Eubanks' lack of power a direct cause of Blackwell's injuries?

[Hinchy70]

As backward and illogical as the subject sounds, Eubank (generally agreed an average puncher) and his lack of power contributed massively to the brain bleed? In theory would a clean KO within the first 3 produced a different result, Blackwell being able to dust himself down and move on?

It appeared to me that Eubank hit hard enough to stun/force Blackwell on to the Blackfoot but nothing that could seriously hurt him (at the time, that would result in a stoppage), so a prolonged beating ensued....

So what have we learned? Accumulation of punches is just as dangerous as taking one flush on the jaw off one of the freak punchers, GGG, Kovalev, Stevenson to name a few. Would a move to 12lb gloves for 147+ and 10+ for <147Lb, a 2 lb increase, prevent this scenario? Or would this risk sanatising the sport, as after all Amatuer boxing is an option for those who don't want to take risks like the pro's, whatever the outcome I think more could be done to prevent this, whether that is to do with gloves/more energy absorbant handwraps (just a theory that one) or maybe another method.

[bruthead]

Increasing the glove size would do the opposite of what you are talking about, would further prolong beatings. Smaller gloves = quicker KOs. See MMA.

[Peanut Brittle]

I said something similar in another thread, Eubank seems to have the power to hurt or stun but not quite enough to flatten anyone, The Jeter farce apart Chudinov, Sullivan and now Blackwell have all absorbed sustained beatings into the later rounds, these can be very damaging. Without dwelling on the negative whenever a fighter suffers a serious brain injury it's usually the result of a similar beating, you rarely if ever see anyone sparked early from a single shot suffer the type of injury Blackwell has.

[Hinchy70]

I said something similar in another thread, Eubank seems to have the power to hurt or stun but not quite enough to flatten anyone, The Jeter farce apart Chudinov, Sullivan and now Blackwell have all absorbed sustained beatings into the later rounds, these can be very damaging. Without dwelling on the negative whenever a fighter suffers a serious brain injury it's usually the result of a similar beating, you rarely if ever see anyone sparked early from a single shot suffer the type of injury Blackwell has.

It's an odd situation where the lack of power inflicts more damage, I agree, Blackwell never looked in distress which is what the ref's/corners/doctors look for when stopping a fight.

However a solution must be there, a move to lighted gloves would see a larger emphasis on body shots as hands would break easier, is this feasable? Probably not, the amateurs had to wear head guards, even though they are more dangerous to satisfy the media after a death if I recall correctly? I couldn't see the world media seeing this as a positive change

[Old Jack J]

Don't have the stats but that how MMA market their sport as being safer. I.e less padding = more impact per punch = less impacts overall.

[Hinchy70]

Don't have the stats but that how MMA market their sport as being safer. I.e less padding = more impact per punch = less impacts overall.

Has the UFC had a death? I am aware there are other organisations, as a casual, UFC is all I watch.

I should imagine the risks of physical damage rather than cognitive/brain are greater simply because of the variety of strikes and submissions, arm bars can destroy joints etc, so to clarify one safer than the other overall is ignorant, not that I am Calling you ignorant yourself, in terms of brain injuries I'd say UFC is safer, but to quantify one over the other would be harder to call.

[rubberneck]

The use of 12lb gloves would certainly make the fights more "interesting".



Sorry, i couldn't resist.

Seriously though I don't think that changing the glove sizes/weights would make any real difference to the safety of the boxers. Such is the nature of the sport, the risks will always be there.

The introduction of check weigh-ins prior to some fights and post weigh-in weight checks has probably done more to improve the safety of the boxers. However, these are only used for the more major title fights.

Sadly, any full contact sport carries the risk of serious/life-changing injury.

I hope that Nick Blackwell makes a full and speedy recovery, and my thoughts are with his family.

[reggaereggae]

Don't have the stats but that how MMA market their sport as being safer. I.e less padding = more impact per punch = less impacts overall.

Has the UFC had a death? I am aware there are other organisations, as a casual, UFC is all I watch.

