Negatives On Floyd's Legacy

[Pureist]

What was floyds weight against JMM husker, could you please inform me as I have forgotten, wasn't he quite unprofessional aswell, could you fill in the blank please husker

[man]

near prime; pacquiao, canelo

disintelligent statements.

Ironically, there is no such word as 'disintelligent.'

It's Unintelligent. Or if you prefer, ignorant.

no irony, that was intentional. unintelligent
means lack of intelligence, disintelligence
takes it a step further.

[man]

near prime; pacquiao, canelo

disintelligent statements.

disintelligent

I agree btw, but that's a brilliant word in so many ways.

(thnx for getting it right.)

[jamesmcdonnell]

disintelligent statements.

Ironically, there is no such word as 'disintelligent.'

It's Unintelligent. Or if you prefer, ignorant.

no irony, that was intentional. unintelligent
means lack of intelligence, disintelligence
takes it a step further.

Ah, I take it back then fam.

[boxing_rocks]

[Badhusker]

What was floyds weight against JMM husker, could you please inform me as I have forgotten, wasn't he quite unprofessional aswell, could you fill in the blank please husker

Floyd weighed in at 146, two pounds more than JMM. I believe he paid a hefty fine of about 600K for being 2lbs over. He was apparently smart enough and talented enough to totally shut out and basically embarrass the #2pfp guy in the world. If you think the weight had anything to do with it, you are much dumber than I thought.

[Syntax Error]

He didn't fight Wilt Chamberlain!

[tiny_acres]

He didn't fight Wilt Chamberlain!

He also never faced either Klitschko.
He's such a duck

[world ranked]

Its easy to find negatives for most any boxer's legacy, but a few of the ones mentioned in this thread questionable, and some are laughable.

Floyd called out both Mosley and DLH in the early 2000's, and would have moved up to fight them. Neither were interested. When he did fight DLH, it was at 154, and Floyd was outweighed by 16 or 17 lbs fight night. If Floyd would have fought DLH at 147, there would not be a discussion about DLH beating him earlier. We saw a year or so later how DLH performed at 147. DLH had just turned 34, so to say he was way past his prime is a stretch, with only about 40 fights.

When Floyd fought Mosley in 2010, Pacquiao had turned him (Mosley) down for a fight with Roach saying he was too dangerous, too good of a fighter. Mosley was the #1 or #2 welter at the time. Roach and many others said Floyd would never take that fight.

When Cotto was in his "prime", never did he make an offer to fight Floyd, and had not after that either. Hell, Cotto didn't even fight the other top 140 guys at the time, when Tszyu, Ricky Hatton, Mayeather, and Arturo Gatti were all at the weight. Cotto was struggling to make 147, so the 145 lb catchweight wasn't a good idea for him. Floyd eventually fought him at 154, so like DLH, was a much better version than what Pac fought.

Pacquiao ducked the test, and pulled out of the fight because of it in 2010, and Roach later admitted the fight not happening then was on them. Still, some of you think Floyd did the ducking. For some reason, Pacquiao refused to be randomly tested during his "prime".

Floyd also gets criticized for fighting JMM, who called Floyd out after his retirement of nearly 2 years. JMM was #2pfp at the time, and the odds were only 2-1 in Floyds favor. I suppose someone will spin that as a negative on his legacy too.

Odds where not 2 to 1 vs JMM

[Pureist]

Its easy to find negatives for most any boxer's legacy, but a few of the ones mentioned in this thread questionable, and some are laughable.

Floyd called out both Mosley and DLH in the early 2000's, and would have moved up to fight them. Neither were interested. When he did fight DLH, it was at 154, and Floyd was outweighed by 16 or 17 lbs fight night. If Floyd would have fought DLH at 147, there would not be a discussion about DLH beating him earlier. We saw a year or so later how DLH performed at 147. DLH had just turned 34, so to say he was way past his prime is a stretch, with only about 40 fights.

When Floyd fought Mosley in 2010, Pacquiao had turned him (Mosley) down for a fight with Roach saying he was too dangerous, too good of a fighter. Mosley was the #1 or #2 welter at the time. Roach and many others said Floyd would never take that fight.

