OK I confess. I'm on the AJ train.

[jamesmcdonnell]

What fables are we talking about on here? You keep lying or trying to change the subject, Jim. We're not talking about men saying they're women. Not sure why you need to talk about that at this moment

You've tried attacking my vocabulary, talking about fables & trans gender when no one else has been.

All I'm asking is if Joshua can't be English because of foreign ancestry then does that mean Froch can't be. You don't need to know much about it. Everything is there in the question.

I know you're not going to answer & will instead talk about language, Miss Merkal, fables Manx cats or attempt another childish attack on me or maybe something not relevant to any of this. And the more you evade it, the worse you look.

All the best, mate.

First of all I haven't attacked your vocabulary. The fact you would think that makes me wonder about you. I am admiring however the great pains you are going to in order to frame a straight-forward question with a simple answer as something inflammatory and indecent.

You say Calzaghe considers himself a Welsh man. Great. But does that London-born son of an Italian have one drop of Welsh in him? I don't know. Maybe he does. I'm not interested enough to research.

Froch, likewise, I know nothing of his ancestry, zilch. But your question to me, as I understand it, and assuming your facts are straight, is: does Carl Froch not being a full-blooded English man mean he is not a full-blooded English man?

I don't understand why you require Dr. Jim's assistance in answering this question.

I don't know who Dr Jim is. Sorry.

I also don't understand this sentence "does Carl Froch not being a full-blooded English man mean he is not a full-blooded English man? "

Cheers

Maybe it's a pop at me?

I quite like Dr Jim though, so I'm cool with that. It gives me an air of gravitas and authority, I feel a name change coming on.

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

It must pain you to admit it, but boxing actually needs the louts, the laymans and layabouts like me to be 'fed this shite'

You are absolutely not needed, I watch more of the good old stuff these days than watch PPV shite.

The problem is the feeling you have to 'buy the shite' like it's peer pressure or something.

I don't

You can make up your own opinion without needing to feel you are being told what to do

I do

Would the opinions of many people like you be any different if Joshua was quietly rising through the ranks under an obscure promoting outfit without much noise?

Boxing is broken, your problem is you don't remember anything else, I do, and it has gone downhill and I have lost interest in it as have a lot of other people.

But instead, because a big promoter is, you know, promoting, like they have done since the beginning of the sport by the way, we get the good old sour trademark British scared of a winner mentality, and the fence-sitting sages that have 'seen it all before' and are desperate for it all to fail so they can look superior. That is a problem.

Or, the punter believes that they aren't getting a good value for money product, if I pay for PPV and get crap, one sided fights and a million ads, I am not going to pay for it again, why should anyone be treated like a mug?

[Rob3_142]

This message is to the pair of you.

Boxing and the hype has got really boring now, you can tell with the quality of post on this very forum how it has gone downhill all over the board. AJ has just won a quarter of a world title in his 16th bout by beating a very lacklustre opponent, if that switches on your lights, well, what can I say? I am happy it makes you happy but don't be getting all upset because others don't buy the same shite as you do.

And Riddick, you will probably never be like me, I hope you get to enjoy boxing in its present form for the rest of your days, some people just cannot see the woods for the effing trees.

You have to realise that hype is not reserved just for boxing, it is a by product of sport. In fact I wouldn't even go as far as to say that it's about sport any more, it's about money. The money generated in boxing and football is massive. Where there's money, there's hype, to try and make more money. Why do you think they build up football games for weeks on end in the build up? 'Chelsea vs. Man City coming soon!', daily advertisements of; 'Battle of the titans!', then what happens? They limp to a 0-0 draw, but 12 million people have watched it. Companies like Sky are not interested in providing good entertainment, they are only interested in the colour of your money. They just have to try provide entertainment so you'll at least come back again. Why do you think the likes of BT and SKY are fighting so hard for the rights to host Premier League games? Why do you think they invested £3 billion into domestic football?

The hype does one thing, it captures the interest of the general public (which probably make up 99% of the audience). If SKY are selling Joshua vs. Whyte on PPV, and they don't hype it up, how many do they sell? 50k? In fact, how much of the die hard boxing fans buy that fight? Now they've suckered the general public in with all this hype, they sold 400k+. Imagine you're the CEO of SKY. What do you do? You hire hype machine Eddie Hearn.

