Rob3_142 wrote:When he was knocking them all out inside 3 rounds, people clearly got excited, but that's because nobody had punched him back at that point. AJ is currently the same, but just 1-2 steps further than Price. We're all waiting for his first real test, but every test so far he's come through. He may not meet a real test until he meets Fury/Haye, but at 16 fights in, you're hardly going to be wishing that fight on him. Either way, the tests will come, and probably in the next 12-18 months.
AJ hasn't fought anyone as good as Thompson or Teper yet, so he hasn't really proven that he is better than Price.
Joshua's IBF trinket is close to meaningless considering how very, very poor the champion he beat was.
Sometimes it's possible to look past records, opponents and the stats us Boxrecers love to analyse and just look at the ability of the guy.
I know it's against bums we are judging AJ but even to the most cynical Joshua critic (and i'm far from sold on him) it's fairly clear he is the more rounded boxer when compared to Price.
Rob3_142 wrote:When he was knocking them all out inside 3 rounds, people clearly got excited, but that's because nobody had punched him back at that point. AJ is currently the same, but just 1-2 steps further than Price. We're all waiting for his first real test, but every test so far he's come through. He may not meet a real test until he meets Fury/Haye, but at 16 fights in, you're hardly going to be wishing that fight on him. Either way, the tests will come, and probably in the next 12-18 months.
AJ hasn't fought anyone as good as Thompson or Teper yet, so he hasn't really proven that he is better than Price.
Joshua's IBF trinket is close to meaningless considering how very, very poor the champion he beat was.
Sometimes it's possible to look past records, opponents and the stats us Boxrecers love to analyse and just look at the ability of the guy.
I know it's against bums we are judging AJ but even to the most cynical Joshua critic (and i'm far from sold on him) it's fairly clear he is the more rounded boxer when compared to Price.
Yep. Price had very obvious chin weaknesses that anyone who watched him as an amateur should have been aware of. Joshua might not turn out to be as good as he's being hyped, but he clearly doesn't have the glaring fragility that Price always showed.
Horse wrote:AJ hasn't fought anyone as good as Thompson or Teper yet, so he hasn't really proven that he is better than Price.
Joshua's IBF trinket is close to meaningless considering how very, very poor the champion he beat was.
Sometimes it's possible to look past records, opponents and the stats us Boxrecers love to analyse and just look at the ability of the guy.
I know it's against bums we are judging AJ but even to the most cynical Joshua critic (and i'm far from sold on him) it's fairly clear he is the more rounded boxer when compared to Price.
Yep. Price had very obvious chin weaknesses that anyone who watched him as an amateur should have been aware of. Joshua might not turn out to be as good as he's being hyped, but he clearly doesn't have the glaring fragility that Price always showed.
It wasn't just his chin (which I had only heard about from those who knew the amateur scene)
Looking back I'm surprised we never spotted how very limited he was as a boxer. There's very little to his arsenal other than reach and that right hand. He gets the basics right and drops bombs, which perhaps papered over the crack.
But I struggle to believe I couldn't see he was little more than domestic class at the time
davie wrote:
I'm torn on this one.
Price and Helenius were hyped then never delivered.
Joshua however does actually look the real deal, (although we cant really say that fully till they've been tested. I know I know)
But on the other hand, the hype from Camp Eddie has been extraordinary
PPV for a BBBC title,
proclaimed as the next long reigning undisputed heavyweight champion of the universe
He so desperately want him to be his Lennox you can smell it
I think Britain is particularly bad at hyping up sports. I mean look what happens every time a World Cup comes around? 'We're guna win it!' And then what happens?
I think the British public see a young prospect, and just do the typical; 'He's the one!' David Price is a prime example, who clearly has some excellent attributes (his punching power for one), but was offset by his chin. When he was knocking them all out inside 3 rounds, people clearly got excited, but that's because nobody had punched him back at that point. AJ is currently the same, but just 1-2 steps further than Price. We're all waiting for his first real test, but every test so far he's come through. He may not meet a real test until he meets Fury/Haye, but at 16 fights in, you're hardly going to be wishing that fight on him. Either way, the tests will come, and probably in the next 12-18 months.
As a Scotsman I have to correct you.
The English tell us they'll win everything. Us Scots not only know we're sh1t, we sometimes take pride in it. The furthest we go bigging ourselves up is telling people we're going to qualify for tournaments (and still fall short)
In fact the same could be said in boxing.
