Azumah Nelson vs Barry McGuigan

[Neil Gee]

I just caught up on three Azumah Nelson fights on Youtube, versus Sanchez, Gomez & Whittaker https://youtu.be/BUMHQ7OETow https://youtu.be/-kF4WT5kCmMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-q6HDNYUmiA.

For sheer excitement the first two fights are gold dust. Nelson's will to win was unsurpassable, he literally fought until he dropped against Sanchez. I'd seen Nelson's fights against British fighters, the fight with McDonnel was breathtaking, but I'd never checked out some of his other big fights before, and he has gone up in my estimation now.

As a World champion second only to Aaron Pryor for value for money for the fans.

Wonder who would have won if he and McGuigan had ever met?

Also has any one else rediscovered great old fights on the tube?

Any recommendations?

[Counter-puncher]

Alright Neil

On other fights to check out, have a look at two threads, one is 'classic fights I have watched recently' the other 'post your scorecards', there are loads of great recommends on those threads, some famous, some should be famous, they're two really good threads

On nelson, his worst version could probably have some problems with mcguigans workrate but still win, the best Nelson I think holds his own early, starts to dominate middle rounds and knocks mcguigan out late in a good fight. Too classy and bighitting, and too tough for mcguigan to damage with his better moments. Barry would have to work very hard to have his moments and would pay a price for them too.

[Counter-puncher]

I couldn't agree more with your take on Sanchez -Nelson, by the way, utterly insane effort. I've probably seen that fight ten times and it never fails to make me gasp. Given how green nelson was, its as good a go as I've ever seen given to an alltime great by a green challenger, insane insane tenacity.

[Neil Gee]

Thanx for the tip, Counter-puncher: have to say I agree with your assessment of Nelson-McGuigan. I think his (Mcguigan's) team knew it too. That's why the fight never came off.

On Azumah's relatively tame effort against Whittaker, (by the standards of the Sanchez fight it was 'tame', anyway), think he was just out of his league that night and he knew it. You would never think that a fighter of Nelson's spirit would be cowed by sheer skill and yet he looked as if he was, at least until W started to tire in the last few rounds.

Out of interest just watched Whitaker's title losing fight with De La Hoya that came 7 years after he outpointed Nelson and was shocked at how little he had left by then. Where was the razor sharp jab he had tamed Nelson with? It was virtually non-existent by the time he fought De la Hoya and yet he still made it a close fight. The Whitaker that beat Nelson was a fighter among the great Lightweights of all time and Nelson deserves more credit in defeat than De La Hoya does for outpointing the shadow of that great boxer.

[ClivePatrickLyons]

Nelson would have stopped McGuigan in 10/11 rounds after some early fireworks in a competitive fight

[Counter-puncher]

Out of interest just watched Whitaker's title losing fight with De La Hoya that came 7 years after he outpointed Nelson and was shocked at how little he had left by then. Where was the razor sharp jab he had tamed Nelson with? It was virtually non-existent by the time he fought De la Hoya and yet he still made it a close fight. The Whitaker that beat Nelson was a fighter among the great Lightweights of all time and Nelson deserves more credit in defeat than De La Hoya does for outpointing the shadow of that great boxer.

On the nelson - pea fight, I think peas speed and athleticism were just way too much for nelson and I personally think that kind of disadvantage can be the most disheartening for a fighter to overcome. You can offset a guys advantage in power or strength easier IMO and my limited.experience was.that chasing the shadow of a much faster guy, to no avail, is as depressing as it gets in a ring as you just have no answer

Agree.on the lack of jab against DLH, he was able to keep that fight close purely on slipping punches and a very occasional left hand

[Crease]

It's easy forget how talented McGuigan was, he was no slouch. I think people to underestimate Barry when comparing him to other Featherweight greats.

Barry tend to suffer in these comparisons because of his relatively short title reign and his high profile defeat to a just-better-than-average fighter in Steve Cruz.

Had they have fought in a unification contest, clearly Nelson would enter the ring as the favourite.

But i do think that it would have been very competitive if Barry could replicate the intensity and ruggedness of his performance against Pedroza.

McGuigan at his very best could win this.

