US Boxing Fans Are The Most Narcissistic

[Tomasino]

I did notice in this thread that yet another person who was dumping on a Mayweather's resume was challenged to name someone in the same era with a better resume and did not have an answer.......end.......argument.

I think the OP has a point, though typically his over the top style and misuse of words destroyed his overall credibility. As a boxing fan, it's tiresome sifting through so much negativity about boxing just to find a few insightful posts from thoughtful fans. Why does every fighter suck so much in fans estimation in boxing?? That just doesn't seem to be the case with other sports. We don't have to paint some hyperbolic picture of current fighters as superheroes, but we can enjoy the talent pool that's out there, it's not that bad and it's certainly not decidedly different than in the past.

Take a look at any older fighters record and you will see any number of fights against guys that were not near the top of the division. In reality, guys today fight more contenders because they fight less frequently and do so in front of larger audiences that would not abide by a total mismatch, the kind of mismatches that make Crawford-Lundy look like Ali-Frazier.

But anyone who argues that fights aren't made because of fear of damage to ones reputation is off the mark in my opinion, fighters from a certain part of the world are cowards? Good lord. It's not about legacy or fan perception, it's about the money.

Excellent post

[Lancenix]

I did notice in this thread that yet another person who was dumping on a Mayweather's resume was challenged to name someone in the same era with a better resume and did not have an answer.......end.......argument.

I think the OP has a point, though typically his over the top style and misuse of words destroyed his overall credibility. As a boxing fan, it's tiresome sifting through so much negativity about boxing just to find a few insightful posts from thoughtful fans. Why does every fighter suck so much in fans estimation in boxing?? That just doesn't seem to be the case with other sports. We don't have to paint some hyperbolic picture of current fighters as superheroes, but we can enjoy the talent pool that's out there, it's not that bad and it's certainly not decidedly different than in the past.

Take a look at any older fighters record and you will see any number of fights against guys that were not near the top of the division. In reality, guys today fight more contenders because they fight less frequently and do so in front of larger audiences that would not abide by a total mismatch, the kind of mismatches that make Crawford-Lundy look like Ali-Frazier.

But anyone who argues that fights aren't made because of fear of damage to ones reputation is off the mark in my opinion, fighters from a certain part of the world are cowards? Good lord. It's not about legacy or fan perception, it's about the money.

Excellent post

That was me. His resume is full of holes and is not that great. He lost the first fight to JLC by any objective fan's measure and his place in boxing history will not be what his nuthugging fans hope that it will be. In his biggest fight he and Pacman laid a big turd in the ring. He retired undefeated and so did BJ Flores and Baby Joe Mesi. Congrats.

[jas80s]

I did notice in this thread that yet another person who was dumping on a Mayweather's resume was challenged to name someone in the same era with a better resume and did not have an answer.......end.......argument.

I think the OP has a point, though typically his over the top style and misuse of words destroyed his overall credibility. As a boxing fan, it's tiresome sifting through so much negativity about boxing just to find a few insightful posts from thoughtful fans. Why does every fighter suck so much in fans estimation in boxing?? That just doesn't seem to be the case with other sports. We don't have to paint some hyperbolic picture of current fighters as superheroes, but we can enjoy the talent pool that's out there, it's not that bad and it's certainly not decidedly different than in the past.

Take a look at any older fighters record and you will see any number of fights against guys that were not near the top of the division. In reality, guys today fight more contenders because they fight less frequently and do so in front of larger audiences that would not abide by a total mismatch, the kind of mismatches that make Crawford-Lundy look like Ali-Frazier.

But anyone who argues that fights aren't made because of fear of damage to ones reputation is off the mark in my opinion, fighters from a certain part of the world are cowards? Good lord. It's not about legacy or fan perception, it's about the money.

Excellent post

That was me. His resume is full of holes and is not that great. He lost the first fight to JLC by any objective fan's measure and his place in boxing history will not be what his nuthugging fans hope that it will be. In his biggest fight he and Pacman laid a big turd in the ring. He retired undefeated and so did BJ Flores and Baby Joe Mesi. Congrats.

You are entitled to your opinion, but seeing Floyd Mayweather's career as different than that of BJ Flores or Joe Mesi is not what I would call nuthugging. Comparing his body of work in the ring to those guys is what I would call "hating". But of course, that is just MY opinion.

And I still didn't see a fighter with a better resume.

Agree that they were BOTH awful when he fought Pacquiao. He won farily easily in my estimation, but I was frankly a little mystified when many of his fans tried to paint it as some kind of masterful performance. He rather carefully "outboxed" a smaller, not terribly active, man; precisely what he should have been able to do.

[Tanzio]

I did notice in this thread that yet another person who was dumping on a Mayweather's resume was challenged to name someone in the same era with a better resume and did not have an answer.......end.......argument.

I think the OP has a point, though typically his over the top style and misuse of words destroyed his overall credibility. As a boxing fan, it's tiresome sifting through so much negativity about boxing just to find a few insightful posts from thoughtful fans. Why does every fighter suck so much in fans estimation in boxing?? That just doesn't seem to be the case with other sports. We don't have to paint some hyperbolic picture of current fighters as superheroes, but we can enjoy the talent pool that's out there, it's not that bad and it's certainly not decidedly different than in the past.

Take a look at any older fighters record and you will see any number of fights against guys that were not near the top of the division. In reality, guys today fight more contenders because they fight less frequently and do so in front of larger audiences that would not abide by a total mismatch, the kind of mismatches that make Crawford-Lundy look like Ali-Frazier.

But anyone who argues that fights aren't made because of fear of damage to ones reputation is off the mark in my opinion, fighters from a certain part of the world are cowards? Good lord. It's not about legacy or fan perception, it's about the money.

Excellent post

That was me. His resume is full of holes and is not that great. He lost the first fight to JLC by any objective fan's measure and his place in boxing history will not be what his nuthugging fans hope that it will be. In his biggest fight he and Pacman laid a big turd in the ring. He retired undefeated and so did BJ Flores and Baby Joe Mesi. Congrats.

You are entitled to your opinion, but seeing Floyd Mayweather's career as different than that of BJ Flores or Joe Mesi is not what I would call nuthugging. Comparing his body of work in the ring to those guys is what I would call "hating". But of course, that is just MY opinion.

And I still didn't see a fighter with a better resume.

Agree that they were BOTH awful when he fought Pacquiao. He won farily easily in my estimation, but I was frankly a little mystified when many of his fans tried to paint it as some kind of masterful performance. He rather carefully "outboxed" a smaller, not terribly active, man; precisely what he should have been able to do.

I sincerely appreciate your balanced posts and your non-confrontational tone.

While I understand your position on FMJ's body of work, there is more to a legacy than just the names residing on it. Timing must be considered. FMJ made the timing of when he fought the names on his resume an art form.

Sure, FMJ made JMM look silly, but when did he fight him and under what circumstances? JMM had not even fought at 140 yet. FMJ did not make the contracted weight.

Yes, FMJ fought SSM, but when did he do it? What were the circumstances? SSM had been considered done prior to his victory over Cheato, under very strange circumstances. Then SSM was inactive for nearly a year and a half prior to the FMJ fight.