When Cotto was in his "prime", never did he make an offer to fight Floyd, and had not after that either. Hell, Cotto didn't even fight the other top 140 guys at the time, when Tszyu, Ricky Hatton, Mayeather, and Arturo Gatti were all at the weight. Cotto was struggling to make 147, so the 145 lb catchweight wasn't a good idea for him. Floyd eventually fought him at 154, so like DLH, was a much better version than what Pac fought.

Pacquiao ducked the test, and pulled out of the fight because of it in 2010, and Roach later admitted the fight not happening then was on them. Still, some of you think Floyd did the ducking. For some reason, Pacquiao refused to be randomly tested during his "prime".

Floyd also gets criticized for fighting JMM, who called Floyd out after his retirement of nearly 2 years. JMM was #2pfp at the time, and the odds were only 2-1 in Floyds favor. I suppose someone will spin that as a negative on his legacy too.

See husker, I didn't need to spin it as a negative, you did, if the 2lb didn't make any difference, then why did floyd pay 1.2 mill if I remember correct, if it made no difference then floyd I'm sure would have made weight, so yes there is a definite negative when it comes to the JMM fight, imagine canelo came in 2lb heavy at the weigh in, floyd would still be talking about it, you seem to forget many things such as making maidana wear pillows, chucked a tantrum until he agreed even though horse hair is completely legitimate,tried the same with pacquaio, the IV incident, being allowed to inject his hands, being given a TUE by usada even though they had no authority to issue one, floyds legacy has dark clouds all over it

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

But a lot of top guys over the years have ducked fighters for one reason or the other. Marciano wasn't too interested in the other Floyd (Patterson). Dempsey would have nothing to do with a black fighter.

- This reply ain't for you since you have some history on this forum and may be uneducable, but is rather for any pubescent boxing fans who may not know how to use boxrec to access fighter records to follow the timelines involved that refute these myths.

Rocky's last year came in 1955, and it was typical in that all during his reign he fought Ring ranked heavies. He knocked out Don Cockell, and then the #1 ranked heavy who also held the LH title, Archie Moore who was starting his incredible 10 year domination of those two divisions. The 20 year old Patterson started that year at 168 lbs fighting 8 rds and finished touching the heavyweight minimums fighting 10 rds, so he was far too immature that year. The guy the ninnies usually say Rocky ducked was the big Cuban, Nino Valdez, problem being that Moore beat him up. Had Rocky fought Nino, todays ninnies would be screaming he ducked Moore, so instead Rocky fought the guy universally listed as one of the elite all time P4Ps.

The usuals also claim that Rocky ducked Liston, but clearly the record shows Sonny didn't turn pro until 1953 and was fighting journeymen and avenging his broken jaw in 1955 against little Marty Marshall. Liston soon served prison time and wasn't a contender until 1958, so another baseless ducking ascertain shot down. The boxing media often mirrors some of the low brow nature of the sport by spreading these myths, like the claim that Rocky padded his record by fighting his brother umpteen times, something that ranks with the Easter Bunny masterminding 911.

Now, as to Dempsey ducking black contenders and more specifically Harry Wills: There were no black contenders of note except Wills during Jack's title reign. Dempsey did fight a few black fighters coming up, but most of his bouts before becoming an icon occurred out west where the black population was nil, need I say more? He did famously fight a noted black contender in NYC name of John Lester Johnson where Dempsey was cheated by a local conman passing himself off as a manager after he sent a telegram to Dempsey's real manager claiming he needed to return back west because of a family emergency. Jack's record against those 3 NYC fighters was 2 decisions and a draw against Johnson in what appeared to be a battle for the ages over 10 rounds. Jack did all this sleeping on park benches and eating out of soup kitchens because he wasn't getting paid, and now had his ribs busted in, so he rode his empty pockets on the rails back west where he met up with Jack Kearns and the rest is the kind of history that turned boxing into the ultimate spectacle sport.

The Wills fight couldn't get made because the money men and politicians didn't want to take a precarious risk of another nationwide riot as happened after Jeffries/Johnson. Fight films were banned and boxing was illegal in much of the US, so the few states where this could be held refused to sanction the bout. Jack had gone the extra mile by ditching his HOF Promoter and manager, Tex Rickard and Kearns, to sign twice with Wills, anyone could look it up. Ironically by having the smaller guarantee, Wills cashed his $50,000 check before Jack got to the bank and used it to buy an apartment building that supported him when the depression hit whereas Dempsey had to come back and work in boxing. Dempsey's much larger check was never made good because whatever money the promoter had lined up, it never came through.