I should imagine the risks of physical damage rather than cognitive/brain are greater simply because of the variety of strikes and submissions, arm bars can destroy joints etc, so to clarify one safer than the other overall is ignorant, not that I am Calling you ignorant yourself, in terms of brain injuries I'd say UFC is safer, but to quantify one over the other would be harder to call.

If you're talking about UFC specifically, well there are very few fights yearly so you have to factor that in. MMA in general, I think there's been a couple.

But I think, even though it looks more violent, a lot of MMA injuries are a bit more superficial. I belive MMA long term is less damaging as you get so many fewer head shots. With boxing it's mostly Centred around head shots.

The thing is with last night's fight, Blackwell got hit with a lot of uppercuts which lift the head up and make the brain clatter against the skull. This is the danger. This is what causes brain bleeds - the brain bouncing off the skull.

AND almost all brain injuries in boxing happen in a long fight, for a title, so weight making is involved, and whikst not always 'evenly matched' it's always a hard fight with one guy taking a lot of punches....

What was the last serious incident when a guy was hospitalised but fought less than 4, 6 or 8 rounds? You hear people talk about 'dangerous mismatches', even Barry Hearn chimed in saying the Olympic plan to include pros would bring deaths.... When was the last time an amateur died after a bout? And they're many more amateur fights a year than pros.... When was the last time a bum got levelled by a top fighter in the early rounds and ended in a coma?

The truth is - fights that endanger boxers' lives are usually longer fights, for a title and either evenly matched or with one seriously durable opponent....

[Hinchy70]

The use of 12lb gloves would certainly make the fights more "interesting".



Sorry, i couldn't resist.

Seriously though I don't think that changing the glove sizes/weights would make any real difference to the safety of the boxers. Such is the nature of the sport, the risks will always be there.

The introduction of check weigh-ins prior to some fights and post weigh-in weight checks has probably done more to improve the safety of the boxers. However, these are only used for the more major title fights.

Sadly, any full contact sport carries the risk of serious/life-changing injury.

I hope that Nick Blackwell makes a full and speedy recovery, and my thoughts are with his family.

Oddly, check weigh-ins could do more harm, say an elite fighter who was still drained after having to make the weight the morning of the fight, was fighting a bum in a gimmie fight/first defence, they may actually inflict more damage by not having the strength to knock the opponent out? So the brain receives a greater amount of blows.

It's an interesting angle on something which may have saved lives, but theoretically a case like that could occur, but for every one of them then 10 lives could have been saved potentially, the exact figures we'll never know

[jamesmcdonnell]

Don't have the stats but that how MMA market their sport as being safer. I.e less padding = more impact per punch = less impacts overall.

Has the UFC had a death? I am aware there are other organisations, as a casual, UFC is all I watch.

I should imagine the risks of physical damage rather than cognitive/brain are greater simply because of the variety of strikes and submissions, arm bars can destroy joints etc, so to clarify one safer than the other overall is ignorant, not that I am Calling you ignorant yourself, in terms of brain injuries I'd say UFC is safer, but to quantify one over the other would be harder to call.

If you're talking about UFC specifically, well there are very few fights yearly so you have to factor that in. MMA in general, I think there's been a couple.

But I think, even though it looks more violent, a lot of MMA injuries are a bit more superficial. I belive MMA long term is less damaging as you get so many fewer head shots. With boxing it's mostly Centred around head shots.

The thing is with last night's fight, Blackwell got hit with a lot of uppercuts which lift the head up and make the brain clatter against the skull. This is the danger. This is what causes brain bleeds - the brain bouncing off the skull.

Yes his head was whipped back violently many many times, I recall at one point he took four in rapid succession.

[TheCobra]

I agree Eubank Jnr has stinging power but not concussive power. He had enough to get rid of Spike O'Sullivan though and he's tough as they come also. Can't remember if O'Sullivan pulled out or was it his corner?

Blackwell too tough and game for his own good, probably needed saving by his corner/the ref but you can see plenty of reasons why they all let it carry on as he was never once truly wobbled.

[Hinchy70]

Don't have the stats but that how MMA market their sport as being safer. I.e less padding = more impact per punch = less impacts overall.

Has the UFC had a death? I am aware there are other organisations, as a casual, UFC is all I watch.

