Former WBC bantamweight champion Wayne McCullough has hit back at former trainer Freddie Roach following a recent interview in which Roach pleaded with the Las Vegas based Irishman to retire from boxing following his defeat to Oscar Larios or face the possibility of serious injury.
In the February 4 interview with the Las Vegas Review Journal's Kevin Iole, Roach, who suffers from Parkinson's disease following a prolonged professional career, said: "Honestly, I don't think he (McCullough) should fight anymore. After his last fight, when I stopped it, he was upset. But I had to do it because it was in his best interests. He's a great guy and he's had a great career, but it's time to call it quits."
"The round before I stopped it, I told him in the corner, 'Wayne, if you don't go out there and show me you can win, I'm going to stop this,' " Roach continued."And he went out and took a lot of punches and didn't land any. I know Margaret (Goodman, the ringside physician) was going to stop the fight, anyway, but I told Richard (Steele, referee) that was it because it was clear the end was there."
In the LVRJ interview Roach elaborated on his own professional boxing career to make his point and said that he had ignored the advice of his trainer the legendary Eddie Futch to retire after he was knocked out by Greg Haugen in 1985.
Roach ignored the advice and fought five more times, losing four out of five and said he often wonders how his life would be different had he heeded the invaluable advice from Futch.
"I can't prove it, but I wonder if I had listened to Eddie and not taken those last five fights, would I have gotten Parkinson's?" Roach said. "I took a lot of shots in those fights. That takes its toll on you.
"I don't wish this on anyone. I definitely don't want to see Wayne end up like this. I don't see him doing well in the future and I told him it's time to retire. He won a world championship, and that's something not a lot of people do. It's a one-in-a-million thing. I just worry about what might happen."
In response to respected trainer Roach's opinions in the Las Vegas Review Journal Wayne McCullough issued the following official statement
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Dear Freddie
I would like to respond to your most recent opinion given to me by your February 3 fax and an interview you did with Kevin Iole of the Las Vegas Review Journal this past Sunday.
First and foremost, I always respect the opinions of people that have been fighters, and surely one like you, who like many, many great fighters throughout the years, have shed their blood in the ring. However, for you to speak with such decisiveness and certainty makes me believe your words come more from the heart than the head.
As you may not be aware, the question of retirement and my family's well being is one that is of the utmost importance to me. So important that I believe extreme measures were taken by the Nevada State Athletic commission to give them all of the medical information necessary for their medical board to make a decision based primarily on the actual facts of determining a person's health.
The professor and Neurosurgery at UCLA said I was in excellent health, as did every other physician I was examined by and as a result medical tests I recently took.
Should all boxers be prevented from fighting because there is an inherent danger to do so? Where does it stop? Marco Antonio Barrera is a perfect example. Would a metal plate in his head inspire you to write him a note of retirement?
What should I tell my doctor? Thanks for giving me a clean bill of health, but my ex trainer doesn't think I should fight anymore because of what happened to him? Isn't each situation different and based on the individual?
I believe, with the many successes that you've had as a trainer, and your willingness to discuss any subject with the media, has allowed you the ability to publicly express your opinion issues without the benefit of facts or knowledge. That same openness from you would confirm that for the second Larios fight, you worked with me in Las Vegas for a grand total of 3 DAYS-even when I was in LA training, you weren't. Our training and 'get to know you time' together since August 2004 has probably totaled 5 weeks. I've spent more time with doctors, their tests and commissions to MAKE SURE I'm healthy, so that when someone elicits an opinion of retirement, I'm secured in the fact that the criteria to box in the United State has been a lot tougher for me than virtually any other fighter in the world. But I've accepted it to make sure commissions can make intelligent and informed decisions rather than one with their feelings and without knowledge of the facts.
In closing, I wasn't thrilled nor in agreement with your comments, but certainly appreciate your concern, as I do every fighter that steps in that ring. But with safety being my number one priority, I know that I'm fit and healthy to in the sport I love and enjoy.
Wayne McCullough
He'll not go out without a fight! Has to be one of the strongest minded people you'll ever meet, no matter what people think he should do. Theres been talk of McCullough fighting for the WBO title in March as well.
McCullough Responds To Roach!
Whilst this is a sensitive subject and as Freddie said, he is the prime example of fighting on too long, I'm glad Wayne did respond and an excellent response it was.
