Uriah Burton 'Big Just'

[Loftgroov]

Big Just was a hard man, but when it comes to the cobbles there's not a man born of his mother that can beat me

[palooka]

It's never been about a fair fight, Henry Francis said it's important how many people you can bring with you.

[Terry Dooley]

Peter Fury was interviewed recently, I can't remember where, and he did the usual Fury thing about how they are from a long lineage of fighters and he mentioned Uriah Burton as being a relative and how he had been king of the gypsies in his time. I think it was boxing monthly or boxing news. I'll have a look to see if I threw it out.

Cue our resident gypsy historian... Henry, where are you?

I did that one for BM. He talked about what he learned from Burton as a youngster. It will be posted online once the new mag is released.

[palooka]

Peter Fury was interviewed recently, I can't remember where, and he did the usual Fury thing about how they are from a long lineage of fighters and he mentioned Uriah Burton as being a relative and how he had been king of the gypsies in his time. I think it was boxing monthly or boxing news. I'll have a look to see if I threw it out.

Cue our resident gypsy historian... Henry, where are you?

I did that one for BM. He talked about what he learned from Burton as a youngster. It will be posted online once the new mag is released.

When's the next issue out, Terry?

[Loftgroov]

Burton would have a lot more support from the travelling lads. Gorman isn't highly thought of. John Partridge is seen as a good man to have a drink with. If you'd like to see how the lads all carry on now, go on York Press website and see what happened yesterday. Absolutely no fair play.

Thought Gorman was well thought of

Who really knows. His book is a good read and he seemed to have genuine morals and dislike for those who don’t. He was clearly tough and could give someone a belting, but the chapter where is talks about holding his own with Muhammad Ali, if only he’d gotten the chance, is probably a bit fanciful.

All these bareknuckle fighters are full of yarns, all have ‘never been beaten’, and all claim to have won various fights despite seemingly unassailable odds.

What video evidence of their standard of fighting is there?

You can check out e.g. Aney McGinley vs Dan Rooney on Youtube and see the standard we’re talking about. These were apparently top men in their day. Having seen a few such videos, for the most part it’s just out of condition sluggers, with their heads down, windmilling and jabbing away until they run out of puff; which then usually results in one of their slanty-eyed henchman running over to hold their arm aloft and declare them the winner, before they break out into hysterical shouting and saunter off to the pub.

I just treat the stories as entertainment when having a dull moment.

[mickey1975]

It's never been about a fair fight, Henry Francis said it's important how many people you can bring with you.

Honestly, the things they were up to on Wednesday defy belief...

[Terry Dooley]

Peter Fury was interviewed recently, I can't remember where, and he did the usual Fury thing about how they are from a long lineage of fighters and he mentioned Uriah Burton as being a relative and how he had been king of the gypsies in his time. I think it was boxing monthly or boxing news. I'll have a look to see if I threw it out.

Cue our resident gypsy historian... Henry, where are you?

I did that one for BM. He talked about what he learned from Burton as a youngster. It will be posted online once the new mag is released.

When's the next issue out, Terry?

Should be in app stores Tues then out in print next Thurs, mate. Mark Butcher usually Tweets an update on the week of publication. I've got my fourth Fury in six months this month.

[palooka]

It's never been about a fair fight, Henry Francis said it's important how many people you can bring with you.

Honestly, the things they were up to on Wednesday defy belief...

Come on, Mickey - spill the beans. The York news mentions weapons found in the cemetery but not much else. Two tribes go to war?

[mickey1975]

Guns, knives and weapons in a cemetery and those attacking the mourners is pretty bad however you look at it!

[palooka]

Guns, knives and weapons in a cemetery and those attacking the mourners is pretty bad however you look at it!

Terrible, did you see the stuff a couple of months ago with the bodies been dug up and they took the skull away?

[HomicideHenry]

Who really knows. His book is a good read and he seemed to have genuine morals and dislike for those who don’t. He was clearly tough and could give someone a belting, but the chapter where is talks about holding his own with Muhammad Ali, if only he’d gotten the chance, is probably a bit fanciful.

In fairness to Gorman, when he met Ali in the 1980's, Ali was clearly beginning to deteriorate from Parkinson's Syndrome. From what I recall of the book, Gorman said AT THAT TIME he felt he could have taken him. Now had Gorman said he felt he could have taken Ali at his best, or near best, etc. then I would agree with you on the matter. But at that time, I imagine alot of men (Gorman included) gloves or no gloves could have beaten Ali. I believe it was 1983 when Gorman met Ali and it was in 1984 that Ali was officially diagnosed.

As for the comments made elsewhere in your post, I agree with you (by and large). I always tell people that boxing is boxing regardless of gloves or fists, and that it comes down strictly to skills and abilities. Take a gander sometime at videos of Paddy Jaws Ward fighting the McGinley's and you will see what I mean. Ward, at one time, represented Ireland in the amateurs and turned pro (until he was caught bare knuckle fighting and his license revoked forever) and whenever he does bare knuckle bouts he is always calm, poised, at ease and defeats these "hard cases" without much difficulty, usually in three minutes or less.