Whether or not you think Anthony Joshua in his 16th fight, fighting a bum for a world championship belt, is worthy of PPV (or even the British title v Dillian Whyte for that matter) is completely irrelevant. Why? Cause SKY and Matchroom have made an absolute fortune on it. A prime example of sport vs brand is the PDC darts association and the BDO darts association. One has a platform (PDC -> SKY) and the other does not. Which organisation makes the most money and pays the most in prize money? I'll let you figure that one out.

[Bard of Boxrec]

Well said. Also, good point about the 16th fight and title thing. For the moment, Joshua is a paper champ just like Wilder and Chagaev and whoever else holds a dubious strap in the division. Fury's position as The Champ will be a grudging footnote in their telecast. When you have as much interest as has been displayed in Joshua, this will not, and will never, stop a promotional outfit from spinning that their guy is top of the pile, or heading for that spot, and subsequently allowing them to bring in the gold. Real fans know better, but who cares about real fans?

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

This message is to the pair of you.

Boxing and the hype has got really boring now, you can tell with the quality of post on this very forum how it has gone downhill all over the board. AJ has just won a quarter of a world title in his 16th bout by beating a very lacklustre opponent, if that switches on your lights, well, what can I say? I am happy it makes you happy but don't be getting all upset because others don't buy the same shite as you do.

And Riddick, you will probably never be like me, I hope you get to enjoy boxing in its present form for the rest of your days, some people just cannot see the woods for the effing trees.

You have to realise that hype is not reserved just for boxing, it is a by product of sport. In fact I wouldn't even go as far as to say that it's about sport any more, it's about money. The money generated in boxing and football is massive. Where there's money, there's hype, to try and make more money. Why do you think they build up football games for weeks on end in the build up? 'Chelsea vs. Man City coming soon!', daily advertisements of; 'Battle of the titans!', then what happens? They limp to a 0-0 draw, but 12 million people have watched it. Companies like Sky are not interested in providing good entertainment, they are only interested in the colour of your money. They just have to try provide entertainment so you'll at least come back again. Why do you think the likes of BT and SKY are fighting so hard for the rights to host Premier League games? Why do you think they invested £3 billion into domestic football?

The hype does one thing, it captures the interest of the general public (which probably make up 99% of the audience). If SKY are selling Joshua vs. Whyte on PPV, and they don't hype it up, how many do they sell? 50k? In fact, how much of the die hard boxing fans buy that fight? Now they've suckered the general public in with all this hype, they sold 400k+. Imagine you're the CEO of SKY. What do you do? You hire hype machine Eddie Hearn.

Whether or not you think Anthony Joshua in his 16th fight, fighting a bum for a world championship belt, is worthy of PPV (or even the British title v Dillian Whyte for that matter) is completely irrelevant. Why? Cause SKY and Matchroom have made an absolute fortune on it. A prime example of sport vs brand is the PDC darts association and the BDO darts association. One has a platform (PDC -> SKY) and the other does not. Which organisation makes the most money and pays the most in prize money? I'll let you figure that one out.

This is a boxing nerd website, which is why it attracted the interest of insiders such as Bunce, the Smith brothers, Frank Maloney, The Connolly's, various referees and respected journeymen - the last thing we need here are people hyping up known garbage because it is what Sky does, we should be a bit more discerning seeing as we know something about the sport.

If mug punter (no offence to Riddick Blowe by the way) who doesn't know anything about boxing before Carl Froch and thinks Frank Bruno is a HP sauce salesman then all that above is fine, here - not so much.

[Rob3_142]

Well said. Also, good point about the 16th fight and title thing. For the moment, Joshua is a paper champ just like Wilder and Chagaev and whoever else holds a dubious strap in the division. Fury's position as The Champ will be a grudging footnote in their telecast. When you have as much interest as has been displayed in Joshua, this will not, and will never, stop a promotional outfit from spinning that their guy is top of the pile, or heading for that spot, and subsequently allowing them to bring in the gold. Real fans know better, but who cares about real fans?

Not SKY!

