Jimmy Young vs Lennox Lewis

[BoxBuzz]

I went to search this out and it has never been discussed apparently.

At least I couldn't find it.

My first thought is Lewis in a walk. But at his best Young defeated Foreman. And possibly Norton and Ali. Competitive with all 3 easily.

Is this a match that could make for an interesting outcome? If a boring fight?

[Kalan]

Lewis would crush Young... Young came into the Foreman fight with 5 losses and lost 3 of his next 4 fights... He had no power. He was no genius.

Young was a clever jabber and mover. He jabbed well and could put the right counter in quickly if he got the right opponent... Preferably somebody slow, dumb, and unskilled. Anybody else gave him problems.

[Cygnus475]

Lewis and young would cautiously circle and feel each other out the first round. Lewis tries to mix it up with straights and flurries but Young starts popping him and tangling him up inside. He sends crashing rights and blows to Lewis' body. In the 3rd round Lewis sees where things are heading and backs off to make it a mid range fight and force young to come to him, peppering him with jabs and setting up a vicious uppercut as young is forced to charge inside against the much taller longer armed lewis.

Young gets up and survives. Round 4 and 5 he uses his legs to recuperate and the lazy lewis doesn't go for the kill. Young gets the timing on the uppercut and counters the hell out of lewis, sending him on queer street with a crashing overhand right while deflecting Lewis' uppercut with his left. Lewis is against the ropes on rubbery legs. He clings for dear life to avoid going down. The red breaks it up but he stalls and clinches again, losing a point as punishment.

Round 6-8 young has made the meek lewis gun shy and taken over, offering all sorts of confusing angles and weaving and leaning. A frustrated lewis knows the scorecards are close and uses half hearted jabs to set up a right cross but young makes him pay. Lewis clinches and leans on young continuously, tiring him out, smothering him, sneaking in uppercuts when he can and jabbing to the body. Both fighers are tired as hell and have a strategic close quarters phone booth slugfest, leaning on each other and occasionally rabbit and kidney punching. Young is scoring more with his speed and precision but lewis is tiring him out faster with his power as an equalizer. He suddenly shoves young back, opens him up with a flurry and sends a crashing right hand. Young slips the punch at the last second to minimize the damage but it affects his legs immediately and he doesn't beat the count. Lewis sighs a breath of relief and collapses on his stool.

[elmersalsa]

At his very best, and focused, Jimmy Young will give Lennox Lewis a boxing lesson.

[Tony1244]

At their best, I'd pick LL to win by unanimous decision like LL did against Ossie Ocassio.

Why was Young so bad after the Foreman fight? Substance abuse? Style of fighter he was facing? Can anyone shed some light on this for me cause I have no idea.

In retrospect, both Ali and Young were allowed to get away with a lot of holding and grabbing against GF.

[Ambling Alp II]

The Ocasio that fought Lewis was way, way past it.
Young did have drug problems. After the Foreman fight, he fought a great fight against Norton in a surprisingly exciting fight. He very easily could have got the decision in a close fight. Had he got that decision, he would have been given the WBC title and would be more highly regarded today. After the Norton fight, he gradually declined. His win/loss record is very deceiving. Early in Young's career, he was thrown to the wolves, fighting good competition when he did not have much experience.

At his best, Young was an excellent boxer and would have had a serious chance against Lewis.

[wouter]

Lewis would crush Young... Young came into the Foreman fight with 5 losses and lost 3 of his next 4 fights... He had no power. He was no genius.

Young was a clever jabber and mover. He jabbed well and could put the right counter in quickly if he got the right opponent... Preferably somebody slow, dumb, and unskilled. Anybody else gave him problems.

Nobody's interested in your opinion, so don't bother posting.

[Kalan]

Young did poorly after the Foreman fight for the same reasons he didn't perform spectacularly before the fight. He was 20-5-2 coming into that fight. Jimmy was a good, slick mover with a quick jab, and slick right hand counter -- but there are many other slick boxing heavyweights with deeper talents.

