Most gifted fighter of all time

Loynesy · Post by **Loynesy** » 29 Dec 2003, 12:28

Nasty - I can't decide if you are an idiot that knows nothing about boxing or someone who knows a lot about boxing who enjoys wind ups. It is definitely one or the other, there is certainly no in between.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 29 Dec 2003, 14:56

Two names which seem to have been omitted.

Wilfred Benitez and Mike McCallum.

Benitez was possibly the most naturally gifted fighter ever, and appeared to be able to do everything almost insntinctively, despite not being the hardest trainer in the world.

Mike McCallum, just did everything so well, though not blessed with the stunning speed or reflexes of a RJJ, he was an all round master of the fight game. Manny Stewart said that of all the fighters he ever trained, everything came easiest to McCallum.

hitman_hatton1 · Post by **hitman_hatton1** » 29 Dec 2003, 15:25

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Two names which seem to have been omitted.

Wilfred Benitez and Mike McCallum.

Benitez was possibly the most naturally gifted fighter ever, and appeared to be able to do everything almost insntinctively, despite not being the hardest trainer in the world.

Mike McCallum, just did everything so well, though not blessed with the stunning speed or reflexes of a RJJ, he was an all round master of the fight game. Manny Stewart said that of all the fighters he ever trained, everything came easiest to McCallum.

and i still think graham won there fight

makes ya wonder what that makes graham

oscar de la hoya has to be mentioned as well he's done it all pretty much and has all the tools.

Steve M · Post by **Steve M** » 29 Dec 2003, 15:54

McCallum's performance against Watson was masterful.Watson should not have fought McCallum so early IMO.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 29 Dec 2003, 17:05

Two greats who deserve a mention, and would give any fighter P4P a run for their money: Alexis Arguello and Wilfredo Gomez.

Nile4000 · Post by **Nile4000** » 15 Feb 2006, 14:29

Ray Robinson
Willie Pep
Muhammad Ali
Ray Leonard
Greg Page
Bernard Taylor
Howard Davis Jr.
Edwin Rosario
Donald Curry
Hector Camacho
Pernell Whitaker
Floyd Mayweather Jr.

ibbo · Post by **ibbo** » 15 Feb 2006, 18:04

i dont know how people can say Harry Greb and Jimmy Wilde were naturally gifted fighters when there isnt any DECENT footage of either of them. I also wouldnt say that Tyson was a gifted boxer but he was naturally strong, because he learnt everything from Cus d'Amato, the head movement and the fast combinations. Without that training he never would have been a world champ. I would say that a naturallly gifted boxer is one who would do well in this sport without having to train to hard or have a good coach, and would have been world champ no matter where they trained. One who is naturally athletic. Not in order but i would say that these are very gifted fighters.

Sugar Ray Leonard. won world titles in different weights. took lots of time out and came straight back into a world title fight, example was the Hagler fight. Naturally athletic.

Roy Jones. again naturally athletic and made fights look easy. moved up the weights with no problem.

Roberto Duran. moved up the weights without a problem winning world titles. An ex world LIGHTWEIGHT champ who gave Hagler a hard fight at middleweight, thats nearly two stone difference, natural strengh and toughness. was still tough and strong and fought good fighters close to 40 yrs old. Longevity.

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 16 Feb 2006, 08:32

MightyWarrior wrote:Two greats who deserve a mention, and would give any fighter P4P a run for their money: Alexis Arguello and Wilfredo Gomez.

Great shout with Bazooka Gomez MW - he was sublime at his brillaint best.

His crushing knockout power was backed up with flowing combination punching and good head and lateral movement.

He is my favourite boxer to watch and has to go down as one of the most naturally gifted of all time, surely?

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 16 Feb 2006, 10:04

Agree with most pics BUT no mention of Hamed - reflexes, power, strength, speed - most naturally gifted feather ever easily.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 16 Feb 2006, 10:09

Surely by definition, a gift is something you DON'T have to work for?

You could say that the ABILITY to apply yourself and remain dedicated is a gift.

Overall I'd have to say Ali.

Ali had everything except devastating punch power. Freakish speed and agility for a 220 lb man, terrific mental and physical strength (ali was deceptively strong), fantastic fighting brain, iron will, a great chin, dazzling handspeed and immense presence in and out of the ring which helped him win fights he should have lost.

Post by **The Law** » 16 Feb 2006, 10:27

Salvador Sanchez has to be right up there. He's arguably the greatest featherweight of all time, and man was he talented!

He died at the mere age of 23 and he still left a legacy.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 16 Feb 2006, 11:29

Also died young enough not to get beat and go into decline and spoil his legacy.

REAL_DEAL · Post by **REAL_DEAL** » 16 Feb 2006, 11:44

who brought this thread back to life. i couldnt rememer starting it. then i looked at the date 2003

also i remember user nasty. never did get thoese tyson predictions right

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 16 Feb 2006, 11:48

A modern guy with absolute enormous talent and no discipline and a love of all things bad in life.......
A personal favourite of mine...
JOSE LUIS LOPEZ
http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=008361

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 16 Feb 2006, 12:00

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Also died young enough not to get beat and go into decline and spoil his legacy.

The way Sanchez handled both Wilfredo Gomez and Azumah Nelson makes me believe he would have gone down as an all time great, no matter how long he had continued boxing for.

Is Duran any less well thought of despite his humiliating losses to the likes of Pat Lawlor and Joppy late in his career?

Not in my eyes. I will always remember Duran as the untameable lightweight beast who ruled the division and went on to upset Leonard and give Hagler a run for his money.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 16 Feb 2006, 12:35

TerribleTerry wrote: Great shout with Bazooka Gomez MW - he was sublime at his brillaint best.

