Luis Ortiz is the best heavyweight in the world

[Wales]

he would beat a prime holmes or prime holyfield.

.

I stopped reading here. Ortiz beats a prime Holyfield and Holmes? Are you mental?

. Wins over Tony Thompson, whos lost 4 of his last 6, and Bryant Jennings also coming off a loss, doesnt propell him into the top 10 heavyweights of all time!

Ortiz reminds me of Bowe in his style a little (but not as good). Biggest flaw i can see is his engine. Thought he looked like gassing around round 6 against Jennings, rallied and got the KO in the 7th.

Putting the Holyfield and Holmes comments aside, as far as the current champions go theyre all beatable for Ortiz.
Fury well overrated, put on seat of his pants against SS Cunningham ffs!
Charles Martin - poor champion that relative novice Joshua will fancy dethroning
Lucas Browne - showed balls against Chagaev to get up and win, but also huge flaws in punch resistance (not just the knockdown) and for a man of his size and stature you'd think he'd have a half decent jab to take centre of the ring. Simply isnt that good, at all.
Wilder, looks less impressive everytime i see him since winning the title. Great performance against Stiverne to win WBC title, a title many regard as the best of the 4 straps. Then fights Eric Molina (who?), some french fella called Duffus (who?) then looked pretty clueless against Spitka whod lost to Bryant Jennings and whos best win was a close points win over a 38yr old Adamek who'd just been completley outboxed in his last outing.

At least now Wlads been knocked off his perch there are exciting HW fights out there though!

[Davidreed]

He should be no 3 in the list after Wlad & Wilder in my opinion.

[davie]

stop feeding the troll

It's so hard not to.
You read this and wonder if some of these people are really that stupid or on the wind up?

I feel sorry for humanity if there actually are people who are this stupid.

Not wanting to question the OP's intelligence, so all I'll say is, I honestly don't believe he's at the wind up.

[Roars Like Me]

Was it established if the author is actually Bnovelist?

[jamesmcdonnell]

So, Ortiz would beat prime Holmes and Holyfield but Wilder would have a good shot at beating him?

If he was better than everyone else he wouldn't have needed to dope. No credit for dopers. Ever.

Who is NOT a doper ? Some just do too much and/or not very skillfully.

Ridiculous comment. The 'everyone is doing it, I just got caught' excuse is utterly pathetic. The bans for doping in pro boxing are so laughable no-one gives too much of a sh1t if they get caught.
And apparently plenty of fans don't give a sh1t either...

I'm afraid to say, it seems almost certain, given the piss-poor testing that it is rife - given how much more stringent it is in Atheltics, and how widespread it appears there, it's a no brainer.

[foxdog1923]

Ortiz has no belt. That's all close the thread.

[jezzamundo]

Prime Holmes? That's a bold statement, however I think he could beat any HW out there today.

he is taller and has a longer reach than holmes, on top weighs much more than holmes, who weighed at his prime around 97 kg, while ortiz who is at his prime right now weighs 110 kg.

i would not say ortiz would have an easy night, holmes was easily one of the best heavys ever, top 7 for sure.

but lets look at the important factors, who has the advantage

jab holmes
power ortiz
strength ortiz
footwork equal
technic equal
chin ortiz
speed equal
punch variation close, but i would say ortiz

simply put it, prime ortiz is overall a better boxer than prime holmes. but since ortiz is cuban and didnt get the opportunity to face big names, simply didnt have the same opportunitys he ill therefore never reach the star level of holmes, but as far as boxing goes ortiz is elite

I like a prime Holmes to beat Ortiz by a wide unanimous decision, based on what I've seen of Ortiz so far, possibly even a late stoppage, depending on Ortiz's durability.

Ortiz is an inch taller, but in their normal boxing stances, the more upright Holmes would be taller, which also negates Ortiz's reach advantage. The weight gap could potentially go in Holmes's favour in a long fight, where his better stamina could be decisive. I see it more like this:

Jab - Holmes
Power - Ortiz
Strength - Ortiz (although strength can be made a non-issue by a master boxer like Holmes)
Footwork - Holmes (far greater footspeed and mobility)
Technique - Too close to call
Chin - We need to see Ortiz take big shots from a big puncher before we can call this. Holmes had a very good chin and excellent powers of recuperation.
Speed - Holmes (are you high?)
Punch variation - Equal

Based on what I've seen to date, I think Holmes might visit the canvas, but would box from the outside and take a lopsided decision over Ortiz, if not stopping him late, possibly on cuts.

Ortiz vs Holyfield is a more interesting matchup because Ortiz's size and strength would play a greater part. If Holyfield boxes smart, I think he should win a clear decision. If he tries to mix it up too often - like in the first Bowe fight - I could see Evander being hurt, going down and possibly losing a close decision. That said, we don't know whether Ortiz has the stamina to keep up with a prime Holyfield, so I think a Holyfield stoppage win is a very possible outcome too.

[Nightgaunt]

Ohhh man, Alexander Dimitrenko would Kill this fellow. I mean Dimitrenko would really put a hurting on this fellow Ortis it would be a slaughter.