As to TUE 49-0, well I have to admit that he is the best nonfighting fighter of canned nonfights in his hometown where he owned his own drug testing agency, commish, ref, judges, and even his own announcer, Slapsie Maxie Kellerman. He's in his own class of one but hardly merits mention as an all time great fighter. Anytime things got too hot, he'd run off to retirement. Even had a documented mental meltdown resulting in felony convictions and incarcerated in his own cell so as to protect his preciousness from all them scary boogeymen his daddy was always warning him about. Don't recall Archie Moore or Joe Louis running away in the middle of a fight to go squallin' for their daddies, but of course TUE is more extra special than them. The majority on this forum own him and share his effemination of boxing, but hey, ho, it's a new world order with harder women and softer men, and so be it. Kinda funny too like the women bullying men thread, wow, who'd have ever thunk it? Y'all could stop that with a platoon of TUE's 300 lb bodyguards. Just sayin.

[Tony1244]

But a lot of top guys over the years have ducked fighters for one reason or the other. Marciano wasn't too interested in the other Floyd (Patterson). Dempsey would have nothing to do with a black fighter.

- This reply ain't for you since you have some history on this forum and may be uneducable, but is rather for any pubescent boxing fans who may not know how to use boxrec to access fighter records to follow the timelines involved that refute these myths.

Rocky's last year came in 1955, and it was typical in that all during his reign he fought Ring ranked heavies. He knocked out Don Cockell, and then the #1 ranked heavy who also held the LH title, Archie Moore who was starting his incredible 10 year domination of those two divisions. The 20 year old Patterson started that year at 168 lbs fighting 8 rds and finished touching the heavyweight minimums fighting 10 rds, so he was far too immature that year. The guy the ninnies usually say Rocky ducked was the big Cuban, Nino Valdez, problem being that Moore beat him up. Had Rocky fought Nino, todays ninnies would be screaming he ducked Moore, so instead Rocky fought the guy universally listed as one of the elite all time P4Ps.

The usuals also claim that Rocky ducked Liston, but clearly the record shows Sonny didn't turn pro until 1953 and was fighting journeymen and avenging his broken jaw in 1955 against little Marty Marshall. Liston soon served prison time and wasn't a contender until 1958, so another baseless ducking ascertain shot down. The boxing media often mirrors some of the low brow nature of the sport by spreading these myths, like the claim that Rocky padded his record by fighting his brother umpteen times, something that ranks with the Easter Bunny masterminding 911.

Now, as to Dempsey ducking black contenders and more specifically Harry Wills: There were no black contenders of note except Wills during Jack's title reign. Dempsey did fight a few black fighters coming up, but most of his bouts before becoming an icon occurred out west where the black population was nil, need I say more? He did famously fight a noted black contender in NYC name of John Lester Johnson where Dempsey was cheated by a local conman passing himself off as a manager after he sent a telegram to Dempsey's real manager claiming he needed to return back west because of a family emergency. Jack's record against those 3 NYC fighters was 2 decisions and a draw against Johnson in what appeared to be a battle for the ages over 10 rounds. Jack did all this sleeping on park benches and eating out of soup kitchens because he wasn't getting paid, and now had his ribs busted in, so he rode his empty pockets on the rails back west where he met up with Jack Kearns and the rest is the kind of history that turned boxing into the ultimate spectacle sport.

The Wills fight couldn't get made because the money men and politicians didn't want to take a precarious risk of another nationwide riot as happened after Jeffries/Johnson. Fight films were banned and boxing was illegal in much of the US, so the few states where this could be held refused to sanction the bout. Jack had gone the extra mile by ditching his HOF Promoter and manager, Tex Rickard and Kearns, to sign twice with Wills, anyone could look it up. Ironically by having the smaller guarantee, Wills cashed his $50,000 check before Jack got to the bank and used it to buy an apartment building that supported him when the depression hit whereas Dempsey had to come back and work in boxing. Dempsey's much larger check was never made good because whatever money the promoter had lined up, it never came through.