I turned up to the Kelvin hall telling my mate Ricky burns will do well to see the second half of his first title bid against Rocky Martinez
Rob3_142 wrote:
I think Britain is particularly bad at hyping up sports. I mean look what happens every time a World Cup comes around? 'We're guna win it!' And then what happens?
I think the British public see a young prospect, and just do the typical; 'He's the one!' David Price is a prime example, who clearly has some excellent attributes (his punching power for one), but was offset by his chin. When he was knocking them all out inside 3 rounds, people clearly got excited, but that's because nobody had punched him back at that point. AJ is currently the same, but just 1-2 steps further than Price. We're all waiting for his first real test, but every test so far he's come through. He may not meet a real test until he meets Fury/Haye, but at 16 fights in, you're hardly going to be wishing that fight on him. Either way, the tests will come, and probably in the next 12-18 months.
As a Scotsman I have to correct you.
The English tell us they'll win everything. Us Scots not only know we're sh1t, we sometimes take pride in it. The furthest we go bigging ourselves up is telling people we're going to qualify for tournaments (and still fall short)
In fact the same could be said in boxing.
I turned up to the Kelvin hall telling my mate Ricky burns will do well to see the second half of his first title bid against Rocky Martinez
I stand corrected.
I notice you didn't put up much of an argument about Scotland being pish
As a Scotsman I have to correct you.
The English tell us they'll win everything. Us Scots not only know we're sh1t, we sometimes take pride in it. The furthest we go bigging ourselves up is telling people we're going to qualify for tournaments (and still fall short)
In fact the same could be said in boxing.
I turned up to the Kelvin hall telling my mate Ricky burns will do well to see the second half of his first title bid against Rocky Martinez
I stand corrected.
I notice you didn't put up much of an argument about Scotland being pish
Rob3_142 wrote:When he was knocking them all out inside 3 rounds, people clearly got excited, but that's because nobody had punched him back at that point. AJ is currently the same, but just 1-2 steps further than Price. We're all waiting for his first real test, but every test so far he's come through. He may not meet a real test until he meets Fury/Haye, but at 16 fights in, you're hardly going to be wishing that fight on him. Either way, the tests will come, and probably in the next 12-18 months.
AJ hasn't fought anyone as good as Thompson or Teper yet, so he hasn't really proven that he is better than Price.
Joshua's IBF trinket is close to meaningless considering how very, very poor the champion he beat was.
I didn't say he was better than price, I said he's 1-2 steps further on. And I'm not qualifying his IBF title as anything meaningful, and neither has Joshua come to think of it. It's just more progressive at the same stage of career.
As a Scotsman I have to correct you.
The English tell us they'll win everything. Us Scots not only know we're sh1t, we sometimes take pride in it. The furthest we go bigging ourselves up is telling people we're going to qualify for tournaments (and still fall short)
In fact the same could be said in boxing.
I turned up to the Kelvin hall telling my mate Ricky burns will do well to see the second half of his first title bid against Rocky Martinez
I stand corrected.
I notice you didn't put up much of an argument about Scotland being pish
Those Scottish lasses in the curling are outstanding!
Rob3_142 wrote:I didn't say he was better than price, I said he's 1-2 steps further on. And I'm not qualifying his IBF title as anything meaningful, and neither has Joshua come to think of it. It's just more progressive at the same stage of career.
Is he really 1-2 steps further on?
He looks significantly better than Price, but he hasn't really proven it by beating better opposition than Price beat or lost to.
Whyte and Martin might be better than Harrison, McDermott, Thompson and Teper but they haven't really proven it.
Rob3_142 wrote:I didn't say he was better than price, I said he's 1-2 steps further on. And I'm not qualifying his IBF title as anything meaningful, and neither has Joshua come to think of it. It's just more progressive at the same stage of career.
Is he really 1-2 steps further on?
He looks significantly better than Price, but he hasn't really proven it by beating better opposition than Price beat or lost to.
Whyte and Martin might be better than Harrison, McDermott, Thompson and Teper but they haven't really proven it.
Horse, for once your agenda has intersected reality. Joshua has nothing except Whyte and Martin, and we know nothing about them (except how ordinary Martin is). Joshua does look more confident and competent than Price, but there's no guarantee he won't fold in his first test (when it finally comes, probably in 2019, and that by accident).
As a Scotsman I have to correct you.
The English tell us they'll win everything. Us Scots not only know we're sh1t, we sometimes take pride in it. The furthest we go bigging ourselves up is telling people we're going to qualify for tournaments (and still fall short)
In fact the same could be said in boxing.
