Autobarn wrote:How about this. At some point Alvarez will not be able to make 155 anymore. One day it'll be too much of a pain in the arse to bring people to this "Cinnamonweight" as people are calling it. And the weight stipulations will stop.
He still seems a growing lad. His body looks kind of drawn, shrunken to me. I think he has to work hard to get to 155.
When he does fight at 160 there actually will be benefits. He'll be able to throw punches more than a minute a round, you'd hope.
I think because he depleted himself for Mayweather (as Cotto did forPac) by coming in light, he's willing to make people do the same for him. But it won't last. Because his own body will fill out.
Right now, I have a serious issue with him insisting Lara fight him above 154 and insisting Golovkin fight him considerably south of 160 (as we've heard several times). That reeks of taking the piss.
was trying to remember what canelo meant, that's right, cinnamon!
Personally, I'm not a fan of judging fights based on fight night weights.
Both fighters and camps know the contracted weight (which is a much bigger issue). Where the fighter then ends up post that is irrelevant, as you shouldn't take the fight if that bothers you.
Canelo was always going to be much bigger that Khan. If the latter camp were t aware of that, it's simply poor due diligence.
Loynesy wrote:For years, I thought it was carrot. Despite the fact I speak decent Spanish, and I should have known that wasn't the Spanish word for carrot.....
Canelo has been painted into a corner by this Caneloweight embarrassment.
He must be struggling big time to get down to a 155 which ironically would be much easier for GGG what with his 164lb 30 day weigh in figure.
I suspected that this year he would become the world's best 157lb boxer then next year Caneloweight would shift to 159.
I agree that he is or at least was a real Mexican fighter when he took on Trout after agreeing the Mayweather cash bonanza. That was a totally unnecessary banana skin which I'm sure Goldenboy would have wanted to avoid but he forced it through.
Was it the case though that this was before he signed with Oscar, he was self promoted and GB were just employed to put the fight on?
Maybe he doesn’t have as much say in his career now and maybe he believed he was simply unbeatable before he faced Floyd.
Last edited by Shirow on 17 May 2016, 11:26, edited 1 time in total.
jamesmcdonnell wrote:I feel a bit sorry for Canelo to be frank;
I don't believe for a second he's afraid of GGG - I think he wants the fight, but GB don't really want the fight unless they have every perceived advantage going into the fight. They are forcing him to make dumbass statements about how he's not a MW, whilst defending the MW title, and weighing in north of 170 on fight night on a regular basis.
They are making him look an arse, and in the end I think he's going to demand the fight, the guy's a proper fighter, I'm actually a big fan, and I honestly believe he wants nothing more than to take on GGG, even if he believes he's up against it.
I totally agree. If you can win a middleweight title you are a middleweight and should not be making any stipulations on weight. I believe Canelo is all fighter and wants the fight to happen, hopefully sense will prevail but this is boxing!
It's one thing Sugar Ray Leonard doing it in his mid 30s up,from welterweight to middle/super middle/light heavy. To gain an edge over his great rival Hearns, or to improve his chances versus a much bigger man like Lalonde.
But this oversized young light middle, who rehydrates a lot of weight...Who surely struggled to make 154, given he insisted Lara fight him at 155 to gain an advantage. Who came in a low weight (I think two pounds inside light middle) insisted by Mayweather, and seemed severely depleted. Who could only punch a minute a round in the light middle unification with Trout, then had to spend the rest of the round running and covering up...
Chuffing, prove yourself first. Don't rely on handicapping this severe, in your prime. Prove you are good enough, FFS.
Autobarn wrote:It's one thing Sugar Ray Leonard doing it in his mid 30s up,from welterweight to middle/super middle/light heavy. To gain an edge over his great rival Hearns, or to improve his chances versus a much bigger man like Lalonde.
But this oversized young light middle, who rehydrates a lot of weight...Who surely struggled to make 154, given he insisted Lara fight him at 155 to gain an advantage. Who came in a low weight (I think two pounds inside light middle) insisted by Mayweather, and seemed severely depleted. Who could only punch a minute a round in the light middle unification with Trout, then had to spend the rest of the round running and covering up...
Chuffing, prove yourself first. Don't rely on handicapping this severe, in your prime. Prove you are good enough, FFS.
I don't blieve Canelo is good enough , he has wins by handicapping his opponents , and whats more his management know it . Hence the new division Caneloweight
Gatti went from 140 to 159 against Gamache! Poor Joey only put on 5lbs so come first bell Gatti was 14lbs heavier. Thats the difference between light welter and light middle!
Autobarn wrote:It's one thing Sugar Ray Leonard doing it in his mid 30s up,from welterweight to middle/super middle/light heavy. To gain an edge over his great rival Hearns, or to improve his chances versus a much bigger man like Lalonde.
But this oversized young light middle, who rehydrates a lot of weight...Who surely struggled to make 154, given he insisted Lara fight him at 155 to gain an advantage. Who came in a low weight (I think two pounds inside light middle) insisted by Mayweather, and seemed severely depleted. Who could only punch a minute a round in the light middle unification with Trout, then had to spend the rest of the round running and covering up...