As to TUE 49-0, well I have to admit that he is the best nonfighting fighter of canned nonfights in his hometown where he owned his own drug testing agency, commish, ref, judges, and even his own announcer, Slapsie Maxie Kellerman. He's in his own class of one but hardly merits mention as an all time great fighter. Anytime things got too hot, he'd run off to retirement. Even had a documented mental meltdown resulting in felony convictions and incarcerated in his own cell so as to protect his preciousness from all them scary boogeymen his daddy was always warning him about. Don't recall Archie Moore or Joe Louis running away in the middle of a fight to go squallin' for their daddies, but of course TUE is more extra special than them. The majority on this forum own him and share his effemination of boxing, but hey, ho, it's a new world order with harder women and softer men, and so be it. Kinda funny too like the women bullying men thread, wow, who'd have ever thunk it? Y'all could stop that with a platoon of TUE's 300 lb bodyguards. Just sayin.

Damn man. Chill out. At first I thought you were going to be friendly after reading the first 10 words but no-can-do. You are reading a sentiment in here that doesn't exist.

The Great Marciano, and he was Great, was under no obligation to come out of retirement in 1955/56 to fight Patterson. He would have made a lot of money and he probably would have won, but he was under no obligation to do so and I never said he was. Regarding Dempsey, the race problems during Jack's time as a fighter were severe and complicated and I'm not casting any blame there either.

Calm down, I can see you are a fan of them and so am I.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

None in particular, he fought high level opposition over 5 weight classes for well over a decade. One thing is he never fought a truly top level fighter in their prime, but that isn't his fault.

[asdfjkl]

And the fact he got caught on all kind of masking agents, with masking agents that have no other purpose as masking.

And ofcourse his refuse to fight anyone else ever since, in other words, he was probably a drugscheat from start till end but allways could mask it and at the moment he couldn't any more, he simply stopped boxing.

[Badhusker]

And the fact he got caught on all kind of masking agents, with masking agents that have no other purpose as masking.

And ofcourse his refuse to fight anyone else ever since, in other words, he was probably a drugscheat from start till end but allways could mask it and at the moment he couldn't any more, he simply stopped boxing.

I don't mind anyone's opinion, but outright lies and what I would call statements of slander and defamation like the ones above are over the top. Not surprising considering the poster. A Moderator on this board warned us several months ago about doing this, threatening a ban for those who did. The only thing different was it was little Manny, not Floyd.

[Pureist]

Where there is smoke there is fire husker, the fact he was issued a TUE by a body not authorized to do so, the fact he tried to get it written into the contract that no bodies would have to be notified if a TUE was issued and the fact that the IV was performed at his house and not hospital and it wasn't a medical emergency has definitely tarnished his legacy, if you can't see that your blind

[Kalan]

Mike Tyson wanted no part of of George Foreman.

Mike Tyson destroyed Alex Stewart in the first round... Stewart couldn't handle Tyson's spectacular speed and power... But a year later Stewart beat the living crap out of slow old George Foreman.. Stewart's slow ungainly punches found a home one the immobile Foreman's head and beat George to a grotesque blob.. The decision was a flat out robbery because George was beaten to trash.. Tyson got rid of the super slow Lou Saverese with the first punch Mike threw -- but Mike hated the referee stepping in to stop it.. Mike wanted a proper KO so he kept throwing over the ref.. Mike is definitely a guy for the books.. Foreman was so slow and soft punching that he couldn't even hurt or floor Saverese..

George Foreman cherry picked challengers like Lou Saverese.. Axel Schulz.. and Crawford Grimsley -- who were about equivalent to Floyd Mayweather cherry picking Andre Berto don't you think??? ... Foreman turned down challengers like: Ray Mercer... Oliver McCall... Razor Ruddock... Lennox Lewis... Riddick Bowe... David Tua... and Mike Tyson...

Foreman was so popular with boxing fans he was in the same position Floyd Mayweather is in today. Foreman didn't have to fight tough challengers. He milked his World Heavyweight Title for years fighting cherry picks like Deontay Wilder and Floyd do.

[Kalan]

And another challenger Foreman ducked during that period??? ... Larry Holmes

[ClivePatrickLyons]

Over the last 40 year's I haven't ever seen a fighter like Floyd demanding his opponent's wear certain brand's of glove's what water bottle they can drink from talking shit about the A side and the B side and the worst of the worst hand picking and refusing to fight men that were in their absolute prime avoiding his biggest Challenge's so he gets to keep his O on his record keep away from Mosley/Pacman/Cotto when they were at their peak that's something that Legends usually do not do and then he wants this boxing match with a UFC fighter but he won't touch GGG with a ten foot pole did they ever put it too GGG about a catchweight fight ask him what glove's he'd be willing to wear and what water bottle he would be willing to drink from.And to top it all off he disrespects THE GREATEST [ALI] THE MOST POPULAR FIGHTER PROBABLY OF ALL TIME...Floyd not TBE

[Tony1244]

Mike Tyson wanted no part of of George Foreman.

