Callum Smith V George Groves

[lefty]

Groves fought fairly closely with Jack last time out and I don't think he's done. Smith looks good and may well grind him down for a stoppage, but Callum has still shown flaws, has been extended several times despite his last two blowouts, and IMO hasn't fought anyone in the top 15....guys like Rebrasse, Fielding, Mouhmoudi, and Sjekoca are decent but in my view limited compared to Groves.

I think Groves would be much more capable of exploiting Callum's shortcomings (notably speed and defensive IMO) than Callum's opposition to date, though Smith has a powerful, grinding style that I can see overwhelming Groves eventually. It would be a very interesting matchup.

Grinding? His last wins have been 1st round stoppages over one guy who hadnt lost before and another who had never been stopped before. Don't get me wrong, I don't think Smith is some Julian Jackson style puncher but I think he's pretty heavy hitting and Groves has never had the best chin in the sport.

Let's get real....Smith has been the distance 5 times in 19 fights even without facing a top 15 guy, and his recent blowouts have been against guys who stood right in front of him, don't have Groves's speed, and don't move nearly as well as him. He obviously has power but I'm not convinced that he's going to be the same type of monster against better fighters.

The same could be said for Groves though. Prior to fighting Froch, who had he fought bar Degale who wasnt a top 15 guy at the time and a shot worn Johnson who he had stopped which was particularly impressive? Also, let's not forget, Smith managed to drop Rebrasse something which Groves couldnt do. Regarding Groves movement and speed, I wouldnt say Badou Jack is a particularly great mover (very upright and quite stiff himself) and I wouldnt say he's a particularly great puncher either. I'd say Smith is on a similar level punching power wise if not superior and yet he dropped Groves and hurt him pretty badly.

[crusader]

I'm not suggesting that Smith wouldn't beat Groves on the basis that he hasn't fought anyone of Groves' caliber; of course fighters can beat opponents who are better than anyone they'd previously fought. Smith may well regularly annihilate opponents even once his opposition gets significantly tougher, but I'm not convinced of that when Rocky Fielding is the best guy he's blown out. Quite arguably Smith's best opponent overall won two rounds against Groves and doesn't have nearly the same level of power, speed, or movement, things which I think could give a hittable, straight ahead guy like Smith issues. It's true that Jack beat Groves (I wouldn't say GG was badly hurt and apart from the first his durability seemed fine) but it was a fairly close fight with only a couple points in it, and while not a huge puncher I think that Jack is faster and perhaps defensively sharper than Smith.

Is it questionable to ask whether Smith would turn in the same destructive performances against top opposition, and if Groves is really destined to be destroyed? I'm not even saying that he would beat Smith.

[lefty]

I'm not suggesting that Smith wouldn't beat Groves on the basis that he hasn't fought anyone of Groves' caliber; of course fighters can beat opponents who are better than anyone they'd previously fought. Smith may well regularly annihilate opponents even once his opposition gets significantly tougher, but I'm not convinced of that when Rocky Fielding is the best guy he's blown out. Quite arguably Smith's best opponent overall won two rounds against Groves and doesn't have nearly the same level of power, speed, or movement, things which I think could give a hittable, straight ahead guy like Smith issues. It's true that Jack beat Groves (I wouldn't say GG was badly hurt and apart from the first his durability seemed fine) but it was a fairly close fight with only a couple points in it, and I think Jack is faster and defensively sharper than Smith.

Is it questionable to ask whether Smith would turn in the same destructive performances against top opposition, and if Groves is really destined to be destroyed? I'm not even saying that he would beat Smith.

I don't know. When he got up from the knockdown his legs looked pretty all over the place initially. He also seemed to get wobbled a few other times in the fight without going down.

and I think Jack is faster and defensively sharper than Smith

Faster? Possibly. Not by much though I don't think. He also doesnt have the punch selection which I believe Smith has. Defensively, Jack and Smith seem very similar. Both have a high guard and tend to rely on that to block punches or take some of the sting off of them. They don't tend to use their legs a lot to evade shots.

[crusader]

Watching the opening round I think it's quite a stretch to say that Groves was badly hurt, and I don't recall him being particularly bothered by any other shots. He did start to look visibly fatigued as the bout progressed, but he also maintained a fairly high workrate and was throwing significantly more than Jack, just not with the same accuracy. Callum seems a bit on the slower side compared to the best at 168 and while Jack isn't a speed demon I think he's clearly got a speed advantage. Defensively they have similar styles, but given what I've seen from Smith in that regard I wouldn't be too confident that he could use a tight defense to shut down Groves' offense, and the quality of his chin is largely unknown at this point.

