Heavyweight Rankings

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

- While it a noble endeavor to attempt a top 100 heavy list, average joe has zero perspective, and no understanding that corrie sanders even out of shape whoops most because most on your list couldn't fight high end lefties with fast hands and power.

Frazier won the best fight in history and compiled the best record of the 60s, but had too short a career. Holmes only one belt and sorry 0-5 record against any standing champ who actually won a title bout. Liston awesome talent but spotty record and Bowe prime lasted 1 fight and stripped of every title and congenitally retarded.

Field a pitiable 10-7-2 title record, a record for title losses that can't be broken. Tyson title record much better in spite of having to fight on strong psychotropic sedatives from about 1990 to his retirement. First heavy to unify 4 belts, all by age 21 and youngest heavy champ that can't be broken.

The Ks the most domineering heavy champs in history, so the fact that they emasculated US-UK fans for two decades explains their low ranking.

Valuev whoops 80% on your list and probably the most internationally travelled fighter ever. In short, the OP premise terribly flawed and biased to boot. An ol' widow knitting quilts has more to show in creativity and useful end result, but he gets an A for effort.

Now, if we could only get Big Dummy Bowe to submit his top 100 with the video of him counting with his fingers and toes we'd have Priceless!

[Tomasino]

i can't see how anyone can have tucker ,tubbs and smith above the klitschko's ....

Haters can.., They'll rank your grandmother ahead of the Klitschko's

Steves grandmother once knocked out Wilt Chamberlain with a back handed slap. She rates higher than Vitali for sure.

[Ambling Alp II]

- While it a noble endeavor to attempt a top 100 heavy list, average joe has zero perspective, and no understanding that corrie sanders even out of shape whoops most because most on your list couldn't fight high end lefties with fast hands and power.

Frazier won the best fight in history and compiled the best record of the 60s, but had too short a career. Holmes only one belt and sorry 0-5 record against any standing champ who actually won a title bout. Liston awesome talent but spotty record and Bowe prime lasted 1 fight and stripped of every title and congenitally retarded.

Field a pitiable 10-7-2 title record, a record for title losses that can't be broken. Tyson title record much better in spite of having to fight on strong psychotropic sedatives from about 1990 to his retirement. First heavy to unify 4 belts, all by age 21 and youngest heavy champ that can't be broken.

The Ks the most domineering heavy champs in history, so the fact that they emasculated US-UK fans for two decades explains their low ranking.

Valuev whoops 80% on your list and probably the most internationally travelled fighter ever. In short, the OP premise terribly flawed and biased to boot. An ol' widow knitting quilts has more to show in creativity and useful end result, but he gets an A for effort.

Now, if we could only get Big Dummy Bowe to submit his top 100 with the video of him counting with his fingers and toes we'd have Priceless!

It doesn't matter how old a fighter was when he won the title, how many WBS belts he won, or fights when a guy is over the hill.

What counts is who you beat, losses, and to a lesser extent how competitive the fights were.
Evander Holyfield, Sonny Liston, Joe Frazier, and Larry Holmes all won several fights over people listed here when they were close to their primes. to a lesser extent Bowe did as well.
Corrie Sanders has one such win over a guy who made level 6. Valuev has none. Why? They weren't that good.

[jezzamundo]

i can't see how anyone can have tucker ,tubbs and smith above the klitschko's ....

Ok, I will explain.

Tony Tubbs has beat Greg Page and Smith. He barely lost ot to Tim Witherspoon and Riddick Bowe.

Tony Tucker beat Buster Douglas and Oliver McCall. With an injured hand he gave a prime Mike Tyson a tough fight. When he was past it, he went the distance with Lennox Lewis. (Vitaly Klitschko could only last 6 rounds against an obese Lennox Lewis)

Bonecrusher Smith -Knocked out Witherspoon and Bruno.

To sum it up, Tubbs, Tucker, and smith actually have multiple wins over people that were, you know, good.

Lewis was his career heaviest, yet only 10lb heavier than when he beat Rahman in their rematch, which was the lighest and best shape he'd been in for years and only 7lb heavier than for the Tyson fight, where most considered him to be in good shape. Obese is a huge exaggeration. What's more important was he had been inactive for almost a year and his skills and reflexes appeared to be diminished.