I should imagine the risks of physical damage rather than cognitive/brain are greater simply because of the variety of strikes and submissions, arm bars can destroy joints etc, so to clarify one safer than the other overall is ignorant, not that I am Calling you ignorant yourself, in terms of brain injuries I'd say UFC is safer, but to quantify one over the other would be harder to call.

What was the last serious incident when a guy was hospitalised but fought less than 4, 6 or 8 rounds? You hear people talk about 'dangerous mismatches', even Barry Hearn chimed in saying the Olympic plan to include pros would bring deaths.... When was the last time an amateur died after a bout? And they're many more amateur fights a year than pros.... When was the last time a bum got levelled by a top fighter in the early rounds and ended in a coma?

The truth is - fights that endanger boxers' lives are usually longer fights, for a title and either evenly matched or with one seriously durable opponent....

Do we move to a 5x5 minute rounds then? Would it sell more over? It'd be a big shift, a lot of holes are able to be picked in the current structure but how to fix it would seem to need an outside of the box thinking, I still don't think allowing pro's to enter the Olympics is a good idea, although the fights are short, fighters could receive a whooping so bad it'd make them reconsider their career before it's even begun, especially in the first few rounds when incompetent fighters from Easter Island could face P4P pros....

[Hinchy70]

I agree Eubank Jnr has stinging power but not concussive power. He had enough to get rid of Spike O'Sullivan though and he's tough as they come also. Can't remember if O'Sullivan pulled out or was it his corner?

Blackwell too tough and game for his own good, probably needed saving by his corner/the ref but you can see plenty of reasons why they all let it carry on as he was never once truly wobbled.

Spike's ear drum perforated, again a result of the bludgening shots rather than getting sparked clean out, it's an interesting concept of fighters having "different types of power", it could rely massively on technique, whether they roll the knuckle in, punch at downwards angles (GGG KO'ing Rubio), or the blistering hand speed where the accumulation of punches results in a KD/stoppage

[expe]

Has the UFC had a death? I am aware there are other organisations, as a casual, UFC is all I watch.

I should imagine the risks of physical damage rather than cognitive/brain are greater simply because of the variety of strikes and submissions, arm bars can destroy joints etc, so to clarify one safer than the other overall is ignorant, not that I am Calling you ignorant yourself, in terms of brain injuries I'd say UFC is safer, but to quantify one over the other would be harder to call.

What was the last serious incident when a guy was hospitalised but fought less than 4, 6 or 8 rounds? You hear people talk about 'dangerous mismatches', even Barry Hearn chimed in saying the Olympic plan to include pros would bring deaths.... When was the last time an amateur died after a bout? And they're many more amateur fights a year than pros.... When was the last time a bum got levelled by a top fighter in the early rounds and ended in a coma?

The truth is - fights that endanger boxers' lives are usually longer fights, for a title and either evenly matched or with one seriously durable opponent....

Do we move to a 5x5 minute rounds then? Would it sell more over? It'd be a big shift, a lot of holes are able to be picked in the current structure but how to fix it would seem to need an outside of the box thinking, I still don't think allowing pro's to enter the Olympics is a good idea, although the fights are short, fighters could receive a whooping so bad it'd make them reconsider their career before it's even begun, especially in the first few rounds when incompetent fighters from Easter Island could face P4P pros....

We don't need to change anything other than to improve the medical provisions wherever possible. It's boxing, sadly fighters are going to get seriously injured from time to time, always going to happen while the aim of the game is to hit the other man around the head as hard as possible.

[TheCobra]

Spike's ear drum perforated, again a result of the bludgening shots rather than getting sparked clean out, it's an interesting concept of fighters having "different types of power", it could rely massively on technique, whether they roll the knuckle in, punch at downwards angles (GGG KO'ing Rubio), or the blistering hand speed where the accumulation of punches results in a KD/stoppage

Yeh I think Eubank has pretty good punch technique though. Could be he just doesn't have that raw strength, often a fighter is 'born' with KO power, could be just to do with basic physical things such as bone density, hand size, wrist size to transfer the power all the way from the legs to the hands. I get the feeling Eubank maximises his power as much as possible through having good punch technique, speed and variety, but just lacks that extra 'born' power.