That's why whenever I watch the YouTube battles, I do a little background research on the "fighters" in question. 99% of the contests are between loud mouths with no real ability. It still is entertaining, but nothing to really talk about. You can see the same sort of ability and "skill" in a bar room on a Saturday night anywhere in the free world. However, every once in a while you will see a guy who has skills and chops these cavemen to bits, and is all but untouchable. Now, in a pro boxing setting, they might just be average boxers or slightly above average.

However, that is why I generally hold someone like Gorman to a high degree over the likes of (say) Joe Joyce and others who have much storied "careers" because it is documented that Gorman did compete in the amateurs for quite a long while. He did have experience sparring with some pros, and managed to do well. And, because of that, he was better than most out there in the bare knuckle world. Now, was there better gypsies than him? Sure there was. Johnny Frankham was far and away better. Why? Because Frankham had better skills. He was more elusive, he was fast, and he managed to fight for the gloved championship of his country in what was a highly competitive fight. In a hypothetical "fight" between him and Gorman, I'd lean towards Frankham. It's a safe bet.

Now, throw Gorman in with the likes of Lenny McLean, and the story changes.

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

In fairness to Gorman, when he met Ali in the 1980's, Ali was clearly beginning to deteriorate from Parkinson's Syndrome. From what I recall of the book, Gorman said AT THAT TIME he felt he could have taken him.

But at that time, I imagine alot of men (Gorman included) gloves or no gloves could have beaten Ali.

[Tomasino]

Who really knows. His book is a good read and he seemed to have genuine morals and dislike for those who don’t. He was clearly tough and could give someone a belting, but the chapter where is talks about holding his own with Muhammad Ali, if only he’d gotten the chance, is probably a bit fanciful.

In fairness to Gorman, when he met Ali in the 1980's, Ali was clearly beginning to deteriorate from Parkinson's Syndrome. From what I recall of the book, Gorman said AT THAT TIME he felt he could have taken him. Now had Gorman said he felt he could have taken Ali at his best, or near best, etc. then I would agree with you on the matter. But at that time, I imagine alot of men (Gorman included) gloves or no gloves could have beaten Ali. I believe it was 1983 when Gorman met Ali and it was in 1984 that Ali was officially diagnosed.

As for the comments made elsewhere in your post, I agree with you (by and large). I always tell people that boxing is boxing regardless of gloves or fists, and that it comes down strictly to skills and abilities. Take a gander sometime at videos of Paddy Jaws Ward fighting the McGinley's and you will see what I mean. Ward, at one time, represented Ireland in the amateurs and turned pro (until he was caught bare knuckle fighting and his license revoked forever) and whenever he does bare knuckle bouts he is always calm, poised, at ease and defeats these "hard cases" without much difficulty, usually in three minutes or less.

That's why whenever I watch the YouTube battles, I do a little background research on the "fighters" in question. 99% of the contests are between loud mouths with no real ability. It still is entertaining, but nothing to really talk about. You can see the same sort of ability and "skill" in a bar room on a Saturday night anywhere in the free world. However, every once in a while you will see a guy who has skills and chops these cavemen to bits, and is all but untouchable. Now, in a pro boxing setting, they might just be average boxers or slightly above average.

However, that is why I generally hold someone like Gorman to a high degree over the likes of (say) Joe Joyce and others who have much storied "careers" because it is documented that Gorman did compete in the amateurs for quite a long while. He did have experience sparring with some pros, and managed to do well. And, because of that, he was better than most out there in the bare knuckle world. Now, was there better gypsies than him? Sure there was. Johnny Frankham was far and away better. Why? Because Frankham had better skills. He was more elusive, he was fast, and he managed to fight for the gloved championship of his country in what was a highly competitive fight. In a hypothetical "fight" between him and Gorman, I'd lean towards Frankham. It's a safe bet.

Now, throw Gorman in with the likes of Lenny McLean, and the story changes.

Potentially your most retarded post ever. Potentially. There is fierce competition however. You don't know a fornicating thing about Frankham that's not on the web. Your not first hand in anyway. I love you Rufus.

[Cyclops]

I like HomicideHenry. I don't agree with everything he says (actually most of what he says) but he is a genuine poster and is passionate about the sport at least.

[whiskey]

Burton would have a lot more support from the travelling lads. Gorman isn't highly thought of. John Partridge is seen as a good man to have a drink with. If you'd like to see how the lads all carry on now, go on York Press website and see what happened yesterday. Absolutely no fair play.

Got a link Mickey ?

[Stevolad]

http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/1428391 ... ter_fight/

[HomicideHenry]

In fairness to Gorman, when he met Ali in the 1980's, Ali was clearly beginning to deteriorate from Parkinson's Syndrome. From what I recall of the book, Gorman said AT THAT TIME he felt he could have taken him.

But at that time, I imagine alot of men (Gorman included) gloves or no gloves could have beaten Ali.

You don't think Ali, riddled with Parkinson's Disease, couldn't be beaten by the most preliminary of boxers?

I don't know what is more "outrageous", my position that he could or your position that he couldn't.

Potentially your most retarded post ever. Potentially. There is fierce competition however. You don't know a effing thing about Frankham that's not on the web. Your not first hand in anyway. I love you Rufus.