[cfang]

It's easy forget how talented McGuigan was, he was no slouch. I think people to underestimate Barry when comparing him to other Featherweight greats.

Barry tend to suffer in these comparisons because of his relatively short title reign and his high profile defeat to a just-better-than-average fighter in Steve Cruz.

Had they have fought in a unification contest, clearly Nelson would enter the ring as the favourite.

But i do think that it would have been very competitive if Barry could replicate the intensity and ruggedness of his performance against Pedroza.

McGuigan at his very best could win this.

Im in total agreement with this. Eveyone seems to think Nelson would beat Mcguigan easily but im not so sure. He didn't have a long peak and the troubles with his manager really affected him I think but Mcguigan was a fabulous figher at best and around 84-85 its not impossible to see him winning on pts.

[cfang]

It's easy forget how talented McGuigan was, he was no slouch. I think people to underestimate Barry when comparing him to other Featherweight greats.

Barry tend to suffer in these comparisons because of his relatively short title reign and his high profile defeat to a just-better-than-average fighter in Steve Cruz.

Had they have fought in a unification contest, clearly Nelson would enter the ring as the favourite.

But i do think that it would have been very competitive if Barry could replicate the intensity and ruggedness of his performance against Pedroza.

McGuigan at his very best could win this.

Im in total agreement with this. Eveyone seems to think Nelson would beat Mcguigan easily but im not so sure. He didn't have a long peak and the troubles with his manager really affected him I think but Mcguigan was a fabulous fighter at best and around 84-85 its not impossible to see him winning on pts.

[Neil Gee]

I've long had a theory that McGuigan was guilty of leaving most of his fight in the gym after winning the title. There are a few stories I've heard that Mac didn't know when to rest. Barney Eastwood told a story about having to force him to take a day off training by locking him out of the gym once a week, only to find out later that Mac had secretly had his own key cut and was going in regardless. Also McGuigan himself described going back to the gym later in the evening after he had outpointed Laporte in ten hard rounds, he did a few more rounds with his brother to 'work on something'! Even then (before it began to work against him) I thought that was dedication bordering on mania.

You can get away with that for awhile when you're young, but I think it started to catch up with him after he won the title. Mac looked at his best against Laporte and Pedroza. In all of his defences, win and lose, he looked flat in comparison.

Then he had a break after losing to Cruz and came back looking great again (because he had taken a rest?), for two fights, before it all started to look flat again.

I remember his post fight interview after the first comeback bout, he kept repeating 'I felt so strong in there', as though it amazed him. He was attributing the feeling to moving up to super-feather, but I think it was because he hadn't been back long enough to overtrain.

Seriously, I think overtraining had something to do with BM's demise, but the BM who beat Pedroza would have made it close. Still I would have to pick the Nelson who beat Gomez to be too strong for Mac down the stretch.

Trouble is that at the only time the fight was viable - when they were both champions - Nelson would have won pretty easily.

PS Agree, Counter-puncher, those are probably the most disheartening boxers to face, and Whitaker was exceptional that night.

Luckily I never faced anybody that quick for real, in my own limited experience, but I did spar a few and it was a nightmare. I'll just add that there's nothing worse than when they are so quick you just don't see the punches coming.

[BoxBuzz]

I'm not sure you could find a day, where Nelson wouldn't be favored and likely to beat Barry.

At least in real time, timelines.

[Seamus]

I think the most likely scenario would be Nelson scoring a TKO on cuts probably, after the 10th. Still, at his best, McGuigan has a style to beat anyone, and I could envision another scenario, however unlikely, where McGuigan could win. If Barry comes out showing his hyper active head and and hand movement, and say manages to nail Nelson with a big left hook in the 1st round, the kind where the other guy responds with a look of WOAH I just got tagged ! It might well put Nelson up on his toes and moving and jabbing, but not throwing alot of real power punches. Of course Nelson would probably only fight this way for a few rounds meaning Barry would have to catch him again with something big when he moved back into range. Nelson did on occasion acquiesce to another man's power on the inside, and Barry does have the punch to do it here, and if that could be done I could see him winning on points. Then would come the real nightmare, a rematch with Azumah Nelson.