Chuffing, prove yourself first. Don't rely on handicapping this severe, in your prime. Prove you are good enough, FFS.
I don't blieve Canelo is good enough , he has wins by handicapping his opponents , and whats more his management know it . Hence the new division Caneloweight
i have to think there is an element of this, I can't see why they would be doing it if they didn't have some kind of doubts
I think unlimited hydration is a bad thing, but it isn't against the rules or illegal, so it's game on. Also, the rules are the same for everyone, so it is a level playing field. The simple way to make it easier is to make a 5% rehydration limit.
Although, I have to say that no one ever moans when a heavyweight is outweighed by 30 or 40 lbs. Valuev was 99lbs heavier than Haye and no one gave a toss about that. Yes, that's heavyweight boxing, but a weight difference is a weight difference.
keithmoonhangover wrote:I think unlimited hydration is a bad thing, but it isn't against the rules or illegal, so it's game on. Also, the rules are the same for everyone, so it is a level playing field. The simple way to make it easier is to make a 5% rehydration limit.
Although, I have to say that no one ever moans when a heavyweight is outweighed by 30 or 40 lbs. Valuev was 99lbs heavier than Haye and no one gave a toss about that. Yes, that's heavyweight boxing, but a weight difference is a weight difference.
There's a difference, guy at that size are on the upper limits of human physiology, and there's a big difference in body sizes at heavyweight.
Anyone value's size is going to be slow as shit through as funnel. Whereas In the lower weight classes I think it has a much bigger impact.
keithmoonhangover wrote:I think unlimited hydration is a bad thing, but it isn't against the rules or illegal, so it's game on. Also, the rules are the same for everyone, so it is a level playing field. The simple way to make it easier is to make a 5% rehydration limit.
Although, I have to say that no one ever moans when a heavyweight is outweighed by 30 or 40 lbs. Valuev was 99lbs heavier than Haye and no one gave a toss about that. Yes, that's heavyweight boxing, but a weight difference is a weight difference.
There's a difference, guy at that size are on the upper limits of human physiology, and there's a big difference in body sizes at heavyweight.
Anyone value's size is going to be slow as poo through as funnel. Whereas In the lower weight classes I think it has a much bigger impact.
Valuev is an extreme example. But Holyfield-Bowe, Spinks-Holmes and Klitschko-Brewster are good examples of smaller guys winning. I'm not saying that piling on 20+ lbs post weigh in is a good thing, but it's the same rule for all boxers. If Canelo fights GGG, they can both weigh what they want after the weigh in.
The whole day before weigh-in was brought in to make boxing safer but the system is seriously flawed and potentially dangerous and is being abused. We have weight divisions for a reason and the premise of them was to create even matchups between similar sized fighters. Now under the current system we can have by fight time a weight difference between two guys of a stone! We have guys weighing in at welterweight but by fight time are middleweights or super middleweights! It makes a mockery of the sport.
Remember the Wayne McCullough fight against Scott Harrison? By fight time Wayne was still a featherweight, Harrison was a welter. The beating Wayne took that night should never have been allowed to happen. His bravery getting through that fight should be applauded but it should not have been allowed as the playing field was significantly altered.
Back in the good ole days when boxing actually meant something real men fought each other after weighing in on the same day and on that basis the champions could be judged against the greats that came before them. The current system has undermined this legacy. We are now in a position where it is impossible to compare the elite fighters against those of years gone by.
Hell under todays rules Marvin Hagler would be the greatest welterweight of all time!
Under the rules of yesteryear how do we fancy Canelo's chances against the likes of Michael Spinks? FFS the "elite" fighter of today would not even have been a contender at level weights in that era.
Autobarn wrote:It's one thing Sugar Ray Leonard doing it in his mid 30s up,from welterweight to middle/super middle/light heavy. To gain an edge over his great rival Hearns, or to improve his chances versus a much bigger man like Lalonde.
But this oversized young light middle, who rehydrates a lot of weight...Who surely struggled to make 154, given he insisted Lara fight him at 155 to gain an advantage. Who came in a low weight (I think two pounds inside light middle) insisted by Mayweather, and seemed severely depleted. Who could only punch a minute a round in the light middle unification with Trout, then had to spend the rest of the round running and covering up...
Chuffing, prove yourself first. Don't rely on handicapping this severe, in your prime. Prove you are good enough, FFS.
I don't blieve Canelo is good enough , he has wins by handicapping his opponents , and whats more his management know it . Hence the new division Caneloweight
Absolutely. Fear and greed.
Though, once you agree to his terms, he will be pretty ruthless with you in the ring.
The funny thing is, "Cinnamon" doesn't even look good weighing 155. His body looks like it needs to fill out a bit. His chest, shoulders and sides in particular. I think he has to work very hard to get down to 155 and be a big "Cinnamonweight."
