Bruce Lee vs Ali...

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

Had to resurface again, this time at Ring where a certain presumably Brit proposed the fight yet again.

Lee proponents always had Lee stopping a charging rhino dead with his one inch punch, and of course all Ali ever had to do was show up for a decision granted by fiat, so this was a natural matchup back in the day.

Anyway, this Ring writer too untutored to understand Anoki had 90% of his arsenal neutered by contract, yet still almost managed to kill Ali in his only serious mma foray. Noteworthy how quickly the topic descended into 8th grade misanthropy as soon "it" was slung around to lend support to the favored icon.

And no, I'm not kalan any more than granberry as accused at my box rec debut by two dimensional thinkers who fail to comprehend the other two major dimensions of life and boxing. Lee was an highly advanced martial and film innovator along with substantial physical traits, so in a mma fight, Ali would look like a clown again, but obviously Ali prevails at boxing.

In closing, Wilt never wanted Lee, he wanted the easy money of Ali which was not so forthcoming in those days, so make of it what you will.

[Tomasino]

Great post

[sweetviolenturge]

So, let me get this straight. You're saying that had Bruce Lee been matched up with a 1973 era Muhammad Ali in an MMA contest that he'd have "clowned" Ali?
Wow.
You do, of course, realize that Lee was 5'7" - 5'8" & weighed about 135lbs at his peak? And, that while a terrific, highly innovative martial artist that he never had a single sanctioned full contact bout of any kind? That is, other than some rumored amateur boxing matches in Hong Kong as a youth.
So, therefore, I imagine that you'd favor the UFC's bantamweight champion Dominic Cruz over current heavyweight champion Tyson Fury?
I'm sorry, but I find both notions ludicrous.
We have absolutely no clue how good Lee's chin may have been. But, I do know that outside of the world of celluloid fantasies, that Lee wouldn't have remained upright ( nor, likely, conscious ) after an Ali right hand. And being predominantly a striker, Lee would have gotten hit.
Now, he may have attempted to shoot in & take Ali down, but one thing that almost every Ali opponent had to say about him that they were surprised by/impressed with was his deceptive physical strength in the clinches. So, no way Lee takes down the 6'3" 215lb Ali.

Now, if you want to discuss a much more realistic MMA bout between Lee & a fighter his own size from that era in Roberto Duran, I'm game. But Lee vs Ali? It's just silly.

[foxdog1923]

Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee can be used to describe Bruce Lee as well.

[Kalan]

Lee was not a guy who liked to compete in various sports.. He was a movie actor, entertainer, and showman.. He was a competitive dancer so the competitive spirit was in him, but he didn't seek out top martial arts competitions or develop a won/lost record.. He became a pop culture icon and described himself as a philosopher and poet. He was a bit of a con artist and jive artist who didn't take part in major MMA competitions to which he was sometimes invited. His stunts, such as the 1-inch punch, were strictly showmanship. In 1968 he suffered a ruptured disc in his back which caused him terrible pain the rest of his life... According to medical reports, Lee died at 32 of acute cerebral edema -- caused by a reaction to compounds present in the combination medication Equagesic, which he took for pain.

To produce a Chamberlain vs Ali scenario you wouldn't match Lee with a Heavyweight, but a Flyweight.. And to assure him a win you'd give him great trainers, six months to learn how to box, and put him in with ex-Flyweight champ Pascual Perez at the tail end of his career... Perez was an interesting character. He had 92 professional fights, but most of them came against opponents who never won a single fight.. PP's first 23 fights consisted of punching bags who racked up a grand total of 1 single victory between all of them. Amazingly enough, in his next 2 fights he fought World Flyweight Champion Yoshio Shirai - first fighting him to a draw, and then beating him for the title in a hard fought 15 rounder in Tokyo Japan ... not bad for a guy who faced no previous opposition whatever, and had never fought outside of Argentina before.

In Pascual's 71st fight he fought Rodolfo Trivis, who was making his pro debut. Trivis made for spectacular fights because he swung gamely and uselessly while absorbing endless brutal punishment. Trivis fought Perez 4 times and his entire career consisted of taking severe beatings in 6 mismatches.