[Kalan]

Ranking most of the Heavyweight Champions and Ike Ibeabuchi, according to this system... I might have missed a few by accident -- there's so many

Level 1: Anthony Joshua... Luis Ortiz... Vitali Klitschko... Lennox Lewis... Ike Ibeabuchi... Wladimir Klitschko... Larry Holmes

Level 2: David Haye... Tyson Fury... Deontay Wilder... Gene Tunney... Jack Johnson... Joe Louis... Evander Holyfield

Level 3: Tim Witherspoon... Jack Dempsey... Mike Tyson... Muhammad Ali... Alexander Povetkin... Sonny Liston

Level 4: Ray Mercer... James J Jeffries... George Foreman... Sultan Ibragimov.... Lamon Brewster... Trevor Berbick

Level 5: Michael Spinks... Max Schmeling... Rocky Marciano... Riddick Bowe... Roy Jones... Greg Page... Buster Douglas

Level 6: Hasim Rahman... Samuel Peter... Max Baer... John Ruiz... Lucas Browne... Ruslan Chagaev... Ken Norton

Level 7: Nicolai Valuev... Shannon Briggs... Ezzard Charles... Charles Martin... Tony Tubbs... Mike Weaver... Joe Frazier

Level 8: Jack Sharkey... Tony Tucker... Herbie Hide... John Tate... Pinklon Thomas... Jimmy Ellis

Level 9: Sergei Liakhovich... Michael Dokes... Floyd Patterson... Bob Fitzsimmons... Joe Walcott... Ingemar Johansson

Level 10: Jimmy Braddock... Primo Carnera... Gerrie Coetzee... . Tommy Burns... Bruce Seldon... Jim Corbett

Level 11: John L Sullivan... Marvin Hart... Tommy Morrison... Jess Willard... Leon Spinks... Michael Bentt

[gilgamesh]

Kalan they could give you a lobotomy and nobody would even be able to tell the difference.

[Kalan]

On the other hand they COULDN'T give you a lobotomy... Because you've already had one you brainless bastard.

[Ambling Alp II]

i can't see how anyone can have tucker ,tubbs and smith above the klitschko's ....

Ok, I will explain.

Tony Tubbs has beat Greg Page and Smith. He barely lost ot to Tim Witherspoon and Riddick Bowe.

Tony Tucker beat Buster Douglas and Oliver McCall. With an injured hand he gave a prime Mike Tyson a tough fight. When he was past it, he went the distance with Lennox Lewis. (Vitaly Klitschko could only last 6 rounds against an obese Lennox Lewis)

Bonecrusher Smith -Knocked out Witherspoon and Bruno.

To sum it up, Tubbs, Tucker, and smith actually have multiple wins over people that were, you know, good.

Lewis was his career heaviest, yet only 10lb heavier than when he beat Rahman in their rematch, which was the lighest and best shape he'd been in for years and only 7lb heavier than for the Tyson fight, where most considered him to be in good shape. Obese is a huge exaggeration. What's more important was he had been inactive for almost a year and his skills and reflexes appeared to be diminished.

He looked pretty solid against Rahman and Tyson. He looked pretty flabby against Klitschko. I don't think it's an exaggeration to call say that someone that weighs a soft 256 is "obese".

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

It doesn't matter how old a fighter was when he won the title, how many WBS belts he won, or fights when a guy is over the hill.

What counts is who you beat, losses, and to a lesser extent how competitive the fights were.
Evander Holyfield, Sonny Liston, Joe Frazier, and Larry Holmes all won several fights over people listed here when they were close to their primes. to a lesser extent Bowe did as well.
Corrie Sanders has one such win over a guy who made level 6. Valuev has none. Why? They weren't that good.

- Well, Alpy, it kinda goes like this:

The 2nd to last mentioned on your list whooped the very first on your list from stem to stern and Ali hardly distinguished himself in the rematch. Your #8 levels Hart and Willard and #9 level Choynski whooped yet another of your #1, and Valuev whooped yet another of your #1, and so on in this admittedly admirably staged reality comedy, congrats.

