No it's fine , he didn't even use it as much of an excuse and if it was a problem Froch would have .Cannibal wrote:Injured bicep? The Magee fight in danger of being put back now?
Froch v Westerman
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Manos de Oro
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 1630
- Joined: 21 Sep 2004, 12:10
Got to admit my first ever impression of Froch was that he was a bit of a knob. Then I took to his spiel for a while as he began to utter many truths about certain fighters, and it looked like he might - just might - back up his talk. Now he's back to being a knob again.
Regards his ability - agree fully with nickd and states. Disagree about McCracken - which I know isn't going to be a popular view on here. I think his advice is delivered well, and he must be great if you're working the bags in the gym, but rhyming off combinations is good if you're fighting journeymen, not if your opponent has come with designs to win.
And as such it's not so surprising to log on today and see Hurricane Hank's post - Westerman looked like he came to counter punch and already knew all the gaps he was going to exploit. Froch's defence, or should I say attitude, was absolutely deplorable for a pro fighter at his supposed level. Cannot believe McCracken and he addressed it the way they did. See how much fun he's having in a few years time when the wear & tear sets in, and he starts having trouble pushing his words out in the post interview. BELIEVE. IT CAN HAPPEN. And it would be a bit more irritating than a bicep niggle yes?
No doubt his sort of behaviour impresses the Hennesey brand's market of students, ex-students, and, yes, over-grown students, however my guess is they leave in droves should Carl get blown out in two by the likes of Lacy, or stopped in the middle rounds by Kessler or Calzaghe. If Magee's chin holds up and he outpoints him (which I gotta admit after last night I'm quietly hoping for), it's not too bad. I think he can survive that.
Still, Mick could be seen with his head in his hands at ringside as The Cobra's head was being rattled back and forth, which is understandable, coz there are worrying times ahead.
And, by the by, is that the first time his gobby bird has ever been silenced?
Regards his ability - agree fully with nickd and states. Disagree about McCracken - which I know isn't going to be a popular view on here. I think his advice is delivered well, and he must be great if you're working the bags in the gym, but rhyming off combinations is good if you're fighting journeymen, not if your opponent has come with designs to win.
And as such it's not so surprising to log on today and see Hurricane Hank's post - Westerman looked like he came to counter punch and already knew all the gaps he was going to exploit. Froch's defence, or should I say attitude, was absolutely deplorable for a pro fighter at his supposed level. Cannot believe McCracken and he addressed it the way they did. See how much fun he's having in a few years time when the wear & tear sets in, and he starts having trouble pushing his words out in the post interview. BELIEVE. IT CAN HAPPEN. And it would be a bit more irritating than a bicep niggle yes?
No doubt his sort of behaviour impresses the Hennesey brand's market of students, ex-students, and, yes, over-grown students, however my guess is they leave in droves should Carl get blown out in two by the likes of Lacy, or stopped in the middle rounds by Kessler or Calzaghe. If Magee's chin holds up and he outpoints him (which I gotta admit after last night I'm quietly hoping for), it's not too bad. I think he can survive that.
Still, Mick could be seen with his head in his hands at ringside as The Cobra's head was being rattled back and forth, which is understandable, coz there are worrying times ahead.
And, by the by, is that the first time his gobby bird has ever been silenced?
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Manos de Oro
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 1630
- Joined: 21 Sep 2004, 12:10
On the undercard action:
Darren Barker looked the best fighter, p4p, of the night, in my opinion. Not sure how his chin will hold up as he (inevitably) moves up, but he looks to have loads of skills and a decent fanbase, so definitely a prospect to watch.
Good also to see Thaxton in action. I'd like him to get more TV work - he's such a character and always entertaining. Can easily see how he's become a fan favourite in Norwich. Respect also to Alan Temple for hanging in there. He was starting to get marked up but kept fighting, and was really doing well with his boxing at some points.
Steve Collins was probably right in saying the Spartacus fight was FOTN. Wonder how good Ben Driss would be if he trained properly. Had solid power and a solid defence. It looked like a bit of a hometowner for me, which is not necessarily to criticize Ian John Lewis - one of the best (and let's face it, they all do it) - but I also think when you take into account the desire of Spartacus, then it's hard to moan about the decision.
