Jaclem wrote:there are those who think marciano was the greatest heavy...thjose who tink he was one of the greatest...and those (like myself) who think he is the most overrated boxer ever.
Those who think he was great make very good arguments for their opinion....toughness...punch....condition...and I admit mine is subjective....as is theirs...and there's no way to really settle the discusion.
But....I don't think the 49-0 is significant at all in judging him. His other characteristics...fine...but as I and others say often boxing is not a statisical sport. What if Rocky had been a street kid and had to start early and fight his way to the top before he caught the eye of Al Weill? What if he had had to stay in the game , well past his prime, because of poor money management...as Louis, Charles, Robinson, Pep and so many others from all weights had to...and therefore have those losses at the end of thier careers?
One reason Marciano's record is pristine is because he was able to quit before that happened, and I am happy for him that he did. but 49 victories and no defeats is a perfect percentage...but a fighter with say..80 wins and 15 losses....may have been just as good a fighter and even better.
"What if Rocky had been a street kid and had to start early and fight his way to the top before he caught the eye of Al Weill?"
But that was exactly what he was! Obviously you don't know anything about Marciano. He was from a huge, extremely poor Italian immigrant family with no money, only making a tiny amount of income off of their father's job at a shoe factory. Marciano started fighting with no manager, no promoter, and no professional training whatsoever. He was matched up extremely hard in his early fights, for instance against Eddie Ross, who was 26-0 with 23 KOs. Marciano had several pro fights before Charlie Goldman took him under his wing, and then had to go longer still before Weill really decided he loved him. Rock ycould never get a pro trainer to help him in his amateur and early pro careers, because all of them thought he was awful, because of his lack of balance and skill, and his starting late. Goldman and Weill didn't take Marciano until he'd come up with an impressive string of early round KOs despite his lack of training equipment, a professional trainer, or a manager, and his being overmatched with the far more experienced Eddie Ross and Bobby Quinn.
AFTER THAT, Marciano fought mostly tomato cans for a while, then moved to contenders and champions. He had a fairly difficult career, but still never lost.
Not that I think Marciano was the greatest. Just that he was one of the greatest.
Terap: Your biases are amazing. Ali didn't quit against Holmes any more than Frazier did against Ali. Ali's cornerman stopped the fight. Why don't you call him the 'treacherous' Dundee?
And Ali 'collapsed off his stool as the round was supposed to start'?? Are you just hoping that no one here has seen the fight so we'll believe you? Ali didn't collapse until well after the 15th round was supposed to have started, and even then, his adrenaline was gone because THE FIGHT WAS OVER. You are a total idiot if you don't realize the effects the adrenaline of the fight would've had on Ali. Anyone who is in the middle of an action packed battle like that will have their heart pumping, and people are always able to do things they can't normally do if they're that pumped up. Saying that Ali would've collapsed had the fight gone on is like saying that because I ran more slowly a moment after the cougar stopped chasing me, the cougar would've caught me if it'd kept coming. Obviously I would've run faster than I normally could, because of my adrenaline. Saying that Ali would've collapsed during the fight because he did after the fight was over and had calmed down is crazy.
Ali was very courageous getting pounded the way he was, but never falling and fighting on until Dundee stopped the fight. Ali never quit. Not once in his career.