Boxing rivals soccer for having the most violent, racist, and nationalistic fans and we see plenty of that regarding the careers of three of boxing's more down to earth, upright citizens in Pac, Wlad, and Canelo, so we get you don't like Klitschkos anymore than fruitcake Teddy who loses his wad every Wlad fight in spite of being a boxing "expert."

Match Wlad/Vitali title comp head to head with Ali and Louis comp, and most of their comp beats those little guys who can't compete today. Sure, we had the rare Chris Byrd and ferociously well trained Tyson, but the era of the truly big man has been irrevocably dominating for 20 years now.

Corrie Sanders was blessed as a star in several sports, a sprinter, rugby, Golf, and boxing, something he didn't take as seriously as he could because he was South African, the black sheep of the boxing world, never mind that he, Coetzee, and Brian Mitchell came up hard fighting black Africans in the black townships to great acclaim by the locals. Breaks are hard to come by foreigners much less SA, so Sanders admittedly coasted on the total sum of his natural talents, a much better demonstrative athlete than Ali or most any boxer. Solid, big and strong, he had very unorthodox, quick starting, powerful style from his southpaw stance. When I first got on the internet he was already a legend years before he fought Wlad. Southpaws never gained much traction until the 90s, so now they're almost endemic since the former prejudice against them now works in their favor. Roy Jones had a signed contract from Corrie wasting away in his drawer for a year rather than defend his title against him or Lewis. Lewis wanted no part of him, nor Field, Foreman, ect, ect, so he played a lot of golf to supplement his earnings and chilled, beating contenders like Cooper and former champs like Deleon much easier than Field and Holmes for example. 1-1 title record against the most dominant heavies in history, better than Tubby Lar's pathetic no show 0-5 record against standing heavies. Was heroically brave in death too, taking gunfire to save his daughter and dragging her down to sprawl across her to make it look like both were dead.

At least Wlad and Vitali fought him, and point in fact most every heavy in history would have gone down with that initial unintentional headbutt and straight left that Wlad never recovered from in spite of rising 5x. Had Wlad and Vitali better management and trainers in that early going, they wouldn't have made some of the amateur mistakes they did and would be even more dominant, but they still wrecked Don King. The American heavy scene still hasn't recovered as the Bronze Bambi and Al Hamon have recently shown us. That's just the way it is now forever into the future and you can never put your tubby Humpty Dumpties together again.

Fortunately we had Dempsey, Louis, and Foreman that nobody can take away from we the people of the US of A.

[gilgamesh]

Level 1: Ali....Louis...Holmes
Level 2: Foreman...Tyson...Liston....Jack Johnson...Frazier...Marciano...Dempsey...Lennox Lewis...Holyfield
Level 3: The Klitschkos....Bowe...Gene Tunney...Max Baer...Ken Norton...Floyd Patterson

I'll give it a little more thought and do some more later.

[gilgamesh]

Ranking most of the Heavyweight Champions and Ike Ibeabuchi, according to this system... I might have missed a few by accident -- there's so many

Level 1: Anthony Joshua... Luis Ortiz... Vitali Klitschko... Lennox Lewis... Ike Ibeabuchi... Wladimir Klitschko... Larry Holmes

Level 2: David Haye... Tyson Fury... Deontay Wilder... Gene Tunney... Jack Johnson... Joe Louis... Evander Holyfield

Level 3: Tim Witherspoon... Jack Dempsey... Mike Tyson... Muhammad Ali... Alexander Povetkin... Sonny Liston

Level 4: Ray Mercer... James J Jeffries... George Foreman... Sultan Ibragimov.... Lamon Brewster... Trevor Berbick

Tyson Fury, Luis Ortiz, Anthony Joshua, Ibeabuchi ranked over Ali and Tyson...pure comedy

Foreman on the same level as Brewster and Berbick?

[Kalan]

Damned right... I don't think Jimmy Young would beat those guys... Foreman's best wins were over fat little Frazier and chinny Ken Norton. He was very lucky to beat Moorer, who was an accidental champion... But I do think Foreman was better than those 2 so I ranked him ahead of them.

