OZ boxers of the past - Discussion

[Tinnie]

That link isnt showing the search result for some reason.

Reference No is 27113/1979

Surname : Simpkins
Given Names : Cecil Roy

Father: Samuel
Mother: Bridget

[Chuck1052]

Thanks, Tinnie! It appears that Spike Simpkins died during 1979, which means he would have lived until his middle 60s.

- Chuck Johnston

[Dale Howes]

G`day all
Does anyone remember Paul Sylvester from the late 60`s on TV Ringside?
Read recently he was killed but can`t find any info on what happened to him?
Cheers.

Paul Ambrose Silvester was buried at Mount Gravatt Cemetery in Brisbane on 3/8/1995,he was 46 years old. Paul's older brother Desmond Patrick Silvester who boxed as Dido Silvester was buried at Pinnaroo Lawn Cemetery on 20/11/1999,he was 59 years old being born on 8/5/1940,Paul's other brother Darcy Victor Silvester who also had a few fights was also buried at Pinnaroo Lawn Cemetery on the 9/3/1971,he was 24 years old.

[Like a Boss]

G`day all
Does anyone remember Paul Sylvester from the late 60`s on TV Ringside?
Read recently he was killed but can`t find any info on what happened to him?
Cheers.

Paul Ambrose Silvester was buried at Mount Gravatt Cemetery in Brisbane on 3/8/1995,he was 46 years old. Paul's older brother Desmond Patrick Silvester who boxed as Dido Silvester was buried at Pinnaroo Lawn Cemetery on 20/11/1999,he was 59 years old being born on 8/5/1940,Paul's other brother Darcy Victor Silvester who also had a few fights was also buried at Pinnaroo Lawn Cemetery on the 9/3/1971,he was 24 years old.

59, 46 and 24. All died way too early.

[Like a Boss]

Great old picture of the 1939 Palm Island Boxing Team that toured Townsville and fought boxing teams from Brisbane and Townsville.



Back Row. Eric Lymburner, Mick Ryan, George Sibley, P Doyle, Greg Barry, Mick Miller.
Second Row. J Harvey, Albie Geia, Reggie Dodd (Trainer and Manager), Keith Walsh, J Davidson.
Front Row. E Ebagoola, Jack Sibley, Jack Shepherd.

[bollox]

A short film on Jeff Harding. It's dated 2016 so it seems Jeff has his life together. I hope so, anyway

http://www.tropfest.com/au/films/feb-20 ... f-harding/

[Tinnie]

Great old picture of the 1939 Palm Island Boxing Team that toured Townsville and fought boxing teams from Brisbane and Townsville.



Back Row. Eric Lymburner, Mick Ryan, George Sibley, P Doyle, Greg Barry, Mick Miller.
Second Row. J Harvey, Albie Geia, Reggie Dodd (Trainer and Manager), Keith Walsh, J Davidson.
Front Row. E Ebagoola, Jack Sibley, Jack Shepherd.

That is a great find there LaB, thx for sharing

[Tinnie]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJppd2zwQ_4

Nice video containing footage of Jack Carroll vs Jimmy Leto and Jerry Jerome vs Arthur Cripps. Didnt know footage of either Jerome or Cripps even existed tbh. Jerome is very rangey and a lot flashier than i expected.

Jerome was Australia's first Aboriginal champion. His story is a strange one too, he was a stockman and for whatever reason he seem to come from no-where and begin boxing at the age of 34. He never had any kind of official training, but went on to forge out a very respectably career fighting guys like Cripps, Dave Smith, Ercole de Balzac and McGooty. Im sure he fought to a draw with Sam Langford too, but doesnt seem to be on his boxrec record.

Another great little video about Jerome and Elley Bennett...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZFn_GR ... zUyfeVL5Mv

[Chuck1052]

During his day, Jack Munro was an important Australian boxing figure, best known for his stints as the manager of Sydney Stadium during the 1920s and 1930s. It appears that his real name was John Fairclough and was born in Bolton, England during 1878. He died in Australia during 1959. Is he forgotten in Australia?