Final notes: Nicky Piper's pun was better than Paul Dempsey's (which isn't saying much :P
), and also bad luck for Dave Stewart...
Darren Barker looked the best fighter, p4p, of the night, in my opinion. Not sure how his chin will hold up as he (inevitably) moves up, but he looks to have loads of skills and a decent fanbase, so definitely a prospect to watch.
Good also to see Thaxton in action. I'd like him to get more TV work - he's such a character and always entertaining. Can easily see how he's become a fan favourite in Norwich. Respect also to Alan Temple for hanging in there. He was starting to get marked up but kept fighting, and was really doing well with his boxing at some points.
Steve Collins was probably right in saying the Spartacus fight was FOTN. Wonder how good Ben Driss would be if he trained properly. Had solid power and a solid defence. It looked like a bit of a hometowner for me, which is not necessarily to criticize Ian John Lewis - one of the best (and let's face it, they all do it) - but I also think when you take into account the desire of Spartacus, then it's hard to moan about the decision.
Final notes: Nicky Piper's pun was better than Paul Dempsey's (which isn't saying much :P
), and also bad luck for Dave Stewart...Yes, it wasn't so much "injured" as "sore". He just said he caught it on Westerman's elbow or something. No question of it having a baring on the Magee fight.BigEars wrote:No it's fine , he didn't even use it as much of an excuse and if it was a problem Froch would have .Cannibal wrote:Injured bicep? The Magee fight in danger of being put back now?
I agree I've generally always been very impressed with McCrackens work as a trainer and the advice he gives out in the corner always seems very good and his fighters are always in good shape to. I've said before that I think Robert is one of the Uk's most promising trainers in the UK and I still believe that (from what I've seen anyway).states wrote:Is it just me who feels sorry for McCracken, by the way? His advice is bang on the money. Sadly, none of his fighters seem prepared to listen to him. Froch and Eastman are far to happy to ignore him, they seem convinced that they know best. You'd think results would persuade them otherwise.....
It just seems that his two biggest fighters in Froch and Eastman are either too stobborn, strong minded or full of self belief to listen to him come fight time. I may well be very wrong on this but this is the impression I have got over the last few years.
As for Frochs performance last night? Very poor, he was just lucky he wasn't in there with a real banger and if he continues to take shots to the head like that he may become and old fighter very quickly.
Without repeating what others have already said he really needs to tighten up his defence in every fight otherwise he WILL sooner rather than later get beaten.
Froch was worse than even I thought he was..
He is too far from the likes of Calzaghe, Kessler and Lacy to even suggest putting him in with them, they would KO him within 4rnds..Lacy probably within the 1st.
Adamu was the first to really highlight how Froch will get beaten, Westerman has only confirmed it without doubt.
Nicky Piper was spot on again lastnight, Westerman was a small lt-heavy with at best average punch power, Froch looked a division bigger than him, so how will Froch cope against a real world class super-middle who can punch...he will get KO`ed.
And the worrying part for the people around Froch is that in the interview after he seemed to think he did fine, apart from getting caught a bit in the first 3rnds....bollox he was getting caught by the same shots through-out, its just Westerman was very very tired later on...its not a case of him being big-headed but pig-headed.
Once again it shows these protected fighters don`t benefit from real matches early on in their career...he is 28yrs old...the bad habits are there to stay now.
On a different theme, Sky Sports have the best by far commentry team. Piper, Nelson McCrory etc, people who know their stuff and are willing to say it aloud....ITV should take note
He is too far from the likes of Calzaghe, Kessler and Lacy to even suggest putting him in with them, they would KO him within 4rnds..Lacy probably within the 1st.
Adamu was the first to really highlight how Froch will get beaten, Westerman has only confirmed it without doubt.
Nicky Piper was spot on again lastnight, Westerman was a small lt-heavy with at best average punch power, Froch looked a division bigger than him, so how will Froch cope against a real world class super-middle who can punch...he will get KO`ed.
And the worrying part for the people around Froch is that in the interview after he seemed to think he did fine, apart from getting caught a bit in the first 3rnds....bollox he was getting caught by the same shots through-out, its just Westerman was very very tired later on...its not a case of him being big-headed but pig-headed.
