OK I confess. I'm on the AJ train.

[Mimmy]

You have a lot of love for Tyson Fury, Horse, surely everyone is entitled to love who they want, we live in a democratic country. Everyone is entitled to an opinion whether one agrees or not.

He's the one who seems to struggle with the idea of people not thinking Joshua is the most incredible fighter on earth.

Tyson Fury is the undisputed champion. He's proven how amazing he is. Joshua has not beaten one world class opponent.

Boxing is not boxing in the 90's no more Horse. AJ is boxing whos out there that are available to fight. Boxers will not face each other anymore just for the glory of the fight. They all want big paydays and titles, its not possible to accomdate every boxer with a huge sum of money and a title. times have changed from he days of one to three belts. There are no opponents that want to face each other for nothing. Its getting beyond the joke all this politics crap. But its here to stay.

[Horse]

Boxing is not boxing in the 90's no more Horse. AJ is boxing whos out there that are available to fight. Boxers will not face each other anymore just for the glory of the fight. They all want big paydays and titles, its not possible to accomdate every boxer with a huge sum of money and a title. times have changed from he days of one to three belts. There are no opponents that want to face each other for nothing. Its getting beyond the joke all this politics crap. But its here to stay.

Joshua is not avoided at all.

[Bard of Boxrec]

The division is shallow. It won't be soon though.

Why not?

Parker, wilder, Joshua, haye will be in the mix. Ortiz can definitely beat Joshua. That's his only threat.

Anyway my equine friend, answer me this if you will. What startling win on fury's record made you think he was going to beat wlad? Just curious .

[Mimmy]

Boxing is not boxing in the 90's no more Horse. AJ is boxing whos out there that are available to fight. Boxers will not face each other anymore just for the glory of the fight. They all want big paydays and titles, its not possible to accomdate every boxer with a huge sum of money and a title. times have changed from he days of one to three belts. There are no opponents that want to face each other for nothing. Its getting beyond the joke all this politics crap. But its here to stay.

Joshua is not avoided at all.

But he isnt avoiding anyone though is he?

[Stuarty]

Boxing is not boxing in the 90's no more Horse. AJ is boxing whos out there that are available to fight. Boxers will not face each other anymore just for the glory of the fight. They all want big paydays and titles, its not possible to accomdate every boxer with a huge sum of money and a title. times have changed from he days of one to three belts. There are no opponents that want to face each other for nothing. Its getting beyond the joke all this politics crap. But its here to stay.

Joshua is not avoided at all.

But he isnt avoiding anyone though is he?

Both true. Think he knows his limits as things stand. I doubt he'd (want to or be allowed to) jump in with Fury next but it's not far away. He's not avoided either. Martin hawked his title to AJ because of the money involved.

[Horse]

But he isnt avoiding anyone though is he?

That doesn't matter, his record is still very weak by world level standards.

[Bard of Boxrec]

But he isnt avoiding anyone though is he?

That doesn't matter, his record is still very weak by world level standards.

Do you think Joshua would struggle with any of fury's foes pre wlad?

[Mimmy]

But he isnt avoiding anyone though is he?

That doesn't matter, his record is still very weak by world level standards.

The world level standards are very weak though.

[Horse]

Do you think Joshua would struggle with any of fury's foes pre wlad?

Yes.

Cunningham and Chisora could well have beaten him.

[Horse]

The world level standards are very weak though.

Which makes Joshua's record all the more weak.

[Bard of Boxrec]

Do you think Joshua would struggle with any of fury's foes pre wlad?

Yes.

Cunningham and Chisora could well have beaten him.

Come on horse. You may sleep in your own faeces but you're not stupid.

Actually, I have no idea about that. Maybe you are stupid. I can't decide.

[Mimmy]

The world level standards are very weak though.

Which makes Joshua's record all the more weak.

Not really,not in todays standards, but yes in 90's standards but that would also count for Tyson Fury too.

[Horse]

Not really,not in todays standards, but yes in 90's standards but that would also count for Tyson Fury too.

No.

