Biggest domestic opponent duckers?

[freddydoesdallas]

Good boxer Mitchell, felt sorry for him when Linares stopped him. That being said it has amazed me over last few days when I've read articles saying he's one of the top 10 british boxers never to win world title...absurd. Decent European level but that's it. At his weight alone Dave Charnley would have stopped him. Even more recently I think Charlie Nash and Michael Ayers would have probably beaten him.

Yep, ridiculous really. In an era of ever growing 'world' titles, he still did not have the ability to pick one up.

I enjoyed his career but know his level and that level was not world class.

[taffytoon]

Lol

it amazes me that people bite and rise to these posts.

Agreed; the DONKEY is banging one out at the replies he is getting. The guy is an absolute BELL END

[Horse]

Yeh lets turn this into a more positive thread, horse seems like a very negative poster I mean why HATE boxers?

If a boxer avoids good fights then I think that it should be pointed out.

Nick Blackwell is only 25 but he has fought Martin Murray, BJS, John Ryder and soon Eubank Jr. That's a hell of a lot of good names for someone so young.

Nick Blackwell: Martin Murray, Martin Concepcion, Billy Joe Saunders, Max Maxwell, Terry Carruthers, Nathan King, John Ryder, Damon Jones & Jack Arnfield.

[whiskey]

Amir Khan's run at lightweight was full of ducks and I don't think he ever wanted to fight a genuine British threat.

I think at one stage he was called up for purse bids against Jon Thaxton for the British and withdrew to fight some johnny foreigner. Then John Murray was trying to fight him and I recall Khan putting out a press release saying he "toyed with him" in sparring and then had to apologise and state they'd never actually done any sparring.

That trend has continued his whole career. He's just taken a more dangerous fight for less money at a weight he's never boxed at than go for the world title and a huge British fight that pays pound notes and not dollars (and likely more of them too).

He's had a peculiar career - dropped and banged-out by nobodies then beating genuine world class opponents.

[bigjack]

Frank Bruno fought very few british opponents.

[TBEwasLangford]

Frank Bruno fought very few british opponents.

Would have liked to see him cross paths with Gary Mason, would have been a good fight. Apparently they sparred a lot, not sure who's fault, if any, that it didn't happen. I suppose Bruno took extended break after first Tyson fight which was the time Mason was coming to prominence. When Bruno cameback Mason has just been bashed up by Lewis and retired.

[Datsue]

Yep, ridiculous really. In an era of ever growing 'world' titles, he still did not have the ability to pick one up.

I enjoyed his career but know his level and that level was not world class.

Whilst I concur with the general sentiment--Charnely for one would've thrashed him, & I wouldn't make him too much of a favourite over, say, Billy Schwer on his day--Mitchell never got to fight the likes of Tony Luis or Darleys Perez for a world title.

Linares, Burns, Katsidis, are all several levels above anyone Crolla or Mathews has ever beaten, imo, & all genuinely world class at the time (not saying they were the absolute best in the world, but they mixed in that company. Something that Crolla or Mathew's opponents never have).

[Horse]

Matthew Hatton was the biggest DOD I ever saw. Kevin Anderson, McIntyre, Kell Brook and any of the names that were circling the top of the domestic scene for about 8 years.
The only one that he ended up in a ring with beat him by landslide by about 10 rounds, and that was Craig Watson.
It was all IBO belts and the odd shot at a linear champion such as Alvarez .

Matthew Hatton:

Didn't fight: Junior Witter, Frankie Gavin, Michael Jennings, David Barnes, Kevin McIntyre, Kevin Anderson, Eamonn Magee, Denton Vassell, Curtis Woodhouse, Young Mutley, Colin Lynes, Barrie Jones, Mehrdud Takaloo, Dave Ryan, Bradley Pryce, Neil Sinclair, Jimmy Vincent, David Walker, Stuart Elwell & Jason Welborn.

Fought: Marcus Portman, Taz Jones, Francis Jones, Alan Bosworth, Craig Watson, Scott Woolford, Ted Bami, Kell Brook & Michael Lomax.


Yeah, Matthew Hatton missed out on some good domestic fights, but I'd say he did better than Kevin Mitchell.

It has to be considered that Matthew Hatton was a pretty low level fighter for the first 8 years or so of his career (losing to multiple domestic journeymen). It was only after his wide points loss to Watson when he went on a good run and had success at a decent level for the last 5 years of his career.

It was only in the last few years of his career when fighting other good domestic opponents made much sense and a lot of those opponents I wrote up there weren't available at that time. Also most of the missed fights for Hatton were a lot less appealing than the ones that Mitchell missed out on.

[Horse]

Martin Murray's record is rather lacking in domestic action, probably not through any particular fault of his own.