- Chuck Johnston

[Tinnie]

Chuck for the most part i would say yes, Munro is more or less forgotten these days. Thank you for clarification of his real name, i had no idea, i thought the likeness of his name to the Canadian HW boxer purely coincidental, maybe not so after all.

I have read quite a few of Munro's articles over the years and find them very enjoyable. From memory he was a handy boxer and wrestler in his youth himself and may have been the manager at the Olympia Athletic Club in Newtown before his stint at Stadiums Ltd.

He took over as Ron Richards Manager at one stage and had desire to take him to the USA where interest in the highly rated Richards had peaked... apparently the outbreak of the war put an end to those aspirations.... i dont know if that was the case or if, much like Jack Carroll, Richards didnt travel well and preferred to stay in Sydney where he could comfortably be matched up for bouts on a regular basis.

All in all, my image of Munro is that he was a well respected man, who looked after the interests of his fighters and was held in high regard in boxing communities both here and abroad.

[Chuck1052]

Tinnie, I was amazed when I couldn't find Jack Munro on the list of inductees in the Australian National Hall of Fame after reading about him, which is why I asked if he is largely forgotten at the present time.

- Chuck Johnston

[Tinnie]

I dont know what to say Chuck, except the ANBHOF seems to be a work in progress, with a majority of the workload falling onto the shoulders of the few dedicated to pushing it forward. I assume they would have to take time out of their personal lives doing this. Atleast it seems that way from the outside. I think they have done a great job as a whole, though i do hope there are plans to update the site at some stage, as its been a few years since new inductees have been entered.

There are always going to be guys that fly under the radar somewhat. Chiddy Ryan and Jim Donald are two that spring to mind who would be more than deserving as inductees. In fact i just noticed that "Silent" Bill McConnell, trainer of Jimmy Carruthers and stable rival to Ern McQuillan, was only inducted last year. I dont think its serves as an injustice it took so long for him to be inducted, only that it shows there is a long line of notibles waiting in line for their time.

[Chuck1052]

Tinnie, I also feel that the people doing the work in connection with the Australian National Boxing Hall of Fame are doing a great job overall. For one thing, I have a tough time finding inductees who aren't worthy of the honor of being members of the ANBHOF. I can't say the same for a number of other boxing hall of fame organizations. It does perturb me a bit to find that a number of Australian boxing figure who would be very worthy inductees, but can't get a tumble.

- Chuck Johnston

[Chuck1052]

Part I
According to an article in the February 1, 1917 edition of the Upper Murray and Mitta Herald, Les Darcy received a total of 9,697 pounds, 6 shillings and 1 pence for his bouts from Stadiums Limited from June 1914 to when he got paid for the last bout of his career, a knockout win in the 9th round over George Chip in Sydney on September 30, 1916. The Headlines of the article were as follows: "Poor Darcy!, Nearly 10,000 Pounds In Two Years, Breadwinning At 60 Pounds a Week, Details of His Income."

From June 1914 to June 1915, Darcy received a total of 3,126 pounds, 10 shillings and 0 pence from Stadiums Limited.
From June 1915 to June 1916, Darcy received a total of 5,526, 8 shillings and 6 pence from Stadiums Limited.
For his last two bouts, Darcy received a total of 944 pounds, 7 shillings and 7 pence from Stadiums Limited.

During the last six months of his career and before leaving Australia to travel to the United States, Darcy received a total of 2,526 pounds, 6 shillings and 1 pence from Stadiums Ltd. The breakdown of the total amount is as follows:

March 27- Les O'Donnell- 129 pounds, 5 shillings and 0 pence
April 8- George Brown- 413 pounds, 3 shillings and 6 pence
May 10- Alex Cortica- 309 pounds, 14 shillings and 6 pence
June 3- Buck Crouse- 303 pounds, 11 shillings and 3 pence
June 27- Dave Smith- 426 pounds, 4 shillings and 9 pence
Sept. 9- Jimmy Clabby- 375 pounds, 7 shillings and 6 pence
Oct. 3- George Chip- 569 pounds, 0 shillings and 1 pence

Note- Darcy fought Smith twice within the last two months of his career, not once. It may be that the listed amount that Darcy received for fighting Smith was for two bouts. But in the second bout, Darcy fought Smith in Brisbane, the only time that Darcy had a bout there during the last six months of his career. Did Stadiums Limited stage bouts in Brisbane at the time? Moreover, Darcy fought O'Donnell on the 25th of March, not on the 27th; Cortica on the 13th of May, not on the 10th; Smith on the 24th of June and the 16th of August, not on the 27th of June; and George Chip on the 30th of September, not on the 3rd of October.

