Old Champions v Current Champions

[fightfan95]

What would happen if these champions fought?

Heavyweight - Nikolay Valuev v Deontay Wilder
Cruiserweight - O'Neil Bell v Grigory Drozd
Light-Heavyweight - Antonio Tarver v Sergey Kovalev
Supper Middleweight - Steve Collins v Arthur Abraham
Middleweight - ~Jermain Taylor v Saul Alvarez
Supper Welterweight - Julian Jackson v Erislandy Lara
Welterweight - Ricky Hatton v Kell Brook

[sucracristo]

What would happen if these champions fought?

Heavyweight - Nikolay Valuev v Deontay Wilder
Cruiserweight - O'Neil Bell v Grigory Drozd
Light-Heavyweight - Antonio Tarver v Sergey Kovalev
Supper Middleweight - Steve Collins v Arthur Abraham
Middleweight - ~Jermain Taylor v Saul Alvarez
Supper Welterweight - Julian Jackson v Erislandy Lara
Welterweight - Ricky Hatton v Kell Brook

wilder UD
not really that intriguing matchup other than hearing how bell tragically met his maker recently. maybe drozd decision
good fight. don't know.
abraham seems to have a way of controlling the pace and stealing close fights. more skilled than collins
prime taylor would give saul a good fight. don't know, at middle maybe taylor
would love to see jackson spark lara but lara would probably turn it into a stinker
i was one of at least half the observers who thought brook didn't deserve more than a draw over porter, but probably controls hatton

[Larrylefthook]

What would happen if these champions fought?

Heavyweight - Nikolay Valuev v Deontay Wilder
Cruiserweight - O'Neil Bell v Grigory Drozd
Light-Heavyweight - Antonio Tarver v Sergey Kovalev
Supper Middleweight - Steve Collins v Arthur Abraham
Middleweight - ~Jermain Taylor v Saul Alvarez
Supper Welterweight - Julian Jackson v Erislandy Lara
Welterweight - Ricky Hatton v Kell Brook

wilder UD
not really that intriguing matchup other than hearing how bell tragically met his maker recently. maybe drozd decision
good fight. don't know.
abraham seems to have a way of controlling the pace and stealing close fights. more skilled than collins
prime taylor would give saul a good fight. don't know, at middle maybe taylor
would love to see jackson spark lara but lara would probably turn it into a stinker
i was one of at least half the observers who thought brook didn't deserve more than a draw over porter, but probably controls hatton

Only according to you, 80% of the ringside press scored it to Brook (49 out of 61) so to say most people had him losing the fight or lucky to get a draw is damn propaganda.
Source http://www.boxingnewsonline.net/nine-me ... ell-brook/

Anyway Hatton was just a bit too small for WW so I would favour Brook.

[jezzamundo]

Wilder UD12 Valuev - athleticism and speed advantage wins this for Wilder. Actually I think Wilder is a decent chance for a KO seeing as Haye hurt Valuev and Wilder probably hits harder and given his size and reach, would probably land more often than Haye did. Valuev is definitely a puncher's chance though, albeit a slim one.
Bell vs Drozd - haven't watched enough of either to make a call.
Kovalev UD12 Tarver - with a prime Tarver, I think this is an excellent fight, as Antonio would be clearly the bigger man and his southpaw stance and boxing skills could give Kovalev some difficulty. That said, I think Sergei's power, aggression and activity win him a clear 116-112 type decision.
Collins vs Abraham - haven't seen enough of Collins to make a call.
Taylor UD12 Alvarez - While Saul has the power to stop Taylor, I don't think he has the pressure or activity level. Taylor is bigger, faster, more athletic and throws more punches, if he comes in focused, he should win a wide decision.
Jackson KO7 Lara - Lara is the better boxer, but he can't afford one defensive lapse against Jackson. My money is on Jackson being behind on points and catching Erislandy with something huge that ends the fight.
Brook SD12 Hatton - I make this call with the least confidence of all, as it's really hard to judge how good Brook is at this stage. I could see either guy winning.