Martin Murray:

Didn't fight: Matthew Macklin, Darren Barker, Andy Lee, Billy Joe Saunders, Chris Eubank Jr, Kerry Hope, James DeGale, George Groves, Callum Smith, Paul Smith, Rocky Fielding, Luke Blackledge, Frank Buglioni, Lee Markham, Jamie Cox, Steven Bendall, John Ryder, Eamonn O'Kane, Craig McEwan, John Duddy, Paul Samuels, Tom Doran & Martin Concepcion.

Fought: Danny Butler, Cello Renda & Nick Blackwell.


If Murray continues to not fight his domestic rivals then he will be a worse domestic ducker than Mitchell.

I believe that he will fight some of his better domestic rivals before he retires though.

[Larrylefthook]

Martin Murray's record is rather lacking in domestic action, probably not through any particular fault of his own.

Martin Murray:

Didn't fight: Matthew Macklin, Darren Barker, Andy Lee, Billy Joe Saunders, Chris Eubank Jr, Kerry Hope, James DeGale, George Groves, Callum Smith, Paul Smith, Rocky Fielding, Luke Blackledge, Frank Buglioni, Lee Markham, Jamie Cox, Steven Bendall, John Ryder, Eamonn O'Kane, Craig McEwan, John Duddy, Paul Samuels, Tom Doran & Martin Concepcion.

Fought: Danny Butler, Cello Renda & Nick Blackwell.


If Murray continues to not fight his domestic rivals then he will be a worse domestic ducker than Mitchell.

I believe that he will fight some of his better domestic rivals before he retires though.

Would you say Darren Barker is just as bad? I cant think of many domestic rivals he fought besides Kerry Hope, I'm sure he said on the gloves are off middleweight special that he would fight one of the others if he won a world title but he chose Sturm instead. Obviously a really nice guy though.

[davie]

I can see where Horse is coming from, his record is absolute stacked with foreign guys, many of whom I've never heard of.
At the time he was fighting those guys he could have been facing similarly talented and/or ranked fighters from these shores, I certainly think people would have taken more of an interest in his career at the time and he might be more highly thought of now.

But the simple fact is Kevin is and always was just short of world class but managed to position himself in to high ranking positions and was able to fight for 3 world titles. That has to be considered punching above his weight, as was evident in the outcome of those 3 world title challenges
It's hard to pick holes in the standard of someones opposition when they've managed to fight themselves into such a postition.

I would like Mitchell to have faced more domestic foes,
but he won't look back on a career on the fringes of world class with too much regret

[Horse]

Would you say Darren Barker is just as bad? I cant think of many domestic rivals he fought besides Kerry Hope, I'm sure he said on the gloves are off middleweight special that he would fight one of the others if he won a world title but he chose Sturm instead. Obviously a really nice guy though.

Darren Barker:

Fought: Danny Thornton, Paul Samuels, Steven Bendall, Jason McKay, Darren McDermott, Danny Butler & Kerry Hope.

Didn't fight: Matthew Macklin, Martin Murray, Andy Lee, Billy Joe Saunders, Paul Smith, Howard Eastman, Wayne Elcock, John Ryder, Eamonn O'Kane, Craig McEwan, John Duddy, Bradley Pryce, Matthew Hall, Scott Dann, Tom Doran & Martin Concepcion.

I'd say Barker was less bad than Murray (so far), especially considering that two of those domestic fights for Murray were just 3 round Prizefighter bouts. The only decent domestic opponent that Murray has fought over 4+ rounds is Blackwell. Murray also beat decent journeyman Lee Noble, but that doesn't greatly boost his domestic opponent beating achievements.


Is Barker a bigger domestic rival ducker than Mitchell?

Barker fought more decent level domestic opponents, but Mitchell fought the better ones. Of the fights they missed Barker missed less, but that's mainly because he stayed in one division and the ones he missed were possibly better than the ones that Mitchell missed.

So to answer the question: I don't think it is clear who was the biggest ducker, but I'd just give Mitchell the edge due to him fighting less domestic opponents and having less excuses than Barker had.

[Boxerbeetle]

Martin Murray's record is rather lacking in domestic action, probably not through any particular fault of his own.

Martin Murray:

Didn't fight: Matthew Macklin, Darren Barker, Andy Lee, Billy Joe Saunders, Chris Eubank Jr, Kerry Hope, James DeGale, George Groves, Callum Smith, Paul Smith, Rocky Fielding, Luke Blackledge, Frank Buglioni, Lee Markham, Jamie Cox, Steven Bendall, John Ryder, Eamonn O'Kane, Craig McEwan, John Duddy, Paul Samuels, Tom Doran & Martin Concepcion.

Fought: Danny Butler, Cello Renda & Nick Blackwell.