If what Wayne says is true, then Roach's approach to do what he is paid to do needs to be questioned and I'm glad Wayne has brought it to the attention. It wouldn't be a nice thing if a young prospect paid Roach to assist in training only for him not to be be there.
If what Wayne says is true, then Roach's approach to do what he is paid to do needs to be questioned and I'm glad Wayne has brought it to the attention. It wouldn't be a nice thing if a young prospect paid Roach to assist in training only for him not to be be there.
Looks like he touched a nerve with Wayne.
I'd like to see him retire but I also agree with him that if he is passed fit then he should be allowed fight. He has faded but he hasn't shown anything medical wise that his fights have had a prolonged effect on him other than the normal deterioration of abilities that can happen as early as your late 20's for some. As I said, I think Wayne can still box at a certain level if he chooses to drop down a peg but stay away from the guys who can hurt him.
I'd like to see him retire but I also agree with him that if he is passed fit then he should be allowed fight. He has faded but he hasn't shown anything medical wise that his fights have had a prolonged effect on him other than the normal deterioration of abilities that can happen as early as your late 20's for some. As I said, I think Wayne can still box at a certain level if he chooses to drop down a peg but stay away from the guys who can hurt him.
The point is though that when something does show up its too late by then. Jerry Quarry was passed fit for his last couple of fights yet ended his life a vegatable. What is beyond dispute is that Wayne has faded as a fighter and while always being a fighter who has taken a lot of punches, he is now taking an increasing amount and this is cause for concern. Just because a guy isn't being floored or koed doesn't mean that damage isn't occuring... I believe Wayne should be forcibly retired, not just for his sake but for the sake of the sport.
He can't be forcibly retired though because there is no medical reason for it. He has gone through all the tests and is in top physical condition as well as mental.
As for your comments on his safety well Wayne answered that himself.
"Should all boxers be prevented from fighting because there is an inherent danger to do so? Where does it stop? Marco Antonio Barrera is a perfect example. Would a metal plate in his head inspire you to write him a note of retirement?
What should I tell my doctor? Thanks for giving me a clean bill of health, but my ex trainer doesn't think I should fight anymore because of what happened to him? Isn't each situation different and based on the individual?"
As for your comments on his safety well Wayne answered that himself.
"Should all boxers be prevented from fighting because there is an inherent danger to do so? Where does it stop? Marco Antonio Barrera is a perfect example. Would a metal plate in his head inspire you to write him a note of retirement?
What should I tell my doctor? Thanks for giving me a clean bill of health, but my ex trainer doesn't think I should fight anymore because of what happened to him? Isn't each situation different and based on the individual?"
It's such a tricky situation with Wayne. He's only lost to world-class fighters, and it's not as if he's 'shot' to the same extent that, say, Holyfield is. McCullough can fire off hundreds of punches in a bout, and his chin means he can be stunned, but come back smiling, asking for for more, but never looking like going down.
You can't just suspend his license, because there are countless fighters who lose not only more often, but also lose worse than him.
But there has to be a point when enough is enough. If he wants to carry on, and medical commisions say he can, then it's his decision. But he's now had a top-flight promoter (Warren) and highly respected trainer (Roach) call for him to end it during fights. And for my money, he was taking a worse beating from Harrison than he was from Larios.
I know it's his right to decide, and I can understand him being pissed-off with Roach. But every man has a breaking point, and given Wayne's desire to only mix it at the top echelon of fighters, at a time when he's relying on his chin as the first line of defence more and more (and it's not as if he was ever a defensive genius anyway), he must surely understand people have only got his interests at heart? What more does he have to prove? I'm sure he feels he can go out and win another title, but for me the cost of doing just that could well prove to be far too high. He's so brave, and so, so tough, that the only way I can see his career ending is on a stretcher, after he proves to be just too tough. Yes, he's medically fit, and nobody can force him to call it a day. But better judges than me are trying to give him a hint.
You can't just suspend his license, because there are countless fighters who lose not only more often, but also lose worse than him.
But there has to be a point when enough is enough. If he wants to carry on, and medical commisions say he can, then it's his decision. But he's now had a top-flight promoter (Warren) and highly respected trainer (Roach) call for him to end it during fights. And for my money, he was taking a worse beating from Harrison than he was from Larios.