To be continued in the next post......

- Chuck Johnston

[Chuck1052]

Part 2

Darcy reportedly spent his money on the following:

1. Reportedly 1,800 pounds for the farm of his parents.
2. A motor car, reportedly the only other large expenditure besides training expenses
3. Liberal estimates of his training expenses reportedly were no more than 30% of his income.

It was estimated that Darcy had about 6,000 pounds as a reserve.

Note- This article may have originally appeared in the Sydney Sun. I personally doubt if Darcy had a nest egg of about 6,000 pounds unless he received a tremendous return on investments. The article contained very sarcastic criticism of Darcy leaving Australia to go to the United States during World War I and telling a Sporting Life interviewer while in New York City that he left Australia because he was a breadwinner in a large family. It is interesting that Darcy was not only a pariah while in the United States after arriving from Australia, but in Australia itself. Yet after dying in the United States a few months later during 1917, Darcy appears to have been canonized in Australia.

I believe that Darcy had an obligation to try to enlist in the Australian military. If not being able to enlist in Australia, Darcy still had an obligation to stay there. In fact, Darcy left Australia clandestinely after not being able to get the proper documentation to allow him to do so in a legitimate or legal manner. I found it interesting that Australian males were not permitted to enlist in the Australian military without a parent's or guardian's permission until they were 21 years of age. Darcy didn't become 21 years of age until October 31, 1916. He left Australia about the time he was scheduled to have a rematch with George Chip in Melbourne, which was scheduled to take place during the early part of November 1916.

In my country, the United States, during the last 100 or more years, males have had to be at least 18 years of age to enlist in the American military without the permission of a parent or a guardian. If having the permission of a parent or a guardian, males had to be at least 17 years of age to enlist in the American military.

The U.S. was close to entering the war on the side of the Allies after Darcy arrived in the country. In fact, the U.S. House of Representatives voted to declare war on Germany on April 6, 1917, two days after U.S. Senate voted to do so and shortly after President Woodrow Wilson asked Congress (which has two legislative branches, the Senate and the House of Representatives) to declare war. While in the U.S., Darcy passed away in Memphis, Tennessee on May 24, 1917.

- Chuck Johnston

[Beltane]

Les Darcy was not under obligation to enlist in the armed services of the time and newspaper reports of the bloodbaths in Europe and earlier in Turkey kept the enlistments down. Hundreds of thousands of males at the time never enlisted, thats why William Morris Hughes tried twice to have a referendum to introduce conscription, and it failed both times. Much of the sonscription's opposition came from the Irish descendents who voted "NO", and the Catholic Arch-Bishop Mannix who rallied the "NO" vote. Les Darcy's Irish-Catholic background sowed the seeds of his future troubles, where unscrupulous politicians and newspaper owners enflamed the situation and singled him out for condemnation.

At the end of 1915 Les Darcy announced his intention to accept an offer of fights in the United States of America but, probably influenced by Snowy Baker, he changed his mind. Six months later the political atmosphere had been radically altered by the Easter week rising in Dublin and W. M. Hughes's commitment to conscription; and passports were being refused to men of military age.

Darcy began to come under pressure to enlist—partly at least as an example to other young men—and his predicament was aggravated by his Irish-Catholic background. His own attitude was ambivalent, but he was now anxious to go to America. He claimed that he wanted four or five fights there to make his family financially secure (his father was at times unemployed, and his elder brother was partly crippled, Les, the 2nd son, was called upon to help his large family), and then he would go to Canada or England to enlist.