I'm confused here, because I said that I don't believe Gorman could have beaten Frankham.... and yet you criticize me repeatedly non stop that I am biased with the Gorman's, Fury's, etc.... It seems to me you like to make arguments, just for the sake of arguments. I made some good points on the gypsy boxing world (as a whole) that the majority are not even amateur class, let alone pro class and pointed out that whether its gloves or bare fists skills over rides anything else and that's why guys like Paddy Jaws Ward easily defeats rival families in fights because of his pedigree in the amateurs and professionals. My point was, in a head to head scenario, Frankham (despite size differentials) had a higher pedigree than Bartley and would therefore win, as Gorman was among the amateur class (although he did spar with professionals, and considred a pro go for a time). Anyways, good luck on your follow up posts/trolling of future posts I may make on the subject.

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

You don't think Ali, riddled with Parkinson's Disease, couldn't be beaten by the most preliminary of boxers?

I don't know what is more "outrageous", my position that he could or your position that he couldn't.

No, I don't as it happens, not in the early 80's anyway.

In 1981, Ali hung tough for 10 rounds against a prime Trevor Berbick, who was a very tough heavyweight.

Bartley Gorman would have lasted nearly 10 seconds with Trevor Berbick, and that is why I concluded that
your comment was indeed, silly.

[HomicideHenry]

You don't think Ali, riddled with Parkinson's Disease, couldn't be beaten by the most preliminary of boxers?

I don't know what is more "outrageous", my position that he could or your position that he couldn't.

No, I don't as it happens, not in the early 80's anyway.

In 1981, Ali hung tough for 10 rounds against a prime Trevor Berbick, who was a very tough heavyweight.

Bartley Gorman would have lasted nearly 10 seconds with Trevor Berbick, and that is why I concluded that
your comment was indeed, silly.

He met Ali in 1983, though. There are various pictures out there of Ali at that time, to show that he had dramatically changed from the Holmes and Berbick fights. So, I have a hard time imagining Ali being a legitimate favorite in such a hypothetical except on paper. That and it is of no surprise, that Berbick himself said following the Ali fight that he stuck to body blows against Ali because he didn't want to hurt Ali anymore than he had to. So, an admission, that he took it easy on Ali.

[palooka]

Trevor Berbick is underated, he was a big, strong and game fighter. I've no doubt at all he'd have destroyed a much less experienced boxer such as Gorman.

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

Trevor Berbick is underated, he was a big, strong and game fighter. I've no doubt at all he'd have destroyed a much less experienced boxer such as Gorman.

He would have battered Gorman inside a round, even with body punches, it is only HH who thinks otherwise.

[Matt the Master]

Big Just was a hard man, but when it comes to the cobbles there's not a man born of his mother that can beat me

I'll beat any man born from his mothers asshole, and I'm here today to prove it, any of them, makes no difference, I'm still known as King of the Travellers !!!

[Matt the Master]

I always wondered is Hosea related.
Uriah burton in Bartley Gorman book was a travelling fighting legend

It's his Grandad I think, and Fury's.

Uriah 'Hughie/Big Just' Burton is the deceased Grand Uncle of Hosea Burton and the Grand Uncle of Tyson Fury. Uriah's older brother 'Oathy' (Hosea) is the young British Light Heavyweight's paternal Grand Father, his Father (Oathy's son) is also called Hosea/Oathy would you believe. John Fury (Tyson's dad who needs no introduction here, and I'm referring to John Fury not John Partridge ) married one of Uriah's brother Oathy's daughters, and Tyson was the first progeny resulting from this union, so Tyson and Hosea Jr are cousins through the Burton clan, it's a wonderful thing in my opinion to have such a big extended family like theirs, so many brothers sisters and cousins, complicated though, but coming from a smaller family (in comparison to Travellers/Gypsies, but then whose isn't !) I find it kind of nostalgic !

[Matt the Master]

I always wondered is Hosea related.
Uriah burton in Bartley Gorman book was a travelling fighting legend

It's his Grandad I think, and Fury's.

Uriah 'Hughie/Big Just' Burton is the deceased Grand Uncle of Hosea Burton and the Grand Uncle of Tyson Fury. Uriah's older brother 'Oathy' (Hosea) is the young British Light Heavyweight's paternal Grand Father, his Father (Oathy's son) is also called Hosea/Oathy would you believe. John Fury (Tyson's dad who needs no introduction here, and I'm referring to John Fury not John Partridge ) married one of Uriah's brother Oathy's daughters, and Tyson was the first progeny resulting from this union, so Tyson and Hosea Jr are cousins through the Burton clan, it's a wonderful thing in my opinion to have such a big extended family like theirs, so many brothers sisters and cousins, complicated though, but coming from a smaller family (in comparison to Travellers/Gypsies, but then whose isn't !) I find it kind of nostalgic ! Though I could have just shortened this post by saying Oathy, Uriah's brother, is Hosea Burtons paternal Grand Father, and Uriah his paternal Grand Uncle, and the same are Tyson Fury's maternal Grand Father and maternal Grand Uncle respectively, but I digress....