I know it's his right to decide, and I can understand him being pissed-off with Roach. But every man has a breaking point, and given Wayne's desire to only mix it at the top echelon of fighters, at a time when he's relying on his chin as the first line of defence more and more (and it's not as if he was ever a defensive genius anyway), he must surely understand people have only got his interests at heart? What more does he have to prove? I'm sure he feels he can go out and win another title, but for me the cost of doing just that could well prove to be far too high. He's so brave, and so, so tough, that the only way I can see his career ending is on a stretcher, after he proves to be just too tough. Yes, he's medically fit, and nobody can force him to call it a day. But better judges than me are trying to give him a hint.
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Max Molyneux
- Heavyweight
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- Joined: 16 Aug 2004, 16:53
Roach took a lot of punches in his career... had a good chin but poor defence... every fight was a war as he wasn't a big puncher. Futch told him to retire because he was getting hit too much, but Roach carried on for another 5 fights and now has Parkinsons....Max Molyneux wrote:I think Wayne should go out with a win then retire.
But how did boxing give Roach parkinsons disease? Anyone gets it yet they ain't boxers like Michael J Fox.
I think he wants to know how it is associated with parkinsons. I could just as easily say that today I picked up a rock and now have cancer.
I know they say punches to the head may cause it but has that been proved without a shadow of a doubt? All the fighters that have taken a lot of punches and I can only think of a couple off the top of my head that got parkinsons.
I know they say punches to the head may cause it but has that been proved without a shadow of a doubt? All the fighters that have taken a lot of punches and I can only think of a couple off the top of my head that got parkinsons.
I don't think it's likely to be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. But surely you have to admit that being punched repeatedly in the head isn't good for you?
McCullough is so tough it's untrue. But how much does it need proving? One day it'll be too much for him, and we'll all be wankers, because we were happy to watch him take one beating too many.
I've never fought professionally, so maybe I can't comment, perhaps I'm not in a position to judge.... but surely there is a time when common sense takes over? Surely there has to be a point when you can differentiate between taking a few shots, and being hit in the head for a living?
McCullough is so tough it's untrue. But how much does it need proving? One day it'll be too much for him, and we'll all be wankers, because we were happy to watch him take one beating too many.
I've never fought professionally, so maybe I can't comment, perhaps I'm not in a position to judge.... but surely there is a time when common sense takes over? Surely there has to be a point when you can differentiate between taking a few shots, and being hit in the head for a living?
Quite a lot of exfighters suffer from parkinsons syndrom in varying degrees... it is why you will see many exfighters walking with a stiff-legged gait and with a blank expression on their faces... too many punches to the head can cause damage to the part of the brain that produces dopamean and a lack of this causes 'Parkinsons syndrom'Terence wrote:
There is a difference between disease and the syndrome. Ali is a pretty good example as everyone says it is terrible how boxing made him suffer but as far as I'm aware he was prescribe bad medication by a quack (and NOI approved ie cheap) doctor. Ali took some bad beatings but the poor advice and beating at the hands of Holmes really punished him. No matter what Ferdie Pacheco thinks Ali may have gotten ill anyway, Ferdie seems to think he has the gift of healing.
On the other hand Ali can still think pretty decently, he just can't talk and move as fast so most people assume he is punch drunk and blame boxing for his condition. That is their ignorance. One school of thought is that these guys are so fit and for so long that their body withstands these illnesses better than you or I could. Parkinsons is not directly caused by boxing as far as I'm aware. Wayne's greatest fear should be that his defence is now non-existent.
Also Roach does not spend every waking moment with his fighters. I believe that Futch employed the same policy and left Kenny to do a fair bit but Wayne never complained about that. Why? Because Freddy obviously touched a nerve.
I also think that unless there is medical grounds Wayne is free to fight.
Fighters should be banned not according to whether they are medically fit but according to if they are able to defend themselves in the ring, something which I think Wayne can nolonger do, certainly at world class...
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jamesmcdonnell
- Heavyweight
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Correct. Parkinson's syndrome is a condition which emulates parkinsons disease. However, unlike Parkinson's DISEASE, it is a medical condition caused by trauma to the brain.
There is no evidence to suggest that Parkinson's disease is caused or exacerbated by brain trauma, but plenty to suggest that parkinson's SYNDROME is caused by being punched repeatedly in the head.