Once again it shows these protected fighters don`t benefit from real matches early on in their career...he is 28yrs old...the bad habits are there to stay now.
On a different theme, Sky Sports have the best by far commentry team. Piper, Nelson McCrory etc, people who know their stuff and are willing to say it aloud....ITV should take note
Either that our he just didn't want to admit to the media (or himself?) that he had put on a very poor performance.tonyevs wrote:And the worrying part for the people around Froch is that in the interview after he seemed to think he did fine,
But, if he truely believes he fought ok than the guy is in trouble.
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WildWaylon
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 3223
- Joined: 02 Nov 2005, 13:35
I think everyone is agreed it was a very poor showing from Froch - I just laugh when hear him talk about fighting Calzaghe or Lacy - He would learn from them the first lessons in boxing, keep your hands up and defend yourself at all times - He would be slaughtered he has no defence, and he may have a good chin but when its been hit a few times from different angles he will go down - If he did fight Joe the ref would have to dive in to save him - Its silly talk Froch isnt going much further, Magee will prove too much for him and thankfully we wont see or even worse hear much from him after his fight, Mar 31st, with Brian Magee - Magee just needs to keep his defence tight otherwise Froch could land a big bomb - Froch does have a big punch, no doubting that and Magee knows it - Magee isnt to my mind good enough for the top level but he is too good for the over confident Froch and this will I think be proven
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Achybreaky
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 443
- Joined: 15 Jun 2005, 17:54
Were are all the people that said froch were gonna walk through magee? One thing i found particularly interesting about last night was how respectful magee was about froch all the way through the fight when sky cut to him whereas froch doesnt seem to have a good word to say about anybody except himself.
Chuckling now about his taped comments before the fight about being the best british super middleweight around.
Magee will have to be very confident about the fight now after that showing by froch.
Chuckling now about his taped comments before the fight about being the best british super middleweight around.
Magee will have to be very confident about the fight now after that showing by froch.
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DE-LA-HOYA
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 60
- Joined: 08 Nov 2005, 21:37
carl is living in cloud coco land hes just an average super mid magee will paste him he never in the top 10 hes bad no defence hes said hes gonnie knock down magee with every right hand he couldnt knock down westerman the ref had 2 stop it hes a mug let him fight robbin reid then lucaine bute then have a go at the tope 5 hes a complete mug
Use these . and also these ,DE-LA-HOYA wrote:carl is living in cloud coco land hes just an average super mid magee will paste him he never in the top 10 hes bad no defence hes said hes gonnie knock down magee with every right hand he couldnt knock down westerman the ref had 2 stop it hes a mug let him fight robbin reid then lucaine bute then have a go at the tope 5 hes a complete mug
They are your friend. For a minute there I thought there was a new computer games character called super mid magee.
[quote="achybreaky"]Were are all the people that said froch were gonna walk through magee? quote]
I`m one of them.
I still don`t rate magee that highly, and still believe Froch will win because of his punch..and magee`s lack of it
But magee was real class lastnight and I certainly think if he keeps his head he can steal it on points.
But how Magee appeared last night you could not help but think he knew all about Froch and didn`t really want us to know.....he really looks like he`s looking forward to it...I hope he can prove me wrong...and score the stoppage
I`m one of them.
I still don`t rate magee that highly, and still believe Froch will win because of his punch..and magee`s lack of it
But magee was real class lastnight and I certainly think if he keeps his head he can steal it on points.
But how Magee appeared last night you could not help but think he knew all about Froch and didn`t really want us to know.....he really looks like he`s looking forward to it...I hope he can prove me wrong...and score the stoppage
Unless Froch changes his attitude I think the best thing that can happen to him is that he gets beaten by Magee, as that may put some sense into him... but if he beats Magee still as I think he will Froch will carry on until he meets a world class puncher and he will end up koed...
I think Mccracken is too much his fighters friend in there, he should have been reading the riot act to Froch, if the fighters arnet listening to Mccracken during the fights then I doubt they are listening to him much during training either...
I think Mccracken is too much his fighters friend in there, he should have been reading the riot act to Froch, if the fighters arnet listening to Mccracken during the fights then I doubt they are listening to him much during training either...