Absolutely, FMJ humbled GingerHead, but when did he do it and under what circumstances? GingerHead was still just green enough, and had been fighting at 154. FMJ's advantages in gifts, skill and experience were not enough. He had to suck GingerHead down to 152.

No doubt, FMJ fought Pac, but when did it happen and under what circumstances? Pac was far beyond his prime, having been defeated twice, once Planquiaoed v the little guy that FMJ had humiliated more than a half decade before. Pac claims that he was injured in a way that limited his offense. FMJ claimed to know everything going on in Pac's camp. The fight happened (at least) 4 years too late.

That is not to speak of Guerrero, Ortiz, Maidana II, or the Berto swansong.

FMJ was brilliant at risk v reward calculations and collecting names on his resume at their least threatening moment. As I have stated many times, FMJ has made brilliant, risk averse, business decisions. But, Farcenix also has a point.

FMJ's career body of work resembles a rich old lady's wardrobe that has sustained an intense attack by a huge force of moths

[Undefeated49-0]

I sincerely appreciate your balanced posts and your non-confrontational tone.

While I understand your position on FMJ's body of work, there is more to a legacy than just the names residing on it. 1. Timing must be considered. FMJ made the timing of when he fought the names on his resume an art form.

2. Sure, FMJ made JMM look silly, but when did he fight him and under what circumstances? JMM had not even fought at 140 yet. FMJ did not make the contracted weight.

3. Yes, FMJ fought SSM, but when did he do it? What were the circumstances? SSM had been considered done prior to his victory over Cheato, under very strange circumstances. Then SSM was inactive for nearly a year and a half prior to the FMJ fight.

4. Absolutely, FMJ humbled GingerHead, but when did he do it and under what circumstances? GingerHead was still just green enough, and had been fighting at 154. FMJ's advantages in gifts, skill and experience were not enough. He had to suck GingerHead down to 152.

5. No doubt, FMJ fought Pac, but when did it happen and under what circumstances? Pac was far beyond his prime, having been defeated twice, once Planquiaoed v the little guy that FMJ had humiliated more than a half decade before. Pac claims that he was injured in a way that limited his offense. FMJ claimed to know everything going on in Pac's camp. The fight happened (at least) 4 years too late.

That is not to speak of Guerrero, Ortiz, Maidana II, or the Berto swansong.

5. FMJ was brilliant at risk v reward calculations and collecting names on his resume at their least threatening moment. As I have stated many times, FMJ has made brilliant, risk averse, business decisions. But, Farcenix also has a point.

FMJ's career body of work resembles a rich old lady's wardrobe that has sustained an intense attack by a huge force of moths

1. WTF you talking about timing? You're stating this as though Floyd had control over his entire career, Floyd was under Arum for the vast part of his career when the a couple of fights should've happened didn't. Don't act as though he had a say, we've seen Arum do the same to all of his fighters.

2. The hating you've mentioned earlier is easily spotted in your entire post about FMJ, it's clear as day you have a great disdain for him and are the essence of being the exact same person the OP is talking about, just read the nonsense in your post above.

That same but older, slower JMM KO'd Manny Pacquiao and had already arguably beaten him on three other occasions<<<<talking about Hate. You just come off with excuse after excuse to try and justify your Hateful disdain for Mayweather.

3. So it's Floyd's fought when SSM chose to avoid him when Merchant asked if he wanted Floyd after thrashing Margo?? How quickly do we forget that Floyd called out both Oscar and Shane: Go look for "Who's Ducking Floyd" on YT and then come back here and talk the nonsense you're speaking here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqQAcyKTpUA

Shane had his opportunity to fight Floyd after Margo but he made the infamous "He gotta get his tooth fixed and he's going on vacation and can't think past Monday" excuse so he wouldn't have to face what we saw in how easily Floyd would've beaten him at an even earlier point in his career.

4. Again more excuses about how "green" Canelo (who had just as many fights as Floyd) supposedly was; that same Canelo beat many good fighters prior to facing Floyd and many more afterwards. Tell us how many fights this "GREEN" Canelo had at the time he and Floyd fought?? It's funny how y'all can sit around here and say Canelo is/was "Green" but not say that Wilder (who has less fights and less experience) isn't "green". A bunch of f*cking Hypocrites and yes, I'm coming at you confrontational because your post is full of BS and misplaced disdain.

5. Again you're repeating the same garbage you opened up with in 1 as though Floyd had control over his career and the entire career of others in their regards to whether or not they wanted to face him when they had that opportunity to do so but chose not to.

Your entire post is proof of what Bnov alluded to, it's sad that your hypocrisy has to be exposed here for what it is but you are not really a fan of the sport IMHO if you speak the way you did of FMJ or any fighter for that matter.

I don't particularly like Klitschko but obviously he is or at least was "the Man" of the division and regardless of how well or how poorly he performed he still gets credit from me for continuing to win no matter what the circumstances were or who or when the opponent he fought.

Go play and tell your lies and hateful stories somewhere else because I'm here and this BS will never fly.

[montrealsuper]

Floyd's a protected fraud who would have been KOed at least five times if he wasn't protected by Al Haynon -

[Tanzio]

Floyd's a protected fraud who would have been KOed at least five times if he wasn't protected by Al Haynon -

[punchoutsb]

Again more excuses about how "green" Canelo (who had just as many fights as Floyd) supposedly was; that same Canelo beat many good fighters prior to facing Floyd and many more afterwards. Tell us how many fights this "GREEN" Canelo had at the time he and Floyd fought?? It's funny how y'all can sit around here and say Canelo is/was "Green" but not say that Wilder (who has less fights and less experience) isn't "green". A bunch of f*cking Hypocrites and yes, I'm coming at you confrontational because your post is full of BS and misplaced disdain.

I don't think any amount of seasoning would have prepared Canelo for Floyd, he's just not as good.

But way more goes into experience than number of fights. Canelo would still be green compared to Floyd.

And yes, Wilder is green as you stated, but aside from Wlad there is no one at heavyweight close to being as experienced, seasoned, and talented as Floyd. That's why people expect him to step up his competition.

[Tanzio]

I sincerely appreciate your balanced posts and your non-confrontational tone.

While I understand your position on FMJ's body of work, there is more to a legacy than just the names residing on it. 1. Timing must be considered. FMJ made the timing of when he fought the names on his resume an art form.

2. Sure, FMJ made JMM look silly, but when did he fight him and under what circumstances? JMM had not even fought at 140 yet. FMJ did not make the contracted weight.

3. Yes, FMJ fought SSM, but when did he do it? What were the circumstances? SSM had been considered done prior to his victory over Cheato, under very strange circumstances. Then SSM was inactive for nearly a year and a half prior to the FMJ fight.

4. Absolutely, FMJ humbled GingerHead, but when did he do it and under what circumstances? GingerHead was still just green enough, and had been fighting at 154. FMJ's advantages in gifts, skill and experience were not enough. He had to suck GingerHead down to 152.

5. No doubt, FMJ fought Pac, but when did it happen and under what circumstances? Pac was far beyond his prime, having been defeated twice, once Planquiaoed v the little guy that FMJ had humiliated more than a half decade before. Pac claims that he was injured in a way that limited his offense. FMJ claimed to know everything going on in Pac's camp. The fight happened (at least) 4 years too late.