There is no evidence to suggest that Parkinson's disease is caused or exacerbated by brain trauma, but plenty to suggest that parkinson's SYNDROME is caused by being punched repeatedly in the head.
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jamesmcdonnell
- Heavyweight
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- Joined: 12 Nov 2003, 06:11
Some people have a genetic propensity which means they are more likely to develop particular syndromes, and yes dehydration causing a reduction in the fluids surrounding the brain is a big factor. This is why brain injuries are relatively uncommon at heavyweight as cutting to make weight isn't regularly practiced.
Nobody is suggesting that Wayne should be banned, there is no reason to ban him, it's just that boxing unlike most other sports, carries the risk of permanent brain injury. It's fine to carry on as a snooker player past your best like Steve Davis, because there is nobody smashing you over the head with the cue. The most likely injuries are sore elbows and lower backs, unless your unlucky enough to have the cue ball fly off the table and smash you on the temple at high speed, you are not likely to be killed or neurologically damaged.
Why on earth any fighter wouldn't want to at least try and avoid shipping punishment is beyond me. Wayne is an articulate and intelligent man, but to say that catching shots with his face is his style are the words of someone for whom defiance is the motivating factor in participation in the sport. His bravery and toughness know no bounds, but they are also in proportion to his pig headedness. Boxing is a young man's game, and Wayne is putting himself at serious risk of neurological damage by almost willingly taking punishment in every fight.
It's his life, but I do wish he'd jack it in, it's just my personal opinion.
Nobody is suggesting that Wayne should be banned, there is no reason to ban him, it's just that boxing unlike most other sports, carries the risk of permanent brain injury. It's fine to carry on as a snooker player past your best like Steve Davis, because there is nobody smashing you over the head with the cue. The most likely injuries are sore elbows and lower backs, unless your unlucky enough to have the cue ball fly off the table and smash you on the temple at high speed, you are not likely to be killed or neurologically damaged.
Why on earth any fighter wouldn't want to at least try and avoid shipping punishment is beyond me. Wayne is an articulate and intelligent man, but to say that catching shots with his face is his style are the words of someone for whom defiance is the motivating factor in participation in the sport. His bravery and toughness know no bounds, but they are also in proportion to his pig headedness. Boxing is a young man's game, and Wayne is putting himself at serious risk of neurological damage by almost willingly taking punishment in every fight.
It's his life, but I do wish he'd jack it in, it's just my personal opinion.
My actual belief is that Ali would have probably had Parkinson's regardless. I thought occasionally (very rarely) he sounded quiter just prior to the Foreman fight than in his Cassius Clay days - although perhaps its just me or the tape quality.
Certainly though Parkinsons was there long before the Holmes fight - he was alledegly taking tablets for it prior to either the Holmes or the Berbick fight. He had the vacant stare in the ring walk prior to the Holmes fight and he looked really old doing shadow boxing in the introductions.
Actually seen the fight for the first time recently, not as horrible as I was given the impression. Pretty terrible all the same, but I thought Holmes only held back from the 8th on - when Ali was spent. Holmes won everything but in each round prior to that, Ali would land a combination which would send the crowd wild (and Reg Gutteridge). I thought the Ayers vs Honney fight was much more shocking performance.
I agree with Ferdie Pachecco and it was probably the Ken Norton fight that accelarated his health problems. There was a significant slurring with his speech and slowing down after that. How he turned it around vs Spinks is just a credit to him - that performance is up there with his very best.
Does anyone know if Ali has Parkinson's syndrome or Parkinson's disease. In Champions Forever, he says it was syndrome because the classic symptom of Parkinson's disease is shaking - well, he has the shake now.
Certainly though Parkinsons was there long before the Holmes fight - he was alledegly taking tablets for it prior to either the Holmes or the Berbick fight. He had the vacant stare in the ring walk prior to the Holmes fight and he looked really old doing shadow boxing in the introductions.
Actually seen the fight for the first time recently, not as horrible as I was given the impression. Pretty terrible all the same, but I thought Holmes only held back from the 8th on - when Ali was spent. Holmes won everything but in each round prior to that, Ali would land a combination which would send the crowd wild (and Reg Gutteridge). I thought the Ayers vs Honney fight was much more shocking performance.