[Hinchy70]

What was the last serious incident when a guy was hospitalised but fought less than 4, 6 or 8 rounds? You hear people talk about 'dangerous mismatches', even Barry Hearn chimed in saying the Olympic plan to include pros would bring deaths.... When was the last time an amateur died after a bout? And they're many more amateur fights a year than pros.... When was the last time a bum got levelled by a top fighter in the early rounds and ended in a coma?

The truth is - fights that endanger boxers' lives are usually longer fights, for a title and either evenly matched or with one seriously durable opponent....

Do we move to a 5x5 minute rounds then? Would it sell more over? It'd be a big shift, a lot of holes are able to be picked in the current structure but how to fix it would seem to need an outside of the box thinking, I still don't think allowing pro's to enter the Olympics is a good idea, although the fights are short, fighters could receive a whooping so bad it'd make them reconsider their career before it's even begun, especially in the first few rounds when incompetent fighters from Easter Island could face P4P pros....

We don't need to change anything other than to improve the medical provisions wherever possible. It's boxing, sadly fighters are going to get seriously injured from time to time, always going to happen while the aim of the game is to hit the other man around the head as hard as possible.

I think the Americans are miles behind with the medical provisions, it's only a matter of time before a big name is killed over there. And I wouldn't be surprised if Kovalev was on the other end of that beating. The man is frightening

[reggaereggae]

Has the UFC had a death? I am aware there are other organisations, as a casual, UFC is all I watch.

I should imagine the risks of physical damage rather than cognitive/brain are greater simply because of the variety of strikes and submissions, arm bars can destroy joints etc, so to clarify one safer than the other overall is ignorant, not that I am Calling you ignorant yourself, in terms of brain injuries I'd say UFC is safer, but to quantify one over the other would be harder to call.

What was the last serious incident when a guy was hospitalised but fought less than 4, 6 or 8 rounds? You hear people talk about 'dangerous mismatches', even Barry Hearn chimed in saying the Olympic plan to include pros would bring deaths.... When was the last time an amateur died after a bout? And they're many more amateur fights a year than pros.... When was the last time a bum got levelled by a top fighter in the early rounds and ended in a coma?

The truth is - fights that endanger boxers' lives are usually longer fights, for a title and either evenly matched or with one seriously durable opponent....

Do we move to a 5x5 minute rounds then? Would it sell more over? It'd be a big shift, a lot of holes are able to be picked in the current structure but how to fix it would seem to need an outside of the box thinking, I still don't think allowing pro's to enter the Olympics is a good idea, although the fights are short, fighters could receive a whooping so bad it'd make them reconsider their career before it's even begun, especially in the first few rounds when incompetent fighters from Easter Island could face P4P pros....

I am not sure what the solution is.... How much do you change a sport before it becomes unrecognisable?
For safety reasons only one could limit fights to 8 rounds and wear smaller gloves.... Which increase superficial injury, but lessen the fist weight and also would result in more quick stoppages as it hurts a lot more.

But in reality? Who knows..... I'm glad they reduced title fights to 12 rounds; but ultimately boxing will always be a dangerous sport. Which is somewhat why people watch it.....

If you ask me.... I would favour 10 rounds for a title fight and 6 oz gloves....

[Boxerbeetle]

I think the Americans are miles behind with the medical provisions, it's only a matter of time before a big name is killed over there. And I wouldn't be surprised if Kovalev was on the other end of that beating. The man is frightening

Wasn't one of Kovalev's early opponents killed in the ring? I think so, although not 100% sure.

[Hinchy70]

I think the Americans are miles behind with the medical provisions, it's only a matter of time before a big name is killed over there. And I wouldn't be surprised if Kovalev was on the other end of that beating. The man is frightening

Wasn't one of Kovalev's early opponents killed in the ring? I think so, although not 100% sure.