That is not to speak of Guerrero, Ortiz, Maidana II, or the Berto swansong.

5. FMJ was brilliant at risk v reward calculations and collecting names on his resume at their least threatening moment. As I have stated many times, FMJ has made brilliant, risk averse, business decisions. But, Farcenix also has a point.

FMJ's career body of work resembles a rich old lady's wardrobe that has sustained an intense attack by a huge force of moths

1. WTF you talking about timing? You're stating this as though Floyd had control over his entire career, Floyd was under Arum for the vast part of his career when the a couple of fights should've happened didn't. Don't act as though he had a say, we've seen Arum do the same to all of his fighters.

2. The hating you've mentioned earlier is easily spotted in your entire post about FMJ, it's clear as day you have a great disdain for him and are the essence of being the exact same person the OP is talking about, just read the nonsense in your post above.

That same but older, slower JMM KO'd Manny Pacquiao and had already arguably beaten him on three other occasions<<<<talking about Hate. You just come off with excuse after excuse to try and justify your Hateful disdain for Mayweather.

3. So it's Floyd's fought when SSM chose to avoid him when Merchant asked if he wanted Floyd after thrashing Margo?? How quickly do we forget that Floyd called out both Oscar and Shane: Go look for "Who's Ducking Floyd" on YT and then come back here and talk the nonsense you're speaking here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqQAcyKTpUA

Shane had his opportunity to fight Floyd after Margo but he made the infamous "He gotta get his tooth fixed and he's going on vacation and can't think past Monday" excuse so he wouldn't have to face what we saw in how easily Floyd would've beaten him at an even earlier point in his career.

4. Again more excuses about how "green" Canelo (who had just as many fights as Floyd) supposedly was; that same Canelo beat many good fighters prior to facing Floyd and many more afterwards. Tell us how many fights this "GREEN" Canelo had at the time he and Floyd fought?? It's funny how y'all can sit around here and say Canelo is/was "Green" but not say that Wilder (who has less fights and less experience) isn't "green". A bunch of f*cking Hypocrites and yes, I'm coming at you confrontational because your post is full of BS and misplaced disdain.

5. Again you're repeating the same garbage you opened up with in 1 as though Floyd had control over his career and the entire career of others in their regards to whether or not they wanted to face him when they had that opportunity to do so but chose not to.

Your entire post is proof of what Bnov alluded to, it's sad that your hypocrisy has to be exposed here for what it is but you are not really a fan of the sport IMHO if you speak the way you did of FMJ or any fighter for that matter.

I don't particularly like Klitschko but obviously he is or at least was "the Man" of the division and regardless of how well or how poorly he performed he still gets credit from me for continuing to win no matter what the circumstances were or who or when the opponent he fought.

Go play and tell your lies and hateful stories somewhere else because I'm here and this BS will never fly.

None of the fights I have mentioned were when FMJ was in Arum's stable, turB. I don't hate FMJ. I have repeatedly voiced my respect for his business acumen, his gifts and skillset. I have never favored anyone over FMJ.

FMJ has had more control over his career than any boxer in history, period.

The difference betwixt us, turB, is that I have the capacity to look at FMJ's career objectively. That is not possible from your position in relation to FMJ.

[jas80s]

I sincerely appreciate your balanced posts and your non-confrontational tone.

While I understand your position on FMJ's body of work, there is more to a legacy than just the names residing on it. 1. Timing must be considered. FMJ made the timing of when he fought the names on his resume an art form.

2. Sure, FMJ made JMM look silly, but when did he fight him and under what circumstances? JMM had not even fought at 140 yet. FMJ did not make the contracted weight.

3. Yes, FMJ fought SSM, but when did he do it? What were the circumstances? SSM had been considered done prior to his victory over Cheato, under very strange circumstances. Then SSM was inactive for nearly a year and a half prior to the FMJ fight.

4. Absolutely, FMJ humbled GingerHead, but when did he do it and under what circumstances? GingerHead was still just green enough, and had been fighting at 154. FMJ's advantages in gifts, skill and experience were not enough. He had to suck GingerHead down to 152.

5. No doubt, FMJ fought Pac, but when did it happen and under what circumstances? Pac was far beyond his prime, having been defeated twice, once Planquiaoed v the little guy that FMJ had humiliated more than a half decade before. Pac claims that he was injured in a way that limited his offense. FMJ claimed to know everything going on in Pac's camp. The fight happened (at least) 4 years too late.

That is not to speak of Guerrero, Ortiz, Maidana II, or the Berto swansong.

5. FMJ was brilliant at risk v reward calculations and collecting names on his resume at their least threatening moment. As I have stated many times, FMJ has made brilliant, risk averse, business decisions. But, Farcenix also has a point.

FMJ's career body of work resembles a rich old lady's wardrobe that has sustained an intense attack by a huge force of moths

1. WTF you talking about timing? You're stating this as though Floyd had control over his entire career, Floyd was under Arum for the vast part of his career when the a couple of fights should've happened didn't. Don't act as though he had a say, we've seen Arum do the same to all of his fighters.

2. The hating you've mentioned earlier is easily spotted in your entire post about FMJ, it's clear as day you have a great disdain for him and are the essence of being the exact same person the OP is talking about, just read the nonsense in your post above.

That same but older, slower JMM KO'd Manny Pacquiao and had already arguably beaten him on three other occasions<<<<talking about Hate. You just come off with excuse after excuse to try and justify your Hateful disdain for Mayweather.

3. So it's Floyd's fought when SSM chose to avoid him when Merchant asked if he wanted Floyd after thrashing Margo?? How quickly do we forget that Floyd called out both Oscar and Shane: Go look for "Who's Ducking Floyd" on YT and then come back here and talk the nonsense you're speaking here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqQAcyKTpUA

Shane had his opportunity to fight Floyd after Margo but he made the infamous "He gotta get his tooth fixed and he's going on vacation and can't think past Monday" excuse so he wouldn't have to face what we saw in how easily Floyd would've beaten him at an even earlier point in his career.

4. Again more excuses about how "green" Canelo (who had just as many fights as Floyd) supposedly was; that same Canelo beat many good fighters prior to facing Floyd and many more afterwards. Tell us how many fights this "GREEN" Canelo had at the time he and Floyd fought?? It's funny how y'all can sit around here and say Canelo is/was "Green" but not say that Wilder (who has less fights and less experience) isn't "green". A bunch of f*cking Hypocrites and yes, I'm coming at you confrontational because your post is full of BS and misplaced disdain.

5. Again you're repeating the same garbage you opened up with in 1 as though Floyd had control over his career and the entire career of others in their regards to whether or not they wanted to face him when they had that opportunity to do so but chose not to.

Your entire post is proof of what Bnov alluded to, it's sad that your hypocrisy has to be exposed here for what it is but you are not really a fan of the sport IMHO if you speak the way you did of FMJ or any fighter for that matter.

I don't particularly like Klitschko but obviously he is or at least was "the Man" of the division and regardless of how well or how poorly he performed he still gets credit from me for continuing to win no matter what the circumstances were or who or when the opponent he fought.