I agree with Ferdie Pachecco and it was probably the Ken Norton fight that accelarated his health problems. There was a significant slurring with his speech and slowing down after that. How he turned it around vs Spinks is just a credit to him - that performance is up there with his very best.
Does anyone know if Ali has Parkinson's syndrome or Parkinson's disease. In Champions Forever, he says it was syndrome because the classic symptom of Parkinson's disease is shaking - well, he has the shake now.
The thing is we're not just talking about Parkinsons syndrom and I'm sure Roach wasn't either, he was really saying basically if you stay too long you can suffer long term consequences... the main worry I think really being dementia... Wayne seems very lucid and sharp now but I have fights from the late 70s with Jerry Quarry commenting on and the same could be said for him, very lucid and excellent analysis of the fights etc... yet a few years down the road we know what happened to Jerry and the more fights and the more punches a fighter takes the more likely he is to suffer this problem... an iron chin can be a curse for boxers.....
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jamesmcdonnell
- Heavyweight
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As stated earlier, Ali has Parkinsons SYNDROME, not disease. Syndrome is a condition which can be caused by head trauma, you cannot get parkinson's disease from being hit.stujones wrote:My actual belief is that Ali would have probably had Parkinson's regardless. I thought occasionally (very rarely) he sounded quiter just prior to the Foreman fight than in his Cassius Clay days - although perhaps its just me or the tape quality.
Certainly though Parkinsons was there long before the Holmes fight - he was alledegly taking tablets for it prior to either the Holmes or the Berbick fight. He had the vacant stare in the ring walk prior to the Holmes fight and he looked really old doing shadow boxing in the introductions.
Actually seen the fight for the first time recently, not as horrible as I was given the impression. Pretty terrible all the same, but I thought Holmes only held back from the 8th on - when Ali was spent. Holmes won everything but in each round prior to that, Ali would land a combination which would send the crowd wild (and Reg Gutteridge). I thought the Ayers vs Honney fight was much more shocking performance.
I agree with Ferdie Pachecco and it was probably the Ken Norton fight that accelarated his health problems. There was a significant slurring with his speech and slowing down after that. How he turned it around vs Spinks is just a credit to him - that performance is up there with his very best.
Does anyone know if Ali has Parkinson's syndrome or Parkinson's disease. In Champions Forever, he says it was syndrome because the classic symptom of Parkinson's disease is shaking - well, he has the shake now.
Ali had been diagnosed by the time he fought Berbick, he was already taking medication for the symptoms. As far as I am aware he wasn't on the medication when he fought Holmes.
Ali was horrifically dehydrated for the Holmes fight as he had been swallowing fistfulls of diuretics to shift weight, because he hadn't been training. Interestingly, apparently Ali always shirked on training he hated roadwork with a vengeance and preferred sparring to training. Even more surprising is the fact that Lou Duva said he used to have nightmares trying to get Evander Holyfield to do his training early in his career.
I don';t think anyone really knows for sure... but at first it was thought that the condition wouldn't progress beyond what it was in the mid 80s but it has continued to develop and rumours are that hes in a bad way now.stujones wrote:My actual belief is that Ali would have probably had Parkinson's regardless. I thought occasionally (very rarely) he sounded quiter just prior to the Foreman fight than in his Cassius Clay days - although perhaps its just me or the tape quality.
Certainly though Parkinsons was there long before the Holmes fight - he was alledegly taking tablets for it prior to either the Holmes or the Berbick fight. He had the vacant stare in the ring walk prior to the Holmes fight and he looked really old doing shadow boxing in the introductions.
Actually seen the fight for the first time recently, not as horrible as I was given the impression. Pretty terrible all the same, but I thought Holmes only held back from the 8th on - when Ali was spent. Holmes won everything but in each round prior to that, Ali would land a combination which would send the crowd wild (and Reg Gutteridge). I thought the Ayers vs Honney fight was much more shocking performance.
I agree with Ferdie Pachecco and it was probably the Ken Norton fight that accelarated his health problems. There was a significant slurring with his speech and slowing down after that. How he turned it around vs Spinks is just a credit to him - that performance is up there with his very best.
Does anyone know if Ali has Parkinson's syndrome or Parkinson's disease. In Champions Forever, he says it was syndrome because the classic symptom of Parkinson's disease is shaking - well, he has the shake now.
