What is a COMPLETE FIGHTER in your view

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 15 Feb 2006, 11:05

I got the intrigue in the minds of you all, what do you think makes a COMPLETE FIGHTER.

Was Muhammad Ali a complete fighter??? He seems in the 60s very unbeatbale and fast with great skill, but once I read that the great trainer, the late Eddie Futch said that Ali never went to the body. All his punches were to the face. Watching Ali in his fights, Futch said the truth. Was Ali a complete fighter or not???

Here are some examples of complete fighters that I have seen in my lifetime:

Marvin Hagler
Roberto Duran
Salvador Sanchez
Sugar Ray Leonard
Miguel "Happy" Lora
Ricardo "Finito" Lopez
Floyd Mayweather, Jr.

In film, complete fighters that I have seen were Sugar Ray Robinson and Ezzard Charles. Some say that Eder Jofre was a complete son of a gun too. Any thoughts about this subject???

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 15 Feb 2006, 11:22

I like your list Elmer. We're yet to see if Floyd could force a stoppage if had really had to.

I like Charles. He boxed, traded, had KO power when he needed it.

Hearsn coud also jab and move, or stalk and punch. I'd also pick McCallum who had great skills, a sound defence, a great chin and good power.

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 15 Feb 2006, 11:31

Sugar Ray Robinson. He could Box , Punch, had defense, a chin ,heart, complete fighter .

wouter · Post by **wouter** » 15 Feb 2006, 11:32

Anyone but Craig Bodzianowski

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 15 Feb 2006, 11:40

Marvelous Marvin Hagler was the most complete fighter.

Even Sugar Ray couldn't effectively switch stances.

Even Salvador Sanchez couldn't become a swarmer to take out taller opponents.

Even Roberto Duran couldn't dance on the back foot and jab an opponent silly.

Hagler had or could do pretty much everything to a high standard.

Arsenal · Post by **Arsenal** » 15 Feb 2006, 12:09

I go with Hagler. Great chin, defence, fitness, punch etc.

He was one of them fighters I thought could never lose, even though he did. Every time he stepped into the ring I thought he would win. There's not many like that.

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 15 Feb 2006, 12:16

Arsenal wrote:I go with Hagler. Great chin, defence, fitness, punch etc.

He was one of them fighters I thought could never lose, even though he did. Every time he stepped into the ring I thought he would win. There's not many like that.

Although it must be noted that he was well past his prime by the time Leonard got to him. You probably knew that, but others don't.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 15 Feb 2006, 12:49

Although it must be noted that he was well past his prime by the time Leonard got to him

ya but so was leonard

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 15 Feb 2006, 12:50

marvin hagler
sugar ray robinson
ezzard charles
roberto duran
joe gans
joe louis
sugar ray leonard

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 15 Feb 2006, 12:52

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:
Although it must be noted that he was well past his prime by the time Leonard got to him
ya but so was leonard

We all know that. I was making sure people knew Hagler was past it, because many of them think he was in his prime. All they bang on about is how Leonard came back from retirement to beat a tyrant, when really that tyrant was ready for retyrant - I mean retirement.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 15 Feb 2006, 13:29

hagler was far better 77-82 which was his prime. hagler was special during those years.

im gonna go pop in hagler vs briscoe

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 15 Feb 2006, 13:50

'80-'83 really. He was great in the seventies, but it was the Antuofermo draw which made him more aggressive and, just, better.

Arsenal · Post by **Arsenal** » 15 Feb 2006, 15:01

Well I don' think leonard won that fight. Till this day I'll say that Hagler was robbed. I saw on a documentary or read it somewhere that in the hagler corner they were saying..."every time he throws a punch he misses but (can't remember how many thousand) x people cheer and the judges will score it"....2 or something like that.

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 15 Feb 2006, 16:22

Arsenal wrote:Well I don' think leonard won that fight. Till this day I'll say that Hagler was robbed. I saw on a documentary or read it somewhere that in the hagler corner they were saying..."every time he throws a punch he misses but (can't remember how many thousand) x people cheer and the judges will score it"....2 or something like that.

Yea. I've actually sat down and watched that fight in slow motion, with the sound turned down. Hagler lands the sharper blows, and most of Leonard's punches in those flurries miss. But the crowd loves him, so they cheer, and the judges score it. Pfff.

Arsenal · Post by **Arsenal** » 15 Feb 2006, 17:35

I think I was 10ish at the time and always thought how the hell did Leonard win? I didn't know too much about boxing but to me Hagler one it. Thats the first fight I can remember watching and thinking it was a wrong decision. Better still how did one judge have 118-110!

Arsenal · Post by **Arsenal** » 15 Feb 2006, 17:39

Also look at his KO record. Take out the draws and losses and out of 57 fights he KOed 52 people. Thats amazing in the modern era, well any era. Whats that 95%?

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 15 Feb 2006, 17:43

Who, Hagler? He had sixty two wins mate.

Arsenal · Post by **Arsenal** » 16 Feb 2006, 02:41

It was late last night and I was tired!

Anyway still a great KO %!

Double M you haven't got a copy of the Hagler/Mugabi fight or the KO to be precise?

vagabundo55 · Post by **vagabundo55** » 16 Feb 2006, 03:17

Monzon had a unique style but I think he was pretty much the complete package in his own way.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 16 Feb 2006, 05:25

DoubleM wrote:
Arsenal wrote:Well I don' think leonard won that fight. Till this day I'll say that Hagler was robbed. I saw on a documentary or read it somewhere that in the hagler corner they were saying..."every time he throws a punch he misses but (can't remember how many thousand) x people cheer and the judges will score it"....2 or something like that.
Yea. I've actually sat down and watched that fight in slow motion, with the sound turned down. Hagler lands the sharper blows, and most of Leonard's punches in those flurries miss. But the crowd loves him, so they cheer, and the judges score it. Pfff.

I went to see the fight on CCTV broadcast at a theatre in Birmingham. It looked like Ray was ready to drop in the final 3 rounds. Hagler just couldn't get to to him to bring about a stoppage. Even in the 9th Marvin has him going but he just can't land a clean enough shot.

Anyway, that night, I thought Ray won comfortably. The crowd was really cheering him on no matter what he did. I watched the regular TV broadcast the next day and saw that it was really a very close fight. So many people were caught up in the Ray Leonard Show. I definitely was one of them. I haven't seen the fight for years. Last time I scored it I think I had Ray winning by 1 point.

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 16 Feb 2006, 08:40

Arsenal wrote:It was late last night and I was tired! Anyway still a great KO %!

Double M you haven't got a copy of the Hagler/Mugabi fight or the KO to be precise?

I have the Mugabi fight, and every other Hagler fight. What do you mean, 'to be precise' though?

Arsenal · Post by **Arsenal** » 16 Feb 2006, 08:55

I was hoping you had the KO on an mpeg or some other media file that you could upload onto the forum?

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 16 Feb 2006, 08:59

Oh right, yea I can do that. Give me a day or two, already full up with orders.

Arsenal · Post by **Arsenal** » 16 Feb 2006, 09:01

Cheers mate! Appreciated!

bigzab · Post by **bigzab** » 16 Feb 2006, 10:25

ZAB JUDAH.