His decision may have been influenced by E. T. O'Sullivan, an ingratiating adventurer who had made a big impression on the naive boxer. He and O'Sullivan sailed clandestinely from Newcastle on 27 October, the day before the referendum which, had it been carried, would have made him liable to conscription. Despite the failure of the referendum, the patriotic press denounced him as a shirker; so too, with less disinterested motives, did Baker and his connections.

In New York a major fight was arranged, but it was banned by Governor Whitman, ostensibly because of the manner in which Darcy had left Australia. The decision was disastrous for Darcy: promoters began to lose interest in him. He broke with O'Sullivan, gave some vaudeville exhibitions and on 5 April 1917 took out United States citizenship. A fortnight later, after a bout he had arranged in Louisiana was also banned, he volunteered for the army. Yet another fight was arranged in Memphis, Tennessee, and Darcy's call-up was deferred so that he could train, but on 27 April he collapsed.

He was admitted to hospital with septicaemia and endocarditis; his tonsils were removed but he developed pneumonia and died on 24 May; his fiancée Winnie O'Sullivan was at his deathbed. His body was brought back to Australia and, after immense funeral processions in San Francisco and Sydney, was buried in the Catholic section of East Maitland cemetery.

Les Darcy had all the makings of a folk hero. His remarkable ring record—he lost only four professional fights and was never knocked out—was associated with a quite extraordinary physique: a muscular body apparently impervious to the heaviest blows and a reach 7 ins (18 cm) greater than his height of 5 ft 7 ins (170 cm). He neither smoked nor drank, and spent most of his income on his family; he attended Mass most mornings, one of his closest friends being the local priest.

His decision to leave Australia secretly, in breach of the War Precautions Act, provided the controversy (and the enemies in high places) without which no hero-figure is complete: his lonely death gave him an aura of martyrdom. So powerful a legend did he become that fifty years after his death flags flew at half-mast, and a memorial at his birthplace was unveiled by Sir William McKell, former governor-general.

Much of the above has been adopted from the Australian Dictionary of Biography.

[Chuck1052]

During the last few days, I learned so much about what took place in Australia during World War I. For instance, I had assumed that Australia had been strongly supportive of the Allied war effort at the time. I had known that about 59,000 men were killed during the war, an enormous number for a commonwealth with a population of about five million. It astounded me when I learned that Australia didn't have conscription during World War I, especially with over four hundred thousand Australian men serving in the military during that period of time. Moreover, I didn't know there were two conscription referendums in Australia during the war, both of which went down to defeat by narrow margins.

My country, the United States, has never had a national referendum. Looking at the history of national referendums in other countries, they appear to lead to unstable situations, especially in the United Kingdom recently. Isn't it the job of Parliament to consider the question of the United Kingdom withdrawing from the European Union instead of having the general public voting on the matter?

- Chuck Johnston

[bollox]

In those days we were basically told what to do by the mother country. And Oz troops were used as cannon fodder by the British. Very expendable

[Chuck1052]

The political climate in both United States and Australia during World War I makes for fascinating reading. The history of 1916 conscription referendum in Australia was especially fascinating. The referendum was defeated by a relatively small margin when about 51% percent of the Australians who went to the polls voted "no." But it turns out that the "no" vote on the referendum drew an even larger plurality at about 57% in the state of New South Wales, which had the largest number of people going to the polls to vote on the matter than any other state in Australia. In addition to being a native and a lifetime resident of New South Wales, Les Darcy had a vast majority of his bouts there.

I also found it interesting that a large number of Australians of Irish descent were against the referendum. In the United States during World War I, the German-American community was the most noticeable faction against the U.S. declaring the war on Germany, not the Irish-American one. Of course, Australia was a commonwealth in the British Empire while the U.S. was a completely independent nation at that time. With the strong Irish sentiment against the British Empire at the time, it is understandable that a large number of Australians of Irish descent would vote "no." Darcy himself was of Irish descent in addition to being a Catholic.