Go play and tell your lies and hateful stories somewhere else because I'm here and this BS will never fly.

Well, this is a vibrant discussion.

Not to straddle the fence, but good points on both sides. I think anyone who thinks that Mayweather didn't pick some spots that produced competitive advantages at times is just not looking hard enough. On the other hand, anyone who thinks that many, many fighters past and present who we all see as great fighters, haven't done the same thing is insane. After all, I think we are all familiar with the well rehearsed argument for how Bob Arum and Co. have managed to maneuver Pacquiao into the same types of competitive advantages during his ascent up to 154 pounds. That just happens to be one of the other great fighters, in the very same era.

And I think the point about Mayweather being blamed for all of it is convenient, but unfair. Seriously, do Top Rank fighters ever fight outside the company? I always chuckle when people talk about the fighters that Mayweather avoided and every name, every time, is a Top Rank fighter, what a coincidence. And then, Cotto leaves Top Rank and amazingly, a fight with Mayweather materializes and what do people say? He waited until Cotto was passed it and then made the fight, no way he can satisfy his naysayers. Perhaps he deserves it because of some of his poor life decisions, or because he willingly wore the black hat in order to make more money, but he is routinely criticized for things that are not entirely his doing or that other fighters do themselves. He got a lot of money, but I guess nothing is free. Whatever, he probably doesn't care.

My take on him is this, you can't dump too much on what he did, he just accomplished too much, and he beat (and often humbled) too many outstanding fighters. Hence, the challenge to name someone who clearly did more so often goes unmet. But, be it entirely his doing or not, his career is missing a Hearns-Leonard type fight. How often did Mayweather get himself into a fight where you honestly thought going in, He may not be able to handle what this guy brings? The closest to it is when he fought Corrales, in my opinion. I think the win over De La Hoya was a great win, but is a great example of how he is perceived, who mentions that fight and doesn't immediately start in with how over the hill De La Hoya was supposedly? For better or worse, there always seems to be a way to diminish what Floyd did in the ring, maybe that will be his legacy.

It's funny, I am not a fan of Mayweather, but I may as well be, I constantly have to defend what he did in the ring because he is reviled by so many fans. I cannot think of another fighter where that is the case.

[Undefeated49-0]

None of the fights I have mentioned were when FMJ was in Arum's stable, turB. I don't hate FMJ. I have repeatedly voiced my respect for his business acumen, his gifts and skillset. I have never favored anyone over FMJ.

FMJ has had more control over his career than any boxer in history, period.

The difference betwixt us, turB, is that I have the capacity to look at FMJ's career objectively. That is not possible from your position in relation to FMJ.

What objectivity have you shown when you repeatedly refer to him having control over his entire career or as though it was his job to make other fighters who were with other promoters face him??

When he was with Top Rank he was not allowed to fight the following:

Oscar, Shane or Cotto! Is that not a fact?? How does that make me not show objectivity when I'm simply reporting the facts??

The following fighters refused to face him when he called them out or tried to make deals for them they used money or other means as an excuse not to face him:

Kostya, Casamayor, Frietas <<<Is that not a fact or me just not being objective?? http://www.thesweetscience.com/article- ... -and-cotto

At the point for which you are claiming that he had control over his career who is it that he did not face that he should've?

Before you answer keep in mind that Paul Williams said "Floyd didn't duck me". https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... 7t+duck+me

Keep in mind that Margarito was with Top Rank and that Baldo was the Lineal Champion and that Floyd asked for the fight with Cotto when he was with TR but Arum said Cotto was "Too Green".

http://www.boxingnews24.com/2010/12/may ... -or-cotto/

Keep in mind that Roach openly said it was "Manny's fault" the fight didn't happen 5 years ago!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUs8yAS_qTs

Please show us who is it that he didn't fight when he had control over his career (as you put it) that he should've fought??

So I'm here reporting the facts and you confuse those facts with a lack of objectivity?? Where is the proof of anything you alluded to?

We're waiting..................................................................

[Tanzio]

I sincerely appreciate your balanced posts and your non-confrontational tone.

While I understand your position on FMJ's body of work, there is more to a legacy than just the names residing on it. 1. Timing must be considered. FMJ made the timing of when he fought the names on his resume an art form.

2. Sure, FMJ made JMM look silly, but when did he fight him and under what circumstances? JMM had not even fought at 140 yet. FMJ did not make the contracted weight.

3. Yes, FMJ fought SSM, but when did he do it? What were the circumstances? SSM had been considered done prior to his victory over Cheato, under very strange circumstances. Then SSM was inactive for nearly a year and a half prior to the FMJ fight.

4. Absolutely, FMJ humbled GingerHead, but when did he do it and under what circumstances? GingerHead was still just green enough, and had been fighting at 154. FMJ's advantages in gifts, skill and experience were not enough. He had to suck GingerHead down to 152.

5. No doubt, FMJ fought Pac, but when did it happen and under what circumstances? Pac was far beyond his prime, having been defeated twice, once Planquiaoed v the little guy that FMJ had humiliated more than a half decade before. Pac claims that he was injured in a way that limited his offense. FMJ claimed to know everything going on in Pac's camp. The fight happened (at least) 4 years too late.

That is not to speak of Guerrero, Ortiz, Maidana II, or the Berto swansong.

5. FMJ was brilliant at risk v reward calculations and collecting names on his resume at their least threatening moment. As I have stated many times, FMJ has made brilliant, risk averse, business decisions. But, Farcenix also has a point.

FMJ's career body of work resembles a rich old lady's wardrobe that has sustained an intense attack by a huge force of moths

1. WTF you talking about timing? You're stating this as though Floyd had control over his entire career, Floyd was under Arum for the vast part of his career when the a couple of fights should've happened didn't. Don't act as though he had a say, we've seen Arum do the same to all of his fighters.

2. The hating you've mentioned earlier is easily spotted in your entire post about FMJ, it's clear as day you have a great disdain for him and are the essence of being the exact same person the OP is talking about, just read the nonsense in your post above.

That same but older, slower JMM KO'd Manny Pacquiao and had already arguably beaten him on three other occasions<<<<talking about Hate. You just come off with excuse after excuse to try and justify your Hateful disdain for Mayweather.

3. So it's Floyd's fought when SSM chose to avoid him when Merchant asked if he wanted Floyd after thrashing Margo?? How quickly do we forget that Floyd called out both Oscar and Shane: Go look for "Who's Ducking Floyd" on YT and then come back here and talk the nonsense you're speaking here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqQAcyKTpUA

Shane had his opportunity to fight Floyd after Margo but he made the infamous "He gotta get his tooth fixed and he's going on vacation and can't think past Monday" excuse so he wouldn't have to face what we saw in how easily Floyd would've beaten him at an even earlier point in his career.

4. Again more excuses about how "green" Canelo (who had just as many fights as Floyd) supposedly was; that same Canelo beat many good fighters prior to facing Floyd and many more afterwards. Tell us how many fights this "GREEN" Canelo had at the time he and Floyd fought?? It's funny how y'all can sit around here and say Canelo is/was "Green" but not say that Wilder (who has less fights and less experience) isn't "green". A bunch of f*cking Hypocrites and yes, I'm coming at you confrontational because your post is full of BS and misplaced disdain.