Young had no real body attack or step in left hook like fast Eddie Chambers... He wasn't a super tricky, elusive, and confusing southpaw like Chris Byrd... He didn't have fairly good size, height, and range like Muhammad Ali and Larry Holmes... Young didn't have moderate power, great toughness, and the ability to attack and trade punches furiously with most opponents like Larry Holmes.. He even lost to Norton, yet Young's talents matched up well with certain select opponents like Lyle and Foreman.. Guys who depended on strength and power and you could see everything coming because they weren't very clever -- and also guys who didn't attack very well and put a head on you because he didn't do well with those.

With a clever matchmaker like Cus D'Amato or Angie Dundee he would have done much better. For instance, D'Amato kept Patterson away from Sonny Liston for many years. Cus wasn't really interested in what anybody had to say about it because he knew Floyd was dead the minute he signed for that fight.

[Kalan]

How's that????

[BoxBuzz]

Young did poorly after the Foreman fight for the same reasons he didn't perform spectacularly before the fight. He was 20-5-2 coming into that fight. Jimmy was a good, slick mover with a quick jab, and slick right hand counter -- but there are many other slick boxing heavyweights with deeper talents.

Young had no real body attack or step in left hook like fast Eddie Chambers... He wasn't a super tricky, elusive, and confusing southpaw like Chris Byrd... He didn't have fairly good size, height, and range like Muhammad Ali and Larry Holmes... Young didn't have moderate power, great toughness, and the ability to attack and trade punches furiously with most opponents like Larry Holmes.. He even lost to Norton, yet Young's talents matched up well with certain select opponents like Lyle and Foreman.. Guys who depended on strength and power and you could see everything coming because they weren't very clever -- and also guys who didn't attack very well and put a head on you because he didn't do well with those.

With a clever matchmaker like Cus D'Amato or Angie Dundee he would have done much better. For instance, D'Amato kept Patterson away from Sonny Liston for many years. Cus wasn't really interested in what anybody had to say about it because he knew Floyd was dead the minute he signed for that fight.

OK, so yes Norton got the decision over Young, and you are on the record as saying that the judges decide and that's that......unless of course it's the Ali suspect wins, then that rule breaks down apparently. That Norton Young fight was a close fight......and Young really could have walked away with the win. But of course you also say that the Holyfield Lewis fights were not competitive. I suppose you don't think that the Holmes Norton fight was close either....I saw it as a pretty hotly contested bout. Anyway.....I can't understand why Lewis would simply blow him out of there easily.....Young could be a pretty difficult target for a variety of styles, and was as cagey as they came. Now if he was winning, and he started poking his head out of the ropes.....anything could happen, even Lewis could be given a gift.

[BoxBuzz]

How's that????

He's probably not crazy bout your crabby persona and overly bombastic rhetoric.

[Tuan_Jim]

Lewis would crush Young... Young came into the Foreman fight with 5 losses and lost 3 of his next 4 fights... He had no power. He was no genius.

Young was a clever jabber and mover. He jabbed well and could put the right counter in quickly if he got the right opponent... Preferably somebody slow, dumb, and unskilled. Anybody else gave him problems.

Nobody's interested in your opinion, so don't bother posting.

No one would miss his ravings if you removed him permanently from the forum. By far the single most annoying creature to darken Boxrec since Flex, circa 2002.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Lewis would fight cautiously enough to win a decision. Young was a much better infighter, that's where he would do his best work.

[Tuan_Jim]

The Ocasio that fought Lewis was way, way past it.
Young did have drug problems. After the Foreman fight, he fought a great fight against Norton in a surprisingly exciting fight. He very easily could have got the decision in a close fight. Had he got that decision, he would have been given the WBC title and would be more highly regarded today. After the Norton fight, he gradually declined. His win/loss record is very deceiving. Early in Young's career, he was thrown to the wolves, fighting good competition when he did not have much experience.

At his best, Young was an excellent boxer and would have had a serious chance against Lewis.

I think Young was best against big aggressive guys trying to take him out - Shavers, Lyle, Ali, Foreman, Norton. I can see why a fiddly, uninspiring little guy like Ocasio, who was hungry at the time, could hustle a win over him.