Mike Tyson destroyed Alex Stewart in the first round... Stewart couldn't handle Tyson's spectacular speed and power... But a year later Stewart beat the living crap out of slow old George Foreman.. Stewart's slow ungainly punches found a home one the immobile Foreman's head and beat George to a grotesque blob.. The decision was a flat out robbery because George was beaten to trash.. Tyson got rid of the super slow Lou Saverese with the first punch Mike threw -- but Mike hated the referee stepping in to stop it.. Mike wanted a proper KO so he kept throwing over the ref.. Mike is definitely a guy for the books.. Foreman was so slow and soft punching that he couldn't even hurt or floor Saverese..

George Foreman cherry picked challengers like Lou Saverese.. Axel Schulz.. and Crawford Grimsley -- who were about equivalent to Floyd Mayweather cherry picking Andre Berto don't you think??? ... Foreman turned down challengers like: Ray Mercer... Oliver McCall... Razor Ruddock... Lennox Lewis... Riddick Bowe... David Tua... and Mike Tyson...

Foreman was so popular with boxing fans he was in the same position Floyd Mayweather is in today. Foreman didn't have to fight tough challengers. He milked his World Heavyweight Title for years fighting cherry picks like Deontay Wilder and Floyd do.

I agree with most of this. I'll add Foreman ducked Tim Witherspoon as well. But Foreman wanted a Tyson fight when Tyson was champion. Perhaps Foreman priced himself out at one point. There are many references that Tyson wanted no part of Foreman. Tyson is a boxing historian and had great respect for Foreman's power. The interesting thing about Foreman-Stewart is that Foreman almost knocked Stewart out early in the fight. I believe GF scored 2 knockdowns in the 2nd round or something like that, but Stewart beat ol' George up pretty badly later in the fight.

Yes, Tyson KOd Stewart in one and GF was very lucky to get a highly disputed decision, but styles make fight. GF easily disposed of Norton and Frazier years earlier and those 2 gave Ali fits. I stand by Tyson being very apprehensive about fighting GF and I think GF would have had a much better chance against Tyson than he had when he fought Holyfield due to styles.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Over the last 40 year's I haven't ever seen a fighter like Floyd demanding his opponent's wear certain brand's of glove's what water bottle they can drink from talking poo about the A side and the B side and the worst of the worst hand picking and refusing to fight men that were in their absolute prime avoiding his biggest Challenge's so he gets to keep his O on his record keep away from Mosley/Pacman/Cotto when they were at their peak that's something that Legends usually do not do and then he wants this boxing match with a UFC fighter but he won't touch GGG with a ten foot pole did they ever put it too GGG about a catchweight fight ask him what glove's he'd be willing to wear and what water bottle he would be willing to drink from.And to top it all off he disrespects THE GREATEST [ALI] THE MOST POPULAR FIGHTER PROBABLY OF ALL TIME...Floyd not TBE

Plenty of fighters have done this. Floyd didn't invent this shite.

[Tony1244]

Over the last 40 year's I haven't ever seen a fighter like Floyd demanding his opponent's wear certain brand's of glove's what water bottle they can drink from talking poo about the A side and the B side and the worst of the worst hand picking and refusing to fight men that were in their absolute prime avoiding his biggest Challenge's so he gets to keep his O on his record keep away from Mosley/Pacman/Cotto when they were at their peak that's something that Legends usually do not do and then he wants this boxing match with a UFC fighter but he won't touch GGG with a ten foot pole did they ever put it too GGG about a catchweight fight ask him what glove's he'd be willing to wear and what water bottle he would be willing to drink from.And to top it all off he disrespects THE GREATEST [ALI] THE MOST POPULAR FIGHTER PROBABLY OF ALL TIME...Floyd not TBE

Plenty of fighters have done this. Floyd didn't invent this shite.

There are plenty of reasons not to like Floyd, spousal abuse not the least among them. But yes Mcdonnell is right, plenty of fighters have done this in the past. SR Leonard thumbless gloves, no 15 rounder, big ring, this type of canvas, this type of gloves, all this just regarding his fight with Hagler! I still think 15 rounders existed then, I may be wrong about that but I remember the length of the bout being an issue.