[sucracristo]

i was one of at least half the observers who thought brook didn't deserve more than a draw over porter, but probably controls hatton

Only according to you, 80% of the ringside press scored it to Brook (49 out of 61) so to say most people had him losing the fight or lucky to get a draw is damn propaganda.
Source http://www.boxingnewsonline.net/nine-me ... ell-brook/

but i didn't say most, did i? you said most, not me. how the phuq can you post the quote right there
and still misquote me? the writer of the link you posted even scored it a draw, and that is just media
which i never even mentioned in my post. khan is not media and said it was a draw as well as lots
of other fighters. the round by round thread on here had lots scoring it draw or porter. brook was
the spoiler in that fight, slowing the pace and tying up porter. i'm not saying he isn't skilled, because
it takes skill to do what he did, but if you put 3 judges ringside for that kind of fight, at least one
is going to give it to the guy coming forward and throwing and landing and trying to make the fight.
if you include the number who had it 115-113 for brook now you are getting into most (your word)
who had brook nicking it or drawing or losing, which means it was hardly a convincing win. the point
is that brook's best win was VERY close, MOST did say it was either way, and who is he fighting now?
there still isn't much to judge his career off of but that one close fight. i still think he can get a decision
off hatton, though.

[Larrylefthook]

i was one of at least half the observers who thought brook didn't deserve more than a draw over porter, but probably controls hatton

Only according to you, 80% of the ringside press scored it to Brook (49 out of 61) so to say most people had him losing the fight or lucky to get a draw is damn propaganda.
Source http://www.boxingnewsonline.net/nine-me ... ell-brook/

but i didn't say most, did i? you said most, not me. how the phuq can you post the quote right there
and still misquote me? the writer of the link you posted even scored it a draw, and that is just media
which i never even mentioned in my post. khan is not media and said it was a draw as well as lots
of other fighters. the round by round thread on here had lots scoring it draw or porter. brook was
the spoiler in that fight, slowing the pace and tying up porter. i'm not saying he isn't skilled, because
it takes skill to do what he did, but if you put 3 judges ringside for that kind of fight, at least one
is going to give it to the guy coming forward and throwing and landing and trying to make the fight.
if you include the number who had it 115-113 for brook now you are getting into most (your word)
who had brook nicking it or drawing or losing, which means it was hardly a convincing win. the point
is that brook's best win was VERY close, MOST did say it was either way, and who is he fighting now?
there still isn't much to judge his career off of but that one close fight. i still think he can get a decision
off hatton, though.

You said at least half the observers thought Brook didn't deserve more then a draw, so by writing "at least" you are implying more then half, what is more then half? most.

Well 86% of people on here scored it to Brook too http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=184103

[HyacinthusTurnipseed]

Wilder UD12 Valuev - Wilder isn't Ali-esque but he is way too fast for Valuev.
I'm another one who hasn't seen enough of Drodz or Bell to say.
Kovalev SD12 Tarver - Tarver does well but a couple of big moments late accentuate a close but fair decision for Kov. Tarver claims he should've won.
Collins MD12 Abraham - Collins whirlwinds all over Abra, getting enough through and around his gloves to off-set AA's flashier bursts for at least two of the three judges.
Alvarez KO9 Taylor - Saul's underrated timing and power-punching keeps him in the fist half of the fight, Taylor's work becomes more and more ragged then BOOM!
Lara KO8 Jackson - If Lara knows Jackson's rep he boxes cautiously at first but and as Jackson gets more and more aggressive, Lara sneaks some hard straight left counters in with his clutching and lateral movement. One of these later in the fight get JJ on the button and that is pretty much all she wrote.
Brook KO4 Hatton - Brook is big at the weight and Hatton never looked good at it. Competitive for a few rounds but Brook wobbles him with a quick left hook and takes the game away. Doesn't rush it but early in the fourth round Hatton goes down hard from a right hand, gets swarmed after getting up 'til the ref jumps in.

