Shaquille O'Neal vs Mike Tyson (20 yrs old)

[jamesmcdonnell]

remember all those roided up football players in the 80's who wanted to fight tyson
for 10's of millions, but when tyson said, "ok just beat someone in the top 15 first"
not one of them was willing to even try. think about it. 10's of millions of dollars
for a fight with tyson (who you sincerely believe you belong in a ring with) but
you are not willing to beat ONE GUY well below tyson's level to earn the opportunity?
we are just talking about ONE. i think mandarich was one, probably just using the
controversy he could start to sign a bigger rookie contract. if you aren't willing to
even fight ONE journeyman to earn a title shot, then you might as well be talking
about what you would do in a light saber duel against darth vader or road race
against speedy gonzalez. i would be shocked if shaq or chamberlain could last more
than 3 rounds with anyone in the top 50 if they trained for a year.
"too tall" was probably the only one to give it an honest effort and he actually beat
the mexican champ. he knew when the freak show was over and went back to the
NFL when he would have had to step up and fight someone ranked and get embarrased.
http://boxrec.com/boxer/33709

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Gastineau

i don't need to click that. i remember his oppoenents all turned out to be paid to lose and he
got wrecked by another NFL guy and i think he went to prison for a while. "honest effort" were
the key words. there are other guys from football and basketball and baseball that tried boxing
as well, but scary to think jones was probably the best of them all and he was really just a quick
sideshow. you would think if it was such a possibility that someone from a big league sport
could just jump into title contention that at least one would have been able to beat anyone
in the top 50 by now. breazeale was a division I football player, but he boxed since he was
a teenager. i know there is a british level guy, woodhouse, who played premier league and
some heavyweights who played rugby and aussie rules.

My point is, he was shite. Just like any athlete crossing over from another sport at a late age would be. I remember reading about him at the time in the ring, and thinking he looked like a massive roid head.

Probably the best example of a crossover I've seen is the former professional football player in the UK who did well as a boxer, Curtis Woodhouse, he made it to British Title level, which really was some achievement. - Oh hang on - snap.

As you say, Woodhouse had an amateur background, and had chosen to go pro with football instead, which is not the same as someone suddenly switching to a new sport.

It's no accident that pretty much every single elite level fighter, has been competing from a very young age. Can anyone name a current or former world champion who didn't have an amateur background in boxing, or at least some sort of fighting art?

[Cyclops]

I don't know what Shaq looked like when he was 20, but there's a good chance Mike would win a boxing match.

End thread!

[IKSRTFO]

Ridiculous Crap. Did O'Neal ever WANT to fight MIke Tyson??? NO!!! Shaq and Mike were friends.. Wilt and Ali were NOT friends

Did O'Neal ever pull down 55 rebounds in a game to set the all-time NBA record??? outrebounding the entire other team???? Did O'Neal ever score 100 points in a single game to set the all-time NBA record??? Did O'Neal ever play more minutes then every other player in the NBA for many straight seasons??? Did O'Neal ever lead the NBA in assists??? Did O'Neal ever lead the NBA in field goal percentage as Chamberlain did MANY TIMES??? Does O'Neal hold the NBA record for most foul shots scored in a game??? Was Shaq super a super fast guy who often beat opposing guards down the court??? O'Neal couldn't come close to doing ANY of that and Wilt Chamberlain did ALL of that.. Plus.. Wilt Chamberlain never fouled out of an NBA game like Shaq did multiple times. Wilt had a lot of finesse and Shaq had very little.

Just because somebody is 7' tall doesn't mean that you're as good as Wilt Chamberlain. There are approximately 70 men in America over 7 feet tall who are of NBA Basketball playing age. An unbelievable high 17% of them are good enough athletes to play in the NBA. But most of the 7 footers who make it to the NBA are pretty miserable scorers, passers, or assist men. They simply lack the coordination. They're mainly bench players who are used for shot blocking, rebounding or other situations. If you're over 7' tall and you can play at all you're a pretty damned valuable guy. Less than .07% of men between 6'6" and 6'8" get to even sit on the bench during an NBA game and that's one out of 1429 men that tall. So you see how valuable 5 to 7 more inches is. Wilt Chamberlain is the most unusual athletic specimen in sports history ... and that's why Muhammad Ali TALKED big about fighting Wilt, but refused to sign the painstakingly negotiated contract that lawyers spent a lot of time putting together, to FIGHT Wilt. Ali chickened out in the end.

