why has boxrec changed the names of someThai fighters?

[jamesgoyder]

It's incredibly confusing and makes it very difficult to work out who is who. Kompayak Por Pramook and Palangpol CP Freshmart have both had the names which they actually fight under and are always referred to by replaced with names that no-one ever, ever uses for them.

I don't know who Rangsan Chayanramis, or who Suriyan Satorn is. No-one does because those names are never, ever used.

By all means keep a track of the fighter's birth name but changing their fight names to their birth names was a terrible idea and makes it much more difficult to use boxrec.

[AntonS]

Because Thai boxers & their dodgy agents come managers are known to borrow ring names to suit the occasion.

[Boxing Prospect]

Suriyan, Srisaket, Teerchai, Petchbarngborn and lots of other BIG NAME Thai's have had this treatment. I'd understand the lower level Thai's who "haven't made their name" but those world level guys who in some cases have won world titles with their "fighting names" shouldn't be renamed, it's confusing and doesn't help anyone.

[AntonS]

You'll just have to get used to it.
Who is entitled to be recorded by ring name & who ain't is bordering discrimination.

Thai ring names are nothing short of advertising gyms, sponsors & what not, and that's not what Boxrec is about.

[Boxing Prospect]

You'll just have to get used to it.
Who is entitled to be recorded by ring name & who ain't is bordering discrimination.

Thai ring names are nothing short of advertising gyms, sponsors & what not, and that's not what Boxrec is about.

RE discrimination-So we're going to see Fighting Harada changed as well? Hurricane Futa? Gunboat Smith? Bearcat Wright? Guts Ishimatsu? Tenkai Tsunami?

Maybe, to avoid the advertising, the fighters "first name" should be used? "Srisaket", "Suriyan", "Petchbarngborn", "Teerachai" "Kwanpichit"...

And some consistency also needs to be used, for example Knockout CP Freshmart is still Knockout CP Freshmart but stablemate Palangpol CP Freshmart is now "Rangsan Chayanram"-they were on the same show together this week.

Boxrec might not be about advertising, but surely they aren't about confusion either and fans seeing, for example "Prasitsak Papoem", may be easily confused...especially when he's still referred to by his fighting name by the TV companies, promoters and the such.

[DaveyMac]

I think there is a difference between a nickname like "Gunboat Smith" and a corporate sponsorship. If he was known as Pabst Blue Ribbon Gym maybe it would be different. :)

I don't have much interaction with the foreign boxrec stuff but I do know the editors there are doing what they are doing after tons of discussion and out of a true desire to do what is best and what is most appropriate.

Consistency is more difficult. The editors are all volunteers and so they have to change them one by one, there isn't a magic button that just changes every name they all have to be done by hand individually.

[jamesgoyder]

So are you also going to go back and change Khaosai Galaxys name to Sura Saenkham? Change Yodsanan Sor Nanthachai's name to Peera Pongwan, change Pone Kingpetch's name to Mana Sridokbuab? etc etc etc.

Because if you follow through with what you are suggesting that is what you have to do and you will end up with a list of completely unknown names for Thai boxers. It won't change anything in Thailand either, it's not like they are going to suddenly change the way they use names because of an English language boxing database.

This will achieve nothing except to make boxrex completely incomprehensible as a resource for Thai boxing. It might be a good idea in theory - to try and force all fighters to use their birth names - but in practise all it will do is confuse boxrec users.

I've lived in Asia a long time and you are dealing with a lot of different languages, cultures etc here. Sometimes you just have to respect local customs instead of trying to impose a Western set of values or standards.

[AntonS]

We are not forcing them to use their birth name.They, promoters, TV networks etc can use any name they like. We are simply recording them by birth name, which is consistent with commissions official results....particularly Australia.
End of story.

[jamesgoyder]

so you will be changing Rocky Marciano's name to Rocco Marchegiano as that is his brith name?

[jamesgoyder]

you will also need to change Rocky Graziano to Thomas Rocco Barbella, Muhammad Ali to Cassius Clay, Fighting Harada to Masahiko Harada. I'm sure there are a lot more boxers using nicknames who will need their profiles changing to their birth name under your new system.

[AntonS]

No! They don't change their ring name everytime they change their nappies

[jamesgoyder]

That doesn't make any sense at all.

Fighters like Palangpon, Kompayak, Yodsanan, Khaosai (Galaxy), Knockout, Petch, Manachai, Yodsanan etc have used the same first name throughout their entire fighting career and everyone recognizes those but you want to change all their boxrec profiles to reflect what you believe is on their birth certificates (rendering boxrec completely useless for anyone looking up Thai fighters).

Yet it's fine for Americans to be called Rocky or for Japanese fighters to be called Fighting or whatever even though their birth certificates say something completely different.

How does that work? You can't have one rule for Thai fighters and a completely different rule for everyone else.

[AntonS]

You're wasting your time, so don't go on about it.

[jamesgoyder]

That's not a very mature attitude but I see you are determined to do this so good luck with it.