[gilgamesh]

Damned right... I don't think Jimmy Young would beat those guys... Foreman's best wins were over fat little Frazier and chinny Ken Norton. He was very lucky to beat Moorer, who was an accidental champion... But I do think Foreman was better than those 2 so I ranked him ahead of them.

Frazier and Norton would've beaten the sh*t out of Brewster and Berbick.

[Kalan]

NOPE!!! ... Frazier was WAY too small.. Norton was WAY too chinny..

[Ambling Alp II]

It doesn't matter how old a fighter was when he won the title, how many WBS belts he won, or fights when a guy is over the hill.

What counts is who you beat, losses, and to a lesser extent how competitive the fights were.
Evander Holyfield, Sonny Liston, Joe Frazier, and Larry Holmes all won several fights over people listed here when they were close to their primes. to a lesser extent Bowe did as well.
Corrie Sanders has one such win over a guy who made level 6. Valuev has none. Why? They weren't that good.

- Well, Alpy, it kinda goes like this:

The 2nd to last mentioned on your list whooped the very first on your list from stem to stern and Ali hardly distinguished himself in the rematch. Your #8 levels Hart and Willard and #9 level Choynski whooped yet another of your #1, and Valuev whooped yet another of your #1, and so on in this admittedly admirably staged reality comedy, congrats.

Boxing rivals soccer for having the most violent, racist, and nationalistic fans and we see plenty of that regarding the careers of three of boxing's more down to earth, upright citizens in Pac, Wlad, and Canelo, so we get you don't like Klitschkos anymore than fruitcake Teddy who loses his wad every Wlad fight in spite of being a boxing "expert."

Match Wlad/Vitali title comp head to head with Ali and Louis comp, and most of their comp beats those little guys who can't compete today. Sure, we had the rare Chris Byrd and ferociously well trained Tyson, but the era of the truly big man has been irrevocably dominating for 20 years now.

Corrie Sanders was blessed as a star in several sports, a sprinter, rugby, Golf, and boxing, something he didn't take as seriously as he could because he was South African, the black sheep of the boxing world, never mind that he, Coetzee, and Brian Mitchell came up hard fighting black Africans in the black townships to great acclaim by the locals. Breaks are hard to come by foreigners much less SA, so Sanders admittedly coasted on the total sum of his natural talents, a much better demonstrative athlete than Ali or most any boxer. Solid, big and strong, he had very unorthodox, quick starting, powerful style from his southpaw stance. When I first got on the internet he was already a legend years before he fought Wlad. Southpaws never gained much traction until the 90s, so now they're almost endemic since the former prejudice against them now works in their favor. Roy Jones had a signed contract from Corrie wasting away in his drawer for a year rather than defend his title against him or Lewis. Lewis wanted no part of him, nor Field, Foreman, ect, ect, so he played a lot of golf to supplement his earnings and chilled, beating contenders like Cooper and former champs like Deleon much easier than Field and Holmes for example. 1-1 title record against the most dominant heavies in history, better than Tubby Lar's pathetic no show 0-5 record against standing heavies. Was heroically brave in death too, taking gunfire to save his daughter and dragging her down to sprawl across her to make it look like both were dead.

At least Wlad and Vitali fought him, and point in fact most every heavy in history would have gone down with that initial unintentional headbutt and straight left that Wlad never recovered from in spite of rising 5x. Had Wlad and Vitali better management and trainers in that early going, they wouldn't have made some of the amateur mistakes they did and would be even more dominant, but they still wrecked Don King. The American heavy scene still hasn't recovered as the Bronze Bambi and Al Hamon have recently shown us. That's just the way it is now forever into the future and you can never put your tubby Humpty Dumpties together again.

Fortunately we had Dempsey, Louis, and Foreman that nobody can take away from we the people of the US of A.

Not going to bother with the Corrie Sanders garbage. Please.
Have no idea idea what you are talking about with Bambi.

I look at the stage of a fighters career; something that you might to try. Ali was way past when he fought Spinks, that is why it's not as a big of a positive for Spinks or negative for Ali. Same with Johnson when he lost to Willard. Johnson loss to Hart to some extent hurts his cause; though the decision was hotly disputed. He had not quite reached his prime when he lost to Choynski, though the fight has to count to a certain extent.

