OK I confess. I'm on the AJ train.

[Bard of Boxrec]

He seems to be.

[Horse]

Are you Horse in disguise?

One doesn't have to be Horse to realise that Riddick Blowe is pathetic.

[Bard of Boxrec]

Are you Horse in disguise?

One doesn't have to be Horse to realise that Riddick Blowe is pathetic.

Fine Horse, Joey Abell, shot Chisora, Cunningham and Christian Hammer made Fury a top contender. So much more proven than Joshua.

If we place Whyte and Cunningham on the same level, which seems reasonable, we are fighting for scraps as to what Fury's second best win is. Chisora I, many years before, was a decent win, but everyone seems to say Chisora was always a bit limited. Um, what else? Can we say Hammer and Martin are equal? Who cares, really? Does Fury's 12 rounds against Kevin Johnson count for anything? Should it, honestly? Vinny Maddalone's face was a bit red. Red is a powerful colour, should he count?

Horse, as much as you want it to, nothing on Fury's record is overly impressive to the extent you can go round talking about how much more 'proven' he is, as if that would affect the styles matchup in any way vs Joshua.

[BitPlayer]

Are you Horse in disguise?

One doesn't have to be Horse to realise that Riddick Blowe is pathetic.

Fine Horse, Joey Abell, shot Chisora, Cunningham and Christian Hammer made Fury a top contender. So much more proven than Joshua.

Congratulations. You have finally grasped the point that the division is SHALLOW and sometimes you need to use your eyes and look beyond records.

[Bard of Boxrec]

One doesn't have to be Horse to realise that Riddick Blowe is pathetic.

Fine Horse, Joey Abell, shot Chisora, Cunningham and Christian Hammer made Fury a top contender. So much more proven than Joshua.

Congratulations. You have finally grasped the point that the division is SHALLOW and sometimes you need to use your eyes and look beyond records.

Looks like you're beating some sense into yourself. That's right. Let it go in.

[Horse]

If we place Whyte and Cunningham on the same level, which seems reasonable, we are fighting for scraps as to what Fury's second best win is.

Cunningham is a much better win than Whyte.

Whyte might not even be as good as McDermott.

Chisora I, many years before, was a decent win, but everyone seems to say Chisora was always a bit limited. Um, what else? Can we say Hammer and Martin are equal? Who cares, really? Does Fury's 12 rounds against Kevin Johnson count for anything? Should it, honestly? Vinny Maddalone's face was a bit red. Red is a powerful colour, should he count?

Chisora is much better than anyone on Joshua's record.

Horse, as much as you want it to, nothing on Fury's record is overly impressive to the extent you can go round talking about how much more 'proven' he is, as if that would affect the styles matchup vs Joshua.

Fury beat Wladimir Klitschko you massive prat, of course I can go around saying that he is far more proven than Joshua.

Joshua is a big, stiff, lumbering idiot and he is far from a proven world level fighter.

[BitPlayer]

Fine Horse, Joey Abell, shot Chisora, Cunningham and Christian Hammer made Fury a top contender. So much more proven than Joshua.

Congratulations. You have finally grasped the point that the division is SHALLOW and sometimes you need to use your eyes and look beyond records.

Looks like you're beating some sense into yourself. That's right. Let it go in.

OK, I'll spell it out to you. You keep saying look beyond records with Joshua, yet you're the one that keeps bringing up records.

[Bard of Boxrec]

Cunningham is a much better win than Whyte.

Who says? You? Oh, it's because Whyte is so untested and you don't have eyes, so can't understand that he can handle himself in there without having to have beaten a lumbering statue over 12 suicidal rounds.

Chisora is much better than anyone on Joshua's record.

Which automatically means we have NO CLUE how Joshua would have done against the same guy right?

Joshua is a big, stiff, lumbering idiot and he is far from a proven world level fighter.

Until he rolls through...who exactly? That's right, nobody he beats will gain him credit from you, and god forbid anyone 'ranked' who he beats now is beaten easily because Joshua is just that much better than them.

[Horse]

Cunningham is a much better win than Whyte.

Who says? You? Oh, it's because Whyte is so untested and you don't have eyes, so can't understand that he can handle himself in there without having to have beaten a lumbering statue over 12 suicidal rounds.

Chisora is much better than anyone on Joshua's record.

Which automatically means we have NO CLUE how Joshua would have done against the same guy right?

Joshua is a big, stiff, lumbering idiot and he is far from a proven world level fighter.

Until he rolls through...who exactly? That's right, nobody he beats will gain him credit from you, and god forbid anyone 'ranked' who he beats now is beaten easily because Joshua is just that much better than them.