5. Again you're repeating the same garbage you opened up with in 1 as though Floyd had control over his career and the entire career of others in their regards to whether or not they wanted to face him when they had that opportunity to do so but chose not to.

Your entire post is proof of what Bnov alluded to, it's sad that your hypocrisy has to be exposed here for what it is but you are not really a fan of the sport IMHO if you speak the way you did of FMJ or any fighter for that matter.

I don't particularly like Klitschko but obviously he is or at least was "the Man" of the division and regardless of how well or how poorly he performed he still gets credit from me for continuing to win no matter what the circumstances were or who or when the opponent he fought.

Go play and tell your lies and hateful stories somewhere else because I'm here and this BS will never fly.

Well, this is a vibrant discussion.

Not to straddle the fence, but good points on both sides. I think anyone who thinks that Mayweather didn't pick some spots that produced competitive advantages at times is just not looking hard enough. On the other hand, anyone who thinks that many, many fighters past and present who we all see as great fighters, haven't done the same thing is insane. After all, I think we are all familiar with the well rehearsed argument for how Bob Arum and Co. have managed to maneuver Pacquiao into the same types of competitive advantages during his ascent up to 154 pounds. That just happens to be one of the other great fighters, in the very same era.

And I think the point about Mayweather being blamed for all of it is convenient, but unfair. Seriously, do Top Rank fighters ever fight outside the company? I always chuckle when people talk about the fighters that Mayweather avoided and every name, every time, is a Top Rank fighter, what a coincidence. And then, Cotto leaves Top Rank and amazingly, a fight with Mayweather materializes and what do people say? He waited until Cotto was passed it and then made the fight, no way he can satisfy his naysayers. Perhaps he deserves it because of some of his poor life decisions, or because he willingly wore the black hat in order to make more money, but he is routinely criticized for things that are not entirely his doing or that other fighters do themselves. He got a lot of money, but I guess nothing is free. Whatever, he probably doesn't care.

My take on him is this, you can't dump too much on what he did, he just accomplished too much, and he beat (and often humbled) too many outstanding fighters. Hence, the challenge to name someone who clearly did more so often goes unmet. But, be it entirely his doing or not, his career is missing a Hearns-Leonard type fight. How often did Mayweather get himself into a fight where you honestly thought going in, He may not be able to handle what this guy brings? The closest to it is when he fought Corrales, in my opinion. I think the win over De La Hoya was a great win, but is a great example of how he is perceived, who mentions that fight and doesn't immediately start in with how over the hill De La Hoya was supposedly? For better or worse, there always seems to be a way to diminish what Floyd did in the ring, maybe that will be his legacy.

It's funny, I am not a fan of Mayweather, but I may as well be, I constantly have to defend what he did in the ring because he is reviled by so many fans. I cannot think of another fighter where that is the case.

Excellent take.

First of all, I don't revile FMJ. Secondly, I do not blame him exclusively for everything.

That said, he did not seek out the greatest challenges. That is clear, even given the fact that no current fighter compares to his list of opponents, in the welter weight division. Overall, multiple fighters compare well, beginning with Pac, who certainly can be accused of some risk averse matches himself, although he was in far less control of his destiny.

GingerHead is well on his way to surpassing FMJ's list of opponents. FMJ never fought Lara or Trout or Khan or anyone remotely on His own level. If GingerHead makes good on facing 3G, he will have surpassed any challenge that FMJ ever faced x at least 3, before being in shouting distance of 30.

I'm sure that there are excuses why FMJ has not faced Lara, etc., but it is a fact that he has chosen not to challenge himself on an SRL, Hitman, Duran, or even a Wilfred Benitez level.

Yes, he has a decent resume, but he doesn't have a resume to match his talents, by a longshot.

Again, I would not favor any of the people that he did not face from 152 down to beat him. That does not change the fact that he did not take the toughest challenges and the best names he has on his list were not at prime.

[Tanzio]

None of the fights I have mentioned were when FMJ was in Arum's stable, turB. I don't hate FMJ. I have repeatedly voiced my respect for his business acumen, his gifts and skillset. I have never favored anyone over FMJ.

FMJ has had more control over his career than any boxer in history, period.

The difference betwixt us, turB, is that I have the capacity to look at FMJ's career objectively. That is not possible from your position in relation to FMJ.

What objectivity have you shown when you repeatedly refer to him having control over his entire career or as though it was his job to make other fighters who were with other promoters face him??

When he was with Top Rank he was not allowed to fight the following:

Oscar, Shane or Cotto! Is that not a fact?? How does that make me not show objectivity when I'm simply reporting the facts??

The following fighters refused to face him when he called them out or tried to make deals for them they used money or other means as an excuse not to face him:

Kostya, Casamayor, Frietas <<<Is that not a fact or me just not being objective?? http://www.thesweetscience.com/article- ... -and-cotto

At the point for which you are claiming that he had control over his career who is it that he did not face that he should've?

Before you answer keep in mind that Paul Williams said "Floyd didn't duck me". https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... 7t+duck+me

Keep in mind that Margarito was with Top Rank and that Baldo was the Lineal Champion and that Floyd asked for the fight with Cotto when he was with TR but Arum said Cotto was "Too Green".

http://www.boxingnews24.com/2010/12/may ... -or-cotto/

Keep in mind that Roach openly said it was "Manny's fault" the fight didn't happen 5 years ago!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUs8yAS_qTs

Please show us who is it that he didn't fight when he had control over his career (as you put it) that he should've fought??

So I'm here reporting the facts and you confuse those facts with a lack of objectivity?? Where is the proof of anything you alluded to?

We're waiting..................................................................

I never said that FMJ had total control of his entire career. Go back and read it again, turB, and try to digest it.

Let's get it straight, turB, anyone who labels himself "Undefeated 49-0" has serious credibility problems in this discussion.

Lara, Khan, Trout, Ramming Speed, Brook, Sometimes, Porter, etc. That is a current list off the top of my head.

I've never been overly critical of what he did prior to retirement I.

I'm not interested in another back and forth with you on the subject, turB. I know your position and you know mine. I don't worship FMJ. You have proven over and over and over again that you do literally worship him.

My overall opinion of FMJ has evolved and may continue to with new information and objective discussion. You lack the capacity to provide either.

[Undefeated49-0]

I never said that FMJ had total control of his entire career. Go back and read it again, turB, and try to digest it.

Let's get it straight, turB, anyone who labels himself "Undefeated 49-0" has serious credibility problems in this discussion.

Lara, Khan, Trout, Ramming Speed, Brook, Sometimes, Porter, etc. That is a current list off the top of my head.

I've never been overly critical of what he did prior to retirement I.

I'm not interested in another back and forth with you on the subject, turB. I know your position and you know mine. I don't worship FMJ. You have proven over and over and over again that you do literally worship him.

My overall opinion of FMJ has evolved and may continue to with new information and objective discussion. You lack the capacity to provide either.

You said this: Timing must be considered. FMJ made the timing of when he fought the names on his resume an art form.

That alone is suggesting that he had control over when and who fought him.

