Greatest Asain fighters?

[meade95]

Here's my top 10 Asian fighters ever:

10. Kaosai Galaxy (the most over-rated Asian fighter of all-time, fought absolutely no one in the most talent-rich era of the divison & still had to struggle against the garbage at times)

Just looking through some old threads here on this fourm. This is (above) some of the biggest BS I've come across yet on these forums. I have 18 of Galaxy's fights on tape....and the above post is just ridiculous.

The reality is the other Champions during Galaxy's reign avoided him! Without question (and smartly so).

Furthermore Galaxy DID fight and beat the other long reigning IBF JBW champion during his regin....that was E. Pical!! - And he beat him on the road in Pical's HOME COUNTRY and HOMETOWN to boot (KO 14th).

The reality is K. Galaxy Resume is very impressive by all measures....

The notion that Galaxy only fought in Thailand is incorrect. He defended his world title in a number of places outside of Thailand...

He traveld and beat a highly thought of IBF JBW Champion Ellyas Pical, in Jakarta, Indonesia.....so this was in all effect a "unification" title fight...yet the IBF wouldn't put Pical's title on the line....so only Galaxy was risking anything when he took this fight.....yet he took it...travled and KHTFO!

He traveld and beat the undefeated / big punching Israel Contreras (24-0-1) in Willemstad, Curacao -

He traveld and beat Chang Ho Choi in Seoul, Korea -

He traveld and beat Kenji Matsumura, in Japan (Twice) -

Outside of the quality competition listed above....Galaxy also fought and beat...the following...

Rafael Orono 32-2-1 (WBC JBW World Champion....had an accomplished reign as champion)

Edgar Omar Monserrat 13-1-0 (Highly rated challenger....fought for sevearl world titles)

Israel Contreras 24-0-1 (Went on to win WBO & WBA BW World Titles)

Ellyas Pical 16-1-0 (Long reigning IBF JBW Champion...8 defenses...when he lost to K. Galaxy his IBF belt wasn't on the line....Galaxy's WBA belt was)

Tae-Il Chang 26-2-1 (Won IBF World Title)

Alberto Castro 21-2-1 (solid challenger)

Cobra Ari Blanca 30-5-3 (challenged for several world titles)

Shunichi Nakajima 23-4-0 (Japanese super fyweight Champion)

Yong Kang Kim 21-2-0 (Went on to win 2 world titles)

Ernesto Ford 21-1-0 (ranked in the top 10 of all three world titles at the time)

Jae-Sok Park 14-1-0 (ranked #3 at the time)

David Griman 13-0-0 (Went on to win WBA Fly Title)

Chang Ho Choi 18-2-0 (IBF Fly World Champion)

Dong Chun Lee 20-5-1 (former OPBF Super Flyweight Title)


So the reality is not only did K. Galaxy travel and beat opponents....but he faced a very healthy resume during his long and impressive reign.

Additionally many top-challengers simply avoiding fighting him. And rather took on one of other JBW title holders.

[ferroz]

What about Manny Pacquiao?

[meade95]

What about Manny Pacquiao?

Definitely Manny deserves to be on this list now - (though he trains and fights so much in the States (U.S.) anymore....he sometimes gets overlooked as a fighter out of Asia -

[ferroz]

What about Brian Viloria?

[Chuck1052]

If you want to know why Asian fighters don't get much
in the way of respect in the U.S., take a look at their
performance there during the late 1970s and early
1980s. Because of the phony ratings of alphabet
groups, so many inept Asian, African, and European
fighters were used as cannon fodder for top fighters
looking for easy, but lucrative, paydays at a time
when there was lots of boxing on both the major
and early cable networks.

- Chuck Johnston

[Chuck1052]

I would like to add that there were an incrediable number
of Filipino fighters who were boxing on the United States
during the late 1920s and all of the 1930s, especially on
the West Coast and in the Hawaiian Islands. Take a look
at the results of bouts taking place in California during the
said years on BoxRec. You will find many world-class
Filipino fighters, notably Pancho Villa, Speedy Dado, Clever
Sencio, Pablo Dano, Pete Sarmiento, Ignacio Fernandez,
Young Tommy, Ceferino Garcia, Little Pancho, Small
Montana, and Little Dado. Keep in mind....I have NOT
listed the names of numerous California-based Filipino
fighters who were journeymen or club fighters.