[Wales]

What would happen if these champions fought?

Heavyweight - Nikolay Valuev v Deontay Wilder
Cruiserweight - O'Neil Bell v Grigory Drozd
Light-Heavyweight - Antonio Tarver v Sergey Kovalev
Supper Middleweight - Steve Collins v Arthur Abraham
Middleweight - ~Jermain Taylor v Saul Alvarez
Supper Welterweight - Julian Jackson v Erislandy Lara
Welterweight - Ricky Hatton v Kell Brook

Some real random ones there.... Asking who'd win out of Valuev and Wilder is as random as someone asking "who'd win out of a suicide bomber and a shark"

Valuev Wilder - god knows. Like to think Wilder could out box him to a pts win.
Bell v Drozd - no idea
Kovalev beats Tarver. Dont rate Tarver never have. When was his prime? Decent win over Montell Griffin. Forget Jones Jnr fights as only an idiot doesnt see that Jones dropping 20lbs after Ruiz finished his career then he loses to hopkins and twice to chad dawson. Never has there been a more apt boxing "nickname" than "Bad" Chad Dawson.
Collins beats Abraham on pts. Hands down. Abraham another one that hasnt reallly beaten anyone of any real note. Taylor was done by their bout.
Taylor Alvarez - most interesting one on the list. Tough to call as Canelo is only 25, so should still be improving. Prime Taylor would outpoint this current Canelo, i think.
Jackson beats Lara. Dont know if Lara would stand up to JJs power.
Hatton was a career light Welter. lost every welter fight he had. Brook should pick him off. Brook needs big fights to prove himself - at leasr ricky fought the best

[jezzamundo]

What would happen if these champions fought?

Heavyweight - Nikolay Valuev v Deontay Wilder
Cruiserweight - O'Neil Bell v Grigory Drozd
Light-Heavyweight - Antonio Tarver v Sergey Kovalev
Supper Middleweight - Steve Collins v Arthur Abraham
Middleweight - ~Jermain Taylor v Saul Alvarez
Supper Welterweight - Julian Jackson v Erislandy Lara
Welterweight - Ricky Hatton v Kell Brook

Some real random ones there.... Asking who'd win out of Valuev and Wilder is as random as someone asking "who'd win out of a suicide bomber and a shark"

Valuev Wilder - god knows. Like to think Wilder could out box him to a pts win.
Bell v Drozd - no idea
Kovalev beats Tarver. Dont rate Tarver never have. When was his prime? Decent win over Montell Griffin. Forget Jones Jnr fights as only an idiot doesnt see that Jones dropping 20lbs after Ruiz finished his career then he loses to hopkins and twice to chad dawson. Never has there been a more apt boxing "nickname" than "Bad" Chad Dawson.Kovalev beats Tarver. Dont rate Tarver never have. When was his prime? Decent win over Montell Griffin. Forget Jones Jnr fights as only an idiot doesnt see that Jones dropping 20lbs after Ruiz finished his career then he loses to hopkins and twice to chad dawson. Never has there been a more apt boxing "nickname" than "Bad" Chad Dawson.
Collins beats Abraham on pts. Hands down. Abraham another one that hasnt reallly beaten anyone of any real note. Taylor was done by their bout.
Taylor Alvarez - most interesting one on the list. Tough to call as Canelo is only 25, so should still be improving. Prime Taylor would outpoint this current Canelo, i think.
Jackson beats Lara. Dont know if Lara would stand up to JJs power.
Hatton was a career light Welter. lost every welter fight he had. Brook should pick him off. Brook needs big fights to prove himself - at leasr ricky fought the best

I think you're underrating Tarver and Dawson here. Firstly keep in mind that Tarver was always HUGE for light heavyweight - the guy has walked around at 220lb for most of his career. By the time he fought Dawson he was 40 and I believe making 175lb was definitely having a negative effect on his performances. Tarver isn't the most naturally gifted guy, but he's a very good technical boxer, though he was outboxed by a master at his best in Bernard Hopkins - again, I think the fact that Hopkins was fresh at 175lb, while Tarver was heavily drained made that fight more one-sided that it might have otherwise been.