You also said this: FMJ fought Pac, but when did it happen and under what circumstances? Pac was far beyond his prime,

Again you go off making it appear that Floyd had the right to tell Arum when to make the fight with Manny and Floyd when the reality has already been proven and provided for you.

You also said this: FMJ was brilliant at risk v reward calculations and collecting names on his resume at their least threatening moment

Again you're suggesting that he had a say over when and who he fought throughout his entire career since you never specified a certain fighter.

You said this: FMJ has had more control over his career than any boxer in history

Notice and focus on your use of the word "CAREER"!!

That suggests you are referencing his entire time in the fight game, not one specific point or a set of years, months, days or hours but the ENTIRE time he was in the sport.

It appears once again that I have exposed your lies and hypocrisy not to mention all the other venom and BS you spewed out of your own personal dislike for the man.

The thing that makes me not respect the way you come off is that you are a coward, if I don't like a certain fighter then I just say so but you hide behind your comment of "I don't dislike this man or that man" but your commentary tells a completely different story.

I dislike Klitschko (not in a personal sense) but because he isn't a real Boxer in my opinion, he throws a shot and then holds, he never makes any adjustments, not particularly good on defense and bores the living sh*t outta me.

If you don't like Floyd then say so and that's ok but to spew the vomit you threw up here with all the BS and lies I've already exposed and then you go on trying to say you didn't say this or that just makes you come off as more of a Coward.

It's obvious to us all here that you don't like the man and you won't be the first and that's ok but stop being a little chicken about it because we can clearly see and feel your vibe.

[Counter-puncher]

[Tanzio]

I never said that FMJ had total control of his entire career. Go back and read it again, turB, and try to digest it.

Let's get it straight, turB, anyone who labels himself "Undefeated 49-0" has serious credibility problems in this discussion.

Lara, Khan, Trout, Ramming Speed, Brook, Sometimes, Porter, etc. That is a current list off the top of my head.

I've never been overly critical of what he did prior to retirement I.

I'm not interested in another back and forth with you on the subject, turB. I know your position and you know mine. I don't worship FMJ. You have proven over and over and over again that you do literally worship him.

My overall opinion of FMJ has evolved and may continue to with new information and objective discussion. You lack the capacity to provide either.

You said this: Timing must be considered. FMJ made the timing of when he fought the names on his resume an art form.

That alone is suggesting that he had control over when and who fought him.

You also said this: FMJ fought Pac, but when did it happen and under what circumstances? Pac was far beyond his prime,

Again you go off making it appear that Floyd had the right to tell Arum when to make the fight with Manny and Floyd when the reality has already been proven and provided for you.

You also said this: FMJ was brilliant at risk v reward calculations and collecting names on his resume at their least threatening moment

Again you're suggesting that he had a say over when and who he fought throughout his entire career since you never specified a certain fighter.

You said this: FMJ has had more control over his career than any boxer in history

Notice and focus on your use of the word "CAREER"!!

That suggests you are referencing his entire time in the fight game, not one specific point or a set of years, months, days or hours but the ENTIRE time he was in the sport.

It appears once again that I have exposed your lies and hypocrisy not to mention all the other venom and BS you spewed out of your own personal dislike for the man.

The thing that makes me not respect the way you come off is that you are a coward, if I don't like a certain fighter then I just say so but you hide behind your comment of "I don't dislike this man or that man" but your commentary tells a completely different story.

I dislike Klitschko (not in a personal sense) but because he isn't a real Boxer in my opinion, he throws a shot and then holds, he never makes any adjustments, not particularly good on defense and bores the living sh*t outta me.

If you don't like Floyd then say so and that's ok but to spew the vomit you threw up here with all the BS and lies I've already exposed and then you go on trying to say you didn't say this or that just makes you come off as more of a Coward.

It's obvious to us all here that you don't like the man and you won't be the first and that's ok but stop being a little chicken about it because we can clearly see and feel your vibe.

I meant exactly what I said about FMJ having more control over his career than any boxer in history, turB. What that means, exactly, is that IMO no other fighter has had more control over his career. The fact that he was controlled by Arum for a significant portion of his career illustrates how little control other boxers have had over their careers, not that I think that FMJ made all of his boxing decisions while contracted with TopStank.

I said I don't hate FMJ. That is not meant to imply that I am in mad, obsessive love with the man. But, I have repeatedly, yawn, over and over stated my respect for his business sense, skills and gifts.

And then, yet again, another pathetic punk accuses me of being a coward due to my opinion. Go back to babysitting you paranoid, schizoid, brain dead, shadow shirking, under accomplished bag of sh!t.

[Lancenix]

I did notice in this thread that yet another person who was dumping on a Mayweather's resume was challenged to name someone in the same era with a better resume and did not have an answer.......end.......argument.

I think the OP has a point, though typically his over the top style and misuse of words destroyed his overall credibility. As a boxing fan, it's tiresome sifting through so much negativity about boxing just to find a few insightful posts from thoughtful fans. Why does every fighter suck so much in fans estimation in boxing?? That just doesn't seem to be the case with other sports. We don't have to paint some hyperbolic picture of current fighters as superheroes, but we can enjoy the talent pool that's out there, it's not that bad and it's certainly not decidedly different than in the past.

Take a look at any older fighters record and you will see any number of fights against guys that were not near the top of the division. In reality, guys today fight more contenders because they fight less frequently and do so in front of larger audiences that would not abide by a total mismatch, the kind of mismatches that make Crawford-Lundy look like Ali-Frazier.

But anyone who argues that fights aren't made because of fear of damage to ones reputation is off the mark in my opinion, fighters from a certain part of the world are cowards? Good lord. It's not about legacy or fan perception, it's about the money.

That was me. His resume is full of holes and is not that great. He lost the first fight to JLC by any objective fan's measure and his place in boxing history will not be what his nuthugging fans hope that it will be. In his biggest fight he and Pacman laid a big turd in the ring. He retired undefeated and so did BJ Flores and Baby Joe Mesi. Congrats.

You are entitled to your opinion, but seeing Floyd Mayweather's career as different than that of BJ Flores or Joe Mesi is not what I would call nuthugging. Comparing his body of work in the ring to those guys is what I would call "hating". But of course, that is just MY opinion.

And I still didn't see a fighter with a better resume.

Agree that they were BOTH awful when he fought Pacquiao. He won farily easily in my estimation, but I was frankly a little mystified when many of his fans tried to paint it as some kind of masterful performance. He rather carefully "outboxed" a smaller, not terribly active, man; precisely what he should have been able to do.

I sincerely appreciate your balanced posts and your non-confrontational tone.

While I understand your position on FMJ's body of work, there is more to a legacy than just the names residing on it. Timing must be considered. FMJ made the timing of when he fought the names on his resume an art form.

Sure, FMJ made JMM look silly, but when did he fight him and under what circumstances? JMM had not even fought at 140 yet. FMJ did not make the contracted weight.

Yes, FMJ fought SSM, but when did he do it? What were the circumstances? SSM had been considered done prior to his victory over Cheato, under very strange circumstances. Then SSM was inactive for nearly a year and a half prior to the FMJ fight.