Ali had tremours in his hands as far back as the Berbick fight.
I have an interveiw of Ali on Parkinson from 1981, after the Holmes fight and before the Berbick bout and he is talking about why he wants to fight again, saying he is fine and has never taken a beating... basically with the same stubborness that we see now in Wayne and Holyfield and Hearns... the fact that he could barely talk above a whisper makes the whole thing quite disturbing....
Yes, and especially hearing Hearns being interviewed on the BBC around the Mosley vs Wright rematch - when Buncey had to explain he's not punch drunk.
Ali has lost alot of weight (he is saying because of training) and he basically doesn't speak and walk anymore - but he looked "with it" acknowledging the crowd in the Valuev vs Ruiz match.
I have that interview on tape also (Ali's 3rd one on parkinson) - yes it was quite a difference, I only wished that Parky would have had the balls to say something about it.
I also have Ali on Sports Personality in 1978 - definate slur and is much quiter than normal, but he could turn it on and sound half pretty much normal when he focused then. When he tried to do that in the third Parky interview - he still sounded like George Best on Wogan.
Ali has lost alot of weight (he is saying because of training) and he basically doesn't speak and walk anymore - but he looked "with it" acknowledging the crowd in the Valuev vs Ruiz match.
I have that interview on tape also (Ali's 3rd one on parkinson) - yes it was quite a difference, I only wished that Parky would have had the balls to say something about it.
I also have Ali on Sports Personality in 1978 - definate slur and is much quiter than normal, but he could turn it on and sound half pretty much normal when he focused then. When he tried to do that in the third Parky interview - he still sounded like George Best on Wogan.
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Max Molyneux
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 7084
- Joined: 16 Aug 2004, 16:53
Yeah, I find the difference between Ali in the first and third Parky interviews quite shocking.... when you say that he doesn't walk anymore is he wheelchair bound? I hadn't heard that. In the latter stages of parkinsons sufferers find it increasingly difficult to eat as the muscels in the throat go I think...stujones wrote:Yes, and especially hearing Hearns being interviewed on the BBC around the Mosley vs Wright rematch - when Buncey had to explain he's not punch drunk.
Ali has lost alot of weight (he is saying because of training) and he basically doesn't speak and walk anymore - but he looked "with it" acknowledging the crowd in the Valuev vs Ruiz match.
I have that interview on tape also (Ali's 3rd one on parkinson) - yes it was quite a difference, I only wished that Parky would have had the balls to say something about it.
I also have Ali on Sports Personality in 1978 - definate slur and is much quiter than normal, but he could turn it on and sound half pretty much normal when he focused then. When he tried to do that in the third Parky interview - he still sounded like George Best on Wogan.
That sports personality '78 sounds interesting, would you like to swap a copy for something?.... I've got lots of fights and interviews on Ali... including his '79 this is your life proggram which is very rare.... also Ali and Frazier being interviewed by Parky before their 2nd fight...
Excellent post, i totally agree. McCullough is a man trying to "defy the odds" and prove people wrong in my opinion rather than a guy who genuinely believes he still has something to offer the sport.jamesmcdonnell wrote:Some people have a genetic propensity which means they are more likely to develop particular syndromes, and yes dehydration causing a reduction in the fluids surrounding the brain is a big factor. This is why brain injuries are relatively uncommon at heavyweight as cutting to make weight isn't regularly practiced.
Nobody is suggesting that Wayne should be banned, there is no reason to ban him, it's just that boxing unlike most other sports, carries the risk of permanent brain injury. It's fine to carry on as a snooker player past your best like Steve Davis, because there is nobody smashing you over the head with the cue. The most likely injuries are sore elbows and lower backs, unless your unlucky enough to have the cue ball fly off the table and smash you on the temple at high speed, you are not likely to be killed or neurologically damaged.
Why on earth any fighter wouldn't want to at least try and avoid shipping punishment is beyond me. Wayne is an articulate and intelligent man, but to say that catching shots with his face is his style are the words of someone for whom defiance is the motivating factor in participation in the sport. His bravery and toughness know no bounds, but they are also in proportion to his pig headedness. Boxing is a young man's game, and Wayne is putting himself at serious risk of neurological damage by almost willingly taking punishment in every fight.
It's his life, but I do wish he'd jack it in, it's just my personal opinion.