One reason that many Filipino fighters were based
in California during the 1920s and 1930s was due
to the fact that there was an incrediable Filipino
fan base in the state at the time. Yes, there were
only about 30,000 Filipinos in California in 1930, but
the Filipino males outnumbered the Filipino females
by a ratio of 13-to-1 in the state during the said
year. Moreover, the vast majority of those Filipino
males were between the ages of fifteen and thirty.
Stockton, Pismo Beach, Watsonville, and El Centro
would become locales that were very dependent
on Filipino boxing fans at the time.

- Chuck Johnston

[Autobarn]

veeraphol's career has kept looking more impressive, with the successes of nishioka (4 fight tough rivalry) and hasegawa.

hasegawa just became a 2 weight champ with featherweight success vs jc burgos and nishioka put on a masterclass in defense of his 122 title recently.

always felt that veeraphol showed greatness in defeat, fighting furiously to final bell vs young hasegawa, who wrested his title in a close, bitterly contested fight.

i hope ppl start to look at fights like these with some fondness, as the thai master fought a couple of real thoroughbreads away from home. if these were mex/PR fights they'd be hailed as classics already.

[gilgamesh]

Manny Pacquiao has accomplished more than any other Asian fighter in history, so he's the best hands down.

Fighting Harada holding 2 wins over Eder Jofre definitely deserves a mention as Jofre was definitely one of the great P4P fighters of his day, and one of the greatest all time Bantamweights.

Khaosai Galaxy the most dominant Jr. Bantamweight in history " The Thai Tyson" is in my opinion better than the fighter he takes his nickname from.

Pongsaklek Wongjongkam is still in the midst of building one hell of a career and a legacy, when he's retired there'll be plenty to be discussed about him.

[Autobarn]

For some perspective:



Myung-Woo Yuh: 38-1 (20-1)

Yuh is the king of the hometown gifts. Asia is notorious for having the cards stacked against the foreign challenger & even true greats like Chang received a gift or two at home. But the number of gifts that Yuh received at home is simply astonishing. I have not seen all of his title fights but I count at least 6: Olivio, 2 with De Jesus, 2 with Gamez & Salazar. This is almost sickening. So if Yuh's fights were judged fairly, he could be at best something like 32-7, not bad but hardly an all-timer. As is, unfortunately, Yuh is considered in some quarters as even the greatest light flyweight ever, greater than Chang, Zapata, Gonzalez & Carbajal. I would also add that Yuh also fought in a talent-rich junior flyweight era & could've faced Chang, Gonzalez, Carbajal & Torres, none of whom, of course, he ended up facing. So in Yuh you got a fighter who struggled mightily against B opposition. A very ordinary fighter by a world titlist standard.

nice hatchet job on some very good fighters.

yuh was in some close fights. i happen to have seen some of them, such as the rematch with gamez. it did not seem like a "sickening robbery" to me. yuh controlled large sections of the fight, beating gamez to the jab and forcing him back, and working him over whenever the fight went toe the ropes. only 3 times did gamez threaten to take over, when yuh charged in, allowing the former 105/future 108, 112 and 115-lb title holder to counter with hard hooks and rights. yuh controlled whereas gamez stole probbaly less than a handful of rounds.

i don't see how that fight is a robbery. honestly the official scores do not seem far off, at all: Lou Tabat 116-112 | judge: Guy Jutras 118-112 | judge: Ken Morita 117-111. if you're passing yuh's fights off as robberies, then how reliable are comments like the above on matchups vs dejesus, gamez 1, etc?

yuh featured in many hard fought battles, some of which were close, and rematched all - gamez- de jesus, mario demarco - aside from olivio, a ctroversial bout indeed. (his world title debut, while still in the armed forces of korea, not even a full time fighter probably)

it took carbajal and gonalez about 3 years to get it on, because of chiquita gonzalez's shock loss to pascua, and by this point yuh was heading into hnis retirement fight (fafter regaining title vs 105/108 titlist ioka).

[King Carlos]

A nice forum you guys have here; as someone who grew up in Asia, as well as watched probably several thousand Asian fights (including key fights of virtually every big name Asian fighter in the last 30 or so years), I think I can contribute something here.