I'd actually lean toward Smith if this happened, but IMO it's hardly a foregone conclusion that Groves would not only lose, but that he'd get destroyed. I'm not drinking the Callum kool-aid just yet.

[davie]

Nigel Benn is being quoted today as having said Callum destroys everyone in the SMW division and GGG and Kovalev.


I still think an on form GG gives him bother though

[crusader]

Nigel Benn is being quoted today as having said Callum destroys everyone in the SMW division and GGG and Kovalev.


I still think an on form GG gives him bother though

Hell, why stop there, Callum destroys Fury, Povetkin, Wilder, and AJ too.

[lefty]

Watching the opening round I think it's quite a stretch to say that Groves was badly hurt, and I don't recall him being particularly bothered by any other shots. He did start to look visibly fatigued as the bout progressed, but he also maintained a fairly high workrate and was throwing significantly more than Jack, just not with the same accuracy. Callum seems a bit on the slower side compared to the best at 168 and while Jack isn't a speed demon I think he's clearly got a speed advantage. Defensively they have similar styles, but given what I've seen from Smith in that regard I wouldn't be too confident that he could use a tight defense to shut down Groves' offense, and the quality of his chin is largely unknown at this point.

I'd actually lean toward Smith if this happened, but IMO it's hardly a foregone conclusion that Groves would not only lose, but that he'd get destroyed. I'm not drinking the Callum kool-aid just yet.

You don't think he was doing the stanky leg when he got up from the knockdown? Look at his legs! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FouyMOr2bc4

[crusader]

We must have different ideas of what it means to be badly hurt. He was unsteady for just a few seconds, seemed clearheaded, and if I recall won the next round.

[lefty]

We must have different ideas of what it means to be badly hurt. He was unsteady for just a few seconds, seemed clearheaded, and if I recall won the next round.

Well it certainly wasnt a flash knockdown even if he wasnt badly hurt per se.

[Hinchy70]

fights were scored:

Groves: referee: Adrio Zannoni judges: Massimo Barrovecchio 110-118, Bela Florian 110-118, Robert Verwijs 111-117

Smith: referee: Victor Loughlin judges: Tim Cheatham 118-110, John Keane 118-110, Robin Dolpierre 120-107

Very similar performances, both were clear winners but I thought Smith was more dominant than Groves.

At a few stages of I remember, Rebrasse was getting the better of Smith and pushing him back? but yes similar performances but Sky slaughtered Groves for that

You're right. Groves busted Rebrasse up with the jab alone, hit him a lot of shots/combinations at will, and was always the dominant fighter (though Rebrasse was tough as nails).

Smith got backed up repeatedly by Rebrasse, ate a lot of shots through and around his guard and didn't look massively stronger than the Frenchman, who if he had a dig would have been right in that fight i reckon, considering the amount he was able to land on Smith.

There's a lot of revisionist history going on right now cause Smith has suddenly been labelled a monster/killer/destroyer by the Sky hype machine

This captures my point perfectly, the scorecards were similar but Sky did Groves a massive dis-service, even though he boxed Rebrasse's ears off

[crusader]

We must have different ideas of what it means to be badly hurt. He was unsteady for just a few seconds, seemed clearheaded, and if I recall won the next round.

Well it certainly wasnt a flash knockdown even if he wasnt badly hurt per se.

I agree.

[Twinkle Toes]

Groves is a better boxer than Smith in my opinion.

Not to say Smith wouldn't win if they fought - Groves has weak points to his game, and it haunts him.

[Deserter]

Callum Smith would dismantle Groves painfully.

Don't understand anyone who thinks differently to be honest.

That's a bizarre statement given there are compelling cases to be made for either scenario. Personally, I don't understand the man who thinks it's a no-brainer that someone who has so far performed only at European title level is locked on to beat someone who only lost a world title bid on a split decision as recently as six months ago. Just saying...

[arlovski]

Callum Smith would dismantle Groves painfully.

Don't understand anyone who thinks differently to be honest.

That's a bizarre statement given there are compelling cases to be made for either scenario. Personally, I don't understand the man who thinks it's a no-brainer that someone who has so far performed only at European title level is locked on to beat someone who only lost a world title bid on a split decision as recently as six months ago. Just saying...

Agreed. Ridiculous statement.

[Oiky]

smith would smash groves within 5rounds

[Hiyaaa]

Groves for me , but this would be an exciting fight I think , like to see it