ROCKY MARCIANO WAS AT LEAST 50-0

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

After his fight against Eperson, he lost as an amateur to Coley Wallace. Some people thought this was a professional loss, and that he was really 49-1.

rocky fought and defeated lee epperson in his first pro bout under the name of rocky mack. the reason he used the name rocky mack was to protect his amatuer status when he went back to the amatuers. the lee epperson match was on st patricks day so rocky thought a irish last name would suit him best plus then his mother wouldnt find out hes fighting. so after defeating lee epperson, he went back to amatuers and dropped 3 decision losses to girad, wallace, and deangelis. one was a robbery to the highly touted 17-0(17) colley wallace in a fight where almost all thought rocky won. then, rocky went back up the pros and resumed his 1-0 career. so rocky did lose 3 fights after having turned proffesional, however they were amatuer bouts.


nat fliescher after rocky retired apparentley went in depth on a search to find if rocky really was 49-0 but he found all of rockys losses to be amatuer losses.



as for rocky having some 4 round bout after retirement, thats about the funniest thing i ever heard. what was his name???

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

Actually, the D'angelis loss was before the Rocky Mack fight.

was it? o ok my bad.

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

rocky50project,


was his 50th a 4 rounder against an opponent names al weill?? or perhaps the opponents name was jim norris?

[JCS]

Its not Marciano who should get praise for his record.. it should be his handlers.

Has a guy ever fought so many past-their-prime big named fighters in order to up their worth so much as Marciano did?

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

Its not Marciano who should get praise for his record.. it should be his handlers.

Has a guy ever fought so many past-their-prime big named fighters in order to up their worth so much as Marciano did?

who was well past there prime? besides joe louis? because jersey joe walcott certainly was not, and neither was archie moore. in fact moore and walcott were at the fighting best when rocky fought them. ezzard charles was only 32 and fought one of the best fights of his career vs rocky. though he was past his prime he was still a very skilled fighter and he was still a very legit dangerous opponent. roland lastarza a highly skilled fighter was only 26, rex layne was only 22, harry kid mathews was only 29. who besides louis was well past there prime? NO ONE



whether u think moore, walcott, charles were past there primes or not, they were still highly skilled great fighters and legite dangerous top contenders.

[barry]

>>>Its not Marciano who should get praise for his record.. it should be his handlers.<<<


Yeah, I recall seeing his handlers actually in the ring scoring the knockouts! 220lbs doesn't mean dick if the boxer just cannot fight and with the increase in size in recent years, there most certainly has not been an increase in talent...actually the very opposite...these tube-bellied patsies of today could be 400 pounds, all muscle and it would not make one bit of difference. Now in some instances size does make a difference, a big difference, but to guys like Louis, Dempsey, Marciano and many others...size was nothing, as they often proved!

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

Rocky fought the best heavyweights out there, but he didn't totally clean up his division. He never faced a top heavyweight in his prime who was a solid 220 pounds. That'll always be a question mark for me, and anyone else who doesn't think that beating Johnny Shkor is equivalent to beating Lennox Lewis.

joe louis was 6'2 214lb. even though he was clearly well past his prime, he was still better than an nino valdes or bob baker even at that stage of his career. and rocky slaughtered joe. and joe louis was not fat, he naturally got bigger in his thirties and it was bulk.. remember, even in joe louis prime in 1942 he was 207lb.

- so the victory over joe louis should count as a win over a skilled big man. i characterize 6'2 214lb as big heavyweight back then. nino valdes was only 208lb lighter than joe louis.


who cares how old and gone louis was. the 1951 joe louis was still a better fighter than valdes, or baker.





as for rocky fighting the big guys, they were tailor made for him. i think a guy like valdes or baker is a much easier match for rocky then a smaller slick boxer.


"the truth is rocky loved fighting the big guys. he found them easier to beat and knockout then those small guys who ran all over the ring- sonny marciano


take a look at the biggest heavyweights rocky fought, all of them got slaughtered and didnt make it past 1 round.

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

o and rocky did clean out the division. even the critics will point that out. when he retired, there was no one left to possibly face. there were no big matches out there or matches the public was craving for. archie moore was considered the lock in for the next heavyweight champ. no one knew how good floyd patterson was. he was still very young and unproven when rocky retired. archie moore had wiped out all the contenders himself so by marciano slaughtering moore, he basically eliminated a lot of the other challengers.

so once again how did he not clean out the division? 6 of his title defenses were against # 1 or 2 contenders AT THE TIME rocky fought them. he defeated 3 hall of famers in title defenses. also unlike some other champions, in close fights rocky gave rematches and always dominated in the rematch.

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

Rocky loved big guys because none of them were anything like Sonny Liston, Muhammad Ali or Larry Holmes. Before Ali, which fighter over 200 pounds used movement the way he did? That's simply something that didn't exist before.

so then why dont u critizize jack johnson or joe louis because they fought many big men but no big men as good as liston, ali or holmes.


but johnson louis and marciano and dempsey did fight big fighters and they werent exactley bums and they all destroyed the big men with relative ease. buddy baer was every bit as skilled as vitali klitschko! as were alot more big men.

larry holmes was not that big 6'3 210lb is not big. liston was 6' 212lb. thats chris bryd size?

