Karl Mildenberger-How good was he ?

[Caractacus]

Noted for having been the first southpaw to fight for the heavyweight title (1967).

[Caractacus]

Check this one out,Karl Mildenberger almost looks like Jack Dempsey in this one.
(at least during the latter part of The Manassa Mauler's boxing career)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJyJ8kyvqpY

[Kalan]

Milderberger was a very small heavyweight who weighed 194 for Ali... He was very clumsy, light, hitting and slow. The putrid Oscar Bonavena even outboxed him and beat him on points.. Amos Lincoln came off a very bad KO loss to Jim Fletcher less than 2 months before he fought Mildenberger so that fight wouldn't even be allowed today. In fact you're not supposed to spar for 3 months if you get knocked out.

Jim Fletcher was a 7-5-3 neophyte and not very good. He knocked Lincoln out in 2 rounds, and less than 2 months later it took Mildenberger 6 rounds to get the job done. The Mildenberger fight was in the midst of Lincoln losing 8 of his last 9 fights - 7 by KO. But just who did Lincoln manage to beat in the middle of that horrendous losing streak??? You guessed it - Joey Orbillo. He was sick about losing that one.

[Caractacus]

This thread is about GOOD he was,not how bad you may have thought he was.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Better than Corrie Sanders. This place is a joke. Late

[Kalan]

This thread is about GOOD he was,not how bad you may have thought he was.

Right... about as good as Rudi Lubbers. That would have been a competitive fight, but Lubbers went the distance with Ali. My pick? Lubbers.

As bad as Rudi Lubbers??? ... Well... that's not what the thread is all about.

[Kalan]

Better than Corrie Sanders. This place is a joke. Late

Sanders would have crushed the diminutive MildenBerger in 30 seconds.. He was 6'4" X 230 and a better athlete with 3 X the chin. Mildenberger was 6' X 194, a clumsy boxer and a weak hitter.. Watch his fights with Oscar Bonavena, Leotis Martin, Dick Richardson, Amos Johnson, and Gerhard Zech. I guarantee you wouldn't be impressed. I saw him fight live a few times. You guys didn't.

[ted822]

Better than Corrie Sanders. This place is a joke. Late

Sanders would have crushed the diminutive MildenBerger in 30 seconds.. He was 6'4" X 230 and a better athlete with 3 X the chin. Mildenberger was 6' X 194, a clumsy boxer and a weak hitter.. Watch his fights with Oscar Bonavena, Leotis Martin, Dick Richardson, Amos Johnson, and Gerhard Zech. I guarantee you wouldn't be impressed. I saw him fight live a few times. You guys didn't.

Interesting that you saw him fight live. Also that you don't have much of an opinion of him. I remember seeing a film about Billy Walker,no world beater but a tough guy who Mildenberger battered. Billy said that he looked big,and he was certainly bigger than Billy. He looked it in the film of the fight. Also he looked a decent heavyweight,no world beater but a genuine top 10 man. Dick Richardson beat him but I think would have lost a return. Also didn't Mildenberger draw with Zora Folley. Was it before or after Zoras decline? If before he bdrew with a hell of a boxer.
Not heard of Jim Fletcher in a long time. Only saw him once and he looked a beast in knocking out Brian London. Too big and powerful against a man who himself may have been past it. All questions Id like to see answered,by yourself or others. Interesting topic.

[Ambling Alp II]

Folley was a little past his best when he fought Mildenberger but still had a lot left.
Mildenberger was a good fighter. He moved very well and had good boxing skills.

[The End]

I don't know why but some how I got Chuck Wepner mixed up with "Miltonburger". This thread left me confused.

[Caractacus]

Better than Corrie Sanders. This place is a joke. Late

Dude, he had fought during the golden age of heavyweights and I cant remember anyone here ever posting a thread about him,
just thought I would start up some kind of discussion.
and he did fight 'The Greatest' you know ?

[Caractacus]

Did you ever wanna see film footage of Karl Mildenberger in training ?Well now here's your chance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4A_bRAqFiI

[Kalan]

I remember seeing a film about Billy Walker,no world beater but a tough guy ... Dick Richardson beat him but I think would have lost a return

You don't really box professionally if don't have anything at all going for you, do you??? Walker was hit continuously and stopped so he was no Chuvalo in the toughness department. He was a punching bag though. Richardson couldn't box either but he was a good hitter. He didn't beat Mildenberger he destroyed him. First round, right hand, BOOM!!! THUD!!! OVER!!! ... Karl fell dead. You could have counted 1000 over the poor chinless swinger ... Just for comparison Ingo Johansson crushed Richardson with a right hander.

[yancey]

Check this one out,Karl Mildenberger almost looks like Jack Dempsey in this one.
(at least during the latter part of The Manassa Mauler's boxing career)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJyJ8kyvqpY

Good Lord, Mildenberger was even worse than I remember.