You have to weigh the big wins vs the losses/bad performances. you have to take into consideration the stages of fighters career. If you don't then you have do silly things like give Trevor Berbik as much credit for beating Ali as you do Joe Frazier.

The Kltischkos simply don't have much for wins against quality opponent. Wladimir had basically one, and some embarrassing losses. Vitaly had none.

Larry Holmes on the other hand beat Norton, Shavers, Witherspoon, Cooney, Smith. etc.

[BitPlayer]

Ranking most of the Heavyweight Champions and Ike Ibeabuchi, according to this system... I might have missed a few by accident -- there's so many

Level 1: Anthony Joshua... Luis Ortiz... Vitali Klitschko... Lennox Lewis... Ike Ibeabuchi... Wladimir Klitschko... Larry Holmes

Level 2: David Haye... Tyson Fury... Deontay Wilder... Gene Tunney... Jack Johnson... Joe Louis... Evander Holyfield

Level 3: Tim Witherspoon... Jack Dempsey... Mike Tyson... Muhammad Ali... Alexander Povetkin... Sonny Liston

Level 4: Ray Mercer... James J Jeffries... George Foreman... Sultan Ibragimov.... Lamon Brewster... Trevor Berbick

Level 5: Michael Spinks... Max Schmeling... Rocky Marciano... Riddick Bowe... Roy Jones... Greg Page... Buster Douglas

Level 6: Hasim Rahman... Samuel Peter... Max Baer... John Ruiz... Lucas Browne... Ruslan Chagaev... Ken Norton

Level 7: Nicolai Valuev... Shannon Briggs... Ezzard Charles... Charles Martin... Tony Tubbs... Mike Weaver... Joe Frazier

Level 8: Jack Sharkey... Tony Tucker... Herbie Hide... John Tate... Pinklon Thomas... Jimmy Ellis

Level 9: Sergei Liakhovich... Michael Dokes... Floyd Patterson... Bob Fitzsimmons... Joe Walcott... Ingemar Johansson

Level 10: Jimmy Braddock... Primo Carnera... Gerrie Coetzee... . Tommy Burns... Bruce Seldon... Jim Corbett

Level 11: John L Sullivan... Marvin Hart... Tommy Morrison... Jess Willard... Leon Spinks... Michael Bentt

This is flat out ridiculous. Charles Martin, and Primo Carnera above Sullivan, Joe Louis, and Ali bellow Joshua and Ortiz, Povetkin above Jeffries.

[Kalan]

Ranking most of the Heavyweight Champions and Ike Ibeabuchi, according to this system... I might have missed a few by accident -- there's so many

Level 1: Anthony Joshua... Luis Ortiz... Vitali Klitschko... Lennox Lewis... Ike Ibeabuchi... Wladimir Klitschko... Larry Holmes

Level 2: David Haye... Tyson Fury... Deontay Wilder... Gene Tunney... Jack Johnson... Joe Louis... Evander Holyfield

Level 3: Tim Witherspoon... Jack Dempsey... Mike Tyson... Muhammad Ali... Alexander Povetkin... Sonny Liston

Level 4: Ray Mercer... James J Jeffries... George Foreman... Sultan Ibragimov.... Lamon Brewster... Trevor Berbick

Level 5: Michael Spinks... Max Schmeling... Rocky Marciano... Riddick Bowe... Roy Jones... Greg Page... Buster Douglas

Level 6: Hasim Rahman... Samuel Peter... Max Baer... John Ruiz... Lucas Browne... Ruslan Chagaev... Ken Norton

Level 7: Nicolai Valuev... Shannon Briggs... Ezzard Charles... Charles Martin... Tony Tubbs... Mike Weaver... Joe Frazier

Level 8: Jack Sharkey... Tony Tucker... Herbie Hide... John Tate... Pinklon Thomas... Jimmy Ellis

Level 9: Sergei Liakhovich... Michael Dokes... Floyd Patterson... Bob Fitzsimmons... Joe Walcott... Ingemar Johansson

Level 10: Jimmy Braddock... Primo Carnera... Gerrie Coetzee... . Tommy Burns... Bruce Seldon... Jim Corbett

Level 11: John L Sullivan... Marvin Hart... Tommy Morrison... Jess Willard... Leon Spinks... Michael Bentt

This is flat out ridiculous. Charles Martin, and Primo Carnera above Sullivan, Joe Louis, and Ali bellow Joshua and Ortiz, Povetkin above Jeffries.