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

Louis did have a win or two over Abe Simon, who was coming off a win over Jersey Joe. Max and Buddy Baer weren't midgets. Johnson fought much larger competition than any pre-Louis heavyweight. Jeanette, Moran, Jeffries and McVey were all larger than most of Marciano's competition.

abe simons win over walcott means jack shit. walcott was green and far before his prime. walcott also took the fight on 24 hr notice and very much out of shape yet jersey joe still easily outboxed the # 4 ranked heavyweight contender for 5 rounds until walcott terribly out of shape stumbled across the ring dead tired and simon finished him. walcott went down not from simons punch, but because of being so tired. kind of like ali-foreman except WORSE! so dont every say simon beat walcott. the correct thing to say is simon beat a far before his best walcott. simon later said out of everyone, walcott hit him the hardest in his career.

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

Louis did have a win or two over Abe Simon, who was coming off a win over Jersey Joe. Max and Buddy Baer weren't midgets. Johnson fought much larger competition than any pre-Louis heavyweight. Jeanette, Moran, Jeffries and McVey were all larger than most of Marciano's competition.

but wasnt jeffries shot? wasnt mcvey only 18 years old and green? jeanette is only 5'11 185lb what the hell are u smoking? moran is only 6'1 200lb the same size as lee savold. hell walcotts 6' 197lb basically the same size as moran.

the tall/big men rocky fought were


6'5 213lb Pat Red Connelly- KO 1, overhand right knocks connelly unconisious for 10 minutes

6'4 254lb jerry humprhey jackson- KO 1 overhand right knocks big jerry out cold


6'3 229lb big bill wilson- TKO 1


6'5 220lb johhny skhor- TKO 6, he beat hard hitting shkor so bad he retired him.


6'2 214lb joe louis- KO 8- he was still joe louis and a top # 1 contender and still a good fighter despite clearly being well past his prime


6' 200lb lee savold- "the worst beating of savolds 17 years in boxing"- new york times

5'11 210lb don cockell- TKO 9 cockell was a good boxer, # 2 ranked contender


5'11 207lb edridge eatman- TKO 3- he was a bum


6'4 190lb carmine vingo(i heard his reach was over 80")- well u know the story of this fight


200lb Keene simmons(dont know his height)- simmons was a very tough journeyman. simmons later on when old went the distance with cleveland williams. simmons said "rocky hit a lot harder than williams"


ive heard (6'3 not sure) 200lb Gino Bounvino- KO 2 one right hand knocked poor gino out cold


207lb bill hardeman- KO 1 one right hand was all the rock needed. harderman was a bum


201lb artie donato - one right hand in 33 seconds ended the fight


6'1 193lb rex layne KO 6- one right hand well u saw the delayed reaction layne did


6' 197lb jersey joe- no comment









out of rockys 49 fights, he fought only 3 who weighed 175lb or less. so most of the time rocky was taking on men his size or larger. im not critizing jack johnson here but dont forget, johnson fought men under 160lb. but dont be a hypocrite decagon. just because u dont liek rocky, doesnt mean u have to attack him for things other champions are at fault for too.

just tell us the real reason u are not a fan of rock because its clear u like to degrade his legacy with no good reasoning.




u critizie rocky for not fighting a nino valdes, bob baker, etc but fact is rocky didnt have to fight these big guys because the lighter guys like archie moore, harold johnson, ezzard charles were beating them. rocky simply fought the better fighters.

[Collins2000]

Louis did have a win or two over Abe Simon, who was coming off a win over Jersey Joe. Max and Buddy Baer weren't midgets. Johnson fought much larger competition than any pre-Louis heavyweight. Jeanette, Moran, Jeffries and McVey were all larger than most of Marciano's competition.

abe simons win over walcott means jack shit. walcott was green and far before his prime. walcott also took the fight on 24 hr notice and very much out of shape yet jersey joe still easily outboxed the # 4 ranked heavyweight contender for 5 rounds until walcott terribly out of shape stumbled across the ring dead tired and simon finished him. walcott went down not from simons punch, but because of being so tired. kind of like ali-foreman except WORSE! so dont every say simon beat walcott. the correct thing to say is simon beat a far before his best walcott. simon later said out of everyone, walcott hit him the hardest in his career.

You've been threatening to post the source of this 'story' for months now, Brocky. Your post suggests you have an in-depth knowledge of this bout so put us out of our misery and share the source.

[Collins2000]

I don't know how a 10-year veteran of boxing can be "green."

It is a bit of a poser isn't it?

10 year veteran 'green'? Hard to work that one out.

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

decagon,



are u telling me abe simon beat a prime jersey joe walcott?


and dont avoid the question i want a yes or no

[Collins2000]

decagon,



are u telling me abe simon beat a prime jersey joe walcott?

He beat a 10 year veteran not a 'green' kid. Give him a bit of credit. Or post the source that shows Jersey Joe beat him from pillar to post and then collapsed .

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

decagon,



are u telling me abe simon beat a prime jersey joe walcott?