What does it say when Mildenberger was probably Ali's most accomplished 1966 challenger?

[Kalan]

That's true... Karl sucked big time.

[Caractacus]

Karl Mildenberger vrs Billy Walker (1967)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxD7PZPV99U

[ted822]

Folley was a little past his best when he fought Mildenberger but still had a lot left.
Mildenberger was a good fighter. He moved very well and had good boxing skills.

Thats what I thought actually. Did better than most against Ali.

[ted822]

I remember seeing a film about Billy Walker,no world beater but a tough guy ... Dick Richardson beat him but I think would have lost a return

You don't really box professionally if don't have anything at all going for you, do you??? Walker was hit continuously and stopped so he was no Chuvalo in the toughness department. He was a punching bag though. Richardson couldn't box either but he was a good hitter. He didn't beat Mildenberger he destroyed him. First round, right hand, BOOM!!! THUD!!! OVER!!! ... Karl fell dead. You could have counted 1000 over the poor chinless swinger ... Just for comparison Ingo Johansson crushed Richardson with a right hander.

I saw Richardson/Johannson live on TV. At that time no disgrace to be knocked out by him. And Ive said it before I think Mildenberger would have beat Dick if they fought again. Think about 2 of Lennox Lewis defeats at a higher level. And you're comparing Walker as a tough guy with probably the toughest heavyweight ever. His defeats were to men who were good fighters at the time. And he could punch and improved as he went along. These were almost all guys who would be cruisers today,and Walker would have got a lot further along if he had been. Mildenberger too if he wasn't that bit too big.

[ted822]

I remember seeing a film about Billy Walker,no world beater but a tough guy ... Dick Richardson beat him but I think would have lost a return

You don't really box professionally if don't have anything at all going for you, do you??? Walker was hit continuously and stopped so he was no Chuvalo in the toughness department. He was a punching bag though. Richardson couldn't box either but he was a good hitter. He didn't beat Mildenberger he destroyed him. First round, right hand, BOOM!!! THUD!!! OVER!!! ... Karl fell dead. You could have counted 1000 over the poor chinless swinger ... Just for comparison Ingo Johansson crushed Richardson with a right hander.

Also Johannson boxed quite carefully against Dick. Didn't use the right hand much till the knockout. But it was a boom moment. iS there a possibility that Karl was still learning when he got KOd? He hadn't the amateur or pro background that Ingo had at the point he fought Dick. I think he'd won and lost to Patterson,beat Eddie Machen,Cooper,Erskine etc.

[Kalan]

I remember seeing a film about Billy Walker,no world beater but a tough guy ... Dick Richardson beat him but I think would have lost a return

You don't really box professionally if don't have anything at all going for you, do you??? Walker was hit continuously and stopped so he was no Chuvalo in the toughness department. He was a punching bag though. Richardson couldn't box either but he was a good hitter. He didn't beat Mildenberger he destroyed him. First round, right hand, BOOM!!! THUD!!! OVER!!! ... Karl fell dead. You could have counted 1000 over the poor chinless swinger ... Just for comparison Ingo Johansson crushed Richardson with a right hander.

Also Johannson boxed quite carefully against Dick. Didn't use the right hand much till the knockout. But it was a boom moment. iS there a possibility that Karl was still learning when he got KOd? He hadn't the amateur or pro background that Ingo had at the point he fought Dick. I think he'd won and lost to Patterson,beat Eddie Machen,Cooper,Erskine etc.

I go by his record versus contenders. He had draws with Folley, a light heavyweight named McBride who was 30-15, and Amos Johnson, a very small heavyweight that can be considered losses.. He lost to contenders Leotis Martin, Henry Cooper, Dick Richardson, and Oscar Bonavena. He as knocked down 3 times by Dave Bailey, a not a real good fighter who was 13-13-3. The fight was in Germany and they gave it to Mildenberger. Boxrec says Karl was knocked down twice, but according to newspaper reports and Ring Magazine he was knocked down 3 times. To the extent that anyone who wins a European Title and has a winning record can be called good, you can say he was good. He certainly wasn't a top notch boxer.

[Ambling Alp II]

I don't think anyone is saying that Mildenberger was a legend or anything like that. He had his ups and downs.
During his era the heavyweight division with decent fighters who were roughly even. He beat several of them; Jefferson Davis, Billy Walker, Joe Erksine, Billy Daniels etc.

[Caractacus]

Or as Sonny Liston called him "Karl Miltonberle".

(you just may have to be a babyboomer to get the reference)

[Caractacus]

B-INGO !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MecEKGw6LTc

[Tony1244]

Karl didn't suck and Karl wasn't great.

He was simply a good solid contender at his best.

[Caractacus]

I would say despite being somewhat "Slow and Clumsey" as the one poster suggest.
He had good fundamentals.
He was one of the better heavyweight body punchers IMOP.
What he lacked was maybe a fire in his belly and maybe needed a little more charisma.