Updating the BOXREC Forum Heavyweight Rankings CLOSED

[jezzamundo]

You were asking about Browne. What Glazkov has to do with anything? If you are talking their fight, Martin never beat Glazkov. In my estimation it was no contest.

Browne and Glazkov are both ranked 8 in this awkward list ;)

It is awkward but jezza insists on it.

Shared rankings only happen when there's a draw in the voting - it is actually pretty uncommon and having this many in shared positions has never happened before in the nine years I have been running these rankings. One way to solve it would be to have another vote topic every time there's a drawn vote, but I'd rather not do that. Alternatively, I could use the mean vote to settle draws - I've been seriously thinking about doing that recently with the number of ties we've been having, but that could well result in a draw as well, plus it gives more power to people who make outlying votes, which I'm not a fan of.

[jezzamundo]

Joshua #5 or #6 definitely no higher.

Which is it?! If you don't reply, I'm going to use your original vote of #5.

[jezzamundo]

He beat a weak unranked opponent. He has never beaten anyone above domestic level and he can't just get slotted in to the top 5 on that.

His ability might be top 5 but he's yet to prove that.

I'd put him behind Browne for the time being (although Glazkov has to drop down surely?)

9th looks OK to me. If he beats a Pulev/Takam type soon he can keep rising as I believe he has the ability to defeat that kind of fighter.

Confirming that your vote is Joshua to #9? Technically he can't occupy the #9 position after this fight as there are two guys sharing the #8 ranking and the position below them is #10. Regardless, I CAN accept #9 as a vote.

[davie]

He beat a weak unranked opponent. He has never beaten anyone above domestic level and he can't just get slotted in to the top 5 on that.

His ability might be top 5 but he's yet to prove that.

I'd put him behind Browne for the time being (although Glazkov has to drop down surely?)

9th looks OK to me. If he beats a Pulev/Takam type soon he can keep rising as I believe he has the ability to defeat that kind of fighter.

Confirming that your vote is Joshua to #9? Technically he can't occupy the #9 position after this fight as there are two guys sharing the #8 ranking and the position below them is #10. Regardless, I CAN accept #9 as a vote.

Don't be that guy!
Nobody likes that guy!

[jezzamundo]

No rank gains because of this fight, but because of his previous fights I think he should be rank 3 of this list.
Scott, Stiverne and name them shouldn't be in and probably should never have.

Soooo, your vote is Joshua to #3? It doesn't matter whether it's because of this fight or not, just vote the fighter to the position you believe they should occupy.

Scott got in by widely beating the then ranked Tony Thompson and he hasn't lost since.
Stiverne got in by beating the then ranked Chris Arreola, then improved his ranking by beating him again. Since then he has only lost to Wilder.
Neither of these were controversial at the time and as always, the majority ruled. However this topic isn't about those fights - the rankings of those fighters will be up for vote when they fight again.

Oké, so the difference between KOing Thompson 3 times in 6 rounds, and getting Koed by Thompson but very very luckely winning anyway by a very doubtfull pointscoring match is the only difference between rank 4 and 13? For me, Scott would never survive against Parker, Whyte, Hughie, perhaps even Duhaupas, Chagaev, Granat, Long Zhang, even Briggs, or Haye.

I think you mean KDing. Scott beat Thompson very convincingly, there was nothing lucky or doubtful about it. No question that Ortiz beat Thompson more convincingly. In the current heavyweight scene, the gulf between rank 4 and 13 is HUGE.

[jezzamundo]

He beat a weak unranked opponent. He has never beaten anyone above domestic level and he can't just get slotted in to the top 5 on that.

His ability might be top 5 but he's yet to prove that.

I'd put him behind Browne for the time being (although Glazkov has to drop down surely?)

9th looks OK to me. If he beats a Pulev/Takam type soon he can keep rising as I believe he has the ability to defeat that kind of fighter.

Confirming that your vote is Joshua to #9? Technically he can't occupy the #9 position after this fight as there are two guys sharing the #8 ranking and the position below them is #10. Regardless, I CAN accept #9 as a vote.

Don't be that guy!
Nobody likes that guy!

You still haven't answered my question. If you don't, I will assume your vote is for Joshua to #9, which is fine, just thought I'd point the situation out.

[davie]

Confirming that your vote is Joshua to #9? Technically he can't occupy the #9 position after this fight as there are two guys sharing the #8 ranking and the position below them is #10. Regardless, I CAN accept #9 as a vote.

Don't be that guy!
Nobody likes that guy!

You still haven't answered my question. If you don't, I will assume your vote is for Joshua to #9, which is fine, just thought I'd point the situation out.

Yes, it's 9.

[Tarkus]

Browne and Glazkov are both ranked 8 in this awkward list ;)

It is awkward but jezza insists on it.

Shared rankings only happen when there's a draw in the voting - it is actually pretty uncommon and having this many in shared positions has never happened before in the nine years I have been running these rankings. One way to solve it would be to have another vote topic every time there's a drawn vote, but I'd rather not do that. Alternatively, I could use the mean vote to settle draws - I've been seriously thinking about doing that recently with the number of ties we've been having, but that could well result in a draw as well, plus it gives more power to people who make outlying votes, which I'm not a fan of.