Jimmy's own words on his sudden decline (from Boxing News, August 15 2003):

"I was watching Ali lose his title to Spinks. Somebody started talking about cocaine. I had never seen that stuff before. June 9th 1978 (vs Ossie Ocasio) was the first time I went into a fight with cocaine in my body. I didn't know what it would do. Six months later in the rematch I lost again. I was spending $1,200-$1,300 on that stuff a week. A week! I was staying up six days at a time. i got addicted bad. Real bad."

[Kalan]

Lewis would fight cautiously enough to win a decision. Young was a much better infighter, that's where he would do his best work.

He would win a decision true... maybe even a stoppage. Young was not a good attacker like Tua or Holyfield who really weren't able to use their superior infighting skills on Lewis. Young was a jabbing and countering specialist and that's how he beat the slower and less technical Foreman. I don't see Young getting inside and getting a lot of work done. Like it was against a young Gerry Cooney, Young's lack of height, range, and power would be a liability versus Lewis... Lewis would be extremely confident -- like he was for Golota, Tyson, Grant, Tua, Ruddock, and other fighters who had a fairly limited game---but who many American "experts" picked to beat Lewis.. LL would walk away with an easy win over Young.

Where many American analysts sometimes failed in judging Lewis's prospects in a fight, was his all around game.. He could box, punch, and fight.. I was never a big fan of Lewis's, mainly because of his cold arrogance and distain for his opponents -- and his tendency to foul with holding and hitting and head work -- but he did have a great jab, great right hand, and good feet.. He was real big, tall, strong, tough, and skilled, and had a lot of ways to beat you.

[BoxBuzz]

The Ocasio that fought Lewis was way, way past it.
Young did have drug problems. After the Foreman fight, he fought a great fight against Norton in a surprisingly exciting fight. He very easily could have got the decision in a close fight. Had he got that decision, he would have been given the WBC title and would be more highly regarded today. After the Norton fight, he gradually declined. His win/loss record is very deceiving. Early in Young's career, he was thrown to the wolves, fighting good competition when he did not have much experience.

At his best, Young was an excellent boxer and would have had a serious chance against Lewis.

I think Young was best against big aggressive guys trying to take him out - Shavers, Lyle, Ali, Foreman, Norton. I can see why a fiddly, uninspiring little guy like Ocasio, who was hungry at the time, could hustle a win over him.

Jimmy's own words on his sudden decline (from Boxing News, August 15 2003):

"I was watching Ali lose his title to Spinks. Somebody started talking about cocaine. I had never seen that stuff before. June 9th 1978 (vs Ossie Ocasio) was the first time I went into a fight with cocaine in my body. I didn't know what it would do. Six months later in the rematch I lost again. I was spending $1,200-$1,300 on that stuff a week. A week! I was staying up six days at a time. i got addicted bad. Real bad."

Yep, Jimmy needed a real mentor someone to keep him seeing the bright side of life. His story is one of those that if only a few things had gone differently, his trajectory might have been much more dominating in boxing. If he had the attitude and determination of a Chris Byrd for example......what potential he showed.

[Kalan]

Nice excuse for some of Young's losses... He was on coke... Of course... What were his excuses for losing all those fights before he fought Foreman????

[BoxBuzz]

Nice excuse for some of Young's losses... He was on coke... Of course... What were his excuses for losing all those fights before he fought Foreman????

Hard one to answer. You weren't training him were you?

[Kalan]

Young did poorly after the Foreman fight for the same reasons he didn't perform spectacularly before the fight. He was 20-5-2 coming into that fight. Jimmy was a good, slick mover with a quick jab, and slick right hand counter -- but there are many other slick boxing heavyweights with deeper talents.

Young had no real body attack or step in left hook like fast Eddie Chambers... He wasn't a super tricky, elusive, and confusing southpaw like Chris Byrd... He didn't have fairly good size, height, and range like Muhammad Ali and Larry Holmes... Young didn't have moderate power, great toughness, and the ability to attack and trade punches furiously with most opponents like Larry Holmes.. He even lost to Norton, yet Young's talents matched up well with certain select opponents like Lyle and Foreman.. Guys who depended on strength and power and you could see everything coming because they weren't very clever -- and also guys who didn't attack very well and put a head on you because he didn't do well with those.