He beat a 10 year veteran not a 'green' kid. Give him a bit of credit. Or post the source that shows Jersey Joe beat him from pillar to post and then collapsed .

yes but simon beat walcott in 1940. walcott didnt even reach his prime till 1946 or 47. im simply stating there is no way simon beat a prime walcott or could ever dream about beating a prime walcott.

[Collins2000]

decagon,



are u telling me abe simon beat a prime jersey joe walcott?

He beat a 10 year veteran not a 'green' kid. Give him a bit of credit. Or post the source that shows Jersey Joe beat him from pillar to post and then collapsed .

yes but simon beat walcott in 1940. walcott didnt even reach his prime till 1946 or 47. im simply stating there is no way simon beat a prime walcott or could ever dream about beating a prime walcott.

That's never been my contention. I'm saying he didn't beat a 'green' Walcott. You, on the other hand are adamant that not only did he beat a 'green' Walcott he only won by some kind of fluke. Like I said, give old Abe a bit of credit. Or am I too assume that unless something fits conveniently into your world view you just dismiss it? I'm willing and able to be convinced that the 2nd part of your arguement ie the fluke bit is true but I need to see the source.

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

ill give abe simon some credit. perhaps i used the incorrect word to describe walcott "green". i should have just said walcott was a late bloomer and had not reached his fighting best yet.


abe FREAKIN simon



- walcott was still a good fighter when he fought simon, and probably had more speed than anyime in his career. however he was hopelessly out of shape taking the fight on 24 hr notice and from what i heard had barely ate anything in the previous 2 days.

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

TRUST ME, WHEN IT COMES OUT, IT WILL NOT BE POSTED HERE AND WHEN I PROOVE THAT WAS 50TH FIGHT, I WILL FIRST PROOVE IT BEFORE PUBLISHING THE BOOK, BUT IF NOT, AT LEAST, I KNOW ROCKY HAD A FIGHT AFTER 1955 AND AT LEAST HE PERFORMED, NOW, I WISH I CAN FIND VIDEO OF THAT...

well when u find the video GIMME A CALL AT 1 800- BULLSHIT



perhaps though poster 'rocky50project' is telling the truth. i have the video of rocky fighting jerrry lewis and dean martin. rocky wins by KO. perhaps thats the one hes talking about.


rocky marciano KO 1 jerry lewis

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

i was being sarcastic.............



i have a full rocky fight collection



it contains the following videos



jersey joe walcott I and II
ezzard charles I and II
Lee Savold
Rex Layne
Don Cockell
Joe Louis
Harry Kid Mathews
Carmine Vingo - VERY VERY rare
Archie Moore
Roland Lastarza II

[Collins2000]

i was being sarcastic.............



i have a full rocky fight collection



it contains the following videos



jersey joe walcott I and II
ezzard charles I and II
Lee Savold
Rex Layne
Don Cockell
Joe Louis
Harry Kid Mathews
Carmine Vingo - VERY VERY rare
Archie Moore
Roland Lastarza II

Vingo? How long does the footage last?

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

i was being sarcastic.............



i have a full rocky fight collection



it contains the following videos



jersey joe walcott I and II
ezzard charles I and II
Lee Savold
Rex Layne
Don Cockell
Joe Louis
Harry Kid Mathews
Carmine Vingo - VERY VERY rare
Archie Moore
Roland Lastarza II

Vingo? How long does the footage last?

I actually just ordered it. it should be coming within this week. unfortunetley its only 1 min long from what i have read. but its a very rare piece of footage that seems worth checking out even if its only 1 minute long. i never even knew it existed until last month.


you can order it at http://www.ringwise.com/list.html

[Dempsey1238]

I havew the Vingo clip.

Its a few sconds long, you dont see the knockout punch.
But you do see the after effects of Vingo's coner trying to relive the falling Vingo.

Marciano was a pretty good puncher.

[Collins2000]

i was being sarcastic.............



i have a full rocky fight collection



it contains the following videos



jersey joe walcott I and II
ezzard charles I and II
Lee Savold
Rex Layne
Don Cockell
Joe Louis
Harry Kid Mathews
Carmine Vingo - VERY VERY rare
Archie Moore
Roland Lastarza II

Vingo? How long does the footage last?

I actually just ordered it. it should be coming within this week. unfortunetley its only 1 min long from what i have read. but its a very rare piece of footage that seems worth checking out even if its only 1 minute long. i never even knew it existed until last month.


you can order it at http://www.ringwise.com/list.html

1 minute???? hahahahaha, yeah I heard about it somewhere. It's a few seconds of fan footage AFTER the fight ends. I suppose like all train-spotters this has become an obsession with you.

Anyway, you were right about the Moore knockdown of Rocky. I was running off a copy for soemone last night and I remembered to check it out. Marciano wasn't hurt and was on his feet at the count of one as you said.

[silkov]

Abe Simon was probably one of the most formidable fighters Louis fought, very powerful and pretty fast for such a big guy, he would have given Walcott a hard fight at any point and its foolish to say that it wasn't a legitamate victory or that Walcott was green!!!...