[Bard of Boxrec]

There is only one ethnicity: The human ethnicity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rEBtpWQ7x8

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

Well said. Also, good point about the 16th fight and title thing. For the moment, Joshua is a paper champ just like Wilder and Chagaev and whoever else holds a dubious strap in the division. Fury's position as The Champ will be a grudging footnote in their telecast. When you have as much interest as has been displayed in Joshua, this will not, and will never, stop a promotional outfit from spinning that their guy is top of the pile, or heading for that spot, and subsequently allowing them to bring in the gold. Real fans know better, but who cares about real fans?

And there we have it, and delivered without any irony? You betcha.

[Bard of Boxrec]

Well said. Also, good point about the 16th fight and title thing. For the moment, Joshua is a paper champ just like Wilder and Chagaev and whoever else holds a dubious strap in the division. Fury's position as The Champ will be a grudging footnote in their telecast. When you have as much interest as has been displayed in Joshua, this will not, and will never, stop a promotional outfit from spinning that their guy is top of the pile, or heading for that spot, and subsequently allowing them to bring in the gold. Real fans know better, but who cares about real fans?

And there we have it, and delivered without any irony? You betcha.

Dying to know the issue you have this time.

[Rob3_142]

This is a boxing nerd website, which is why it attracted the interest of insiders such as Bunce, the Smith brothers, Frank Maloney, The Connolly's, various referees and respected journeymen - the last thing we need here are people hyping up known garbage because it is what Sky does, we should be a bit more discerning seeing as we know something about the sport.

If mug punter (no offence to Riddick Blowe by the way) who doesn't know anything about boxing before Carl Froch and thinks Frank Bruno is a HP sauce salesman then all that above is fine, here - not so much.

Yeah but what can you do when something like SKY capture the interest of the general public? I'm a prime example of what SKY have achieved. I didn't take a great deal of interest in boxing prior to the 2012 Olympics. But after watching some AJ fights I got more and more interested, and wanted to know more about boxing, and know more about the boxers, and in the process of trying to find out more about AJ's next fight I stumbled across this forum. Are you saying I cannot be a part of this forum because I have not been a devout boxing fan for 25 years?

[Bard of Boxrec]

the last thing we need here are people hyping up known garbage because it is what Sky does, we should be a bit more discerning seeing as we know something about the sport.

Sage confirmed! Joshua is known garbage apparently - and entirely because of his promoter doing a good job! Not sure how that logic works exactly, but this is Fat Git we are dealing with here.

[Tuan_Jim]

Are you trying to say that Anthony Joshua 'barely assimilates' into England, Miss Jones?

Well we have the richest language in the world and he only bothers to use about 10 words of it.

So this isn't attacking my vocabulary? It's actually a compliment. Well thank you.

I'm obviously referring to Anthony Joshua. We are discussing Anthony Joshua in that interchange. I even wrote "he", not "you." Are you Anthony Joshua? If not, why are you imagining my response to your question about Anthony Joshua is about anyone else other than Anthony Joshua?

[Bard of Boxrec]

This topic inspiring two different heated arguments running parallel is as good evidence as any of the value of Joshua being marketing heavily

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

This is a boxing nerd website, which is why it attracted the interest of insiders such as Bunce, the Smith brothers, Frank Maloney, The Connolly's, various referees and respected journeymen - the last thing we need here are people hyping up known garbage because it is what Sky does, we should be a bit more discerning seeing as we know something about the sport.

If mug punter (no offence to Riddick Blowe by the way) who doesn't know anything about boxing before Carl Froch and thinks Frank Bruno is a HP sauce salesman then all that above is fine, here - not so much.

Yeah but what can you do when something like SKY capture the interest of the general public? I'm a prime example of what SKY have achieved. I didn't take a great deal of interest in boxing prior to the 2012 Olympics. But after watching some AJ fights I got more and more interested, and wanted to know more about boxing, and know more about the boxers, and in the process of trying to find out more about AJ's next fight I stumbled across this forum. Are you saying I cannot be a part of this forum because I have not been a devout boxing fan for 25 years?