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Twinkle Toes
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 3340
- Joined: 22 Sep 2003, 08:38
Always thought Froch has been way overatted, especially by the lunatics who said he was the worlds greatest prospect - They know who they are.
I've always found Froch very frustrating to watch, because he does have ability but he doesn't listen to his corner, and he is more than happy to stand there and get tagged repeatedly.
The flaws where there for all to see when he thought Adamu, and he hasnt improved at all since then.
He'll fall short when he faces a banger or someone with similar abilty to himself, which isn't too far away in my view.
I've always found Froch very frustrating to watch, because he does have ability but he doesn't listen to his corner, and he is more than happy to stand there and get tagged repeatedly.
The flaws where there for all to see when he thought Adamu, and he hasnt improved at all since then.
He'll fall short when he faces a banger or someone with similar abilty to himself, which isn't too far away in my view.
Twinkle Toes wrote:Always thought Froch has been way overatted, especially by the lunatics who said he was the worlds greatest prospect - They know who they are.
I've always found Froch very frustrating to watch, because he does have ability but he doesn't listen to his corner, and he is more than happy to stand there and get tagged repeatedly.
The flaws where there for all to see when he thought Adamu, and he hasnt improved at all since then.
He'll fall short when he faces a banger or someone with similar abilty to himself, which isn't too far away in my view.
Spot on. It'll be exciting though, because his power is good enough to swing a fight even if he's taking some shots.
I don't think you can call McCraken a good coach if his boxers do not listen to him. THATS HIS JOB! Look at how Manny would shout and scream at Lewis and he would sit there and nod.
As for Froch I think he has the ability and power to be very good but he needs a coach who is the boss. Or he needs to get KOed and learn the lesson like many better boxers have done in the past.
Calling out Calzage and the like is stupid because he would get beat. As someone pointed out he has a good chin so he can take shotsbut all that is doing is shortening his boxing career. Look at Michael Brodie. He could take a punch and was in so many wars but eventually it caught up with him.
Froch is very arrogant but thats ok for boxers but theres a way to do it and he doesn't know it yet. I would like him to do well because his British but he doesn't have the right PR to make him popular with the public and to a certain extent you need that. I must say the sooner he lans on his arse the sooner he will become a better boxer.
As for Froch I think he has the ability and power to be very good but he needs a coach who is the boss. Or he needs to get KOed and learn the lesson like many better boxers have done in the past.
Calling out Calzage and the like is stupid because he would get beat. As someone pointed out he has a good chin so he can take shotsbut all that is doing is shortening his boxing career. Look at Michael Brodie. He could take a punch and was in so many wars but eventually it caught up with him.
Froch is very arrogant but thats ok for boxers but theres a way to do it and he doesn't know it yet. I would like him to do well because his British but he doesn't have the right PR to make him popular with the public and to a certain extent you need that. I must say the sooner he lans on his arse the sooner he will become a better boxer.
Its niether brave, nor foolish. I've been saying it all along, Froch is the most over rated hype job this country has had, perhaps after seeing Waterman bash him around the ring you you, and many others, may want to re-evalute your opinions of him!Loynesy wrote:Ali
Can't work out if that is a brave or foolish pick. I certainly don't think Froch is as good as he thinks he is and I wish he would keep his right up a little more but I think he has got far far too much against Magee who is a little one dimensional. Let's see next month....
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jamesmcdonnell
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 45231
- Joined: 12 Nov 2003, 06:11
Well, great, I missed this sodding fight, completely forgot about it. Sounds like Froch was getting a real shoeing.
Well, as most people here, even those who rate Froch a little, such as myself, have always said, at some point he is going to be made to pay for such a lack of orthodox defence. The fact is was Westerman that made him pay is a concern, but perhaps this will wake ?Froch up to himself, but somehow I doubt it.
I tend to think Froch had a bit of a poor night, but have to admit to a bit of doubt as to whether Magee might not exploit those holes in his defence. Magee's punch resistance is questionable though, and Westerman was a natural light heavyweight.
I'm going to stick by my guns, as I think a better version of froch will turn up on the night, and I think his best will be too good for Magee.