Not debating Wilt's greatness but he did all of this in an era where they thought basketball was dying. Shaq for sure played in a more competitive era.

[jas80s]

I have never read one of these types of threads where someone was honestly and vehemently advancing the notion that a total outsider with extremely limited boxing experience could and would beat a fighter who was not only a professional, but thought of as one of the very best fighters ever....very, very entertaining.

But, I think one of the other massive differences that is rarely mentioned is you have to get used to getting hit in the face. I don't care what kind of athlete you are, getting hit hard in the face by Muhammad Ali HAS to be shocking. This is part of the learing curve as well when you spend your entire life learning how to do something like boxing.

Anyway, the idea that even a great athlete could come in off of one training camp and beat one of the best fighters of all time makes a mockery of the idea that there is any "science" to boxing at all. You may as well argue that Chamberlain would have won Wimbledon or the Masters after a couple of lessons as well. After all, with his athleticism he could hit the ball harder or further than anyone...

[Kalan]

"Then, Ali said he would start to hit back when Jimmy was trying to hit him. And Ali hit him in the face with an open palm and slapped him about 20 times before Jimmy could get out of the way. Jimmy was one of the great athletes ever, but boxing is a different sport and that's why I don't think Chamberlain wouldn't have been much of a threat."

Just a total BS made up story from a partisan Boxing professional. Ask Jim Brown about that because he tagged Ali with jabs in the stomach and jabs in the face when they did a little boxing play acting, and you know they were not going to get into a street fight because Brown would murder Ali. Ali had fragile hands and Brown was tough as nails and had bigger, stronger hands. But Ali would probably beat Brown in a boxing match and I don't think Brown was that interesting in taking up boxing or beating Ali. He damaged his left hand and grip a little from stiff arming tacklers and would not have had a great jab. Brown was much faster than Ali in a foot race and Wilt was faster than Brown. You can ask Brown about this too. Wilt wanted to win the Heavyweight Title from Ali and that is well documented. So is the fact that Ali refused to sign the negotiated contract that called for a six month training camp and over half a million dollars for Wilt. That's the true story... The story that Wilt used the Ali fight to leverage up his contract with the Lakers is the phony story. Jack Kent Cooke was behind Wilt in his desire to win the Heavyweight Title. Ali chickened out.

[CaptainSpacerod]

Ridiculous Crap. Did O'Neal ever WANT to fight MIke Tyson??? NO!!! Shaq and Mike were friends.. Wilt and Ali were NOT friends

There are approximately 70 men in America over 7 feet tall who are of NBA Basketball playing age.

That can't be true

[foxdog1923]

so than robert wadlow beats anybody ?

Well??....yes.

Kalan where are you? We got a guy here who doesn't know that you just have to be tall to be the best boxer.

Kalown should post soon. He does tall posts ;)

i know

wadlow kos prime tua, tua wouldnt even touch his head, only body, that wouldnt work, cause wadlow has a strong body, wadlow put out his jab and jab him to pulp

the new lists of p4p best ever boxer

1. robert wadlow
2. charlie z
3. the guy who made an entrance like prince naseem hamed

you don't even need arms. Height wins fight :)

[jamesmcdonnell]

Ridiculous Crap. Did O'Neal ever WANT to fight MIke Tyson??? NO!!! Shaq and Mike were friends.. Wilt and Ali were NOT friends

There are approximately 70 men in America over 7 feet tall who are of NBA Basketball playing age.

That can't be true

It's possible, people over 7 foot are exceptionally rare.

[keithmoonhangover]

Shaq and Mike were friends..

Please explain what friendship has to do with a boxing match?

[Kalan]

1. robert wadlow 2. charlie z 3. the guy who made an entrance like prince naseem hamed

you don't even need arms[/quote]

You're very ignorant foxdog. To even play in the NBA if you're below 6'11" you need very many outstanding athletic assets. Exceptional height is ONLY ONE outstanding asset that not very many NBA players lack. The average 7-footer wouldn't have a prayer of playing in the NBA.. Out of millions of high school players and 100's of thousands of college players you don't have much of a chance. The 4200 division 1 players are heavily scouted so they have a much better chance. There are about 430 NBA players but there's a lot of foreign players competing - and not that many roster spots open each year. As existing players are cut or retire you get a chance.