Here's my top 10 Asian fighters ever:

1. Fighting Harada (legitimately beat Jofre twice; should have been the only fighter to ever win flyweight, bantamweight & featherweight titles had it not been for the infamous robbery against Famechon, a fight I scored 148-136)

2. Jung-Koo Chang (the best pure talent to ever come out of Asia; a boxing prodigy & genius who could have accomplished even more had he not wasted his career away with booze and women; still, he was almost untouchable in his prime, thoroughly dominating some of the greatest junior flyweights & flyweights of the last two decades in Zapata, Chitalada & Torres)

3. Pancho Villa (beat Wilde, the greatest flyweight ever; but the rest of his record is spotty)

4. Masao Ohba (often compared to Sanchez because of his untimely death at 23; some in Japan think he would have been better than Harada had he lieved)

5. Gabriel Elorde (beat Saddler & stretched Carlos Ortiz to the max)

6. Chan-Hee Park (similar to Chang in terms of wasting away his vast talent in booze & women; still beat the still-great Canto & obliterated Guty Espadas; textbook boxing skills & phenomenal speed)

7. Sung-Kil Moon (maybe the biggest puncher to ever come out of Asia, knocknamed "hands of stone"; regularly knocked out welterweights in sparring)

8. Jiro Watanabe (talented-wise perhaps the greatest junior bantamweight among the trio of Watanabe, Moon & Galaxy, but his ducking of Galaxy makes you wonder what could have been?)

9. Pone Kingpetch (vastly over-rated flyweight who benefited from facing an aging Perez & two scandalous gifts against Harada & Ebihara in the return bouts [after he was starched in the 1st bouts, in the case of v. Ebihara, literally in the 1st])

10. Kaosai Galaxy (the most over-rated Asian fighter of all-time, fought absolutely no one in the most talent-rich era of the divison & still had to struggle against the garbage at times)

I agree with most of your points, but if you believe (as I do) that Kingpetch and Galaxy were so overrated, why are they in your top 10? I actually believe Khaokor was the superior Galaxy.

Kingpetch I would regard as the most overrated of the bunch, personally. He was a very good fighter, but without the benefit of so many crooked decisions wouldn't be more than a foot note to the lesser researched fans, in the same ilk as someone like Erbito Salavarria. By my count the only fight he legitimately deserved among his high profile fights was the rematch with an aging Perez (obviously). No way did he deserve the rematch verdicts against either Harada or Ebihara, and I believe he narrowly lost the first fight with Perez as well (although that one was at least arguable). Even in the footage available of his bout with a relatively inexperienced Mitsunori Seki he seems to be getting generally the worst of the action.

[King Carlos]

Here's my top 10 Asian fighters ever:

10. Kaosai Galaxy (the most over-rated Asian fighter of all-time, fought absolutely no one in the most talent-rich era of the divison & still had to struggle against the garbage at times)

Just looking through some old threads here on this fourm. This is (above) some of the biggest BS I've come across yet on these forums. I have 18 of Galaxy's fights on tape....and the above post is just ridiculous.

The reality is the other Champions during Galaxy's reign avoided him! Without question (and smartly so).

Furthermore Galaxy DID fight and beat the other long reigning IBF JBW champion during his regin....that was E. Pical!! - And he beat him on the road in Pical's HOME COUNTRY and HOMETOWN to boot (KO 14th).

The reality is K. Galaxy Resume is very impressive by all measures....

The notion that Galaxy only fought in Thailand is incorrect. He defended his world title in a number of places outside of Thailand...

He traveld and beat a highly thought of IBF JBW Champion Ellyas Pical, in Jakarta, Indonesia.....so this was in all effect a "unification" title fight...yet the IBF wouldn't put Pical's title on the line....so only Galaxy was risking anything when he took this fight.....yet he took it...travled and KHTFO!

He traveld and beat the undefeated / big punching Israel Contreras (24-0-1) in Willemstad, Curacao -

He traveld and beat Chang Ho Choi in Seoul, Korea -

He traveld and beat Kenji Matsumura, in Japan (Twice) -

Outside of the quality competition listed above....Galaxy also fought and beat...the following...

