Which Trainer was better for Khan?

TopGun · Post by **TopGun** » 13 May 2016, 04:59

I'm still of the belief that Khan was better under Freddie, he is an attacking fighter so to then try and become all defensive is fine and understandable but it's not how he naturally is IMO.

he has done better under Freddie. he would not have won the fight against Maidana if he was with Hunter.

bbjc · Post by **bbjc** » 13 May 2016, 05:13

Better all round fighter under hunter but more effective fighter under roach.

mainman1 · Post by **mainman1** » 13 May 2016, 06:03

I really haven't seen anything since he moved to Virgil Hunter that makes me think, 'look amir has really improved his...........in this fight' Sure Virgil has tried to make him more compact, think more and pick his shots but if everyone including Virgil Hunter was to speak honestly the move has been a big let down.

I don't think Virgil realised before he worked with Amir that his ringcraft and boxing brain was as bad as it is and probably thought that is was just that Freddie Roach wasn't trying to work those areas, but he must realise now that in the heat of battle Amir will always have the same flaws where he starts like a demon, looks good but when the pressure gets put on him his gameplan goes out the window and the openings for his opponent become more obvious. Amir just can't handle pressure and even fighters like Chris Aligieri and Lamont Peterson who are usually boxers realised this and put the pressure on him.

magwitch · Post by **magwitch** » 13 May 2016, 06:20

Mick Jelley

Horse · Post by **Horse** » 13 May 2016, 06:27

Roach.

Stuarty · Post by **Stuarty** » 13 May 2016, 06:50

Was far more effective under Roach. Roach is an attacking minded coach and Khans main strength is his quick handed attacks. He doesn't have the technical ability or concentration to do what Hunter wants him to do. Always seemed as if he is in two minds under Hunter, like you can see the gears in his brain turning in the ring.

whiskey · Post by **whiskey** » 13 May 2016, 07:08

He's got a stiff torso, he doesn't bob and weave, slip or slide.

He just flurries fast straight punches, he doesn't tend to mix them up as much as he should. When he does mix them up he is more effective. I dont think Roach or Virgil have done much with his style.

cocobongo · Post by **cocobongo** » 13 May 2016, 07:44

Was only Oliver Harrison he was undefeated under!

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 13 May 2016, 07:56

G0mez wrote:He's got a stiff torso, he doesn't bob and weave, slip or slide.

He just flurries fast straight punches, he doesn't tend to mix them up as much as he should. When he does mix them up he is more effective. I dont think Roach or Virgil have done much with his style.

Totally agree. There's so little variety or fluidity these days. Just rapid fire staccato left right left right, but with no real power.

When he first started out, he definitely planted his feet more, and threw a wider variety of shots.

I think hunter tried to take away the defensive frailties, but they will always be there, it's just how he is.

mainman1 · Post by **mainman1** » 13 May 2016, 09:00

cocobongo wrote:Was only Oliver Harrison he was undefeated under!

He also never fought anyone of note under Oliver Harrison, Amir's best wins with him as coach were Willie Limond and Graham Earl and lets be honest he should have been counted out against Willie Limond.

I think Oliver is a good coach up to a certain level and I think I'm right in saying that he has never had a world champion even though Martin Murray probably should have or could still manage to change that.

Horse · Post by **Horse** » 13 May 2016, 09:15

mainman1 wrote:lets be honest he should have been counted out against Willie Limond.

No, he shouldn't have been.

mainman1 · Post by **mainman1** » 13 May 2016, 09:32

Horse wrote:
mainman1 wrote:lets be honest he should have been counted out against Willie Limond.
No, he shouldn't have been.

It was a long count by anybodies standards, watch it back. Amir hits the Canvas at 2:03 and he just getting to his feet at 1:53 which technically means he was TKO'd. The referee than didn't wave the boxing on until 1:50 and that is a 13 second count altogether pal.

Horse · Post by **Horse** » 13 May 2016, 09:45

mainman1 wrote:It was a long count by anybodies standards, watch it back. Amir hits the Canvas at 2:03 and he just getting to his feet at 1:53 which technically means he was TKO'd. The referee than didn't wave the boxing on until 1:50 and that is a 13 second count altogether pal.

He was up at 1:59. He only dipped down again because someone (an idiot) from his corner seemed to be telling him to take a knee again.

It would have been ridiculous to stop the fight.

What's all this "13 seconds count" rubbish about anyway?