Absolutely, FMJ humbled GingerHead, but when did he do it and under what circumstances? GingerHead was still just green enough, and had been fighting at 154. FMJ's advantages in gifts, skill and experience were not enough. He had to suck GingerHead down to 152.

No doubt, FMJ fought Pac, but when did it happen and under what circumstances? Pac was far beyond his prime, having been defeated twice, once Planquiaoed v the little guy that FMJ had humiliated more than a half decade before. Pac claims that he was injured in a way that limited his offense. FMJ claimed to know everything going on in Pac's camp. The fight happened (at least) 4 years too late.

That is not to speak of Guerrero, Ortiz, Maidana II, or the Berto swansong.

FMJ was brilliant at risk v reward calculations and collecting names on his resume at their least threatening moment. As I have stated many times, FMJ has made brilliant, risk averse, business decisions. But, Farcenix also has a point.

FMJ's career body of work resembles a rich old lady's wardrobe that has sustained an intense attack by a huge force of moths

That was really well written.

[Undefeated49-0]

I meant exactly what I said about FMJ having more control over his career than any boxer in history, turB. What that means, exactly, is that IMO no other fighter has had more control over his career. The fact that he was controlled by Arum for a significant portion of his career illustrates how little control other boxers have had over their careers, not that I think that FMJ made all of his boxing decisions while contracted with TopStank.

I said I don't hate FMJ. That is not meant to imply that I am in mad, obsessive love with the man. But, I have repeatedly, yawn, over and over stated my respect for his business sense, skills and gifts.

And then, yet again, another pathetic punk accuses me of being a coward due to my opinion. Go back to babysitting you paranoid, schizoid, brain dead, shadow shirking, under accomplished bag of sh!t.

Coming from a coward hiding behind the safety of his computer in his boyfriend's trailer park. You're just mad because i exposed your BS and lies and called you a chickensh*t coward of which you are.

You did nothing to exonerate your Lies and BS, you just turned to insults because that's what you do when your fake @$$ has been exposed. I'm certain I've achieved more than you have in this lifetime turd. Go play with yourself.

[jas80s]

Excellent take.

First of all, I don't revile FMJ. Secondly, I do not blame him exclusively for everything.

That said, he did not seek out the greatest challenges. That is clear, even given the fact that no current fighter compares to his list of opponents, in the welter weight division. Overall, multiple fighters compare well, beginning with Pac, who certainly can be accused of some risk averse matches himself, although he was in far less control of his destiny.

GingerHead is well on his way to surpassing FMJ's list of opponents. FMJ never fought Lara or Trout or Khan or anyone remotely on His own level. If GingerHead makes good on facing 3G, he will have surpassed any challenge that FMJ ever faced x at least 3, before being in shouting distance of 30.

I'm sure that there are excuses why FMJ has not faced Lara, etc., but it is a fact that he has chosen not to challenge himself on an SRL, Hitman, Duran, or even a Wilfred Benitez level.

Yes, he has a decent resume, but he doesn't have a resume to match his talents, by a longshot.

Again, I would not favor any of the people that he did not face from 152 down to beat him. That does not change the fact that he did not take the toughest challenges and the best names he has on his list were not at prime.[/quote]

What I find funny is that, despite being a somewhat polarizing figure, ironically, I think most dispassionate boxing fans come down around the same place on Mayweather. Pretty much what we have said here, very good resume but probably missing a little something that might elevate it, and him, to a transcendant fighter type status. There is probably a little wiggle room, I probably rate him a little higher than you do, but in the end, we really end up talking about the same stuff and as I say, I think most fans are in about the same place. I think it is only when we hone in too much on one aspect (timing of fights, ducking of this guy or that guy) that the discussion goes off the rails because then credit is not being given to that which has been accomplished and how few others can really demonstrate a comparable body of work in terms of opponents AND performance against them. I mean, how many fighters really tracked down everybody we wanted to see them in there with? And, on top of that, when we wanted them to face them? That's a pretty brutal standard.

Jack Johnson would not fight Sam Langford or many other qualified black fighters for the title
Charley Burley spent years trying to get a fight with Ray Robinson (and never did)
Ray Leonard would not fight Aaron Pryor

And of course it goes on, but you get my point I am sure.

I am impressed with Canelo's resume, any guy willing to fight the likes of Trout and Lara, and Mayweather for that matter, is a guy you have to respect. I agree that he is well on his way to a truly great ledger, he will not retire undefeated, but he has walked the walk. Pacquiao does have a great resume as well, though I am not over the moon about what he did once he started moving up. De La Hoya was in no condition to fight, and Hatton truly was a shot fighter (and I really try not to throw that phrase around). Of course, there were good wins in there as well that showed how special a talent he was and his career at 135 and below is pretty legendary. In any event, overall he is clearly there as well, but after that? I mean, it gets really difficult, great careers are pretty rare.

[Tanzio]

I meant exactly what I said about FMJ having more control over his career than any boxer in history, turB. What that means, exactly, is that IMO no other fighter has had more control over his career. The fact that he was controlled by Arum for a significant portion of his career illustrates how little control other boxers have had over their careers, not that I think that FMJ made all of his boxing decisions while contracted with TopStank.

I said I don't hate FMJ. That is not meant to imply that I am in mad, obsessive love with the man. But, I have repeatedly, yawn, over and over stated my respect for his business sense, skills and gifts.

And then, yet again, another pathetic punk accuses me of being a coward due to my opinion. Go back to babysitting you paranoid, schizoid, brain dead, shadow shirking, under accomplished bag of sh!t.

Coming from a coward hiding behind the safety of his computer in his boyfriend's trailer park. You're just mad because i exposed your BS and lies and called you a chickensh*t coward of which you are.

You did nothing to exonerate your Lies and BS, you just turned to insults because that's what you do when your fake @$$ has been exposed. I'm certain I've achieved more than you have in this lifetime turd. Go play with yourself.

Predictable much? Now I'm angry? Anytime you will be challenging me to compare W2s. After that it will be a challenge to a boxing match or a dual or some other pathetic sh!t. Then you will probably post a photo of the kids you are babysitting holding a cardboard sign that says "we love 'Undefeated 49-0'" (with a smaller message, almost unnoticeable, that says "HELP US!" In a corner). Next you will treat us to links and screen shots about a myriad of conspiracy theories about everything from the Illuminati to why Arum is a cockroach from Mars sent to ruin FMJ's legacy.

Explain again why it was ok for your mad love to end his career fighting Berto instead of Brook or Sometimes or Ramming Speed or Lara or Porter, etc. Go ahead, treat us to that buddy fight line of pure horseshit.

Go ahead and rationalize the farce that was FMJ v Pac. You know the fight that Pac was denied pain meds for an injury that he claims affected his offensive capabilities. Remember, the fight that Team FMJ claimed that they knew everything that happened in Pac's camp. Yes, that fight, the one where FMJ was busted for breaking rehydrating rules.

Then, give us your normal line on why FMJ took the easy road with a rematch with the game but limited Maidana instead of the long list of deserving and more challenging fighters listed above.

Repeat for us why FMJ found it necessary to drain GingerHead down to 152 for a 154 title. Why, again, would he not defend that asterisked belt v Lara?