Well, as most people here, even those who rate Froch a little, such as myself, have always said, at some point he is going to be made to pay for such a lack of orthodox defence. The fact is was Westerman that made him pay is a concern, but perhaps this will wake ?Froch up to himself, but somehow I doubt it.
I tend to think Froch had a bit of a poor night, but have to admit to a bit of doubt as to whether Magee might not exploit those holes in his defence. Magee's punch resistance is questionable though, and Westerman was a natural light heavyweight.
I'm going to stick by my guns, as I think a better version of froch will turn up on the night, and I think his best will be too good for Magee.
First thing that strikes about all the posts here is I can't see ONE positive comment (sorry if I missed it) about Froch's ability to hold a punch. "Can't take a punch" etc is usually a favourite label posters like to slap on boxers as soon they show the slightest vulnerability.
Well rightly or wrongly (and I too go for wrongly) Carl withstood some hard shots several times and came through them with payback! The sign of a tough competitor who will take some beating.
His defence in the early going was poor, no question about it. He was casual, but he simply knew he had the beating of Westerman and would grind him down sooner or later and Froch proved this.
Of course if he takes the same casual/arrogant attitude with him as he moves up he will probably pay the price. He won't be the first or the last to do this.
When everyone has stopped slagging the guy and looking for every possible fault in him whilst ignoring the positives that are also visible, it was actually a reasonable enough fight for the fans. It certainly wasn't devoid of highlights like Brian Magee fights.
Froch got it spot on (IM) in the post fight interview, Magee maybe an infinitely better boxer than Westerman but he won't stand up to the same shots that Carl will catch him with.
Well rightly or wrongly (and I too go for wrongly) Carl withstood some hard shots several times and came through them with payback! The sign of a tough competitor who will take some beating.
His defence in the early going was poor, no question about it. He was casual, but he simply knew he had the beating of Westerman and would grind him down sooner or later and Froch proved this.
Of course if he takes the same casual/arrogant attitude with him as he moves up he will probably pay the price. He won't be the first or the last to do this.
When everyone has stopped slagging the guy and looking for every possible fault in him whilst ignoring the positives that are also visible, it was actually a reasonable enough fight for the fans. It certainly wasn't devoid of highlights like Brian Magee fights.
Froch got it spot on (IM) in the post fight interview, Magee maybe an infinitely better boxer than Westerman but he won't stand up to the same shots that Carl will catch him with.
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Achybreaky
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 443
- Joined: 15 Jun 2005, 17:54
I dont think people are being overly harsh in the critisism froch is receiving here to be honest. Maybe if froch had kept his mouth shut and prepared better then he wouldnt be getting slated for his performance and at this stage of his career when he hasnt fought top quality opponents he can only be as good as his last fight.
It would be nice to see a top quality fighter come out of england that we can all watch and get excited about but if froch thinks he is there already he is mistaken.
Magee for all his shortcomings as a fighter has fought near to the top level and if we are being honest this should be a european title fight, if westerman can connect as often and as cleanly as he did then magee will do it all night and all the flashy single shots in the world are going to be no good to froch. Magee on points for me but i said this could happen even before the westerman fight, i might have a little wager now.
It would be nice to see a top quality fighter come out of england that we can all watch and get excited about but if froch thinks he is there already he is mistaken.
Magee for all his shortcomings as a fighter has fought near to the top level and if we are being honest this should be a european title fight, if westerman can connect as often and as cleanly as he did then magee will do it all night and all the flashy single shots in the world are going to be no good to froch. Magee on points for me but i said this could happen even before the westerman fight, i might have a little wager now.
Personally I find it laughable that McCracken tells Froch to bring his hands up between rounds, like it's some minor adjustment that he's spotted. Froch has NEVER used his gloves as a defence, he obviously feels uncomfortable punching from that position.
Far too late now. I like Froch, he's a good talker, a strong athlete and can fight a bit. But he's going to get TKO'd in world class and there's no much that can be done about it at this stage. Magee could well beat him with the jab as it is.
Far too late now. I like Froch, he's a good talker, a strong athlete and can fight a bit. But he's going to get TKO'd in world class and there's no much that can be done about it at this stage. Magee could well beat him with the jab as it is.