Pathompothong and Kobayashi Won Recent Bouts

[KSTAT124]

Friday, April 22-

7th Infantry Division, Mae Rim, Chiang Mai, Thailand

Super Lightweight Bout-
Patomsuk Pathompothong (32-4-1, 1 ND, 19 KOs)
PTS. 6
Jacob Hutter (0-1)
- http://www.fightnews.com/Boxing/sakkree ... ore-334637

(Note: there are other bouts listed in the above article which also are missing from BoxRec's records).

Saturday, April 23-

Osaka, Osaka, Japan-

Vacant World Boxing Federation World Super Bantamweight Title-
Kentaro Kobayashi (9-0-1, 2 KOs)
Unan. Tech. Dec. 9
Kenichi Yamaguchi (19-4-2, 1 NC, 5 KOs)
- http://www.worldboxingfederation.net/ar ... le0642.htm

[KSTAT124]

bump

[John]

There is a very active thread on the editors forum where we are discussing Thailand and the amount of impersonation going on. We may be tightening up and what we are prepared to accept from there.

[KSTAT124]

There is a very active thread on the editors forum where we are discussing Thailand and the amount of impersonation going on. We may be tightening up and what we are prepared to accept from there.

As for this particular card, BoxRec has reported the results of two of its bouts in which Fahlan Sakkreerin Jr. outpointed Lester Abutan and Ryan Ford stopped Manus Boonjumnong. The the results of the undercard bouts, which were reported by FightNews, are missing from the BoxRec database.

The WBFed title bout in Osaka also is still not listed by BoxRec. I can see why because there seems to be confusion regarding the result which was first reported as a technical decision win for Kobayashi. Mr. Baum's article has since been edited and now shows the result as a technical draw with the scores being 86-86, 88-85 for Yamaguchi, and 86-95 for Kobayashi.

[John]

Yes, but the question is are they who they claim to be ?

[Boxing Prospect]

The WBFed bout wasn't sanctioned by the JBC, wonder who did sanction it...

[KSTAT124]

Yes, but the question is are they who they claim to be ?

Or, the question could be "what makes you think they're not who they claim to be?"

The other fight results listed in Mr. Baum's article, Isabel Millan's UD 10 Amira Hamzaoui and Sefer Seferi TKO 2 Laszlo Hubert, are shown by BoxRec, so why doubt the accuracy of his correction- Kentaro Kobayashi Tech. Draw 9 Kenichi Yamiguchi?

BoxRec includes the disclaimer of "data may be incomplete/inaccurate" below every fighter's record. Why not list the result of the Kobayashi-Yamiguchi fight using Mr. Baum's piece as the source with a link to Mr. Baum's article posted as an encyclopedia entry?

The same holds true for the fights from Thailand. BoxRec already lists two results from the card, Fahlan Sakkreerin, Jr. SD 12 Lester Abutan and Ryan Ford TKO 5 Manus Boonjumnong. Why not list Mr. Wheatley's article as the source of the card's other bouts? The disclaimer will be there for each record and if a discrepancy is discovered at a later date, a correction can then be made.

In addition, there were fights listed by BoxRec that no longer appear:

Saturday, April 23, 2016-

Lagoon Leisure Center, Paisley, Scotland, United Kingdom-

Vacant World Boxing Foundation World Cruiserweight Title-
Tony Moran (17-6, 6 KOs)
Maj. Dec. 12
Sandy Robb (11-3-1, 5 KOs)
- The scores were 118-112, 118-111, and 115-115.
- http://www.worldboxingfoundation.com/ne ... ight-title

Vacant World Boxing Foundation World Super Welterweight Title-
Craig Docherty (27-7-2, 11 KOs)
Split Dec. Draw 12
Chris Symonds (18-9-1, 5 KOs)
- The scores were 116-114 for Symonds, 118-111 for Docherty, and 115-115.
- http://www.worldboxingfoundation.com/ne ... ins-vacant
- Docherty's WBU (U.S.-based version) World title was not on the line.

Vacant World Boxing Foundation International Welterweight Title-
Sammy Hill (7-1, 0 KOs)
Unan. Dec. 8
Chris Wood (3-2, 1 KO)
- This was Hill's first bout since his PTS. 4 win over Ryan Fields on November 2, 2013.