Damned right... Sullivan's record under Marquess of Queensberry Rules was 1 horrible showing where he got beaten to trash by a 178-pound guy who boxed the living bejabbers out of him... He was good at bare knuckle fighting, but not Boxing... Povetkin is a damned good Heavyweight who beat better Heavyweights than Jeffries did. He's also an Olympic Gold Medal winner ... Jeffries had no amateur record to speak of and only 19 pro wins... He took 6 years off at an age when Povetkin was fighting all the way... Ortiz and Joshua were never beaten by huge underdogs...which happened to Louis and Ali... They're better defensively and are slicker and smarter boxers -- plus they're a lot bigger and stronger and undefeated. They're both devastating punchers as Louis was -- but they box a lot better and don't get countered as easily as Louis did vs Schmeling and Conn.

[gp.]

Ranking most of the Heavyweight Champions and Ike Ibeabuchi, according to this system... I might have missed a few by accident -- there's so many

Level 1: Anthony Joshua... Luis Ortiz... Vitali Klitschko... Lennox Lewis... Ike Ibeabuchi... Wladimir Klitschko... Larry Holmes

Level 2: David Haye... Tyson Fury... Deontay Wilder... Gene Tunney... Jack Johnson... Joe Louis... Evander Holyfield

Level 3: Tim Witherspoon... Jack Dempsey... Mike Tyson... Muhammad Ali... Alexander Povetkin... Sonny Liston

Level 4: Ray Mercer... James J Jeffries... George Foreman... Sultan Ibragimov.... Lamon Brewster... Trevor Berbick

Tyson Fury, Luis Ortiz, Anthony Joshua, Ibeabuchi ranked over Ali and Tyson...pure comedy

Foreman on the same level as Brewster and Berbick?

Did you miss Joe Frazier on the same level as Charles Martin? I would have had to have a sit down if anyone else had posted this.

Charles Martin must be one hell of a swimmer.

[Kalan]

Ranking most of the Heavyweight Champions and Ike Ibeabuchi, according to this system... I might have missed a few by accident -- there's so many

Level 1: Anthony Joshua... Luis Ortiz... Vitali Klitschko... Lennox Lewis... Ike Ibeabuchi... Wladimir Klitschko... Larry Holmes

Level 2: David Haye... Tyson Fury... Deontay Wilder... Gene Tunney... Jack Johnson... Joe Louis... Evander Holyfield

Level 3: Tim Witherspoon... Jack Dempsey... Mike Tyson... Muhammad Ali... Alexander Povetkin... Sonny Liston

Level 4: Ray Mercer... James J Jeffries... George Foreman... Sultan Ibragimov.... Lamon Brewster... Trevor Berbick

Tyson Fury, Luis Ortiz, Anthony Joshua, Ibeabuchi ranked over Ali and Tyson...pure comedy

Foreman on the same level as Brewster and Berbick?

Fury, Ortiz, Joshua, and Ibeabuchi never lost... They were bigger and stronger and better defensively... Ali and Tyson ate jabs for instance... Foreman was easily outboxed and floored by feather hitter Jimmy Young - who came into the Foreman Fight 20-5-2 and lost 3 of his next 4 fights after beating Foreman... I did rank Foreman ahead of both Brewster and Berbick...but the Brewster who smashed Golota and the Berbick who beat Greg Page for Page's 1st loss were pretty good Heavyweights... All 3 were good Heavyweights... You fail to look at the full picture.