With a clever matchmaker like Cus D'Amato or Angie Dundee he would have done much better. For instance, D'Amato kept Patterson away from Sonny Liston for many years. Cus wasn't really interested in what anybody had to say about it because he knew Floyd was dead the minute he signed for that fight.

OK, so yes Norton got the decision over Young, and you are on the record as saying that the judges decide and that's that......unless of course it's the Ali suspect wins, then that rule breaks down apparently. That Norton Young fight was a close fight......and Young really could have walked away with the win. But of course you also say that the Holyfield Lewis fights were not competitive. I suppose you don't think that the Holmes Norton fight was close either....I saw it as a pretty hotly contested bout. Anyway.....I can't understand why Lewis would simply blow him out of there easily.....Young could be a pretty difficult target for a variety of styles, and was as cagey as they came. Now if he was winning, and he started poking his head out of the ropes.....anything could happen, even Lewis could be given a gift.

Lewis wouldn't be given a gift in the USA against an American fighter, with Don King as the promoter... What happened was Lewis was screwed by the ridiculous draw... The decision in that fight got more negative press than any other fight in Boxing History up to Pacquiao-Bradley 1...

Norton-Young was close. Young didn't match up well with Norton.. Holmes-Norton was 146-139 on my card.. Many of the rounds were close after the first 5 because of Holmes' well documented torn left biceps. Holmes couldn't retract his jab well and was forced to brawl.. But Norton had a blooping right counter that wasn't real sharp.. If Holmes were facing Anthony Joshua in that fight he would have been iced.. AJ's right counter is on you like a lioness on a pregnant gazelle.

[Ambling Alp II]

Nice excuse for some of Young's losses... He was on coke... Of course... What were his excuses for losing all those fights before he fought Foreman????

Young was thrown to the wolves. He fought some good competition when he was very inexperienced.
The only losses that he had in his prime were to Ali and Norton. The loss to Norton was a great fight in which he easily could have got the decision. He beat Foreman and also beat Lyle twice.

[BoxBuzz]

I don't they truly believed in Jimmy in the beginning....they started taking notice, and he was given some respect and rewarded with good matches.

But they did force him to sink or swim early....which is not usually how they treat their top guys.

You gotta hand it to him for pretty much proving them wrong and showing the world he really had top notch skills and abilities.

They threw King Kong at him, while Kong was on a rampage.....and he did just fine.

[Kalan]

Actually Buzz, King Kong would destroy Young...like he did to Bryant Jennings... King Kong Ortiz that is... 6'4" X 245... 25-0 and going strong at 37... Great boxer and great puncher... 360 amateur fights... Nobody wants to tangle with him... Young lasts 2 rounds tops with him.

With Lewis -- who also never fought a southpaw... I think King Kong knocks Lewis out in the Championship rounds... Lewis beats Young down in 6.

[BoxBuzz]

Actually Buzz, King Kong would destroy Young...like he did to Bryant Jennings... King Kong Ortiz that is... 6'4" X 245... 25-0 and going strong at 37... Great boxer and great puncher... 360 amateur fights... Nobody wants to tangle with him... Young lasts 2 rounds tops with him.

With Lewis -- who also never fought a southpaw... I think King Kong knocks Lewis out in the Championship rounds... Lewis beats Young down in 6.

I was using "King Kong" as a reference to Foreman in this case.

[Kalan]

Yeah I know.... But he never earned the nickname King Kong because he couldn't slip punches well and was easily outboxed... Lewis Ortiz slips and defends punches very well and is extremely difficult to outbox. A King Kong has to be an effective threat against a feather hitter like Young.

[BoxBuzz]

Well on this one I'm going to have to call you out.
One thing about King Kong, he couldn't avoid the incoming....whether by Tyrannosaurs, Prehistoric Pythons, Airplanes etc.
He was a sittin' duck.....he always had to use his offense in the end. Smashing all within his purview.
Until he finally reached those lofty New York heights, (heights that were even higher than uno-who) and the Air Force ultimately ended his story.