Rafael Orono 32-2-1 (WBC JBW World Champion....had an accomplished reign as champion)

Edgar Omar Monserrat 13-1-0 (Highly rated challenger....fought for sevearl world titles)

Israel Contreras 24-0-1 (Went on to win WBO & WBA BW World Titles)

Ellyas Pical 16-1-0 (Long reigning IBF JBW Champion...8 defenses...when he lost to K. Galaxy his IBF belt wasn't on the line....Galaxy's WBA belt was)

Tae-Il Chang 26-2-1 (Won IBF World Title)

Alberto Castro 21-2-1 (solid challenger)

Cobra Ari Blanca 30-5-3 (challenged for several world titles)

Shunichi Nakajima 23-4-0 (Japanese super fyweight Champion)

Yong Kang Kim 21-2-0 (Went on to win 2 world titles)

Ernesto Ford 21-1-0 (ranked in the top 10 of all three world titles at the time)

Jae-Sok Park 14-1-0 (ranked #3 at the time)

David Griman 13-0-0 (Went on to win WBA Fly Title)

Chang Ho Choi 18-2-0 (IBF Fly World Champion)

Dong Chun Lee 20-5-1 (former OPBF Super Flyweight Title)


So the reality is not only did K. Galaxy travel and beat opponents....but he faced a very healthy resume during his long and impressive reign.

Additionally many top-challengers simply avoiding fighting him. And rather took on one of other JBW title holders.

You're just naming names, my friend. The fact is the majority of his best opponents were little more than middling splinter champs (and most of the men you mentioned were almost completely nondescript as challengers), including the likes of Pical, who, along with Orono, was probably the best he faced. Orono was of course on the decline by the time Galaxy went up against him, anyway.

Fact is, Galaxy fought in the most stacked era in the division's history, and rarely ever fought out of his hometown (although the crooked politics of Thai boxing surely played a role in that) or against quality opposition. Every one of the other top dogs of the era (Moon, Konadu, Watanabe, Laciar, Roman, etc.) fought and defeated far superior opposition, and did so exhibiting a much more rounded skill-set (Moon aside). These men were far more proven than Galaxy, and as such should be rated above him. That's not to say he'd be without any chance of beating any of them, but the facts are that he never proved his worth as they did.

Even his brother faced the superior opponents, and proved himself more conclusively, in my opinion. Khaosai was a physical beast of a man at the weight, but compare his fights with his brothers, compare the skill-sets of both men side by side, and I think you'll find, as I do, that it's quite an injustice for Khaokor to fly so under the radar by comparison.

[King Carlos]

For some perspective:



Myung-Woo Yuh: 38-1 (20-1)

Yuh is the king of the hometown gifts. Asia is notorious for having the cards stacked against the foreign challenger & even true greats like Chang received a gift or two at home. But the number of gifts that Yuh received at home is simply astonishing. I have not seen all of his title fights but I count at least 6: Olivio, 2 with De Jesus, 2 with Gamez & Salazar. This is almost sickening. So if Yuh's fights were judged fairly, he could be at best something like 32-7, not bad but hardly an all-timer. As is, unfortunately, Yuh is considered in some quarters as even the greatest light flyweight ever, greater than Chang, Zapata, Gonzalez & Carbajal. I would also add that Yuh also fought in a talent-rich junior flyweight era & could've faced Chang, Gonzalez, Carbajal & Torres, none of whom, of course, he ended up facing. So in Yuh you got a fighter who struggled mightily against B opposition. A very ordinary fighter by a world titlist standard.

nice hatchet job on some very good fighters.

yuh was in some close fights. i happen to have seen some of them, such as the rematch with gamez. it did not seem like a "sickening robbery" to me. yuh controlled large sections of the fight, beating gamez to the jab and forcing him back, and working him over whenever the fight went toe the ropes. only 3 times did gamez threaten to take over, when yuh charged in, allowing the former 105/future 108, 112 and 115-lb title holder to counter with hard hooks and rights. yuh controlled whereas gamez stole probbaly less than a handful of rounds.

i don't see how that fight is a robbery. honestly the official scores do not seem far off, at all: Lou Tabat 116-112 | judge: Guy Jutras 118-112 | judge: Ken Morita 117-111. if you're passing yuh's fights off as robberies, then how reliable are comments like the above on matchups vs dejesus, gamez 1, etc?

yuh featured in many hard fought battles, some of which were close, and rematched all - gamez- de jesus, mario demarco - aside from olivio, a ctroversial bout indeed. (his world title debut, while still in the armed forces of korea, not even a full time fighter probably)

it took carbajal and gonalez about 3 years to get it on, because of chiquita gonzalez's shock loss to pascua, and by this point yuh was heading into hnis retirement fight (fafter regaining title vs 105/108 titlist ioka).