- Chuck Johnston

[Chuck1052]

Freddie Gilmore acted as a sparring partner for Les Darcy on the latter's ill-fated American vaudeville tour, which was apparently cut short after not drawing well for the most part. He was also acting as the manager of Darcy at the time the latter died in Memphis, Tennessee. It appears that Gilmore was a professional boxer based in Chicago and fought both in the United States and Australia during his career.

I knew that a referee named Freddie Gilmore was active in California during the 1930s. During 1933, Gilmore, as the sole ring official, refereed a ten-round main event between Henry Armstrong and a Filipino fighter named Kid Moro in Pismo Beach, California, giving the decision to Armstrong after the bout went the distance. A large percentage of the crowd were young Filipino men and a big commotion resulted after the decision was rendered. Gilmore reported had to have an escort to get through the crowd unscathed. At the time, many young Filipino men were very devout boxing fans while living and working on the West Coast of the U.S. mainland and in the Hawaiian Islands during the 1920s and 1930s.

It appears that Freddie Gilmore the professional boxer and Freddie Gilmore the referee were one-and-the-same. Moreover, Gilmore apparently was born in Montreal, Canada and had a father, Harry Gilmore, who was a professional boxer during the 19th Century.

- Chuck Johnston

[Chuck1052]

According to at least one source, Les Darcy was one of eleven children with his father apparently not being up to the task of supporting such a large family. Later on, it was widely reported that Darcy's father and older brother were invalids while his mother wasn't in the best of health. Darcy had two younger brothers, Frank (also known as Frosty) and Jack, who also became professional boxers. During 1919 after showing some promise as a boxer earlier in the year, Frosty died at the age of 20 in May after coming down with influenza and pneumonia, two years after Les died after coming down with pneumonia while in the United States. It appears that Frosty was a victim of the devastating 1918 Flu Pandemic, which is believed to have killed 50 to 100 million people worldwide. Another younger brother, Joe, boxed as an amateur.

- Chuck Johnston

[Chuck1052]

According to a report of the bout between Les Darcy and a Greek-born boxer from the United States named George "K.O." Brown in the April 12, 1916 edition of the Sydney Referee, there was an "enormous crowd" which saw the bout, which took place in Sydney Stadium in Sydney, NSW, Australia on April 8, 1916. The gate receipts totaled 1,664 pounds at popular prices. According to an advertisement for the bout, admission prices were one pound (a pound equaled twenty shillings) and ten shillings in the reserve section and five shillings and three shillings in the "other" section. Brown was a durable fighter and was able to go the distance in the scheduled twenty-round bout while losing the decision.

If it is true that Darcy received a purse of 413 pounds, 3 shillings and 6 pence for the bout with Brown, that was close to twenty-five percent of the reported gate. For someone who was the biggest drawing card in Australia at the time, Darcy apparently was receiving a relatively modest percentage of the gate receipts in his bouts.

But in fairness to Stadiums Limited, it appears that there was considerable expense in bringing foreign boxers to Australia. The cost of the roundtrip tickets for long trips on ships must've been substantial. In addition, Stadiums Limited had to make it financially attractive for foreign boxers to fight in Australia.

Stadiums Limited apparently offered an American and a former world middleweight champion, George Chip, a guarantee of two thousand pounds to fight in Australia. After losing to Darcy by knockout in the ninth round in a bout in front of a large crowd, reportedly 12,000 people, in Sydney, Chip was scheduled to fight the Australian again in Melbourne a little over a month later. When Darcy left Australia in an unexpected and clandestine manner, an American boxer named Art Magirl substituted for him and boxed quite well before being knocked out in the fourteenth round by Chip. It appears that about 5,000 people saw the bout. As a result, I doubt if bringing Chip to Australia was that profitable.

- Chuck Johnston

[Chuck1052]

It would have been interesting to see what would have happened if Les Darcy beat his final illness, served honorably in the U.S. Army, became a U.S. citizen and survived World War I. Under the circumstances at the end of the war, Darcy would have been barely 23 years old and probably would be allowed to fight any place in the world by governmental authorities, notably in the United States and Australia.