A boxer doesn't need any qualifications or experience to fight. He can show up at a gym and say he wants be a pro - and a few weeks later he might get a fight depending on how desperate he is to get a paycheck. A decent athlete with almost no skills can fight 30 guys such that and be 30-0 without being very good. Sean O'Grady was 29-0 when he fought Danny lopez. He fought 15 guys making their pro debut and 1 guy with a winning record in those 29 fights - but a guy coming off 2 horrific KO losses. O'Grady fought guys making their pro debut as late as his 50th fight.

An NBA player goes against the top athletes in the country night after night. In a single season that lasts 6 months Wilt competed in many more games and Ali had fights in his whole career.. Every game was 48 minutes and Wilt was taking a pounding under the boards every night. He led the NBA in minutes played year after year. You can eliminate all the gimme fights Ali had with people who couldn't fight - like Richard Dunn, Jean Pierre Coopman, Chuck Wepner, Rudi lubbers, Alfredo Evangelista, and Brian London who couldn't fight to save their ass. Most of Ali's opponents were really terrible athletes compared to the level of competition Chamberlain faced in every game.

But if a guy can't play in the NBA where's he going to go??? One place is Boxing. He can rack up a lot of wins because the competition is so poor. Too Tall Jones played every week in Football so he wanted to fight every week. After he smashed out Fernando Montes in 41 seconds they couldn't find him an decent opponent, much less get him a fight every week.. This is anyone's problem who's a crushing killer. Who wants to fight him except somebody who's desperate for money??? In Basketball you have to play the next team on the schedule, but Ali could reap all the free publicity from the Chamberlain hype and not fight him. Same with Canelo Alvarez.. He could say "We don't FK AROUND" ... and then fk everybody around.

[dberry]

Shaq and Mike were friends..

Please explain what friendship has to do with a boxing match?

How's things Keefy? I think heard Tyson, in an interview, say that O'Neil was his cousin. Didn't O'Neil get toweled up buy DeLaHoya or Mosely? A giant of a man out boxed by a lightweight yet O'Neil is going to beat Mike Tyson and Chamberland is going to spark Ali

[Kalan]

Shaq and Mike were friends..

Please explain what friendship has to do with a boxing match?

You don't knock your friends out. You don't knock your brother out. You don't look for a fight with a close friend who's a boxer if you're a basketball player. Especially if you don't have great talent for being a boxer in the first place... if you tend to get fat... and if you don't have natural endurance... Shaq's sparring sessions with Mosley and De La Hoya weren't real fights.. Shaq was retired, fat, and out-of-shape.. He was 39, he had 2 weeks to train, and he thought he deserved both decisions easily because he landed better and more effective punches.. When he tagged Oscar a half good one he let up immediately and that was the agreement.. And if you watch those sparring sessions you know Shaq won and Boxing partisans robbed him.

[keithmoonhangover]

Shaq and Mike were friends..

Please explain what friendship has to do with a boxing match?

You don't knock your friends out. You don't knock your brother out. You don't look for a fight with a close friend who's a boxer if you're a basketball player. Especially if you don't have great talent for being a boxer in the first place... if you tend to get fat... and if you don't have natural endurance... Shaq's sparring sessions with Mosley and De La Hoya weren't real fights.. Shaq was retired, fat, and out-of-shape.. He was 39, he had 2 weeks to train, and he thought he deserved both decisions easily because he landed better and more effective punches.. When he tagged Oscar a half good one he let up immediately and that was the agreement.. And if you watch those sparring sessions you know Shaq won and Boxing partisans robbed him.

This is conclusive proof that you know nothing about boxing.

Simon Brown and Maurice Blocker were best friends. The were each other's best man at their weddings. They fought each other and it was a brutal fight.

Friends do fight each other. If you knew your boxing, you would know that there are dozens examples of friends fighting each other.

Instead of obsessing about Wilt Chamberlain, you might want to pick up the odd boxing book.

[sucracristo]

Please explain what friendship has to do with a boxing match?

You don't knock your friends out. You don't knock your brother out. You don't look for a fight with a close friend who's a boxer if you're a basketball player. Especially if you don't have great talent for being a boxer in the first place... if you tend to get fat... and if you don't have natural endurance... Shaq's sparring sessions with Mosley and De La Hoya weren't real fights.. Shaq was retired, fat, and out-of-shape.. He was 39, he had 2 weeks to train, and he thought he deserved both decisions easily because he landed better and more effective punches.. When he tagged Oscar a half good one he let up immediately and that was the agreement.. And if you watch those sparring sessions you know Shaq won and Boxing partisans robbed him.