If Murray continues to not fight his domestic rivals then he will be a worse domestic ducker than Mitchell.

I believe that he will fight some of his better domestic rivals before he retires though.

That's about as close to criticising Murray as I've ever heard you get

[Kingfield]

Lol

it amazes me that people bite and rise to these posts.

Agreed; the DONKEY is banging one out at the replies he is getting. The guy is an absolute BELL END

Think he registers on the autism spectrum tbh.

[Finn]

As I said you can't fight everyone and in an era where boxers rarely fight more than 3 times a year it's even less likely.

He couldn't have fought all of them, but he only fought three of them.

Pretty pathetic really.

Who has ducked more than Mitchell?

Kevin Mitchell is held in high regards. You can't blame a fighter for aiming to be world class rather than targeting domestic level fighters. He fought the best of pack by beating Murray, and then facing burns. He didn't duck these people he was just heading in another direction.

You have an example of success to this; Khan didn't face too much domestic opposition, people accused him of ducking Murray. He wanted better things, and he's achieved great things, do you think anyone will look back on his career and say he ducked domestic level fighters?

[davie]

As I said you can't fight everyone and in an era where boxers rarely fight more than 3 times a year it's even less likely.

He couldn't have fought all of them, but he only fought three of them.

Pretty pathetic really.

Who has ducked more than Mitchell?

Kevin Mitchell is held in high regards. You can't blame a fighter for aiming to be world class rather than targeting domestic level fighters. He fought the best of pack by beating Murray, and then facing burns. He didn't duck these people he was just heading in another direction.

You have an example of success to this; Khan didn't face too much domestic opposition, people accused him of ducking Murray. He wanted better things, and he's achieved great things, do you think anyone will look back on his career and say he ducked domestic level fighters?

I think the big thing for me is, indeed he shouldn't target domestic class fighters, but when you are targetting world class level, but in the process of getting there, you're fighting foriegn fighters who really are no better than the domestic equivalent which is available to you, then why not just fight the domestic version.

I could go through Mitchells record and pick out name after name and go "he's area level", "he's a journey man", "he's brittish level at best"

and if you want european level or above fighters, then there have been British fighters at that level over the years who he could have faced.

As I said, Horse is being harsh, but his point remains valid, Mitchel and many others could have faced far more domestic rivals, made more interesting fights, built rivalries etc. They didn't and the British boxing scene is a worse place for it IMO

[Horse]

Think he registers on the autism spectrum tbh.

Should you really be making fun of me if I have mental problems?

[Horse]

Kevin Mitchell is held in high regards. You can't blame a fighter for aiming to be world class rather than targeting domestic level fighters. He fought the best of pack by beating Murray, and then facing burns. He didn't duck these people he was just heading in another direction.

Mitchell did seem to be actively avoiding domestic opposition from the start.

Look at his International and Commonwealth title runs early in his career. Fighting obscure foreigners instead of far more interesting domestic ones.

You have an example of success to this; Khan didn't face too much domestic opposition, people accused him of ducking Murray.

Amir Khan.

Didn't fight: Kell Brook, John Murray, Jon Thaxton, Frankie Gavin, Junior Witter, Sam Eggington, Bradley Skeete, Ashley Theophane, Lenny Daws, Lee Meager, Dave Stewart, Colin Lynes, Darren Hamilton, Lee Purdy, Denton Vassell, Jason Cook & Nigel Wright.

Fought: Ryan Barrett, Stefy Bull, Willie Limond, Scott Lawton, Graham Earl, Michael Gomez, Oisin Fagan & Paul McCloskey.


Look at all of the domestic journeymen that Khan fought at the start of his career as well. When Khan was coming up he fought plenty of domestic opponents.

Khan wasn't really in much of a position to fight a lot of the opponents that I said he didn't fight. Mitchell was in the right position to fight most of the opponents that I said he didn't fight.

He wanted better things, and he's achieved great things, do you think anyone will look back on his career and say he ducked domestic level fighters?

If Khan doesn't fight Brook at some point then it will be mentioned how he ducked a domestic opponent.

Khan ducking Thaxton and Murray might not matter much now, but they would have been exciting fights at the time. Mitchell never really stepped above that level though. Murray is his best win and Thaxton would be right up there as well.

Khan was heading towards bigger things. Mitchell wasn't, he just seemed to act like he was.

[taffytoon]

Lol

it amazes me that people bite and rise to these posts.

Agreed; the DONKEY is banging one out at the replies he is getting. The guy is an absolute BELL END

Think he registers on the autism spectrum tbh.

C u ntismn mate

[Kingfield]

Think he registers on the autism spectrum tbh.

Should you really be making fun of me if I have mental problems?

Absolutely no humour in my post at all.

[Horse]

Absolutely no humour in my post at all.

Or any of the others.