Are you mixing up Russian/Eastern European fighters here? Dimitrenko has fought tomato cans only since Pulev knocked him out.
Povetkin maybe?

[Undefeated49-0]

Ortiz has no belt. That's all close the thread.

Belts do not necessarily define a fighter today, back in the old days when there was only one belt in each division then i would've agreed with you but the way it is today the most lamest of fighters could possibly ended up belted.

I have to admit that I was disappointed in Ortiz's performance, he was doing much too much headhunting and hardly ever went to that flabby body of Tony's which if he had then more than likely would've gotten an earlier stoppage.

It didn't help Ortiz much that Tony was a SP like himself so that posed a lot of difficulty seeing that Ortiz is used to facing boxers who have the Orthodox style.

[jezzamundo]

As hard as Ortiz punches, and we know it is very hard, I doubt it is anywhere near Gerry Cooney's power.

Larry handled that pretty easily.

gerry at his prime weight around 225, ortiz now at his prime ways around 240

gerry had a 77% and ortiz a 81 %...there is no much difference, i would more tend to ortiz simply because he was the heavier bigger man

I think there's plenty of evidence that punching power (though not strength) maxes out at about 220lb and any additional weight can be as much of a disadvantage as an advantage. Just look at some of the biggest punchers in heavyweight history:

Earnie Shavers - prime weight 210lb
George Foreman - prime weight 220lb
Mike Tyson - prime weight 218lb

Based on the eye test, I'd say Cooney had the better one-shot power, particularly in his left hook, although for overall heavy hands, it's probably quite close.

[Oiky]

luis ortiz is some fighter for one fighter

[jezzamundo]

Joshua to preserve his career had better stay away from Ortiz. Comparing Ortiz to Holmes, no way they are two different style fighters. Ortiz is more like a George Foreman with power in every blow, though we shall see just how tough with the next top level fights. A good fight for Ortiz would be with Kubrat or Browne.

ortiz has not much to do with foreman. to me foreman was a boxer with litle technic, bad footwork and world class power. ortiz has excellent footwork and technic and possesses on top huge power.

kubrat or browne who was close at losing to small ruslan are not on ortiz level. ortz needs guys like parker, wilder as soon as possible. but watch them duck him.

I agree that Ortiz should start as favourite against both men - one thing both Pulev and Browe have over Ortiz is footspeed. I could see both - though particularly Pulev - winning rounds against him by boxing from the outside. That said, Ortiz's superior infighting and power would make a difference in the end - I definitely see him stopping Browne. I might have given Pulev a better chance in the past, but he has been taking on poor opposition since being stopped by Wlad and arguably wouldn't have the power to keep Ortiz off him.

[jezzamundo]

Ohhh man, Alexander Dimitrenko would Kill this fellow. I mean Dimitrenko would really put a hurting on this fellow Ortis it would be a slaughter.

Really? The same Dimitrenko who was knocked down twice and clearly outpointed by blown-up cruiserweight Eddie Chambers?!

[pound per pound]

Prime Holmes? That's a bold statement, however I think he could beat any HW out there today.

I know! Ortiz to me looks a little slow. Holmes who was blazing fast I think would decision him.

[foxdog1923]

Ortiz has no belt. That's all close the thread.

Belts do not necessarily define a fighter today, back in the old days when there was only one belt in each division then i would've agreed with you but the way it is today the most lamest of fighters could possibly ended up belted.

I have to admit that I was disappointed in Ortiz's performance, he was doing much too much headhunting and hardly ever went to that flabby body of Tony's which if he had then more than likely would've gotten an earlier stoppage.

It didn't help Ortiz much that Tony was a SP like himself so that posed a lot of difficulty seeing that Ortiz is used to facing boxers who have the Orthodox style.

Yeah I know but I'm just putting out the no Brainer fact. The belt or belts means your the best and you know that.

[Undefeated49-0]

Yeah I know but I'm just putting out the no Brainer fact. The belt or belts means your the best and you know that.

Maybe to a bunch of casual boxing fans but I still do not necessarily agree that this is what it means. It may mean you're the champion but not necessarily the best.

[Wales]

Who is NOT a doper ? Some just do too much and/or not very skillfully.

Ridiculous comment. The 'everyone is doing it, I just got caught' excuse is utterly pathetic. The bans for doping in pro boxing are so laughable no-one gives too much of a sh1t if they get caught.
And apparently plenty of fans don't give a sh1t either...

I'm afraid to say, it seems almost certain, given the piss-poor testing that it is rife - given how much more stringent it is in Atheltics, and how widespread it appears there, it's a no brainer.

Unbelievably bad. Not sure if you remember James but there was a certain british heavyweight who was posting using same name on here as he was a well known bodybuilding site.

On the bodybuilding site he was posting what steroids and accompanying drugs he was taking per cycle - doing it heavy can cost hundreads of pounds and his cycles were. He was also boxing at the time.

I posted this in a thread about said fighter and included links to the other message board. I received 2 PMs - one from a poster saying "take that down if i were you, hes sort of person that'll get people to find you and fill you in if anything comes of your post" the second was from an admin saying "we've removed your post as its slanderous, final warning or youre banned"

About 2 years later he was banned for steroid use! During them two years he couldve hurt someone. Badly.

