Who would have won these matchups:
Max Baer vs Ingemar Johansson
Max Schmeling vs Tommy Burns
Michael Moorer vs Hasim Rahman
James Corbett vs Jimmy Ellis
Bob Fitzsimmons vs Ernie Terrell
Jack Sharkey vs Ray Mercer
Michael Spinks vs Vitaly Klitschko
Eddie Machen vs Ken Norton
Who would have won between...
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dempseyfire
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 5534
- Joined: 29 Oct 2003, 22:56
Max Baer vs Ingemar Johansson - Baer by KO-better chin, less one dimensional
Max Schmeling vs Tommy Burns -Schmeling by decision. Better boxer and hit just as hard
Michael Moorer vs Hasim Rahman-Moorer by KO 7
James Corbett vs Jimmy Ellis -??? can't really gauge Corbett fairly with what we have
Bob Fitzsimmons vs Ernie Terrell-ditto with fitz
Jack Sharkey vs Ray Mercer -Sharkey by decision-much better stamina and better skilled, smarter fighter with a big speed advantage
Michael Spinks vs Vitaly Klitschko -Klitschko by a close decision
Eddie Machen vs Ken Norton -Interesting, both fighters are under-rated, but I like the more powerful Norton by decision.
Max Schmeling vs Tommy Burns -Schmeling by decision. Better boxer and hit just as hard
Michael Moorer vs Hasim Rahman-Moorer by KO 7
James Corbett vs Jimmy Ellis -??? can't really gauge Corbett fairly with what we have
Bob Fitzsimmons vs Ernie Terrell-ditto with fitz
Jack Sharkey vs Ray Mercer -Sharkey by decision-much better stamina and better skilled, smarter fighter with a big speed advantage
Michael Spinks vs Vitaly Klitschko -Klitschko by a close decision
Eddie Machen vs Ken Norton -Interesting, both fighters are under-rated, but I like the more powerful Norton by decision.
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4900
- Joined: 29 May 2005, 00:32
Re: Who would have won between...
Ambling Alp wrote:Who would have won these matchups:
Max Baer vs Ingemar Johansson
Max Schmeling vs Tommy Burns
Michael Moorer vs Hasim Rahman
James Corbett vs Jimmy Ellis
Bob Fitzsimmons vs Ernie Terrell
Jack Sharkey vs Ray Mercer
Michael Spinks vs Vitaly Klitschko
Eddie Machen vs Ken Norton
good fights alp!
Baer KO 6 INGO
Schmeling TKO 9 Burns
Moorer 15 unanimous Rahman
Sharkey 15 unanimous mercer
Spinx 15 split vitali
Norton 15 unanimous machen
corbett vs ellis- i agree with dempseyfire
Re: Who would have won between...
Bear wins TKO 5.Ambling Alp wrote:Max Baer vs Ingemar Johansson
Norton wins PTS15Ambling Alp wrote:Eddie Machen vs Ken Norton
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dr_devious
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 5346
- Joined: 29 Dec 2005, 09:19
Re: Who would have won between...
Max Bear, Max Schmeling, Hasim Rahman, James Corbett, Bob Fitz, Jack Sharkey, Vitali Klitschko, Kenny Norton.Ambling Alp wrote:Who would have won these matchups:
Max Baer vs Ingemar Johansson
Max Schmeling vs Tommy Burns
Michael Moorer vs Hasim Rahman
James Corbett vs Jimmy Ellis
Bob Fitzsimmons vs Ernie Terrell
Jack Sharkey vs Ray Mercer
Michael Spinks vs Vitaly Klitschko
Eddie Machen vs Ken Norton
I only pick Corbett and Fitz from an "era for era" perspective, as ive argued in previous sports. If were comparing as they were i.e. 19th Century Corbett and Fitz against 20th Century Ellis and Terrell id pick the other way
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tiredoldngrey
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 442
- Joined: 23 May 2005, 12:36
re
Max Baer vs Ingemar Johansson------Baer KO
Max Schmeling vs Tommy Burns------Burns PTS
Michael Moorer vs Hasim Rahman-----Moorer PTS
James Corbett vs Jimmy Ellis----------DRAW
Bob Fitzsimmons vs Ernie Terrell------Fitzsimmons KO
Jack Sharkey vs Ray Mercer-----------Sharkey PTS
Michael Spinks vs Vitaly Klitschko-----Spinks PTS
Eddie Machen vs Ken Norton-----------Norton PTS
Max Schmeling vs Tommy Burns------Burns PTS
Michael Moorer vs Hasim Rahman-----Moorer PTS
James Corbett vs Jimmy Ellis----------DRAW
Bob Fitzsimmons vs Ernie Terrell------Fitzsimmons KO
Jack Sharkey vs Ray Mercer-----------Sharkey PTS
Michael Spinks vs Vitaly Klitschko-----Spinks PTS
Eddie Machen vs Ken Norton-----------Norton PTS
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4900
- Joined: 29 May 2005, 00:32
Max Schmeling vs Tommy Burns------Burns PTS
really barry? i always thought of schmeling as a great boxer-puncher who was one of the more underated heavys of all time. i felt schmeling had the counterpunching skills and boxing skills to outbox u and the power to knock u out. schmeling was a great fighter. I dont think tommy is more skilled than max, and I think max is more powerful than tommy. tommy is a great fighter, i have his vicious KO of bill squires. but i cant see how he will be able to beat max.