Chad Dawson WAS a very good boxer, never strong-chinned, but very skilled - keep in mind he outboxed, rather than outslugged Bernard Hopkins, which even at his advanced age is impressive. His win over the very strong, though weight-drained, Adamek was impressive too - Dawson clearly outboxed him too. Losing to Ward is no shame, especially considering Dawson was weight-drained. Since that fight he hasn't been the same, though I think Stevenson would always have been a hard matchup for him.

[PredatorHayds]

Wilder wins a wide decision. Valuev didn't have the power to trouble wilder and wilder active enough in rounds to win and use the big Russian as a punchbag. 118-110

Tough tough fight to pick at cruiserweight. Both good world champions but not great. I'd favour Bell to outwork Drozd but both very strong cruisers. 115-113

Kovalev to beat Tarver via knock out. Tarver starts smart behind his jab but Kovalev figures him out and starts taking one to land one.
Knock out round 8

Abraham does enough here to outwork Collins as I feel he'd be the stronger man. He'd switch off in a few rounds as usual but not enough to get Collins the win.
116-112

At his prime at middle Taylor was awesome. Such a shame his prime didn't last long.
He'd fight a similar fight as Cotto but he'd be fresher and bigger. Taylor to win on points.

116-112

Lara avoids Jacksons bombs and fights his way to a Backfoot decision. Probably gets caught on the way though.
117-111

Brook would be slightly to big for Hatton. In s fight of clinches and untidiness Brook edges out a decision
116-112

[Chepppaaa]

What would happen if these champions fought?

Heavyweight - Nikolay Valuev v Deontay Wilder
Cruiserweight - O'Neil Bell v Grigory Drozd
Light-Heavyweight - Antonio Tarver v Sergey Kovalev
Supper Middleweight - Steve Collins v Arthur Abraham
Middleweight - ~Jermain Taylor v Saul Alvarez
Supper Welterweight - Julian Jackson v Erislandy Lara
Welterweight - Ricky Hatton v Kell Brook

wilder, bell, kovalev, abraham, saul, lara, brook would win

[asdfjkl]

Wilder UD12 Valuev - athleticism and speed advantage wins this for Wilder. Actually I think Wilder is a decent chance for a KO seeing as Haye hurt Valuev and Wilder probably hits harder and given his size and reach, would probably land more often than Haye did. Valuev is definitely a puncher's chance though, albeit a slim one.

Valuev has only been slightly dizzy once in his entire carreer and that was just before the end of it, at the age of 37 or something.
You can't take that as his peak.
I still agree Wilder would probably win, he's a lot more fast and would probably win more rounds, but KO? Nah, I don't see that happening at both their peaks. A prime Valuev somehow would be a better opponend as Deontay has ever faced yet.

[crusader]

Wilder UD12 Valuev - athleticism and speed advantage wins this for Wilder. Actually I think Wilder is a decent chance for a KO seeing as Haye hurt Valuev and Wilder probably hits harder and given his size and reach, would probably land more often than Haye did. Valuev is definitely a puncher's chance though, albeit a slim one.

Valuev has only been slightly dizzy once in his entire carreer and that was just before the end of it, at the age of 37 or something.
You can't take that as his peak.
I still agree Wilder would probably win, he's a lot more fast and would probably win more rounds, but KO? Nah, I don't see that happening at both their peaks. A prime Valuev somehow would be a better opponend as Deontay has ever faced yet.

He was hurt and nearly dropped by Ruiz, as well as rocked by Gerald Nobles and J.F. Bergeron. I don't know why so many believe that only Haye hurt him, and I think that Wilder would have the right mix of power and other attributes (including agression...something Haye didn't have) to stop him.