Joshua's record is terrible for a world champion, absolutely horrendous.

Even in this very weak heavyweight division he has still not fought a genuine top 15 ranked fighter.

He is very much unproven and I'm not sure why anyone would try to suggest otherwise.

[ttornado]

Joshua's record is terrible for a world champion, absolutely horrendous.

But for someone with only 16 fights it's an OK record.

[Horse]

But for someone with only 16 fights it's an OK record.

Yes.

If people stopped trying to suggest that Joshua is in anyway a proven world class fighter then I wouldn't have to mention just how weak his record is.

[Boxerbeetle]

Was the 90s heavyweight scene considered strong then? Other than the obvious 2 or 3 big names, I distinctly remember it being disparaged in a similar way as we disparage the current crop.

[Mimmy]

Was the 90s heavyweight scene considered strong then? Other than the obvious 2 or 3 big names, I distinctly remember it being disparaged in a similar way as we disparage the current crop.

I think there were a lot of tough fighters back in the 90's not saying they became world champions but many a decent fighter.

[keithmoonhangover]

But for someone with only 16 fights it's an OK record.

Yes.

If people stopped trying to suggest that Joshua is in anyway a proven world class fighter then I wouldn't have to mention just how weak his record is.

Who would he need to beat to become a world class boxer?

[Mimmy]

But for someone with only 16 fights it's an OK record.

Yes.

If people stopped trying to suggest that Joshua is in anyway a proven world class fighter then I wouldn't have to mention just how weak his record is.

Who would he need to beat to become a world class boxer?

Thats a good point, Chisora???

[keithmoonhangover]

Yes.

If people stopped trying to suggest that Joshua is in anyway a proven world class fighter then I wouldn't have to mention just how weak his record is.

Who would he need to beat to become a world class boxer?

Thats a good point, Chisora???

I think Chisora is done at world level. It's slim pickings. I mean, Martin was top ten.

[Horse]

I think Chisora is done at world level. It's slim pickings. I mean, Martin was top ten.

He wasn't.

[keithmoonhangover]

I think Chisora is done at world level. It's slim pickings. I mean, Martin was top ten.

He wasn't.

Boxrec and The Ring say he was.

[crusader]

What did Martin accomplish to become a legitimate top ten HW?

He beat no one of note prior to Glazkov, and his title victory was due to his opponent's leg giving out after 2 slow opening rounds in which neither man built a lead across the cards. Glazkov arguably deserved to have three losses on his record going into that fight and wasn't a strong contender anyway.

[keithmoonhangover]

What did Martin accomplish to become a legitimate top ten HW?

He beat no one of note prior to Glazkov, and his title victory was due to his opponent's leg giving out after 2 slow opening rounds in which neither man built a lead across the cards. Glazkov arguably deserved to have three losses on his record going into that fight and wasn't a strong contender anyway.

He beat Glazkov, who was a legit top ten fighter. Martin looked good before the stoppage. The ratings don't lie. He won. It ain't his fault the other guy got injured.

[crusader]

There was nothing in the Glazkov fight and Martin didn't even have the lead despite being the house fighter. He beat weak opposition prior to that fight and won the title not because he overwhelmed his opponent with ability, but because his opponent's leg gave out when throwing a punch. I didn't have Glazkov in my top ten anyway due to him arguably losing to Scott, Rossey, and Cunningham, and I don't for one second believe that Martin beating him in the manner he did makes CM a proven world class operator or among the best 10 heavyweights in the world. As for the various sets of rankings, the BoxRec forum HW rankings didn't feature Martin in the top 15, which I think is reasonable given his overall mediocre resume and the nature of his win over Glazkov. Even if someone had Martin in the top 10 simply because he scored a (very unconvincing) win over Glazkov it doesn't mean they think he was top 10 ability-wise, and isn't ability the main issue when debating whether someone is good enough to be considered world class?

It wouldn't surprise me if AJ could already beat people like Fury, Povetkin, and Wilder, but I get Horse's point about him being relatively unproven due to the quality of his opposition.