I turned up to the Kelvin hall telling my mate Ricky burns will do well to see the second half of his first title bid against Rocky Martinez
I stand corrected.
I notice you didn't put up much of an argument about Scotland being pish
It's shite being Scottish (Trainspotting). I was the same at the Burns fight bud. Two of my mates I was with are only casual fans and I said it would be the usual glorious failure that we Scots seem to take a perverse pride in!
Rob3_142 wrote:I didn't say he was better than price, I said he's 1-2 steps further on. And I'm not qualifying his IBF title as anything meaningful, and neither has Joshua come to think of it. It's just more progressive at the same stage of career.
Is he really 1-2 steps further on?
He looks significantly better than Price, but he hasn't really proven it by beating better opposition than Price beat or lost to.
Whyte and Martin might be better than Harrison, McDermott, Thompson and Teper but they haven't really proven it.
Well yes he is definitely one step further on than price after 16 fights. Whether or not the IBF is considered a serious heavy weight championship, and whether or not it was a valid route to gaining it, he is 1/4 of the way to unifying the heavyweight division, whereas Price was scraping himself up off the canvas. If Thompson fought Martin, I'm not absolutely sure who would come out on top of that one, and the same between Whyte and Teper. I think in terms of levels of opponent, there's probably not a lot in it, probably Joshua edging it.
But aside from the accolades inside the ring, Joshua has a much bigger profile, whereas after 16 fights Price was still a relatively unknown. Although that's not entirely Price's fault, it definitely means that Joshua is a further step ahead of Price after 16 fights.
Fat Git wrote:
Exactly, what is so hard to understand 'the vast majority of heavyweights get derailed sooner or later'.
Except Joshua is no Ali - not even a prime Michael Dokes.
So your point is, noone should be a fan of any heavyweight, because one day it's likely he will get stopped.
You are just being a moron on purpose, never mind...
You were probably on the David Price hype train, which stopped permemantly at Lime Street.
What I am saying is dead simple, don't go around hyping them to the gills, especially after only 16 fights, I was like you with Frank Bruno AND Errol Christie, except I was 12 years old.
In fact, you remind me of how I would have been if boxrec had been around in 1984.
Wow, you're such a sage, going around not being interested in boxers because one day they will lose, so you can then turn round and say 'I told you he'd get knocked out!' I feel so honoured to know that one day I might be like the present-day you as opposed to the 1984 version.
Here's a tip. Forget the hype and assess a fighter on their merits, not on the white noise that comes with them. Just because a fighter is built up to the full capacity (shock horror, imagine the thought of marketing a prized asset!) doesn't mean you should automatically discredit them. Try and enjoy the boxing rather than enjoying bashing the publicity that comes with it, it might work out for you.
Riddick Blowe wrote:
So your point is, noone should be a fan of any heavyweight, because one day it's likely he will get stopped.
You are just being a moron on purpose, never mind...
You were probably on the David Price hype train, which stopped permemantly at Lime Street.
What I am saying is dead simple, don't go around hyping them to the gills, especially after only 16 fights, I was like you with Frank Bruno AND Errol Christie, except I was 12 years old.
In fact, you remind me of how I would have been if boxrec had been around in 1984.
Wow, you're such a sage, going around not being interested in boxers because one day they will lose, so you can then turn round and say 'I told you he'd get knocked out!' I feel so honoured to know that one day I might be like the present-day you as opposed to the 1984 version.
Here's a tip. Forget the hype and assess a fighter on their merits, not on the white noise that comes with them. Just because a fighter is built up to the full capacity (shock horror, imagine the thought of marketing a prized asset!) doesn't mean you should automatically discredit them. Try and enjoy the boxing rather than enjoying bashing the publicity that comes with it, it might work out for you.
Quite right - I get sick and tired of all the negativity. I don't get it. Sure, he's been hyped up a tad, but what does anyone expect, boxing is run by PROMOTERS, it's their business to promote, so they get return on their investment. Simple as.
I don't take much notice of all the waffle that comes with boxing, never really did, even when I was writing about it, I found all the preamble stuff pretty boring.
cutsman wrote:I can't fight it anymore. Yes he's had a bit of a dodgy past. No he's probably not as humble as he and Eddie keep insisting, but...
I admire his positive attitude and he admits that there is more work ahead of him before he can really be classed as the champ. I liked it when he laughed after the second Martin knock down as he realised it was a bit of a joke fight and wasn't afraid to show that.