Foreman ducked plenty of fighters in his 2nd or 3rd comeback, I lost count. Love it or hate it, fighters sometimes win fights outside of the ring, regarding the who, what, where, and how they make the fight.

[Syntax Error]

Over the last 40 year's I haven't ever seen a fighter like Floyd demanding his opponent's wear certain brand's of glove's what water bottle they can drink from talking poo about the A side and the B side and the worst of the worst hand picking and refusing to fight men that were in their absolute prime avoiding his biggest Challenge's so he gets to keep his O on his record keep away from Mosley/Pacman/Cotto when they were at their peak that's something that Legends usually do not do and then he wants this boxing match with a UFC fighter but he won't touch GGG with a ten foot pole did they ever put it too GGG about a catchweight fight ask him what glove's he'd be willing to wear and what water bottle he would be willing to drink from.And to top it all off he disrespects THE GREATEST [ALI] THE MOST POPULAR FIGHTER PROBABLY OF ALL TIME...Floyd not TBE

Plenty of fighters have done this. Floyd didn't invent this shite.

There are plenty of reasons not to like Floyd, spousal abuse not the least among them. But yes Mcdonnell is right, plenty of fighters have done this in the past. SR Leonard thumbless gloves, no 15 rounder, big ring, this type of canvas, this type of gloves, all this just regarding his fight with Hagler! I still think 15 rounders existed then, I may be wrong about that but I remember the length of the bout being an issue.

Foreman ducked plenty of fighters in his 2nd or 3rd comeback, I lost count. Love it or hate it, fighters sometimes win fights outside of the ring, regarding the who, what, where, and how they make the fight.

The 15 round thing re; Leonard v Hagler is not valid.

When Hagler signed to fight Leonard, the WBA & IBF stripped him, leaving Marvellous with the WBC belt.

By 1987, the WBC no longer had 15 round fights, so unless the title was not going to be on the line, the fight could not have been over 15 rounds.

Also, it's not as if Hagler hadn't been fighting 12 rounds; his fight prior to that were scheduled for 12 rounds, even if they did not last that long.

[ClivePatrickLyons]

Over the last 40 year's I haven't ever seen a fighter like Floyd demanding his opponent's wear certain brand's of glove's what water bottle they can drink from talking poo about the A side and the B side and the worst of the worst hand picking and refusing to fight men that were in their absolute prime avoiding his biggest Challenge's so he gets to keep his O on his record keep away from Mosley/Pacman/Cotto when they were at their peak that's something that Legends usually do not do and then he wants this boxing match with a UFC fighter but he won't touch GGG with a ten foot pole did they ever put it too GGG about a catchweight fight ask him what glove's he'd be willing to wear and what water bottle he would be willing to drink from.And to top it all off he disrespects THE GREATEST [ALI] THE MOST POPULAR FIGHTER PROBABLY OF ALL TIME...Floyd not TBE

Plenty of fighters have done this. Floyd didn't invent this shite.

There are plenty of reasons not to like Floyd, spousal abuse not the least among them. But yes Mcdonnell is right, plenty of fighters have done this in the past. SR Leonard thumbless gloves, no 15 rounder, big ring, this type of canvas, this type of gloves, all this just regarding his fight with Hagler! I still think 15 rounders existed then, I may be wrong about that but I remember the length of the bout being an issue.

Foreman ducked plenty of fighters in his 2nd or 3rd comeback, I lost count. Love it or hate it, fighters sometimes win fights outside of the ring, regarding the who, what, where, and how they make the fight.

NOBODY EVER DEMANDED THIS AND THAT ON THE SAME LEVEL AS FLOYD.....SUGAR HAD EYE PROBLEMS FOR FU.K SAKE I'D WANT THUMBLESS GLOVES IN EVERY FIGHT.

[scallum2015]

He waited and fought Cotto, Pacquiao and Mosely after they were past their best. All three of them in their pomp would have had a fair chance against Floyd. He's been well managed.

Lol Mosley wanted no part of young Floyd and Arum didn't feel Cotto could deal with Floyd. I do think The Manny fight shouldve happened earlier but even if it did Wouldn't be much difference. Floyd is too smart, cautious and defensively competent for Manny Pacquiao to have won