Forget it. We've been over all of this 100 times. Let's summarize. According to you FMJ faced the toughest challenges his whole career. According to you he had no choice but to do exactly what he did. According to you, anyone who is critical of FMJ is a cowardly hater.

Yes, turB, we have heard it all before. Now go back to your babysitting job, and running from your own shadow

[Undefeated49-0]

Predictable much? Now I'm angry? Anytime you will be challenging me to compare W2s. After that it will be a challenge to a boxing match or a dual or some other pathetic sh!t. Then you will probably post a photo of the kids you are babysitting holding a cardboard sign that says "we love 'Undefeated 49-0'" (with a smaller message, almost unnoticeable, that says "HELP US!" In a corner). Next you will treat us to links and screen shots about a myriad of conspiracy theories about everything from the Illuminati to why Arum is a cockroach from Mars sent to ruin FMJ's legacy.

Explain again why it was ok for your mad love to end his career fighting Berto instead of Brook or Sometimes or Ramming Speed or Lara or Porter, etc. Go ahead, treat us to that buddy fight line of pure horseshit.

Go ahead and rationalize the farce that was FMJ v Pac. You know the fight that Pac was denied pain meds for an injury that he claims affected his offensive capabilities. Remember, the fight that Team FMJ claimed that they knew everything that happened in Pac's camp. Yes, that fight, the one where FMJ was busted for breaking rehydrating rules.

Then, give us your normal line on why FMJ took the easy road with a rematch with the game but limited Maidana instead of the long list of deserving and more challenging fighters listed above.

Repeat for us why FMJ found it necessary to drain GingerHead down to 152 for a 154 title. Why, again, would he not defend that asterisked belt v Lara?

Forget it. We've been over all of this 100 times. Let's summarize. According to you FMJ faced the toughest challenges his whole career. According to you he had no choice but to do exactly what he did. According to you, anyone who is critical of FMJ is a cowardly hater.

Yes, turB, we have heard it all before. Now go back to your babysitting job, and running from your own shadow

Challenging a lame like you with anything is a total waste of time, like I said, it's clear from the OPs original text that you fit the description of the type of so called "FANS" that represent the sport today.

Not one person here will agree with anything you stated because they can see right through your plastic ass, you're a phony and yes you are a cowardly Hater.

We're done, you've proven nothing and I totally owned your clown ass.

[Wales]

UK just as bad, but with fighters with less talent.

if boxing had 1 belt, 1 promoter, and had best fighting best, there would be no undefeated records.

Unless fighters have less than 10 fights I hate the term "someones 0 must go".

[Pureist]

Predictable much? Now I'm angry? Anytime you will be challenging me to compare W2s. After that it will be a challenge to a boxing match or a dual or some other pathetic sh!t. Then you will probably post a photo of the kids you are babysitting holding a cardboard sign that says "we love 'Undefeated 49-0'" (with a smaller message, almost unnoticeable, that says "HELP US!" In a corner). Next you will treat us to links and screen shots about a myriad of conspiracy theories about everything from the Illuminati to why Arum is a cockroach from Mars sent to ruin FMJ's legacy.

Explain again why it was ok for your mad love to end his career fighting Berto instead of Brook or Sometimes or Ramming Speed or Lara or Porter, etc. Go ahead, treat us to that buddy fight line of pure horseshit.

Go ahead and rationalize the farce that was FMJ v Pac. You know the fight that Pac was denied pain meds for an injury that he claims affected his offensive capabilities. Remember, the fight that Team FMJ claimed that they knew everything that happened in Pac's camp. Yes, that fight, the one where FMJ was busted for breaking rehydrating rules.

Then, give us your normal line on why FMJ took the easy road with a rematch with the game but limited Maidana instead of the long list of deserving and more challenging fighters listed above.

Repeat for us why FMJ found it necessary to drain GingerHead down to 152 for a 154 title. Why, again, would he not defend that asterisked belt v Lara?

Forget it. We've been over all of this 100 times. Let's summarize. According to you FMJ faced the toughest challenges his whole career. According to you he had no choice but to do exactly what he did. According to you, anyone who is critical of FMJ is a cowardly hater.

Yes, turB, we have heard it all before. Now go back to your babysitting job, and running from your own shadow

Challenging a lame like you with anything is a total waste of time, like I said, it's clear from the OPs original text that you fit the description of the type of so called "FANS" that represent the sport today.

Not one person here will agree with anything you stated because they can see right through your plastic ass, you're a phony and yes you are a cowardly Hater.

We're done, you've proven nothing and I totally owned your clown ass.

I agree with him, I would also love to know how many TUEs floyd has clocked up over the duration of his career that have been kept confidential due to contractual agreement, the testosterone results that were released were way out for a clean sportsman so really what kind of legacy has he really built, honest or cheating

[Tanzio]

Predictable much? Now I'm angry? Anytime you will be challenging me to compare W2s. After that it will be a challenge to a boxing match or a dual or some other pathetic sh!t. Then you will probably post a photo of the kids you are babysitting holding a cardboard sign that says "we love 'Undefeated 49-0'" (with a smaller message, almost unnoticeable, that says "HELP US!" In a corner). Next you will treat us to links and screen shots about a myriad of conspiracy theories about everything from the Illuminati to why Arum is a cockroach from Mars sent to ruin FMJ's legacy.

Explain again why it was ok for your mad love to end his career fighting Berto instead of Brook or Sometimes or Ramming Speed or Lara or Porter, etc. Go ahead, treat us to that buddy fight line of pure horseshit.

Go ahead and rationalize the farce that was FMJ v Pac. You know the fight that Pac was denied pain meds for an injury that he claims affected his offensive capabilities. Remember, the fight that Team FMJ claimed that they knew everything that happened in Pac's camp. Yes, that fight, the one where FMJ was busted for breaking rehydrating rules.

Then, give us your normal line on why FMJ took the easy road with a rematch with the game but limited Maidana instead of the long list of deserving and more challenging fighters listed above.

Repeat for us why FMJ found it necessary to drain GingerHead down to 152 for a 154 title. Why, again, would he not defend that asterisked belt v Lara?

Forget it. We've been over all of this 100 times. Let's summarize. According to you FMJ faced the toughest challenges his whole career. According to you he had no choice but to do exactly what he did. According to you, anyone who is critical of FMJ is a cowardly hater.

Yes, turB, we have heard it all before. Now go back to your babysitting job, and running from your own shadow

Challenging a lame like you with anything is a total waste of time, like I said, it's clear from the OPs original text that you fit the description of the type of so called "FANS" that represent the sport today.

Not one person here will agree with anything you stated because they can see right through your plastic ass, you're a phony and yes you are a cowardly Hater.

We're done, you've proven nothing and I totally owned your clown ass.

You don't even own your toilet, you pitiful fool. You have no answers for FMJ's choices. And it doesn't matter. They were his choices to make. He chose a risk averse path, and you know it.

[Undefeated49-0]

You don't even own your toilet, you pitiful fool. You have no answers for FMJ's choices. And it doesn't matter. They were his choices to make. He chose a risk averse path, and you know it.

Really, so it's nice to know that out of all the people on this forum only a dumb ass lame like you consider Pacquiao, Canelo, Mosley, DLH as risk adverse.