His crushing knockout power was backed up with flowing combination punching and good head and lateral movement.

He is my favourite boxer to watch and has to go down as one of the most naturally gifted of all time, surely?

Yeah when I think of Gomez I can picture him dismantling the legendary Carlos Zarate, with a slightly disinterested, bored look on his face.

Gomez almost toys with him, and this is one of the greatest and most feared fighters to ever come out of Mexico: a long time champion with a record of something like 50-0 with 49 KO's.

Gomez just glides around him, like he's having a walk in the park, before he steps in and demolishes Zarate in 5 rounds with an awesome array of punches ( some of them even legal ).
Not sure there's ever been a fighter who could have beaten Gomez on that night in Puerto Rico.

He fell for his own hype in the end though, not bothering to train for his next superfight against Salvador Sanchez.
Sanchez restored Mexican pride, but died too young and Wilfredo never got his shot at revenge - something he regrets even to this day.

Nile4000 · Post by **Nile4000** » 16 Feb 2006, 12:43

Would he have beaten Sanchez in a rematch?

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 16 Feb 2006, 12:43

Hmm, had this argument with a few people lately.

Sugar Ray Leonard was every bit as gifted as Whittaker, with better offensive skills and better all around ability, and whilst everyone harps on about their 2nd fight, it's convenient that everyone forgets their first.

Duran moved up the weights to beat a natural welterweight, and by far the best welterweight of his era, but bizzarely receives little or no credit, as if it was a blip, and was able to beat a massively strong middleweight like Barkley when he was way past his best and way past his best weight.

Whittaker is a much underrated fighter, but no way would he have made Duran quit, Duran quit because he had the shits and had been eating diuretics and laxatives by the fistfull in the runup to the bout after topping 200 lbs during party mode after beating Leonard. Leonard's masterstroke was that knowing that it was the biggest money fight for Duran at the time, offered him the fight but only if it was within a certain time frame.

A fully fit Duran would probably have just nicked it from Leonard again.

Duran v Whittaker would have been a great 50-50 fight, no way would Duran have been disgraced.

Loftgroov · Post by **Loftgroov** » 16 Feb 2006, 12:54

I think I need to get hold of some Duran fights to watch. I’ve seen little of him, except his involvement in the round-robin Fabulous Four fights, for which I have the DVD. When I think of Duran currently, all I see is him getting sparked by Hearns…..

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 16 Feb 2006, 12:56

Nile4000 wrote:Would he have beaten Sanchez in a rematch?

Sanchez is probably my favorite boxer, but I could see Gomez possibly winning a rematch.
I've never seen a braver fighter, that's for sure. Took some terrible beatings late in his career, as the drugs and parties caught up with him, but he NEVER gave up. Paying for it these days though..

Sanchez caught Gomez cold in the first round, a real shocker, and gives him the type of beating that would've finished 99% of fighters right there in the first.
Next time Wilfredo would've been ready for him, so I'd give him a shot at pulling off a points win.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 16 Feb 2006, 13:00

Loftgroov wrote:I think I need to get hold of some Duran fights to watch. I’ve seen little of him, except his involvement in the round-robin Fabulous Four fights, for which I have the DVD. When I think of Duran currently, all I see is him getting sparked by Hearns…..

Get hold of Duran v Barkley, for me that is his best performance, uses every trick in the bag to nick the decision from a bigger, stronger and more aggresive opponent, and even hurts Barkley into the bargain and knocks him down.

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 16 Feb 2006, 13:02

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Loftgroov wrote:I think I need to get hold of some Duran fights to watch. I’ve seen little of him, except his involvement in the round-robin Fabulous Four fights, for which I have the DVD. When I think of Duran currently, all I see is him getting sparked by Hearns…..
Get hold of Duran v Barkley, for me that is his best performance, uses every trick in the bag to nick the decision from a bigger, stronger and more aggresive opponent, and even hurts Barkley into the bargain and knocks him down.

Pick up a whole set of Duran incl his 3 fights with Dejesus, Davey Moore win, Barclay etc over on ebay for about £15. Well worth it

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 16 Feb 2006, 13:08

Yeah 3rd De Jesus fight is generaly reckoned to be his absolute peak. Think it's been shown of the Eurosport great fights series, so good copies exist.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 16 Feb 2006, 13:10

TerribleTerry wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Loftgroov wrote:I think I need to get hold of some Duran fights to watch. I’ve seen little of him, except his involvement in the round-robin Fabulous Four fights, for which I have the DVD. When I think of Duran currently, all I see is him getting sparked by Hearns…..
Get hold of Duran v Barkley, for me that is his best performance, uses every trick in the bag to nick the decision from a bigger, stronger and more aggresive opponent, and even hurts Barkley into the bargain and knocks him down.
Pick up a whole set of Duran incl his 3 fights with Dejesus, Davey Moore win, Barclay etc over on ebay for about £15. Well worth it

What ALL his fights! That's fornicating cracking, would love to have that.

Manos de Oro · Post by **Manos de Oro** » 16 Feb 2006, 14:23

Loftgroov wrote:When I think of Duran currently, all I see is him getting sparked by Hearns…..

Yeah, that sort of thing happens quite often. Fighters such as Bob Foster, Pipino Cuevas, Dwight Muhammad Qawi, Marvin Johnson, even Michael Spinks, get short changed by the TV system. I was going to put Mike Tyson down on this thread yesterday but couldn't be bothered explaining why -- though other people have written the reasons on the "haye the new lewis?!?! HA HA HA..." thread.