[John]

We endeavour to be accurate and we know the Thai's fake results and boxers all the time. Now we are trying to use video to establish that fights actually happened and build a library of passports and identity cards to enable us to identify who the boxers are in those fights.

[KSTAT124]

We endeavour to be accurate and we know the Thai's fake results and boxers all the time. Now we are trying to use video to establish that fights actually happened and build a library of passports and identity cards to enable us to identify who the boxers are in those fights.

That answers my questions regarding the fights in Thailand but what about those in Japan and Scotland?

[John]

Well it depends upon what you want to record as professional boxing. There are loads of "unofficial" / "white collar" / "toughman" / "veteran boxers " / "gym fights" / "paid sparring" and so on and so on boxing events that we do not record in the system.

[KSTAT124]

Kobayashi, Yamaguchi, Moran, Robb, Docherty, Symonds, Hill, and Wood are all professional boxers with records listed by BoxRec. So why aren't their most recent bouts listed? You list other bouts sanctioned by the World Boxing Federation and the World Boxing Foundation, so why not these?

[John]

Well it depends upon what you want to record as professional boxing. There are loads of "unofficial" / "white collar" / "toughman" / "veteran boxers " / "gym fights" / "paid sparring" and so on and so on boxing events that we do not record in the system.

[KSTAT124]

Well it depends upon what you want to record as professional boxing. There are loads of "unofficial" / "white collar" / "toughman" / "veteran boxers " / "gym fights" / "paid sparring" and so on and so on boxing events that we do not record in the system.

You're being redundant without answering my question.

[John]

What else can I say, how do you define professional boxing, where do you draw the line ?

[KSTAT124]

What else can I say, how do you define professional boxing, where do you draw the line ?

If you list other bouts sanctioned by the WBFederation and the WBFoundation, why not these? Why did you draw the line with these bouts?

[John]

The WBF are not a boxing commission they are a sanctioning body. As long as someone paid them their fee they would sanction anything.

[KSTAT124]

The WBF are not a boxing commission they are a sanctioning body. As long as someone paid them their fee they would sanction anything.

So why would you list some of their title bouts and not others?

If you're endeavoring to be accurate, how can you justify listing incomplete World Boxing Federation and World Boxing Foundation title histories? If you're going to list those lesser sanctioning bodies' title bouts, you can't pick and choose which of those title bouts to list. It's either all or none.

[John]

We list professional boxing bouts that are under the jurisdiction of recognised professional boxing commissions. Whether a title is at stake or not is of little to no consequence.

[KSTAT124]

We list professional boxing bouts that are under the jurisdiction of recognised professional boxing commissions. Whether a title is at stake or not is of little to no consequence.

But you list titles. How can you have an accurate history of those titles if you knowingly leave some title bouts out? How can you have accurate records for fighters if you leave bouts that you know took place out? The bouts in question were not paid sparring sessions, gym fights, or toughman contests, etc., and, in the case of the bouts that took place in Scotland, their results were initially listed by BoxRec.

[John]

There are 100s of boxers who due to medical reasons have lost their pro license to box from a recognised commission and then go on to box for an unrecognised commission, should we include them all just for the sake of completeness. Should we include 65 year old ex pros who box on working men's club shows for the sake of completeness ? And if we include the over 65s who were once pros we also have to include their opponents who might never have boxed pro. And so on and so on .....

[KSTAT124]

There are 100s of boxers who due to medical reasons have lost their pro license to box from a recognised commission and then go on to box for an unrecognised commission, should we include them all just for the sake of completeness. Should we include 65 year old ex pros who box on working men's club shows for the sake of completeness ? And if we include the over 65s who were once pros we also have to include their opponents who might never have boxed pro. And so on and so on .....

Again, the bouts in question were not working men's club show fights, paid sparring sessions, or toughman contests. The boxers involved were not 65-year-olds or fighters who had never fought professionally before. The four fighters involved in the World Boxing Foundation "World" title bouts were all veteran fighters whose BoxRec records all show at least one bout in 2015.

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