[Wales]

What would happen if these champions fought?

Heavyweight - Nikolay Valuev v Deontay Wilder
Cruiserweight - O'Neil Bell v Grigory Drozd
Light-Heavyweight - Antonio Tarver v Sergey Kovalev
Supper Middleweight - Steve Collins v Arthur Abraham
Middleweight - ~Jermain Taylor v Saul Alvarez
Supper Welterweight - Julian Jackson v Erislandy Lara
Welterweight - Ricky Hatton v Kell Brook

Some real random ones there.... Asking who'd win out of Valuev and Wilder is as random as someone asking "who'd win out of a suicide bomber and a shark"

Valuev Wilder - god knows. Like to think Wilder could out box him to a pts win.
Bell v Drozd - no idea
Kovalev beats Tarver. Dont rate Tarver never have. When was his prime? Decent win over Montell Griffin. Forget Jones Jnr fights as only an idiot doesnt see that Jones dropping 20lbs after Ruiz finished his career then he loses to hopkins and twice to chad dawson. Never has there been a more apt boxing "nickname" than "Bad" Chad Dawson.Kovalev beats Tarver. Dont rate Tarver never have. When was his prime? Decent win over Montell Griffin. Forget Jones Jnr fights as only an idiot doesnt see that Jones dropping 20lbs after Ruiz finished his career then he loses to hopkins and twice to chad dawson. Never has there been a more apt boxing "nickname" than "Bad" Chad Dawson.
Collins beats Abraham on pts. Hands down. Abraham another one that hasnt reallly beaten anyone of any real note. Taylor was done by their bout.
Taylor Alvarez - most interesting one on the list. Tough to call as Canelo is only 25, so should still be improving. Prime Taylor would outpoint this current Canelo, i think.
Jackson beats Lara. Dont know if Lara would stand up to JJs power.
Hatton was a career light Welter. lost every welter fight he had. Brook should pick him off. Brook needs big fights to prove himself - at leasr ricky fought the best

I think you're underrating Tarver and Dawson here. Firstly keep in mind that Tarver was always HUGE for light heavyweight - the guy has walked around at 220lb for most of his career. By the time he fought Dawson he was 40 and I believe making 175lb was definitely having a negative effect on his performances. Tarver isn't the most naturally gifted guy, but he's a very good technical boxer, though he was outboxed by a master at his best in Bernard Hopkins - again, I think the fact that Hopkins was fresh at 175lb, while Tarver was heavily drained made that fight more one-sided that it might have otherwise been.

Chad Dawson WAS a very good boxer, never strong-chinned, but very skilled - keep in mind he outboxed, rather than outslugged Bernard Hopkins, which even at his advanced age is impressive. His win over the very strong, though weight-drained, Adamek was impressive too - Dawson clearly outboxed him too. Losing to Ward is no shame, especially considering Dawson was weight-drained. Since that fight he hasn't been the same, though I think Stevenson would always have been a hard matchup for him.

Agreed - Tarver was 40 when he fought Dawson, but he didnt have a glittering career when he was young, didnt win a world title till he was 36ish. And was the 2006 bernard hopkins "the master at his best"? Coming off two losses at 41 and jumping up 14lbs to fight above 160lbs for the first time ever (essentially). The weight drained comment is fair, but only ever comes up when a fighter loses. Said yourself he walked around at 220 most of his career.

Dawson i just never took to. Pascal gave him a tanking although Dawson was rallying before the clash of heads. Dawson was weight drained against Ward at 168, yet it was him who asked for the fight at 168 in an interview with Kellerman after beating hopkins. He claimed he walked round at 178 and could make 168 easy.

Pretty sure Kovalev beats them both

[Wales]

Not saying Dawson and Tarver were awful fighters in their own short era. Just Kovalev is better. I think