The world will never be right ...

[Cap]

Boxing will outlast MMA. It's a (sweet) science refined over 3000 years while MMA is glorified street fights.

Silly statement. Both sports go back at least as far as the days of ancient Greece, as does wrestling.

Who was the MMA champ in 1950 or 1910? Name the MMA champs in the 1890s. As disorganized as boxing has been over the centuries, you used to be able to trace championships down through the ages. You can't say the same for MMA or whatever it's called.

Unfortunately, that hasn't been the case with boxing for more than 20 years now. The sport is an embarrassment today. Without a real star to promote it, the mass media chose a long time ago to ignore it whenever possible. Society is evolving towards the gentrification of contact sport. Even baseball is frowning on accidental contact. That's part of the reason why sport will, one day soon, be strictly virtual reality. Then individuals will be allowed to have anything happen no matter how violent. Probably encouraged as long as you're strapped into your VR chair at home drugged into semi-consciousness.

[jujigatame]

I'm just saying the "3000 years of refinement" point is kind of silly. MMA has roots as far back as boxing, and in many ways prior to the Queensbury rules boxing had many MMAesque elements. I have a hard time buying the idea that a lack of grappling imparts any greater nobility to a combat sport.

[crow]

the greatest of sports ... the sport that "all other sports aspire to" .

For those watching, yes.

For those participating, ...

[Cap]

Ali had Parkinson's not pugilistic dementia. Michael J Fox was not a boxer.

[crow]

Ali had Parkinson's not pugilistic dementia. Michael J Fox was not a boxer.

Ok.

How about Patterson ?
Scott Ledoux ?
Quarry ?
Ernie Terrell ?
Leon Spinks ?
Jimmy Elis?
Greg Page ?
Frazier and Norton were barely comprehensible when they died.

Ray Robinson ?
Louis ?

Would you like you child to go into boxing ?

Nuff said.

[Cap]

With some there is no doubt they suffered from pugilistic dementia, however when you consider the fact that millions of North Americans now suffer and will suffer from dementia who have never laced up boxing gloves or butted heads on a football field, there is a real likelihood that some you named were pre-destined to end up the way they are/were because of genetics.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I'm just saying the "3000 years of refinement" point is kind of silly. MMA has roots as far back as boxing, and in many ways prior to the Queensbury rules boxing had many MMAesque elements. I have a hard time buying the idea that a lack of grappling imparts any greater nobility to a combat sport.

That is incorrect.

Boxing prior to the broughton rules, in the 1700's - prizefighting (as it was then called) - allowed for holds, throws and chokes.

Boxing in it's current form didn't really start until the queensbury rules in the 1860's.

Mixed martial arts has been around longer than you might think, given that older forms of prizefighting allowed for many more moves than modern boxing. The proponents would have borrowed moves from various fighting arts.

[jamesmcdonnell]

With some there is no doubt they suffered from pugilistic dementia, however when you consider the fact that millions of North Americans now suffer and will suffer from dementia who have never laced up boxing gloves or butted heads on a football field, there is a real likelihood that some you named were pre-destined to end up the way they are/were because of genetics.

There's a lot of evidence to suggest that trauma to the head and brain, causes long term neurological damage of various kinds. Anyone who has spent time around ex prizefighters will tell you that many of them have undiagnosed neurological problems.

[jujigatame]

I'm just saying the "3000 years of refinement" point is kind of silly. MMA has roots as far back as boxing, and in many ways prior to the Queensbury rules boxing had many MMAesque elements. I have a hard time buying the idea that a lack of grappling imparts any greater nobility to a combat sport.

That is incorrect.

Boxing prior to the broughton rules, in the 1700's - prizefighting (as it was then called) - allowed for holds, throws and chokes.

Boxing in it's current form didn't really start until the queensbury rules in the 1860's.

Mixed martial arts has been around longer than you might think, given that older forms of prizefighting allowed for many more moves than modern boxing. The proponents would have borrowed moves from various fighting arts.

I'm a bit confused. You started with "that is incorrect" but then it sounds like you're agreeing with me.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I'm just saying the "3000 years of refinement" point is kind of silly. MMA has roots as far back as boxing, and in many ways prior to the Queensbury rules boxing had many MMAesque elements. I have a hard time buying the idea that a lack of grappling imparts any greater nobility to a combat sport.

That is incorrect.

Boxing prior to the broughton rules, in the 1700's - prizefighting (as it was then called) - allowed for holds, throws and chokes.

Boxing in it's current form didn't really start until the queensbury rules in the 1860's.

Mixed martial arts has been around longer than you might think, given that older forms of prizefighting allowed for many more moves than modern boxing. The proponents would have borrowed moves from various fighting arts.

I'm a bit confused. You started with "that is incorrect" but then it sounds like you're agreeing with me.