He's English and he talks a good game. I like him and wish him all the success his hard work will bring him. There, I said it. I feel better now.
Why, Fury not English enough and don't talk enough for ya?
cutsman wrote:I can't fight it anymore. Yes he's had a bit of a dodgy past. No he's probably not as humble as he and Eddie keep insisting, but...
I admire his positive attitude and he admits that there is more work ahead of him before he can really be classed as the champ. I liked it when he laughed after the second Martin knock down as he realised it was a bit of a joke fight and wasn't afraid to show that.
He's English and he talks a good game. I like him and wish him all the success his hard work will bring him. There, I said it. I feel better now.
Why, Fury not English enough and don't talk enough for ya?
Judging by his tattoo and his parentage, Joshua is Nigerian.
ttornado wrote:
English of Nigerian heritage.
His humble act is due to this kind of thinking.
Similar to how Joe Louis had to act a certain way.
Also, Joshua can be regarded as 'British' (which is a nationality) but he can't be 'English' (which is an ethnicity.....)
English is an ethnicity? What a load of old cobblers!
Celtic is an ethnicity. English is a mish mash of Celts, Roman, Saxon, Danish (& Scandanavia) and now many many others.
Are you saying only white people can be English or is there some other explanation to your ridiculous statement?
If Joshua wants to call himself English, he has every right to do so.
Right..... So what is your definition of ethnicity? Are you genuinely trying to suggest that Celts, Romans, Danish (er an actual nationality / passport), Saxons are independently homogeneous and identifiable by exact DNA strands?
Also, Joshua can be regarded as 'British' (which is a nationality) but he can't be 'English' (which is an ethnicity.....)
English is an ethnicity? What a load of old cobblers!
Celtic is an ethnicity. English is a mish mash of Celts, Roman, Saxon, Danish (& Scandanavia) and now many many others.
Are you saying only white people can be English or is there some other explanation to your ridiculous statement?
If Joshua wants to call himself English, he has every right to do so.
And Angles, Jutes and Normans, in addition to the above. One thing they all have in common, they're very white.
It's odd how people are so eager to be offended by an observation of pure reality.
So called ethnicity and race are hard concepts to pin down. Leftists love to tell us there's not
such thing as race whilst supporting specifically Afro-Carribean (whatever that means) causes and charities and black rights.
Very contradictory. I'm from now on declaring myself as half Inuit, half Pitcairn islander (even though I've never been close to either areas) as according to Taansend, if I want to call myself that, I have every right to!
Also, Joshua can be regarded as 'British' (which is a nationality) but he can't be 'English' (which is an ethnicity.....)
English is an ethnicity? What a load of old cobblers!
Celtic is an ethnicity. English is a mish mash of Celts, Roman, Saxon, Danish (& Scandanavia) and now many many others.
Are you saying only white people can be English or is there some other explanation to your ridiculous statement?
If Joshua wants to call himself English, he has every right to do so.
Right..... So what is your definition of ethnicity? Are you genuinely trying to suggest that Celts, Romans, Danish (er an actual nationality / passport), Saxons are independently homogeneous and identifiable by exact DNA strands?
Let's put this another way. Do you consider Carl Froch to be British but not English because of his Eastern European ancestry?
Taansend wrote:
English is an ethnicity? What a load of old cobblers!
Celtic is an ethnicity. English is a mish mash of Celts, Roman, Saxon, Danish (& Scandanavia) and now many many others.
Are you saying only white people can be English or is there some other explanation to your ridiculous statement?
If Joshua wants to call himself English, he has every right to do so.
And Angles, Jutes and Normans, in addition to the above. One thing they all have in common, they're very white.
It's odd how people are so eager to be offended by an observation of pure reality.
So called ethnicity and race are hard concepts to pin down. Leftists love to tell us there's not
such thing as race whilst supporting specifically Afro-Carribean (whatever that means) causes and charities and black rights.
Very contradictory. I'm from now on declaring myself as half Inuit, half Pitcairn islander (even though I've never been close to either areas) as according to Taansend, if I want to call myself that, I have every right to!
If you were born there & (or) grew up there then you have every right to call yourself a Pitcairn islander. And don''t you let any petty small minded person tell you otherwise.
Taansend wrote:If you were born there & (or) grew up there then you have every right to call yourself a Pitcairn islander. And don''t you let any petty small minded person tell you otherwise.
What if the person you consider a "petty small minded person" is an ethnographer?