Gotta agree with you here. I for one don't consider the rematch with Gamez to have even been particularly close. Yuh won it going away in my book, along with most of the fights Joonie mentioned if I recall correctly (may have to rewatch a few).

[Autobarn]

would be curious to know about the first fight with gamez, though, which was supposed to be a tight one (as i can't get hold of this fight anywhere).

[orbtastic]

Definitely exists, as do numerous fights of his before that.

[Autobarn]

absolutely, it's just the guy i get 'em from doesn't appear to have it.

[orbtastic]

I'll see if I can source it.

[KSTAT124]

9. Pone Kingpetch (vastly over-rated flyweight who benefited from facing an aging Perez & two scandalous gifts against Harada & Ebihara in the return bouts [after he was starched in the 1st bouts, in the case of v. Ebihara, literally in the 1st])

Perez may have been 33 years old at the time he first fought Kingpetch but he was the defending world flyweight champion and had successfully defended his title for the ninth time five months earlier.

As for the rematches with Harada and Ebihara, Kingpetch defeated Harada by a 15-round, majority decision with the Thai referee scoring it for Kingpetch, the Japanese judge having it even, and The Ring's co-founder Nat Fleischer, who served as a judge, scoring 71-67 for Kingpetch. Kingpetch, bouncing back from his blowout loss, won a split decision over Ebihara after 15 rounds with another Thai ref scoring it in his favor by three points, a Japanese judge scoring it in Ebihara's favor by two points, and the neutral judge, Arthur Hindman, scoring it for Kingpetch by six. Hindman may have had the margin of victory a bit wide but by all Western accounts of the fight, he had the right winner.

[King Carlos]

9. Pone Kingpetch (vastly over-rated flyweight who benefited from facing an aging Perez & two scandalous gifts against Harada & Ebihara in the return bouts [after he was starched in the 1st bouts, in the case of v. Ebihara, literally in the 1st])

Perez may have been 33 years old at the time he first fought Kingpetch but he was the defending world flyweight champion and had successfully defended his title for the ninth time five months earlier.

As for the rematches with Harada and Ebihara, Kingpetch defeated Harada by a 15-round, majority decision with the Thai referee scoring it for Kingpetch, the Japanese judge having it even, and The Ring's co-founder Nat Fleischer, who served as a judge, scoring 71-67 for Kingpetch. Kingpetch, bouncing back from his blowout loss, won a split decision over Ebihara after 15 rounds with another Thai ref scoring it in his favor by three points, a Japanese judge scoring it in Ebihara's favor by two points, and the neutral judge, Arthur Hindman, scoring it for Kingpetch by six. Hindman may have had the margin of victory a bit wide but by all Western accounts of the fight, he had the right winner.

I'm assuming there was a point to this post?

[Autobarn]

another non-robbery!

yuh-de jesus 2.

hard fought, yes. close, without doubt. tough, extremely. but yuh's probing, pressing, intelligent style won it for me, even though it was a split verdict in korean.

yuh came across as an intelligent, constantly adapting fighter, overcoming several problems to outhustle his challenger, who became reduced to riding the shots brilliantly but not coming back with enough of his own shots.

loved yuh's short right hand which he drops over the shoulder of the very defensively adept de jesus.

still think yuh got the benefit of the doubt? he dropped de jesus with what seemed a legit shot, in the first or second. the ref did not count. yuh robbed of an extra point.

yuh fought some superb boxers, in gamez (twice) and de jesus (twice). de jesus, interestingly, beat isidro perez, who gave legendary jung koo chang one of his toughest bouts. carbajal (with his slow feet) and chiquita gonzalez (with his lack of height) would certainly not have been blowing these guys out.

chang seems to be amaster of rematches. add to that mario demarco, whom yuh outslugged in a 15-round classic and then in the rematch used movement and superb combinations to win a bruising (but more one sided) encounter.

[Old bones Ian]

I nominate Cerferino Garcia one the best welterweights in the 30's and 40's at a time when not too many fighters came from te Phillipine Islands

Good call there, Garcia does get over looked when lists are made up of great asian boxers, he beat alot of top guys, he is best remembered for his controversal draw with Henry Armstrong, having watched the fight on youtube, its a hard one to score.