Oh sorry, replied to the wrong comment. I am indeed agreeing with you.

[crow]

With some there is no doubt they suffered from pugilistic dementia, however when you consider the fact that millions of North Americans now suffer and will suffer from dementia who have never laced up boxing gloves or butted heads on a football field, there is a real likelihood that some you named were pre-destined to end up the way they are/were because of genetics.

Is there a pre-destined gene for slurred speech ?

EVERY boxing champion (or at least 80%) above 50 is slurring his words, to a varying degree.

[allInmoderationAIM]

I'm tired of people saying this kind of stuff. Boxing will never again be as big as it was back in it's day. The reason being, Boxing hardly any competition for entertainment dollars. There was a handful of TV channels back then, not a million like their is today. The world was a simpler place back then. Those days are never coming back but the sport is still stronger than you think.

Just look what Floyd and Manny brought in for money. They stunk up the joint but it was the biggest fight in terms of dollars ever. You can't say the sport is weak when you can bring in numbers like they did.

yes. It was crossover. Unfortunately that match was a stale. Thus, really did not help the health.
I know well what all boxing is in need of at this point. Gonna take a little bit of time and the right relationships.

[allInmoderationAIM]

With some there is no doubt they suffered from pugilistic dementia, however when you consider the fact that millions of North Americans now suffer and will suffer from dementia who have never laced up boxing gloves or butted heads on a football field, there is a real likelihood that some you named were pre-destined to end up the way they are/were because of genetics.

Is there a pre-destined gene for slurred speech ?

EVERY boxing champion (or at least 80%) above 50 is slurring his words, to a varying degree.

Wow! You sound like Doctors Against Boxing. (Your high high high-high-high % I simply don't at-all believe as fact!)

[allInmoderationAIM]

[quote="funso banjo baby"]

or Lukas brown (or LUCAS BROWNE?)
[/quPlop ote]
Bunch of talk (YACK YACK yack YACK yack yack yack) & no mechanics.

[crow]

With some there is no doubt they suffered from pugilistic dementia, however when you consider the fact that millions of North Americans now suffer and will suffer from dementia who have never laced up boxing gloves or butted heads on a football field, there is a real likelihood that some you named were pre-destined to end up the way they are/were because of genetics.

Is there a pre-destined gene for slurred speech ?

EVERY boxing champion (or at least 80%) above 50 is slurring his words, to a varying degree.

Wow! You sound like Doctors Against Boxing. (Your high high high-high-high % I simply don't at-all believe as fact!)

I'm a realist.

There's an overwhelming fan base who sees boxing as a kind of super hero action cartoon, where physical punishment is inflicted without any consequences on long term health; i'm just in utter disbelief with this attitude.

Brendan Ingle rightly used to say to his fighters that pro boxing simply equals legalized assault, and put major emphasis in defense.

Boxing is the most dramatic entertainment in the world, but it comes at a price for health, and too many people want to keep their heads buried in the sand about that.

Ali brought flamboyance to a sport many saw as morally dubious, but it made it even more brutal and unforgiving, as fighters climbed into the ring often full of spite, "ready to die" and intending to prove a point about race, religion, politics and what not, instead of seeing who was the best at a sport.
(actually, this whole attitude of "ready to die" in boxing started with him)

He was certainly a courageous man; but an even bigger fool, never really understanding or controlling what he was getting into.

Look how he finished his life.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

- This notion that Ali was the first boxer ready to die is just silly modern revisionism by poorly studied fans.

Jack Dempsey had to sign a waiver so his estate could not sue Jess Willard if he died in the ring. Willard in his limited career actually put down two fighters for the final count and was the ultimate juggernaut of his day. If that ain't willing to die nothing is.

The reason boxing was so revered was that at one time both the nobles and dregs could be brought together to witness a fairly officiated fight with rules that allowed men to match their bravery and skills against each other.

The mobs, DKing, and most recently Haymon, various commishes, media sycophants, and TUE 49-0 have made mockery of the sport. A mother hen is braver than TUE and probably pecks harder as well.

[crow]

- This notion that Ali was the first boxer ready to die is just silly modern revisionism by poorly studied fans.

Jack Dempsey had to sign a waiver so his estate could not sue Jess Willard if he died in the ring. Willard in his limited career actually put down two fighters for the final count and was the ultimate juggernaut of his day. If that ain't willing to die nothing is.

Back then, fighters didn't get caught in race, religion, politics, or any other BS; they didn't pretend to fight for anyone else but themselves.

You might point out Jack Johnson, but the guy naturally, instinctively sought controversy; of course, once he became champion, he too refused to face other good black contenders.

[Kalan]

Ali had Parkinson's not pugilistic dementia. Michael J Fox was not a boxer.

Ok.