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Ambling Alp
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 3627
- Joined: 15 Jul 2005, 22:31
Not alot of props for Ingo here!
I guess I will pick Baer by ko as well. Although I think Johansson would have a serious chance.
Schmeling ko Burns
Rahman ko Moorer (Moorer chin would probably let him down)
Gentleman Jim by close decision over Ellis
Fitz by late ko over Terrell
Mercer by decison over Sharkey (I know everyone is thinking Jessie Ferguson, but Sharkey had some bad performances too)
Spinks by decision over Vitaly Klitschko
Norton decision over Machen
I'm a little surprised that everyone is picking Norton, given that he gets a lot of criticism by some people here.
I guess I will pick Baer by ko as well. Although I think Johansson would have a serious chance.
Schmeling ko Burns
Rahman ko Moorer (Moorer chin would probably let him down)
Gentleman Jim by close decision over Ellis
Fitz by late ko over Terrell
Mercer by decison over Sharkey (I know everyone is thinking Jessie Ferguson, but Sharkey had some bad performances too)
Spinks by decision over Vitaly Klitschko
Norton decision over Machen
I'm a little surprised that everyone is picking Norton, given that he gets a lot of criticism by some people here.
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4900
- Joined: 29 May 2005, 00:32
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Ambling Alp
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 3627
- Joined: 15 Jul 2005, 22:31
Brockton,
I knew that you would disagree with that opinion, but I didn't think it would be so fast!!
Let me explain my reasoning.
Sharkey did beat Godfrey and other good fighters and Mercer certainly had some bad performances.
However, Sharkey also had some bad performances. For example, he had draws with Mickey Walker and Tom Heeney. He lost to King Levinsky and of course Primo Carnera
(If he would have beaten Heeney, he probably would have gotten a title shot against Tunney.) If he fought like that against Mercer, he would have lost, assuming Mercer didn't have a listless performance himself.
If Mercer fought like he did against Lewis and Holyfield, he would have beaten Sharkey.
I know that you can turn the tables in this arguement and point out Mercers bad performances. I would argue that Sharkey had just as many if not more bad performances than Mercer.
Sharkey's career record was just 38-13-3. He was beatable.
Sure Sharkey could outbox Mercer like an ancient Larry Holmes did. Or Mercer could put in a listless performance and Sharkey wouldn't even have to be that great.
However, if Mercer really came to fight, he would beat Sharkey. If Mercer put in an ok performance, he could still win if Sharkey was off.
Both guys were inconsistent. There is no way that Sharkey would ko Mercer, but Mercer could concieveably ko Sharkey. I really believe Mercer could win 6 out of 10 times.
I don't feel nearly as strongly about this fight as Mercer-Moore , however I do think that it's a fight that people should actually think about and not just dismiss it.
We did agree on most of these fights.
I knew that you would disagree with that opinion, but I didn't think it would be so fast!!
Let me explain my reasoning.
Sharkey did beat Godfrey and other good fighters and Mercer certainly had some bad performances.
However, Sharkey also had some bad performances. For example, he had draws with Mickey Walker and Tom Heeney. He lost to King Levinsky and of course Primo Carnera
(If he would have beaten Heeney, he probably would have gotten a title shot against Tunney.) If he fought like that against Mercer, he would have lost, assuming Mercer didn't have a listless performance himself.If Mercer fought like he did against Lewis and Holyfield, he would have beaten Sharkey.
I know that you can turn the tables in this arguement and point out Mercers bad performances. I would argue that Sharkey had just as many if not more bad performances than Mercer.
Sharkey's career record was just 38-13-3. He was beatable.
Sure Sharkey could outbox Mercer like an ancient Larry Holmes did. Or Mercer could put in a listless performance and Sharkey wouldn't even have to be that great.
However, if Mercer really came to fight, he would beat Sharkey. If Mercer put in an ok performance, he could still win if Sharkey was off.
Both guys were inconsistent. There is no way that Sharkey would ko Mercer, but Mercer could concieveably ko Sharkey. I really believe Mercer could win 6 out of 10 times.
I don't feel nearly as strongly about this fight as Mercer-Moore
, however I do think that it's a fight that people should actually think about and not just dismiss it. We did agree on most of these fights.