[sandis]

Maybe, to avoid the advertising, the fighters "first name" should be used? "Srisaket", "Suriyan", "Petchbarngborn", "Teerachai" "Kwanpichit"...

.

All these are not names at all.

[Boxing Prospect]

Maybe, to avoid the advertising, the fighters "first name" should be used? "Srisaket", "Suriyan", "Petchbarngborn", "Teerachai" "Kwanpichit"...

.

All these are not names at all.

What a fighter makes their name AS is their name in the eyes of everyone else from the fans, the Thai media, the ranking bodies, and the general boxing media (and Suriyan is actually Suriyan's real name). I guess was shouldn't call Emanuel Pacquaio "Manny" as it's not his name, Mike Tyson should be Michael Tyson presumably and hundreds of other examples. Will we only accept Thai's who change their name via the Thai equivalent of a Deed Poll?

It's a frankly confusing move by boxrec and one which hell alienate those like myself and James who follow boxing in Thailand.

[John]

We adding the aliases used to the system so a boxer can still be found under that name. since the Thais are not consistent with their names and for the sake of accuracy we need consistency the editors have decided to use the birth name as the main name.

[Sweet P]

This is absolute crap John.

You are changing the names of current World rated fighters and World champions. These are there actual fight names, And its making it very hard for managers etc to know who is who.
You cant tar every legitimate Thai fighter with the same brush as Tassanu's Fighters.

Are we going to change Sugar Ray Robinsbon, Joey Maxim, Maxie Rosembloom, Willie Pep, Mickey Walker ect starting from now??????

[jamesgoyder]

We adding the aliases used to the system so a boxer can still be found under that name. since the Thais are not consistent with their names and for the sake of accuracy we need consistency the editors have decided to use the birth name as the main name.

The Thais ARE consistent with their names. They generally use the first fighting name for their entire career, it's the second name that changes because it's normally either a sponsor or a gym. If you wanted to implement a rule that Thai fighters couldn't change their second name that would be fine with me. I also wouldn't be against a rule that Thai fighters had to use their real surname (assuming you have the surname of course).

However it's very important that they use their normal fighting name for a first name and not their passport name, because otherwise it's very difficult to keep track of who is who. So if you wanted to change Palangpol CP Freshmart to 'Palangpol Chayanram', Wanheng Menayothin to 'Wanheng Moonsuree' etc that would be fine by me.

The only problem you have is that I know Menayothin is a gym in Bangkok and not a real surname because I've lived in Thailand for a decade, but I doubt that many of the boxrec editors do so it's going to be tough for you to implement these rules consistently.

I don't personally see why it's a problem for Thai fighters to use sponsors or gyms as a surname and think by far the easiest thing would be to use the names that they fight under (like Knockout CP Freshmart) and are referred to by everyone else in the industry including The Ring, HBO, BS etc etc.

But if you absolutely feel that you have to change it then just change the surname, don't change the first name. Otherwise you are going to have to change Sugar Ray Robinson to Walker Smith Jr, Pancho Villa to Francisco Guilledo, Rocky Graziano to Thomas Rocco Barbella etc etc and I don't see how that could possibly be of benefit to anyone.

[John]

The Thais's are not consistent, they use different names and they swap names. This is the only solution to the Thai problem which was entirely caused by their systemic corruption.

[jamesgoyder]

The Thais's are not consistent, they use different names and they swap names. This is the only solution to the Thai problem which was entirely caused by their systemic corruption.

I contributed to this debate because I assumed people would want to work together to make boxrec more user friendly but I can see it's more about pursuing personal vendettas so I'm not going to contribute any further.

[John]

The Thais's are not consistent, they use different names and they swap names. This is the only solution to the Thai problem which was entirely caused by their systemic corruption.

I contributed to this debate because I assumed people would want to work together to make boxrec more user friendly but I can see it's more about pursuing personal vendettas so I'm not going to contribute any further.

I honestly have no idea why this is personal, no individuals have been singled out. It is a group decision by the editors affecting another group, Thai boxers. Also how can striving for accurate records be called a vendetta ?

[AntonS]

Maybe I agree with jamesgoyder. Searching by ring name which redirects to birth name is extremely confusing as is toilet paper.
Maybe its manufactures should stamp "this side up" on each sheet?

[Boxing Prospect]

Maybe I agree with jamesgoyder. Searching by ring name which redirects to birth name is extremely confusing as is toilet paper.
Maybe its manufactures should stamp "this side up" on each sheet?

On the basis of SEARCHING that's fine, as a glance at the days results, or the previous opponents things then get confusing.

Where as in the we'd see, for example, former world title challenger Samartlek fighting (as he did last week) we now see Wittawas Basapean...and need to click through to realise it's the guy who took Naoya Inoue 11 rounds.

I can see why it's been done, but it's a decision I don't think anyone who follows boxing in the region will agree with.

[AntonS]

Care to tell who other than Thailand in the region cares?