I think mean is a good tiebreaker. It doesnt have to be astronomically precise, I think its more important to have it look clear and conventional. If the mean results in a tie I would suggest to break it based on previous ranking, so that higher ranked boxer previously stays higher. If even that is not possible (two new entries) then separate them according to bosses vote, that is you.

[sgtcecil]

Joshua up to #8

[tiny_acres]

Joshua #9
Martin unranked

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

14. Anthony Joshua

Topic A - How are the rankings affected by Anthony Joshua's KO2 win over Charles Martin?

My vote: Joshua to #5, Martin remains unranked.

- You could've had Joshua as high as 10-12 last time he came up had you counted all the votes, and now you got him #5 based on beating an "unranked" fighter?

Bad stat model you have going here as you have proven with your completely opposing POV that you cannot justify with any statistical logic. Time to return it to a true one man one vote democracy where every vote counts and maybe the poll participation will increase.

I vote Joshua #3 because he's that good even if yet unproven and keep Martin unranked. That also bumps the Haymon darling Wilder down to #4 which is still too high for him, but oh well, it's boxrec. Josh would bump off Wilder almost as easy as he did Martin. It ain't like it's hard to see, but regardless, you should stop trying to run some kind of research stat grant using a bunch of statistical nonsense to blow smoke up arrears to tickle professors. This is elemental boxing, nothing more, nothing less, but quite enough if run properly.

[Kronkpride]

Joshua to 13.

[jezzamundo]

14. Anthony Joshua

Topic A - How are the rankings affected by Anthony Joshua's KO2 win over Charles Martin?

My vote: Joshua to #5, Martin remains unranked.

- You could've had Joshua as high as 10-12 last time he came up had you counted all the votes, and now you got him #5 based on beating an "unranked" fighter?

Bad stat model you have going here as you have proven with your completely opposing POV that you cannot justify with any statistical logic. Time to return it to a true one man one vote democracy where every vote counts and maybe the poll participation will increase.

I vote Joshua #3 because he's that good even if yet unproven and keep Martin unranked. That also bumps the Haymon darling Wilder down to #4 which is still too high for him, but oh well, it's boxrec. Josh would bump off Wilder almost as easy as he did Martin. It ain't like it's hard to see, but regardless, you should stop trying to run some kind of research stat grant using a bunch of statistical nonsense to blow smoke up arrears to tickle professors. This is elemental boxing, nothing more, nothing less, but quite enough if run properly.

I'm sorry, but either you didn't read my reply to your accusation in a previous topic, or you didn't understand it for some reason. Joshua to #5 is my vote, which carries no more weight than anyone else's.

Whenever asked, I've always been very upfront with the way these rankings are calculated - I use the median vote. I clearly explained what this means for those who didn't know. Using the median is a much fairer way of counting votes because it means that the majority rules, with no exceptions. I don't know what gave you the idea that I don't count every vote, but that is absolutely 100% incorrect and frankly, insulting, as I've run these rankings in an open and honest way for the past nine years.

Median is a very basic mathematical concept that is taught to ten year olds. If you can't understand that this is a better, fairer way to count votes than the mean, then I'm surprised you have intelligence enough to operate a keyboard.

[jezzamundo]

14. Anthony Joshua

Topic A - How are the rankings affected by Anthony Joshua's KO2 win over Charles Martin?

My vote: Joshua to #5, Martin remains unranked.

- You could've had Joshua as high as 10-12 last time he came up had you counted all the votes, and now you got him #5 based on beating an "unranked" fighter?

Bad stat model you have going here as you have proven with your completely opposing POV that you cannot justify with any statistical logic. Time to return it to a true one man one vote democracy where every vote counts and maybe the poll participation will increase.

I vote Joshua #3 because he's that good even if yet unproven and keep Martin unranked. That also bumps the Haymon darling Wilder down to #4 which is still too high for him, but oh well, it's boxrec. Josh would bump off Wilder almost as easy as he did Martin. It ain't like it's hard to see, but regardless, you should stop trying to run some kind of research stat grant using a bunch of statistical nonsense to blow smoke up arrears to tickle professors. This is elemental boxing, nothing more, nothing less, but quite enough if run properly.

If you never did read my response, I apologise, but if you did you should understand why this is the fairest way of calculating the rankings. Be sure to read the last and third last posts in the thread:

http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f ... 8&start=25

[dagilechia]

Joshua 5

[asdfjkl]

Edit:
Joshua rank 1, parker rank 2 Jun Long Zhang rank 3.

[jezzamundo]

Joshua rank 3, parker rank 10 Jun Long Zhang rank 15.

You know I have to ignore the last two. Parker will soon be up for vote after the Takam fight. If you believe Zhang should be in the rankings, please make a request for a topic immediately after he has had a fight.

[asdfjkl]

Joshua rank 3, parker rank 10 Jun Long Zhang rank 15.

You know I have to ignore the last two. Parker will soon be up for vote after the Takam fight. If you believe Zhang should be in the rankings, please make a request for a topic immediately after he has had a fight.

He just had another fight... You don't even know who he is right?