[Kalan]

Ranking most of the Heavyweight Champions and Ike Ibeabuchi, according to this system... I might have missed a few by accident -- there's so many

Level 1: Anthony Joshua... Luis Ortiz... Vitali Klitschko... Lennox Lewis... Ike Ibeabuchi... Wladimir Klitschko... Larry Holmes

Level 2: David Haye... Tyson Fury... Deontay Wilder... Gene Tunney... Jack Johnson... Joe Louis... Evander Holyfield

Level 3: Tim Witherspoon... Jack Dempsey... Mike Tyson... Muhammad Ali... Alexander Povetkin... Sonny Liston

Level 4: Ray Mercer... James J Jeffries... George Foreman... Sultan Ibragimov.... Lamon Brewster... Trevor Berbick

Tyson Fury, Luis Ortiz, Anthony Joshua, Ibeabuchi ranked over Ali and Tyson...pure comedy

Foreman on the same level as Brewster and Berbick?

Did you miss Joe Frazier on the same level as Charles Martin? I would have had to have a sit down if anyone else had posted this.

Charles Martin must be one hell of a swimmer.

Frazier never faced big, tall, brutally powerful punchers... except for one (1) ... Charles Martin's only lost came to a 6'6" X 245 puncher... a guy who could also box Martin's ass clean off... Who was the greatest 6'6" X 245 boxer-puncher who Joe Frazier ever faced??? ... Could Foreman box??? Or did he just beat Frazier like a punching bag until he battered the fat little guy out in 2 rounds??? ... Frazier never impressed me other than his ability to absorb most Heavyweight's punches.. I always thought he would fare poorly versus a big, tall, strong puncher and we found out.

[Kalan]

Foreman was 217 and in superb rock hard physical condition for the 1st Frazier fight... I was pretty impressed by that... He should have kept that up.

[Controversial]

Are these rankings based on achievements or head to head fights?

[Kalan]

It seems I missed Michael Moorer and maybe 1 or 2 others... Moorer would be about a level 7 guy.

[Kalan]

Are these rankings based on achievements or head to head fights?

Not entirely... It's hard to compare eras because of all the generational bias.. Many Americans think the only eras that counted were when America dominated the Heavyweight class ... and when there was very weak international competition to compete with their all-American heroes.

So you have to also take into consideration: size, strength, speed, skills, athleticism, intelligence, competitiveness, work ethic (whether they ever came in the ring FAT and out-of-shape for instance), and a boxer's sheer determination to keep improving their game fight after fight and year after year. We have some very good Heavyweights right now compared to past eras

1. Anthony Joshua... 2. Luis Ortiz... 3. Tyson Fury... 4. Deontay Wilder... 5. Wladimir Klitschko... 6. Alexander Povetkin... 7. David Haye... 8. Andy Ruiz... 9. Joseph Parker... 10. Charles Martin... 11. Bryant Jennings... 12. Hughie Fury... 13. Erkan Teper... 14. Kubrat Pulev... 15. Johann Duhaupas... 16. Ruslan Chagaev... 17. Bermane Stiverne... 18. Lucas Browne... 19. Malik Scott... 20. Carlos Takam... 21. Mike Perez... 22. Alexander Ustinov... 23. Dereck Chisora... 24. Christian Hammer... 25. Robert Helenius... 26. Steve Cunningham... 27. Artur Szpilka... 28. Otto Wallin... 29. Czar Glazkov... 30. Dominic Breazeale... 31. Amir Mansour

[gilgamesh]

Tyson Fury, Luis Ortiz, Anthony Joshua, Ibeabuchi ranked over Ali and Tyson...pure comedy

Foreman on the same level as Brewster and Berbick?

Fury, Ortiz, Joshua, and Ibeabuchi never lost... They were bigger and stronger and better defensively... Ali and Tyson ate jabs for instance... Foreman was easily outboxed and floored by feather hitter Jimmy Young - who came into the Foreman Fight 20-5-2 and lost 3 of his next 4 fights after beating Foreman... I did rank Foreman ahead of both Brewster and Berbick...but the Brewster who smashed Golota and the Berbick who beat Greg Page for Page's 1st loss were pretty good Heavyweights... All 3 were good Heavyweights... You fail to look at the full picture.

Ibeabuchi didn't have a chance to lose he went to Prison after 20 fights for Raping a girl, and in my opinion he shouldn't have got the decision in the David Tua fight. I had Tua winning that one.

Fury, Ortiz and Joshua are still likely to lose before it's all said and done. They still have a ways to go in their careers.