[Controversial]

He had 92 professional fights, but most of them came against opponents who never won a single fight.. PP's first 23 fights consisted of punching bags who racked up a grand total of 1 single victory between all of them. Amazingly enough, in his next 2 fights he fought World Flyweight Champion Yoshio Shirai - first fighting him to a draw, and then beating him for the title in a hard fought 15 rounder in Tokyo Japan ... not bad for a guy who faced no previous opposition whatever, and had never fought outside of Argentina before.

In Pascual's 71st fight he fought Rodolfo Trivis, who was making his pro debut. Trivis made for spectacular fights because he swung gamely and uselessly while absorbing endless brutal punishment. Trivis fought Perez 4 times and his entire career consisted of taking severe beatings in 6 mismatches.

Boxrec data isn't complete, at the bottom of every record it says "data may be incomplete/inaccurate". Its more likely that data just isn't available and would explain why most of the top Argentinian fighters of those years had similar sketchy records.

[foxdog1923]

..he didn't seek out top martial arts competitions or develop a won/lost record.. He became a pop culture icon and described himself as a philosopher and poet. He was a bit of a con artist and jive artist who didn't take part in major MMA competitions to which he was sometimes invited.

The UFC honour Bruce Lee and see him as a pioneer of MMA. Lee never believed in one fighting style to rule them all so he set out and tried all different fighting styles in a time where Boxing was the most dominant and recognized way of fighting in most parts of the world.

His private fights and spars are as well documented as Wilts knockout of Clyde but you can find photos of Bruce online. Ive seen pics of him wrestling, boxing as well as kung fu. He founded a style that Im not sure if its still used by some in the UFC today called 'Jeet Kune Do' - way of the intercepting fist.

His style was derived from Wing Chun. Its also well documented that Bruce trained an awful lot. His daughters memories of him are in the backyard fighting. He was a fighter more than anything and thats why the UFC attach themselves with Bruce.

[Kalan]

Lee wasn't a fighter he was a showman... He was a charismatic character, I'll say that, but he never beat a single fighter who had any fame or name.

[foxdog1923]

Lee wasn't a fighter he was a showman... He was a charismatic character, I'll say that, but he never beat a single fighter who had any fame or name.

Well I think we can both agree he was more of a fighter than Wilt was. Look at the UFC, they honour Lee but never Wilt!

[Controversial]

He was a charismatic character, I'll say that, but he never beat a single fighter who had any fame or name.

Oh the irony lol

[keithmoonhangover]

Lee was not a guy who liked to compete in various sports.

What about Wilt? Which other sports did he compete in..... at the top level?

[Counter-puncher]

He was a charismatic character, I'll say that, but he never beat a single fighter who had any fame or name.

Oh the irony lol

[foxdog1923]

He was a charismatic character, I'll say that, but he never beat a single fighter who had any fame or name.

Oh the irony lol

BUAHAHA HAHA nice.

[Tony1244]

3 fabled "fighters" are Bruce Lee, Chuck Norris, and Jack Dempsey.

Lee was an actor. If you notice, REAL MMA matches look nothing like a Kung Fu movie.

Chuck Norris. see above. An actor.

Dempsey symbolized early American 20th century toughness and while he is the only real fighter of the bunch, he was more sizzle than steak. Name his 3 best wins and critique them. Nothing too impressive there.

All 3 may have been tough guys, but the greatness as fighters is merely fable.

[BoxBuzz]

traps being set all around. It's not cricket.

[gp.]

3 fabled "fighters" are Bruce Lee, Chuck Norris, and Jack Dempsey.

Lee was an actor. If you notice, REAL MMA matches look nothing like a Kung Fu movie.

Chuck Norris. see above. An actor.

Dempsey symbolized early American 20th century toughness and while he is the only real fighter of the bunch, he was more sizzle than steak. Name his 3 best wins and critique them. Nothing too impressive there.

All 3 may have been tough guys, but the greatness as fighters is merely fable.

Chuck Norris, to be fair, was a high-level competitor in sport karate before he became an actor.