So, you don't know how it used to be, it used to be great. Therefore, because I have the knowledge of how it used to be, I am allowed to voice if something is shite compared to yesteryear without you getting upset because it is bursting your little bubble. Now, if you are enjoying what is being offered up now, great - no-one is arguing for that, but remember that people here have boxing histories going back prior to 2012 and they might not be as happy a camper as you. That is all I am saying.

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

the last thing we need here are people hyping up known garbage because it is what Sky does, we should be a bit more discerning seeing as we know something about the sport.

Sage confirmed! Joshua is known garbage apparently - and entirely because of his promoter doing a good job! Not sure how that logic works exactly, but this is Fat Git we are dealing with here.

Where did I say Joshua is garbage? That fight with Martin was garbage is though. I bet you have an English Lit degree too, how sad.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Well said. Also, good point about the 16th fight and title thing. For the moment, Joshua is a paper champ just like Wilder and Chagaev and whoever else holds a dubious strap in the division. Fury's position as The Champ will be a grudging footnote in their telecast. When you have as much interest as has been displayed in Joshua, this will not, and will never, stop a promotional outfit from spinning that their guy is top of the pile, or heading for that spot, and subsequently allowing them to bring in the gold. Real fans know better, but who cares about real fans?

I think for a lot of people, sport has just become part of the overall entertainment package, something you get on subscription, or buy in - almost everyone now has on demand TV, it's the norm, and so people choose from a smorgasbord of entertainment.

[jamesmcdonnell]

This is a boxing nerd website, which is why it attracted the interest of insiders such as Bunce, the Smith brothers, Frank Maloney, The Connolly's, various referees and respected journeymen - the last thing we need here are people hyping up known garbage because it is what Sky does, we should be a bit more discerning seeing as we know something about the sport.

If mug punter (no offence to Riddick Blowe by the way) who doesn't know anything about boxing before Carl Froch and thinks Frank Bruno is a HP sauce salesman then all that above is fine, here - not so much.

Yeah but what can you do when something like SKY capture the interest of the general public? I'm a prime example of what SKY have achieved. I didn't take a great deal of interest in boxing prior to the 2012 Olympics. But after watching some AJ fights I got more and more interested, and wanted to know more about boxing, and know more about the boxers, and in the process of trying to find out more about AJ's next fight I stumbled across this forum. Are you saying I cannot be a part of this forum because I have not been a devout boxing fan for 25 years?

So, you don't know how it used to be, it used to be great. Therefore, because I have the knowledge of how it used to be, I am allowed to voice if something is shite compared to yesteryear without you getting upset because it is bursting your little bubble. Now, if you are enjoying what is being offered up now, great - no-one is arguing for that, but remember that people here have boxing histories going back prior to 2012 and they might not be as happy a camper as you. That is all I am saying.

You're being rather patronising here. For the record, I DO remember how it used to be, I am old enough to have seen Ali v Spinks II as probably my first boxing match on TV (not a great example admittedly)

For the record, I enjoy watching Joshua - I'm realistic about the level of competition he's faced, which is poor, but also about the fact it's a very poor division, and has been for some time. I don't really think any of the new crop are that great, but Joshua is at least exciting to watch, and destructive, what's not to like - sure, he may get exposed, we can't be sure, but so what?

I know boxing has many problems, too numerous to start listing here, and yes the hype is at times utterly ridiculous, but promoters have to sell their product to make a living, and broadcasters have to aid them in doing so to generate profit. It has ever been thus, but now with the proliferation of sports on tv its more ubiquitous than ever.

[Rob3_142]

This is a boxing nerd website, which is why it attracted the interest of insiders such as Bunce, the Smith brothers, Frank Maloney, The Connolly's, various referees and respected journeymen - the last thing we need here are people hyping up known garbage because it is what Sky does, we should be a bit more discerning seeing as we know something about the sport.

If mug punter (no offence to Riddick Blowe by the way) who doesn't know anything about boxing before Carl Froch and thinks Frank Bruno is a HP sauce salesman then all that above is fine, here - not so much.