How about Patterson ?
Scott Ledoux ?
Quarry ?
Ernie Terrell ?
Leon Spinks ?
Jimmy Elis?
Greg Page ?
Frazier and Norton were barely comprehensible when they died.

Ray Robinson ?
Louis ?

Would you like you child to go into boxing ?

Nuff said.

Only if he wanted to... But I would make sure his top 3 priorities were defense, defense, and defense.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Good post. In 1980s in UK we had 3 channels.
Barry Mcguiggan v Pedroza had 18m viewers! 18m !!!
Contrast that with Hatton Mayweather that "smashed uk ppv records" - that had 1.2m viewers

Boxing got caught out not moving with the times when UFC exploded onto scene. Arrogance of those involved maybe didn't see the threat. Fortunately UFC looks like it will peak in it's current format when a fighter becomes bigger than the promoter and can earn more by going solo. Boxing is slowly becoming more savy too, building fights to attract more fans (programmes like face off and 24/7)

Where will they go if they go solo? There's nowhere else to go outside of UFC. Al the other organisations are tiny.

Its when the fighters become bigger than the organisation. Which will happen / is starting to happen.

Mcgreggor already looks to have outgrown the organisation.almost at a stage where they need him more than he needs them. He could make more on his own show selling out Corke Park for example. Just the logistics of it actually happening. Like when boxers like Naz or Hatton left Warren. All the other promoters in UK were tiny in comparison, but they left chasing the pound notes. Who's to say mcgreggor (just as example) doesn't set up 'mcgreggor promotions" and put on fights like de la hoya did. UFC don't pay fantastic money and most fighters on very short contracts.

UFC is market leader, unopposed, but it wouldn't surprise me to see someone chase a bigger slice of the pie

No fighter will ever be bigger than the promotion and they showed McGregor that already. Bellator has deep pockets so there is an alternative to make more money for some guys, but the UFC is the spot to face the best and they're not making the same mistake Boxing did by ignoring live gates and using TV and Casino money to elevate purses to such a ridiculous level that guys don't have to fight anyone to make millions.

[Counter-puncher]

When I look at how UFC have progressed, and most especially how they have avoided the mistakes boxing has made over the years, it makes me weep for the state of boxing.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I won't begrudge fighters for getting theirs but it doesn't make me weep. It makes me DVR Boxing when UFC is on, because their free cards or preliminaries for PPV events decimate any sort of Boxing card. The sport isn't for everyone, but the fact that it's a better product is irrefutable.

[Tomasino]

Boxing will outlast MMA. It's a (sweet) science refined over 3000 years while MMA is glorified street fights.

Silly statement. Both sports go back at least as far as the days of ancient Greece, as does wrestling.

Who was the MMA champ in 1950 or 1910? Name the MMA champs in the 1890s. As disorganized as boxing has been over the centuries, you used to be able to trace championships down through the ages. You can't say the same for MMA or whatever it's called.

Unfortunately, that hasn't been the case with boxing for more than 20 years now. The sport is an embarrassment today. Without a real star to promote it, the mass media chose a long time ago to ignore it whenever possible. Society is evolving towards the gentrification of contact sport. Even baseball is frowning on accidental contact. That's part of the reason why sport will, one day soon, be strictly virtual reality. Then individuals will be allowed to have anything happen no matter how violent. Probably encouraged as long as you're strapped into your VR chair at home drugged into semi-consciousness.

Don't tell me James Figg wasn't a mixed martial artist...read the accounts of the fights before Queensberry and Broughtons Rules. Those guys knew their holds, kicks and throws.

[crow]

The sport isn't for everyone, but the fact that it's a better product is irrefutable.

No it isn't.

There's nothing exciting or spectacular in watching wrestlers like Georges St Pierre, Randy Couture, etc do their ground and pound.

The most popular martial artists are those standing and trading like Fedor, Dos Santos, Anderson Silva, etc...doing actually what boxers do.

It takes tens of years to make a great boxer, but only a few ones to make a martial arts fighter.

[gilgamesh]

I won't begrudge fighters for getting theirs but it doesn't make me weep. It makes me DVR Boxing when UFC is on, because their free cards or preliminaries for PPV events decimate any sort of Boxing card. The sport isn't for everyone, but the fact that it's a better product is irrefutable.

I prefer striking over Hugging and Laying. Too much Hugging and Laying in MMA for my taste.

[Counter-puncher]

I won't begrudge fighters for getting theirs but it doesn't make me weep. It makes me DVR Boxing when UFC is on, because their free cards or preliminaries for PPV events decimate any sort of Boxing card. The sport isn't for everyone, but the fact that it's a better product is irrefutable.

It depresses the shit out of me that everything you say is right. For various reasons I don't have access to the UFC but i do get bellator, and i am pretty sure there are more matchups in bellator that i look forward to in the next couple of months than there are in boxing.