[man]

these matchups are for the minds of twelve
year olds who try to idealise their heroes into
invincibility. the best in the world at something
as competitive as professional combat sport
will always prevail within the rule set of his own
discipline against pretty much everyone else.

these cross over ideas seem to be inspired by
the converging disciplines within MMA. but
despite top MMA fighters beating say a karate
bleck belt within MMA rules, they probably
lose against the same man in any karate set up.

having said that, the most dangerous man you
could meet in the street is definitely the MMA
guy, cause his art was perfected with the least
amount of rules.

[man]

Chuck Norris, to be fair, was a high-level competitor in sport karate before he became an actor.

from what i know he was middleweight
champion of the world.

[gp.]

Chuck Norris, to be fair, was a high-level competitor in sport karate before he became an actor.

from what i know he was middleweight
champion of the world.

Which is an admirable sporting achievement. I have no idea of the amount of contact permissible in his particular form of karate though.

[Tony1244]

3 fabled "fighters" are Bruce Lee, Chuck Norris, and Jack Dempsey.

Lee was an actor. If you notice, REAL MMA matches look nothing like a Kung Fu movie.

Chuck Norris. see above. An actor.

Dempsey symbolized early American 20th century toughness and while he is the only real fighter of the bunch, he was more sizzle than steak. Name his 3 best wins and critique them. Nothing too impressive there.

All 3 may have been tough guys, but the greatness as fighters is merely fable.

Chuck Norris, to be fair, was a high-level competitor in sport karate before he became an actor.

Dempsey was better in boxing than Norris was in karate. I wasn't trying to say they couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag, just that all 3 are severely overrated by some. I don't think Norris would have been a UFC champion. I could be wrong but I doubt it on this.

[Tony1244]

these matchups are for the minds of twelve
year olds who try to idealise their heroes into
invincibility. the best in the world at something
as competitive as professional combat sport
will always prevail within the rule set of his own
discipline against pretty much everyone else.

these cross over ideas seem to be inspired by
the converging disciplines within MMA. but
despite top MMA fighters beating say a karate
bleck belt within MMA rules, they probably
lose against the same man in any karate set up.

having said that, the most dangerous man you
could meet in the street is definitely the MMA
guy, cause his art was perfected with the least
amount of rules.

Oh come on!
How about Hulk Hogan vs a tiger or Bruce Lee and a bear vs Chuck Norris and a tiger in a mixed tag team match?

Actually I agree 100%.

[Controversial]

3 fabled "fighters" are Bruce Lee, Chuck Norris, and Jack Dempsey.

Lee was an actor. If you notice, REAL MMA matches look nothing like a Kung Fu movie.

Chuck Norris. see above. An actor.

Lee never fought competitively but Norris was an undefeated middleweight karate champion for 6 consecutive years and ended with a record of 183-10-2. He was also the first westerner to be give the rank of 8th Degree Black Belt Grand Master in Tae Kwon Do.

[keithmoonhangover]

Norris was an undefeated middleweight karate champion for 6 consecutive years and ended with a record of 183-10-2. He was also the first westerner to be give the rank of 8th Degree Black Belt Grand Master in Tae Kwon Do.

Yeah and would have beat him at Karate, MMA, Boxing, Ping Pong and Frogger.

[gp.]

3 fabled "fighters" are Bruce Lee, Chuck Norris, and Jack Dempsey.

Lee was an actor. If you notice, REAL MMA matches look nothing like a Kung Fu movie.

Chuck Norris. see above. An actor.

Lee never fought competitively but Norris was an undefeated middleweight karate champion for 6 consecutive years and ended with a record of 183-10-2. He was also the first westerner to be give the rank of 8th Degree Black Belt Grand Master in Tae Kwon Do.

Does anyone know what degree of contact was permissible in Chuck Norris's karate competitions? Not knocking his achievement; but it's very relevant if you are talking about transitioning from sport karate to MMA.

[sweetviolenturge]

gp - Yes, Chuck Norris was incredibly accomplished in sport karate.
And , while his record of 183-10-2 is very impressive, those matches were in tournament style karate, which is basically semi-contact. With it's matches taking place on mats on an open floor, NOT in a ring.
I specified that fact so strongly because the vast majority of people are under the false assumption that Norris was a World Middleweight Champion in Full Contact Karate/Kickboxing. Which he most certainly was not, but still, this falsehood is perpetuated by Hollywood, his fans & yep, by Norris himself.