With all due respect to Australia, Darcy definitely would have more opportunities to get good paydays while based in the United States, especially if he made good there. Stadiums Limited had a virtual monopoly in Australia during much of the first half of the Twentieth Century, which meant that Darcy had very little bargaining power there while he was active as a professional boxer, especially since he could not leave the commonwealth in a legal manner because of the war. Since he was fighting so often in Sydney and Melbourne, the gate receipts for his bouts seemed to have been relatively modest in those two cities as a result. Moreover, Darcy would have a tremendous bargaining position with Stadiums Limited if he made good in the United States. Think of how big the gate receipts could have been if Darcy returned as a conquering hero and fought in only one bout in Australia after World War I.

- Chuck Johnston

[Chuck1052]

According to a news item with a headline, "Roberts May Miss Newcastle Bout," in the October 13, 1951 (Saturday) edition of the Daily Examiner (Grafton, NSW) on the Trove website, Cyril Roberts sustained an eye injury in a bout at Grafton Stadium the previous night and may not be able to fight in a scheduled bout at Newcastle Stadium next Saturday. On Thursday (October 11, 1951), Alby Roberts, a relative of Cyril, died suddenly in Sydney. During the boxing show at Grafton Stadium, a two-minute silence was observed in memory of Alby.

According to an October 13, 1951 news item with a Sydney dateline and with a headline, "Death Of Former Fighter," in the October 15, 1951 edition of the Townsville Daily Bulletin on the Trove website, Alby Roberts dropped dead in Mary Street, Waterloo. While not reaching the title ranks, Roberts was a big attraction while being active during the 1920s and 1930s. It was thought that he would be a tough proposition for the Australian welterweights and light-middleweights of the 1950s. "Roberts was perpetual motion in the ring. He swung hard and fast with both gloves from a flat-footed stance and was described as tough as teak." A tragic incident during his career took place when Bert McCarthy sustained fatal injuries during a bout with Roberts in Melbourne on July 4, 1931. McCarthy died two days later. Roberts also fought "outstanding men" such as Jack Carroll, "Bluey" Jones, Wally Hancock, Russ Critcher and Billy Grime.

According to an On The Sportline column by "Norcoast" with the headline, "Many Forget The Fame Of Alby Roberts," in the October 30, 1951 edition of the Northern Star (Lismore, NSW) on the Trove website, the death of Roberts drew little attention. He was one of the fighting Roberts family of Lismore. Roberts died shortly after suffering a heart attack at the age of 44 at his Waterloo home. At the time of his death, he had been working for the Sydney County Council and "had build himself a comfortable home with all of the conveniences."

Note- I was interested in finding information on Alby Roberts because he had 178 known bouts, according to his record on the BoxRec website. How many other Australian fighters had as many bouts? Yes, "Harry Hop" Stone had 225 known bouts, but was born in the United States and fought in his native country for over six years before having so many bouts in Australia during a career which lasted 23 years.

- Chuck Johnston

[Chuck1052]

According to his record on BoxRec, Bob Whitelaw was a professional boxer from Newcastle, New South Wales, Australia during a career which spanned from 1903 to 1919, apparently as a welterweight on an exclusive basis. He was an Australian welterweight champion at least two times and probably was best-known for his two bouts with Les Darcy, handing the up-and-coming fighter his first known defeat by winning a decision in the first bout after twenty rounds and losing by a knockout in the 5th round in the second bout.

According to records in the Family Tree section of Ancestry.com, one Robert Pillans Whitelaw was born on June 16, 1879 in Haywood Colliery Village, Lanarkshire, Scotland and died on September 25, 1964 in Newcastle, New South Wales, Australia. It appears that Whitelaw was living in Australia by the time he was five years old. He married Lilian May Nelson (1890-1994) during 1908 and was the father of nine children. On at least of his pages in the Family Tree section, one can access a number of photographs of Whitelaw, both as a boxer and as an older man. The photographs of Whitelaw as an older man plainly shows the extreme wear-and-tear on his face, undoubtedly as a result from his career as a professional boxer.

- Chuck Johnston