It's like speaking to a brick wall.

Joshua's record is clearly weak. Why are you even arguing against that?

Pathetic.

[BitPlayer]

Cunningham is a much better win than Whyte.

Who says? You? Oh, it's because Whyte is so untested and you don't have eyes, so can't understand that he can handle himself in there without having to have beaten a lumbering statue over 12 suicidal rounds.

The only thing Whyte really has over Cunningham is toughness, he was slower, less fit, less skilled, carying an injury, and only an inch taller.

[Bard of Boxrec]

Looks like you're beating some sense into yourself. That's right. Let it go in.

OK, I'll spell it out to you. You keep saying look beyond records with Joshua, yet you're the one that keeps bringing up records.

No, I brought up that Horse brings up records. Look back over the course of the thread. You can do it.

[Horse]

No, I brought up that Horse brings up records. Look back over the course of the thread. You can do it.

You do keep trying to big up Joshua's record.

Please, stop making a fool of yourself.

[Bard of Boxrec]

No, I brought up that Horse brings up records. Look back over the course of the thread. You can do it.

You do keep trying to big up Joshua's record.

Please, stop making a fool of yourself.

Provide one example of where I did that and I will gladly explain it for you.

[Horse]

Provide one example of where I did that and I will gladly explain it for you.

Please stop being #Riddickulous.

[Bard of Boxrec]

Cunningham is a much better win than Whyte.

Who says? You? Oh, it's because Whyte is so untested and you don't have eyes, so can't understand that he can handle himself in there without having to have beaten a lumbering statue over 12 suicidal rounds.

The only thing Whyte really has over Cunningham is toughness, he was slower, less fit, less skilled, carying an injury, and only an inch taller.

Slower, maybe. Less fit, who says. Less skilled, possibly but he has decent skills himself. Carrying an injury, who says. Only an inch taller but the naturally bigger guy and stronger.

It's close. But my point, which you still haven't grasped, is that Fury's record being longer and having tons of mediocre guys on it who didn't really further Fury's cause as a top contender doesn't offset Joshua's inexperience to the extent people think it does, the point at which Joshua is 'ready' is arbitrary, and I and many believe he has shown more than enough in the contests he has had already to tell us most of what need to know about his future in the division. It has told me enough to say he walks through Fury. There will be tougher challenges ahead though, namely Ortiz, Parker, Haye and maybe Wilder.

[Bard of Boxrec]

Provide one example of where I did that and I will gladly explain it for you.

Please stop being #Riddickulous.

Couldn't do it could you.

[Horse]

Couldn't do it could you.

Do what?

Try to give you a logical reply and then have to put up with more of your inane waffling in response?

You are a waste of time.

[Bard of Boxrec]

Couldn't do it could you.

Do what?

Try to give you a logical reply and then have to put up with more of your inane waffling in response?

You are a waste of time.

I asked you to provide one example of me 'bigging up Joshua's record'.

You realised it didn't happen and had to admit defeat.

[BitPlayer]

Who says? You? Oh, it's because Whyte is so untested and you don't have eyes, so can't understand that he can handle himself in there without having to have beaten a lumbering statue over 12 suicidal rounds.

The only thing Whyte really has over Cunningham is toughness, he was slower, less fit, less skilled, carying an injury, and only an inch taller.

Slower, maybe. Less fit, who says. Less skilled, possibly but he has decent skills himself. Carrying an injury, who says. Only an inch taller but the naturally bigger guy and stronger.

Well Banks brought up the Injury, and he's been in recovery from surgery, the issue was also mentioned after the Minto fight. Okay I'll grant that though, he was probably stronger, though while he came in heavier he wasn't close to as cut, and when you see him cut there isn't much in it. And there's massive difference between being small fast fit and skilled, and being smallish, slower, unrefined, out of shape, and injured.

It's close. But my point, which you still haven't grasped, is that Fury's record being longer and having tons of mediocre guys on it who didn't really further Fury's cause as a top contender doesn't offset Joshua's inexperience to the extent people think it does, the point at which Joshua is 'ready' is arbitrary, and I and many believe he has shown more than enough in the contests he has had already to tell us most of what need to know about his future in the division. It has told me enough to say he walks through Fury. There will be tougher challenges ahead though, namely Ortiz, Parker, Haye and maybe Wilder.

A big reason Fury's record is longer is because he turned pro younger, and the mediocre guys would be stand out names on Joshua's record the best of which is a part timer, a defensive fighter so shot he could barely guard, an out of shape and injured kickboxer, and a very lucky club fighter. But it's beyond record, Fury has shown versatility, he shown he can fight on the inside, and at range, he can bully and he can feint, he can switch hit, he can use angles, and also he has repetitively show he can go 12 rounds. Joshua can punch people, usually until the ref steps in.