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4900
- Joined: 29 May 2005, 00:32
ya
I think sharkey on his best day beats mercer on his best day. mercer cuaght lewis off gaurd in lennox's worst preformance of his career. but when jack sharkey was on, he was tough to beat. there wasnt much he couldnt do. he had fast handspeed, very good boxing skills, power, and solid defense.
sharkey was going to get a title shot vs tunney, but dempsey cheated and snuck one on sharkey. if sharkey had played his cards right, he would have outpointed the faded dempsey.
other than holyfield(where he still lost clearly) and lewis fights, when did mercer have an on night? i mean its not like mercer was fighting alot on a consistent basis like sharkey was so its more likely for sharkey to have an off night.
I think sharkey was in a different class than mercer. sharkey beat great fighters, who did mercer beat?
- o and i still think archie had too much boxing skill and ring smarts for mercer
I think sharkey on his best day beats mercer on his best day. mercer cuaght lewis off gaurd in lennox's worst preformance of his career. but when jack sharkey was on, he was tough to beat. there wasnt much he couldnt do. he had fast handspeed, very good boxing skills, power, and solid defense.
sharkey was going to get a title shot vs tunney, but dempsey cheated and snuck one on sharkey. if sharkey had played his cards right, he would have outpointed the faded dempsey.
other than holyfield(where he still lost clearly) and lewis fights, when did mercer have an on night? i mean its not like mercer was fighting alot on a consistent basis like sharkey was so its more likely for sharkey to have an off night.
I think sharkey was in a different class than mercer. sharkey beat great fighters, who did mercer beat?
- o and i still think archie had too much boxing skill and ring smarts for mercer
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Ambling Alp
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 3627
- Joined: 15 Jul 2005, 22:31
What, you mean Bert Cooper doesn't count as a great fighter?
I really don't think that Lewis was that much under his usual performance against Mercer. He was certainly better in that fight than he was in the first Rahman fight or the Klitscko fight.
The Lewis-Mercer fight really should have been atleast a draw and probably a win for Mercer. Though I suppose if Mercer would have gotten the decison it probably would have hurt Lewis' career more than it would have helped Mercer's. Still, people would rate Mercer higher than they do now.
As for the Holyfield fight, even though he lost I thought he fought a helluva fight.
It's funny about Sharkey. You used to never hear people talk much about him, until say the early 1990's. He was always considered just a little better than the "bad" champions, like Hart, Willard, Carnera, Braddock. He was probably a little underrated. Now it seems that people talk about him more and he is getting his due. (I didn't mean to sound as if I was ripping him before. He was obviously a very good fighter).
I really don't think that Lewis was that much under his usual performance against Mercer. He was certainly better in that fight than he was in the first Rahman fight or the Klitscko fight.
The Lewis-Mercer fight really should have been atleast a draw and probably a win for Mercer. Though I suppose if Mercer would have gotten the decison it probably would have hurt Lewis' career more than it would have helped Mercer's. Still, people would rate Mercer higher than they do now.
As for the Holyfield fight, even though he lost I thought he fought a helluva fight.
It's funny about Sharkey. You used to never hear people talk much about him, until say the early 1990's. He was always considered just a little better than the "bad" champions, like Hart, Willard, Carnera, Braddock. He was probably a little underrated. Now it seems that people talk about him more and he is getting his due. (I didn't mean to sound as if I was ripping him before. He was obviously a very good fighter).
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4900
- Joined: 29 May 2005, 00:32
when people do top 10 worst heavyweight champs, i see sharkeys name get mentioned and it pisses me off because they base it totally on the carnera rematch which is highly questionable!
but sharkey was a helluva lot better than that! i rate jack sharkey in my top 25 heavyweights and i dont have a problem with people rating him in there top 20
but sharkey was a helluva lot better than that! i rate jack sharkey in my top 25 heavyweights and i dont have a problem with people rating him in there top 20
Max Baer vs Ingemar Johansson- Johansson ko 7
Max Schmeling vs Tommy Burns- Schmeling anyway he wants to.
Michael Moorer vs Hasim Rahman-Moorer UD 12.
James Corbett vs Jimmy Ellis- Ellis easy decison or mid rounds ko.
Bob Fitzsimmons vs Ernie Terrell- Terrell early ko.
Jack Sharkey vs Ray Mercer- Sharkey UD 15.
Michael Spinks vs Vitaly Klitschko-Spinks SD 12.
Eddie Machen vs Ken Norton-Norton UD 15.
Max Schmeling vs Tommy Burns- Schmeling anyway he wants to.
Michael Moorer vs Hasim Rahman-Moorer UD 12.
James Corbett vs Jimmy Ellis- Ellis easy decison or mid rounds ko.
Bob Fitzsimmons vs Ernie Terrell- Terrell early ko.
Jack Sharkey vs Ray Mercer- Sharkey UD 15.
Michael Spinks vs Vitaly Klitschko-Spinks SD 12.
Eddie Machen vs Ken Norton-Norton UD 15.