Thats my little story, further evidence its rife, well, how about (off top of my head) the following being caught...

Vitali Klit
Roy Jones Jnr
James Toney
Evander Holyfield
Mosley
Vargas
Mayorga
Botha

Hardly a list of small time under radar trailer park fighters

[Wales]

Yeah I know but I'm just putting out the no Brainer fact. The belt or belts means your the best and you know that.

Maybe to a bunch of casual boxing fans but I still do not necessarily agree that this is what it means. It may mean you're the champion but not necessarily the best.

Means youve beaten someome whos beaten someone whos beaten someone. Ortiz hasnt, yet.

One thing i will say, which may harm Ortiz "you dont get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate"

[Lancenix]

Ortiz has no belt. That's all close the thread.

He had the WBA strap what happened??

[Lancenix]

Yeah I know but I'm just putting out the no Brainer fact. The belt or belts means your the best and you know that.

Maybe to a bunch of casual boxing fans but I still do not necessarily agree that this is what it means. It may mean you're the champion but not necessarily the best.

Yeah a belt means next to nothing these days except to the casual fan. I agree.

[asdfjkl]

Ohhh man, Alexander Dimitrenko would Kill this fellow. I mean Dimitrenko would really put a hurting on this fellow Ortis it would be a slaughter.

Really? The same Dimitrenko who was knocked down twice and clearly outpointed by blown-up cruiserweight Eddie Chambers?!

Dimitrenko was scheduled to fight Ortiz but Ortiz opted to fight Thompson instead cause he knew that Dimitrenko was all wrong for him. Dimitrenko would punch Ortiz into bits.

Thompson just got higher stats, so winning against Yhompson gives more ranks, respect, everything.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Yeah I know but I'm just putting out the no Brainer fact. The belt or belts means your the best and you know that.

Maybe to a bunch of casual boxing fans but I still do not necessarily agree that this is what it means. It may mean you're the champion but not necessarily the best.

Belts definitely should mean nothing to fans, but a bunch of casual fans don't know who any of these guys are.

[Taki...]

Ridiculous comment. The 'everyone is doing it, I just got caught' excuse is utterly pathetic. The bans for doping in pro boxing are so laughable no-one gives too much of a sh1t if they get caught.
And apparently plenty of fans don't give a sh1t either...

I'm afraid to say, it seems almost certain, given the piss-poor testing that it is rife - given how much more stringent it is in Atheltics, and how widespread it appears there, it's a no brainer.

Unbelievably bad. Not sure if you remember James but there was a certain british heavyweight who was posting using same name on here as he was a well known bodybuilding site.

On the bodybuilding site he was posting what steroids and accompanying drugs he was taking per cycle - doing it heavy can cost hundreads of pounds and his cycles were. He was also boxing at the time.

I posted this in a thread about said fighter and included links to the other message board. I received 2 PMs - one from a poster saying "take that down if i were you, hes sort of person that'll get people to find you and fill you in if anything comes of your post" the second was from an admin saying "we've removed your post as its slanderous, final warning or youre banned"

About 2 years later he was banned for steroid use! During them two years he couldve hurt someone. Badly.

Thats my little story, further evidence its rife, well, how about (off top of my head) the following being caught...

Vitali Klit
Roy Jones Jnr
James Toney
Evander Holyfield
Mosley
Vargas
Mayorga
Botha

Hardly a list of small time under radar trailer park fighters

This is the point though. If boxing fans don't care about dopers in the sport why would the authorities?
I've no time for dopers in any sport, and even less time for fans who ignore it, or make excuses for it.
Ortiz is a cheat, a doper, and I'd be happy if he was frozen out of any and all future title fights.
I'll certainly never pay for any event he's involved in.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Ohhh man, Alexander Dimitrenko would Kill this fellow. I mean Dimitrenko would really put a hurting on this fellow Ortis it would be a slaughter.

Really? The same Dimitrenko who was knocked down twice and clearly outpointed by blown-up cruiserweight Eddie Chambers?!

Dimitrenko was scheduled to fight Ortiz but Ortiz opted to fight Thompson instead cause he knew that Dimitrenko was all wrong for him. Dimitrenko would punch Ortiz into bits.

Dimitrenko agreed to the fight and then asked for more money and refused to sign. He'd be lucky to beat Thompson.

[jezzamundo]

Ohhh man, Alexander Dimitrenko would Kill this fellow. I mean Dimitrenko would really put a hurting on this fellow Ortis it would be a slaughter.

Really? The same Dimitrenko who was knocked down twice and clearly outpointed by blown-up cruiserweight Eddie Chambers?!

Dimitrenko was scheduled to fight Ortiz but Ortiz opted to fight Thompson instead cause he knew that Dimitrenko was all wrong for him. Dimitrenko would punch Ortiz into bits.

Which Dimitrenko or Ortiz fights would lead you to believe that? Seems a very odd opinion to me as Dimitrenko has never impressed me.