This is conclusive proof that you know nothing about boxing.

Simon Brown and Maurice Blocker were best friends. The were each other's best man at their weddings. They fought each other and it was a brutal fight.

Friends do fight each other. If you knew your boxing, you would know that there are dozens examples of friends fighting each other.

Instead of obsessing about Wilt Chamberlain, you might want to pick up the odd boxing book.

first one that came to mind for me was holyfield-tillman. if i remember it right they were roomates at the 84 olympics
and became best friends and one was best man at the other's wedding. holyfield ko'd tillman. i remembered lots
of brothers in the amateurs who used to spar in the gym all the time and i swear i was in a tournament once that
had brother face each other. i think they were actually twins but maybe i'm wrong about that.
i was curious so i looked it up and found this guy http://boxrec.com/boxer/13442
look at the last name of the guy in his first title fight. knocked his brother out.
also, look 5 fights up from this guy's first title http://boxrec.com/boxer/7022
doesn't seem fair that a guy whose only loss in almost 60 fights was to 83-0 julio cesar chaves,
fights his own brother who is only 3-0, but 5th round ko. http://boxrec.com/boxer/7022
this guy tko'd his brother in mma http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Thomas-Treadwell-128503

[Cutman Scabbers]

Aren't there also stories of world champions giving their down-and-out friends title shots
so they could make a few bucks, and knocking them out as soon as possible to spare them
an extended beating?

[cocka09]

Sometimes I really hate the internet - it gives every moron with an opinion a platform to sprout their nonsense.

[jamesmcdonnell]

1. robert wadlow 2. charlie z 3. the guy who made an entrance like prince naseem hamed

you don't even need arms

You're very ignorant foxdog. To even play in the NBA if you're below 6'11" you need very many outstanding athletic assets. Exceptional height is ONLY ONE outstanding asset that not very many NBA players lack. The average 7-footer wouldn't have a prayer of playing in the NBA.. Out of millions of high school players and 100's of thousands of college players you don't have much of a chance. The 4200 division 1 players are heavily scouted so they have a much better chance. There are about 430 NBA players but there's a lot of foreign players competing - and not that many roster spots open each year. As existing players are cut or retire you get a chance.

A boxer doesn't need any qualifications or experience to fight. He can show up at a gym and say he wants be a pro - and a few weeks later he might get a fight depending on how desperate he is to get a paycheck. A decent athlete with almost no skills can fight 30 guys such that and be 30-0 without being very good. Sean O'Grady was 29-0 when he fought Danny lopez. He fought 15 guys making their pro debut and 1 guy with a winning record in those 29 fights - but a guy coming off 2 horrific KO losses. O'Grady fought guys making their pro debut as late as his 50th fight.

An NBA player goes against the top athletes in the country night after night. In a single season that lasts 6 months Wilt competed in many more games and Ali had fights in his whole career.. Every game was 48 minutes and Wilt was taking a pounding under the boards every night. He led the NBA in minutes played year after year. You can eliminate all the gimme fights Ali had with people who couldn't fight - like Richard Dunn, Jean Pierre Coopman, Chuck Wepner, Rudi lubbers, Alfredo Evangelista, and Brian London who couldn't fight to save their ass. Most of Ali's opponents were really terrible athletes compared to the level of competition Chamberlain faced in every game.

But if a guy can't play in the NBA where's he going to go??? One place is Boxing. He can rack up a lot of wins because the competition is so poor. Too Tall Jones played every week in Football so he wanted to fight every week. After he smashed out Fernando Montes in 41 seconds they couldn't find him an decent opponent, much less get him a fight every week.. This is anyone's problem who's a crushing killer. Who wants to fight him except somebody who's desperate for money??? In Basketball you have to play the next team on the schedule, but Ali could reap all the free publicity from the Chamberlain hype and not fight him. Same with Canelo Alvarez.. He could say "We don't FK AROUND" ... and then fk everybody around.[/quote]

Why don't you go find an NBA forum? It's clearly your passion.

WTF are you going on about Shaq sparring pro boxers for, what is the relevance.

Seriously, I think you must be disturbed.

I'll say it again, Bob Arum, THE PROMOER WHO PROMOTED THE ALI -CHAMBERLAIN FIGHT -is on record as saying that WILT CHAMBERLAIN REFUSED TO SIGN THE CONTRACT WITH ALI.

Can I make it any clearer?