[BitPlayer]

Couldn't do it could you.

Do what?

Try to give you a logical reply and then have to put up with more of your inane waffling in response?

You are a waste of time.

I asked you to provide one example of me 'bigging up Joshua's record'.

You realised it didn't happen and had to admit defeat.

I'll do it, claiming unfit and injured Whyte is on the level of Cunningham.

[Bard of Boxrec]

Do what?

Try to give you a logical reply and then have to put up with more of your inane waffling in response?

You are a waste of time.

I asked you to provide one example of me 'bigging up Joshua's record'.

You realised it didn't happen and had to admit defeat.

I'll do it, claiming unfit and injured Whyte is on the level of Cunningham.

I'm not sure where this unfit and injured thing came from. Sounds like the usual shite people say after a defeat. He looked pretty capable to me. I'm guessing if Whyte vs that version of Cunningham were to be scheduled the books would have it pretty close. And no, this still isn't 'bigging up Joshua's record', it's making a point that there isn't much in it between the wins. My original argument was that Fury's record going into the Wlad fight wasn't any great shakes and nobody was picking him to beat Wlad, then suddenly he outwits Mr Covent Garden Street Mime and he's got all these classy skills that nobody really noticed before. That Wlad win blinds people, it really does.

OK so I understand Horse picked Fury vs Wlad based on not much, well done, but now it's considered so outrageous that people could pick Joshua over Fury when the difference in relevant experience isn't as wide as folk think and people refuse to use their eyes and understand the style matchup. I can explain that in a bit more detail in a bit, maybe.

[keithmoonhangover]

Fine Horse, Joey Abell, shot Chisora, Cunningham and Christian Hammer made Fury a top contender. So much more proven than Joshua.

Congratulations. You have finally grasped the point that the division is SHALLOW and sometimes you need to use your eyes and look beyond records.

Looks like you're beating some sense into yourself. That's right. Let it go in.

I've just put a few quid on the wall to win by DQ.

[Bard of Boxrec]

Looks like you're beating some sense into yourself. That's right. Let it go in.

I've just put a few quid on the wall to win by DQ.

Haha! No naughties with the head!

[BitPlayer]

I asked you to provide one example of me 'bigging up Joshua's record'.

You realised it didn't happen and had to admit defeat.

I'll do it, claiming unfit and injured Whyte is on the level of Cunningham.

I'm not sure where this unfit and injured thing came from. Sounds like the usual shite people say after a defeat. He looked pretty capable to me. I'm guessing if Whyte vs that version of Cunningham were to be scheduled the books would have it pretty close. And no, this still isn't 'bigging up Joshua's record', it's making a point that there isn't much in it between the wins. My original argument was that Fury's record going into the Wlad fight wasn't any great shakes and nobody was picking him to beat Wlad, then suddenly he outwits Mr Covent Garden Street Mime and he's got all these classy skills that nobody really noticed before. That Wlad win blinds people, it really does.

OK so I understand Horse picked Fury vs Wlad based on not much, well done, but now it's considered so outrageous that people could pick Joshua over Fury when the difference in relevant experience isn't as wide as folk think and people refuse to use their eyes and understand the style matchup. I can explain that in a bit more detail in a bit, maybe.

Unfit based on the fact he clearly was, injured based on the fact he had to have surgery, and spoke about having shoulder issues in the previous fight and Banks mentioned it after.

[Rob3_142]

Blimey! You guys!

I almost feel well out of line posting while you guys are mid-flurry!

First and foremost, Riddick, stop feeding the troll.

Objectively speaking, and I am a fan of both Fury and Joshua, I'm kinda siding with Riddick. Although we all accept that Fury is the linear champ, and definitely number one, prior to that Klitchko victory, it wasn't exactly a glowing record. We all know where the bookies had that fight, and anyone who was anyone was backing Klitchko to embarrass Fury in the ring. Fury won, deservedly too. I'm still undecided if it was because Fury was so good, or if Klitchko was so bad, or a bit of both. I guess we'll know more when Fury fights someone else.

To be honest, and this has already been alluded by all, is that records are not always relevant (although not completely useless to gauge someone). I think Joshua's record is actually very good for only 16 fights in. He had a dozen pro fights where he wasn't ever going to be troubled, and then since then he's been slowly gradually stepping up the opposition. The same with Fury. It doesn't really matter if the records aren't great, it's all about - have they got you where you need to be? The answer for both, is yes.

They'll meet in good time, hopefully sooner rather than later. When they do, I'm backing Joshua for the win.