Yeah but what can you do when something like SKY capture the interest of the general public? I'm a prime example of what SKY have achieved. I didn't take a great deal of interest in boxing prior to the 2012 Olympics. But after watching some AJ fights I got more and more interested, and wanted to know more about boxing, and know more about the boxers, and in the process of trying to find out more about AJ's next fight I stumbled across this forum. Are you saying I cannot be a part of this forum because I have not been a devout boxing fan for 25 years?

So, you don't know how it used to be, it used to be great. Therefore, because I have the knowledge of how it used to be, I am allowed to voice if something is shite compared to yesteryear without you getting upset because it is bursting your little bubble. Now, if you are enjoying what is being offered up now, great - no-one is arguing for that, but remember that people here have boxing histories going back prior to 2012 and they might not be as happy a camper as you. That is all I am saying.

Hey all I can do is experience what's happening now, and you have to accept that the sport is evolving, whether you like it or not.

I personally am enjoying what I see developing in the Heavyweight division, regardless of the hype, and look forward to some big fights in the hopefully not to distant future. Unfortunately my lack of a time machine restricts me to enjoying the present boxing scene as opposed to the one from yesteryear.

[Boxerbeetle]

This is a boxing nerd website, which is why it attracted the interest of insiders such as Bunce, the Smith brothers, Frank Maloney, The Connolly's, various referees and respected journeymen - the last thing we need here are people hyping up known garbage because it is what Sky does, we should be a bit more discerning seeing as we know something about the sport.

How dare you.

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

You're being rather patronising here. For the record, I DO remember how it used to be, I am old enough to have seen Ali v Spinks II as probably my first boxing match on TV (not a great example admittedly)

I am not being funny here, but if I remember your posts on vivi.com back in 2000 - you didn't really know that much - of course, you have come leaps and bounds now, good for you. How's that for patronising?

The thing is right, I don't give a monkeys uncle what sky are, boxing was around for 100's of years before sky and it will around - maybe a 100 years after it. I don't have to like it, not getting caught up in the hype doesn't make me a 'hater' I don't care what sky's involvement in boxing, they are not the wholesale identity of boxing and to say they are is being crass and ignorant.

If you want to involve yourself with the hype, then good for you, no-one is stopping you. However, this is a boxing website and we are allowed to write opinions on the subject you may not like - it is allowed.

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

Yeah but what can you do when something like SKY capture the interest of the general public? I'm a prime example of what SKY have achieved. I didn't take a great deal of interest in boxing prior to the 2012 Olympics. But after watching some AJ fights I got more and more interested, and wanted to know more about boxing, and know more about the boxers, and in the process of trying to find out more about AJ's next fight I stumbled across this forum. Are you saying I cannot be a part of this forum because I have not been a devout boxing fan for 25 years?

So, you don't know how it used to be, it used to be great. Therefore, because I have the knowledge of how it used to be, I am allowed to voice if something is shite compared to yesteryear without you getting upset because it is bursting your little bubble. Now, if you are enjoying what is being offered up now, great - no-one is arguing for that, but remember that people here have boxing histories going back prior to 2012 and they might not be as happy a camper as you. That is all I am saying.

Hey all I can do is experience what's happening now, and you have to accept that the sport is evolving, whether you like it or not.

I personally am enjoying what I see developing in the Heavyweight division, regardless of the hype, and look forward to some big fights in the hopefully not to distant future. Unfortunately my lack of a time machine restricts me to enjoying the present boxing scene as opposed to the one from yesteryear.

Fine, who is saying you can't - Rob-142 - good, I hope you enjoy the ride immensely.

We come from different vantage points regarding this. This is a forum where people can air views, and I am not on my own regarding this either, you'll just have to accept or ignore.

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

This is a boxing nerd website, which is why it attracted the interest of insiders such as Bunce, the Smith brothers, Frank Maloney, The Connolly's, various referees and respected journeymen - the last thing we need here are people hyping up known garbage because it is what Sky does, we should be a bit more discerning seeing as we know something about the sport.

How dare you.

Indeed. :)

[Horse]

What are people even arguing about?

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

What are people even arguing about?

fornicate knows, blame that tosser riddlick blowe - not me!

[Bard of Boxrec]

What are people even arguing about?

Fat Git: Argh, hype! Wah wah wah!
Everyone else: Marketing is marketing

God knows what Tuan and Taansend are on about.