Yeah the video is on YouTube, Kovalev didn't seem remotely bothered. Again it was a prolonged beating where a fighters "bravery" got himself killed

[reggaereggae]

I think the Americans are miles behind with the medical provisions, it's only a matter of time before a big name is killed over there. And I wouldn't be surprised if Kovalev was on the other end of that beating. The man is frightening

Wasn't one of Kovalev's early opponents killed in the ring? I think so, although not 100% sure.

Yes... Roman Simakov, a fellow prospect, died three days after the fight. Kovalev took 6 months off boxing to get his head together.... He's obviously not a psychopath with no feelings, just a hard man brought up in a hard environment. He grew up poor as sh1t and gives a lot of his purse to family.....

[Hinchy70]

I think the Americans are miles behind with the medical provisions, it's only a matter of time before a big name is killed over there. And I wouldn't be surprised if Kovalev was on the other end of that beating. The man is frightening

Wasn't one of Kovalev's early opponents killed in the ring? I think so, although not 100% sure.

Yes... Roman Simakov, a fellow prospect, died three days after the fight. Kovalev took 6 months off boxing to get his head together.... He's obviously not a psychopath with no feelings, just a hard man brought up in a hard environment. He grew up poor as sh1t and gives a lot of his purse to family.....

Pretty sure he admitted to prolonging the Pascal beating last time out. That's damn close to a psychopath considering his past experience with the death of a competitor

[reggaereggae]

Wasn't one of Kovalev's early opponents killed in the ring? I think so, although not 100% sure.

Yes... Roman Simakov, a fellow prospect, died three days after the fight. Kovalev took 6 months off boxing to get his head together.... He's obviously not a psychopath with no feelings, just a hard man brought up in a hard environment. He grew up poor as sh1t and gives a lot of his purse to family.....

Pretty sure he admitted to prolonging the Pascal beating last time out. That's damn close to a psychopath considering his past experience with the death of a competitor

He's a fighter and felt that Pascal deliberately slagged him and his trainer off and tried to cause rifts. I don't see a problem with this.... Tyson and other greats said similar

[Hinchy70]

Yes... Roman Simakov, a fellow prospect, died three days after the fight. Kovalev took 6 months off boxing to get his head together.... He's obviously not a psychopath with no feelings, just a hard man brought up in a hard environment. He grew up poor as sh1t and gives a lot of his purse to family.....

Pretty sure he admitted to prolonging the Pascal beating last time out. That's damn close to a psychopath considering his past experience with the death of a competitor

He's a fighter and felt that Pascal deliberately slagged him and his trainer off and tried to cause rifts. I don't see a problem with this.... Tyson and other greats said similar

There is no problem, I'm just pointing out that Kovalev has killed a man boxing yet is willing to give an opponent a pre-meditated beat down, the man is someone I wouldn't like to meet in a back street

[Stuarty]

I said something similar in another thread, Eubank seems to have the power to hurt or stun but not quite enough to flatten anyone, The Jeter farce apart Chudinov, Sullivan and now Blackwell have all absorbed sustained beatings into the later rounds, these can be very damaging. Without dwelling on the negative whenever a fighter suffers a serious brain injury it's usually the result of a similar beating, you rarely if ever see anyone sparked early from a single shot suffer the type of injury Blackwell has.

The three fighters you mention there (Chudinov, O'Sullivan and Blackwell) are probably exceptions to the stoppage example. Three of them are hardy tough guys. I take your point on board and get what you're saying though

[Hinchy70]

I said something similar in another thread, Eubank seems to have the power to hurt or stun but not quite enough to flatten anyone, The Jeter farce apart Chudinov, Sullivan and now Blackwell have all absorbed sustained beatings into the later rounds, these can be very damaging. Without dwelling on the negative whenever a fighter suffers a serious brain injury it's usually the result of a similar beating, you rarely if ever see anyone sparked early from a single shot suffer the type of injury Blackwell has.

The three fighters you mention there (Chudinov, O'Sullivan and Blackwell) are probably exceptions to the stoppage example. Three of them are hardy tough guys. I take your point on board and get what you're saying though

If I recall correctly Spike would have got stopped had the fight continued, he was being ripped to shreds from 4-6, and well chudinov was just a freak, his beating was worse than Blackwell's, just shows that trying to appease fans by acting all macho can have serious consequences