[jezzamundo]

Joshua rank 3, parker rank 10 Jun Long Zhang rank 15.

You know I have to ignore the last two. Parker will soon be up for vote after the Takam fight. If you believe Zhang should be in the rankings, please make a request for a topic immediately after he has had a fight.

He just had another fight... You don't even know who he is right?

I'd heard of him but I've never seen him fight. I think making a topic for the Arias fight will probably be a waste of time, Zhang might be good, but he hasn't fought anyone of note and I doubt many would want him in the top 15.

[asdfjkl]

You know I have to ignore the last two. Parker will soon be up for vote after the Takam fight. If you believe Zhang should be in the rankings, please make a request for a topic immediately after he has had a fight.

He just had another fight... You don't even know who he is right?

I'd heard of him but I've never seen him fight. I think making a topic for the Arias fight will probably be a waste of time, Zhang might be good, but he hasn't fought anyone of note and I doubt many would want him in the top 15.

He clearly shows better results against the same opponends as Hughie Fury, as Deontay Wilder, name them.

[jezzamundo]

He just had another fight... You don't even know who he is right?

I'd heard of him but I've never seen him fight. I think making a topic for the Arias fight will probably be a waste of time, Zhang might be good, but he hasn't fought anyone of note and I doubt many would want him in the top 15.

He clearly shows better results against the same opponends as Hughie Fury, as Deontay Wilder, name them.

An earlier stoppage isn't necessarily a better result, not to mention that styles make fights. Who stopped a D level opponent earlier really isn't a good yardstick for gauging how good fighters are. Until we see Zhang in with some C and B level fighters, we won't know how good he actually is. For now, the fact that he hasn't gone more than 3 rounds, coupled with the fact that he's overweight raises serious questions about his stamina.

[asdfjkl]

I'd heard of him but I've never seen him fight. I think making a topic for the Arias fight will probably be a waste of time, Zhang might be good, but he hasn't fought anyone of note and I doubt many would want him in the top 15.

He clearly shows better results against the same opponends as Hughie Fury, as Deontay Wilder, name them.

An earlier stoppage isn't necessarily a better result, not to mention that styles make fights. Who stopped a D level opponent earlier really isn't a good yardstick for gauging how good fighters are. Until we see Zhang in with some C and B level fighters, we won't know how good he actually is. For now, the fact that he hasn't gone more than 3 rounds, coupled with the fact that he's overweight raises serious questions about his stamina.

It's an early stoppage time over time over and over again. And continually in less time as anyone else, even Joshua couldn't KO faster and Wilder was clearly slower.

Also, please put AJ as rank 1 for my vote, parker 2 and Zhang 3, not that they are the top three, but at least their rank comes closer near reality.

[jezzamundo]

He clearly shows better results against the same opponends as Hughie Fury, as Deontay Wilder, name them.

An earlier stoppage isn't necessarily a better result, not to mention that styles make fights. Who stopped a D level opponent earlier really isn't a good yardstick for gauging how good fighters are. Until we see Zhang in with some C and B level fighters, we won't know how good he actually is. For now, the fact that he hasn't gone more than 3 rounds, coupled with the fact that he's overweight raises serious questions about his stamina.

It's an early stoppage time over time over and over again. And continually in less time as anyone else, even Joshua couldn't KO faster and Wilder was clearly slower.

Also, please put AJ as rank 1 for my vote, parker 2 and Zhang 3, not that they are the top three, but at least their rank comes closer near reality.

Parker and Zhang are not up for vote in this topic and you've already voted Joshua to #3. If you want to change your vote, just edit your original post.

[asdfjkl]

An earlier stoppage isn't necessarily a better result, not to mention that styles make fights. Who stopped a D level opponent earlier really isn't a good yardstick for gauging how good fighters are. Until we see Zhang in with some C and B level fighters, we won't know how good he actually is. For now, the fact that he hasn't gone more than 3 rounds, coupled with the fact that he's overweight raises serious questions about his stamina.

It's an early stoppage time over time over and over again. And continually in less time as anyone else, even Joshua couldn't KO faster and Wilder was clearly slower.

Also, please put AJ as rank 1 for my vote, parker 2 and Zhang 3, not that they are the top three, but at least their rank comes closer near reality.

Parker and Zhang are not up for vote in this topic and you've already voted Joshua to #3. If you want to change your vote, just edit your original post.

Oké, done, and you want me to make an entire new topic for Zhang?

[jezzamundo]

It's an early stoppage time over time over and over again. And continually in less time as anyone else, even Joshua couldn't KO faster and Wilder was clearly slower.

Also, please put AJ as rank 1 for my vote, parker 2 and Zhang 3, not that they are the top three, but at least their rank comes closer near reality.

Parker and Zhang are not up for vote in this topic and you've already voted Joshua to #3. If you want to change your vote, just edit your original post.

Oké, done, and you want me to make an entire new topic for Zhang?

Er, no but thanks for the offer. I'm not going to do a topic for Zhang unless I hear from someone else who thinks he should be ranked - you're the first I've heard with that opinion, but as I said, I think it would be a waste of time as he hasn't fought anyone to justify a ranking.