The ref checked Khan's defence a bit and then waved it back on again like in any other fight.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 13 May 2016, 10:54

I thought against Canelo, there was too little on Khan's punches, they were real shoe shines. Maybe, who knows, if he'd put a little more on them, he could have kept Canelo off a little longer. Maybe not, but you can't really keep someone honest when you're throwing shots just to score, rather than to cause any damage, not someone like Canelo anyway.

Khan's never been a vaunted puncher, but he certainly was more spiteful early on. Obviously it's about levels, and what you do at one level may not have the same effect at a higher one, but if you're chinny, and you've no real venom in your shots, there's always the possibility you get walked through and taken out.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 13 May 2016, 10:55

mainman1 wrote:
Horse wrote:
mainman1 wrote:lets be honest he should have been counted out against Willie Limond.
No, he shouldn't have been.
It was a long count by anybodies standards, watch it back. Amir hits the Canvas at 2:03 and he just getting to his feet at 1:53 which technically means he was TKO'd. The referee than didn't wave the boxing on until 1:50 and that is a 13 second count altogether pal.

I didn't realise Khan could reverse time? He may be chinny, but that's VERY impressive.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 13 May 2016, 11:13

I think Khan will need to be looking for a new trainer.... I don't think Virgil Hunter has been particularly impressive with his mouth this time. Unless it was a ploy to get Alvarez to treat Khan lightly. His speech about Khan lacking killer instinct wasn't great.

This thread made me think about Dean Powell, such a great loss to the game. Khan's trainer for a brief period.

littlepug · Post by **littlepug** » 13 May 2016, 11:32

plenty of brit trainers that could do something with him

bbjc · Post by **bbjc** » 13 May 2016, 12:31

Thats the problem tho. Hes had guys regarded as the best in the world. And still we see the same old problems. No coach can fix them. Regardless if they re british or american.

tobyh5 · Post by **tobyh5** » 13 May 2016, 12:43

Horse wrote:He only dipped down again because someone (an idiot) from his corner seemed to be telling him to take a knee again.
.

Does not matter why he went down again, was his knee on the floor?

If we are playing the "he only" thing to make things that are within the rules not count we may as well say he only got knocked out because he forgot to duck against Canelo

* just watched it, his knee was finally off the floor at 1.54

mainman1 · Post by **mainman1** » 14 May 2016, 04:05

tobyh5 wrote:
Horse wrote:He only dipped down again because someone (an idiot) from his corner seemed to be telling him to take a knee again.
.
Does not matter why he went down again, was his knee on the floor?

If we are playing the "he only" thing to make things that are within the rules not count we may as well say he only got knocked out because he forgot to duck against Canelo

* just watched it, his knee was finally off the floor at 1.54

You cannot reason with some Amir Khan fanboys tbh, I am a fan of Amir's but anyone who thinks that taking a knee halfway through a count doesn't mean he should have been counted out is delusional towards Amir Khan.

ThereByTheGrace · Post by **ThereByTheGrace** » 14 May 2016, 04:15

Jorge rubio

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 14 May 2016, 10:28

Doesn't matter who trains him, his fighting instincts will always let him down.

Horse · Post by **Horse** » 14 May 2016, 11:33

mainman1 wrote:You cannot reason with some Amir Khan fanboys tbh, I am a fan of Amir's but anyone who thinks that taking a knee halfway through a count doesn't mean he should have been counted out is delusional towards Amir Khan.

The referee used his discretion as he should.

Khan was clearly still able to continue, as he had already stood up and was fine, and had only dipped down again after turning and looking at someone and listening to their moronic advice.

To stop the fight would have been wrong, and only given Limond a stoppage win based on a technicality, rather than being an accurate result.

littlepug · Post by **littlepug** » 14 May 2016, 11:39

bbjc wrote:Thats the problem tho. Hes had guys regarded as the best in the world. And still we see the same old problems. No coach can fix them. Regardless if they re british or american.

your probably right although would be interesting to see what Booth or Gallagher could do with him

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 14 May 2016, 11:40

TopGun wrote:I'm still of the belief that Khan was better under Freddie, he is an attacking fighter so to then try and become all defensive is fine and understandable but it's not how he naturally is IMO.

he has done better under Freddie. he would not have won the fight against Maidana if he was with Hunter.

Khan's problem under Roach was that he didn't have as much power as he thought he did, so that all-out attack style was always going to land him in trouble.

He's more effective under Hunter, if a little less exciting to watch.

One thing that neither trainer can do anything about is Khan's chin: he can't take a good wallop & that will always be his downfall, but at least under Hunter, he's less likely to be hit cleanly.