face.

[Freedom2013]

Not sure how a man who won a Olympic Gold medal and hasn't lost an amateur or pro fight since his early teens be considered overrated?

That's a myth. He had several official losses in the amateurs, against rather poor opponents.

As an amateur, Ward fought low-level opposition except for the 2004 Olympics.

He was lucky to be permitted to skip the opening round, and he needed a robbery over Haydarov to win the 2004 semi-finals. He didn't really earn the gold medal.

To win against decent opposition, Ward RELIES HEAVILY on illegal tactics and crooked home refs who permit it.

With a fair and honest referee to stop him from using illegal tactics (clamping his opponents' arms, hitting off the break, hitting while holding, head-butting) Ward would LOSE to many at 168 and 175.

And he refuses to do random PED testing for some reason.

[ElJefe]

No. You can pick apart the resume of literally any active fighter and make it look bad. What's the point?

[ikorolev]

No. You can pick apart the resume of literally any active fighter and make it look bad. What's the point?

But it is much easier to pick apart inactive fighter like Ward.

[jamesmcdonnell]

- The Ward of Oakland didn't shut out Froch and was hanging on for his life the last round.

Needed billy goat butts and hitting on the break and his Oakland ref for Kessler. Turn down huge money for Froch re match in England.

Step away from the bag of glue and grab a clue, a poser for yummies to oogle over.

Froch is one of my favorite fighters and there are no excuses for SOGgy's behavior but your view of Froch v SOGgy is deluded. Carl had no answers beyond damaging SOGgy's hands with his face.

Froch was my favourite fighter of recent years. Ward beat him with ease, shutting down his offence, and totally handling him on the inside. It was a very impressive performance, against a rock hard competitor.

[SenorPipino]

I'm certain our regular readers realize that ikovey's opinion on this topic is nothing but insecure ballshoi.

We know he's constantly terrified that Ward will some day toy and destroy both Golovkin and Kovalev, and end his dreams of a new Russian Revolution.

It looks like Kovalev will be the first to drown when he takes on the ultra-slick Ward come the fall.