REMEMBER WHEN RIDDICK BOWE SIGNED TO FIGHT LENNOX LEWIS?

[Tuan_Jim]

What Kalan thinks contradicts all available evidence on a constant basis. Bowe didn't want to fight McCall and Mercer? These guys didn't even have a reputation in the 1990s and would be made massive underdogs if matched with Bowe. Bowe tried fight Mercer but Mercer lost to Ferguson who Bowe then decapped more thoroughly than Tyson managed. Bowe also beheaded Cooper immediately after Cooper rearranged Mercer's face.

[Kalan]

Bowe found time to fight such guys as Buster Mathis Jr (should have been DQ'd) Everett Martin, Conroy Nelson, Marcus Rhode, Billy Zumbrun -- and time to take 8 years off of Boxing when he reached the old age of 28... but he never found time to fight dangerous punchers like Lewis, Tyson, McCall, Mercer, Ruddock, or Tua... Bowe was really unlucky that these big punchers were never offered to him when he felt like fighting them... Not that he was scared of punchers

[Tuan_Jim]

If you followed boxing at the time you would know that when Tyson came out of prison there was huge appetite for a Bowe/Tyson fight - it was the only fight that mattered. Bowe & Newman & HBO wanted that fight - Tyson & King & Showtime not so much.

Kalan's every naive post further illustrates how his only understanding of boxing is what's written on the Boxrec record. He doesn't know anything outside it, not even the most rudimentary stuff. Anyone remember 93 when journalists groaned at Newman's mention of Oliver McCall as a possible challenger? I do.

[Kalan]

Right... and I guess they didn't moan about Buster Mathis Jr., who had all of 14 fights.. That was more appropriate since it was Bowe's 36th fight.

[Tuan_Jim]

Right... and I guess they didn't moan about Buster Mathis Jr., who had all of 14 fights.. That was more appropriate since it was Bowe's 36th fight.

Would you like me to prove it about McCall?

And yes, I remember Bowe fighting Mathis. It was a year before Lennox Lewis boxed Justin Fortune, who was 11-2-1. A delicious aside: Mathis Jr KOd Fortune.

[Kalan]

It's okay to fight Mathis Jr or Fortune... They were terrible, but they were professional boxers and you have to fight somebody to stay sharp and active... In the 3 years before Liston fought Ali (then Cassuius Clay) the first time Sonny only fought 3 times and saw less than 2 minutes of action for each fight...

You HAVE to fight terrible opponents.. If your opponents are surviving less than 2 rounds and you're barely getting hit, you need to schedule MORE fights with SOMEBODY.. It doesn't matter if nobody wants to fight you because you're big and bad.. you keep working the phone like Cus D'Amato and Jimmy Jacobs did for Mike Tyson.. You call tons of borderline opponents because some of them are going to be tougher than expected.. Every boxer needs actual competition and actual rounds of action to stay sharp.. Sonny Liston got less than 3 rounds of action in the 3 years before he fought Cassius Clay. A boxer who never gets any rounds to stay sharp and battle tested is screwed in a 12-round fight.. That's how you wind up with opponents like Fortune and Mathis because you need opponents.. There was never a lot of great competition in Heavyweight Boxing to begin with, so you just keep calling whoever might fight you because it's better than 2 years with no fights. Any opponent is better than no opponent.

However when you do CAN get a great and dangerous opponent like Lennox Lewis you don't toss your World Title Belt in the ashcan to DUCK him like a coward... That was the biggest money fight out there in Boxing -- and that DUCK JOB damaged Bowe's reputation and historical standing for all time.

[Tuan_Jim]

The dance of logic limbo continues. Bowe's reputation is only damaged among boxing fans who aren't in posession of the full facts - and who cares about them? Lennox Lewis getting 1-punch KOd in his prime, twice, in tite fights, is unheard of in elite level heavyweight boxing. Now that's damaging.

[Kalan]

Historically Lewis is ranked well over Bowe because he fought all his contemporaries who would get into a ring with him: Tyson, Holyfield, Mercer, Ruddock, Tua, Klitschko, Rahman, Grant, McCall etc., and he beat all of them...

Bowe is ranked well down historically because he ducked his contemporaries including the greatest of them, Lennox Lewis, in a very flagrant and newsworthy manner -- by publicly shlt-canning his World Title Belt rather than fight the huge and dangerous puncher who knocked him out for the Olympic Gold Medal.

[Tuan_Jim]

Historically Lewis is ranked well over Bowe because he fought all his contemporaries who would get into a ring with him: Tyson, Holyfield, Mercer, Ruddock, Tua, Klitschko, Rahman, Grant, McCall etc., and he beat all of them...

Bowe is ranked well down historically because he ducked his contemporaries including the greatest of them, Lennox Lewis, in a very flagrant and newsworthy manner -- by publicly shlt-canning his World Title Belt rather than fight the huge and dangerous puncher who knocked him out for the Olympic Gold Medal.

Nope. Best name on Lewis' record is the ageing Evander Holyfield, who Bowe beat convincingly, in Holyfield's prime, twice, in thrillers, even knocking him out once. Later on Lewis needed 24 rounds to finally squeeze a disputed win over a fading 37 year old Holyfield in two fights that were poorly received.

Lewis himself shlt-canned two World Title Belts, permanently fragmenting the title in the process, so he could duck Ruiz and Byrd and take easier fights. We all know he could have fought Bowe in 95 - if only he hadn't got himself 1-punch KOd by Oliver McCall. He could have fought Bowe in 96 for mega bucks but instead chose to get his face rearranged by Ray Mercer for chump change. Praising him for wins over a corpse Mike Tyson or a teenage Bowe (while Lewis was 23 and in his second Olympics) is laughable. The names you say Bowe ducked are fictions as easy to disprove as you are to embarrass.

[BoxBuzz]

In this writers opinion, they are both greats.

Lewis has bragging rights to the better career overall, based on time stamps.

For me....and of course this is purely subjective.....Bowe would have been a very bad night for Lewis anytime during their mutual primes. I would have bet rather confidently on Riddick.

And the general belief on behalf of the general public probably aligns closer with Kalan's accounts, but the facts of the matter in my opinion are far more aligned with Tuan_Jim.

Lewis's group did a better job managing the media.

[Kalan]

The general belief on behalf of the general public probably aligns closer with Kalan's accounts

You got 2 things right BuzzBox... The above and the fact that Lewis handled the media far better than doofus, brain-dead Bowe.

Lewis also did a better job of handling the clumsy and inept Foul Pole Andrew Golota... He smashed the dimwitted clown out in the 1st.

Golota beat the fuk out of Bowe. Knocked Bowe down repeatedly and beat his balls in. Bowe did well with cruiserweights. Lewis did well with Heavyweights.

[Kalan]

The public wasn’t interested in see Lewis fight stinky Ruiz or little lhw Chris Byrd... They would have been brutally 1-sided beating as Ibeabuchi, Wladimir and Tua proved. Lewis did the smart thing and nixed the untalented Ruiz and tiny, uncompetitive Byrd.

[Tuan_Jim]

Everyone thought Golota was a soft touch - which is why Bowe weighed in at a disgraceful 250+, and some writers suspected by fight time he was waddling about the ring at 260. Golota turned out to be a world class fighter and bashed Bowe around. Bowe's fault. Then Futch ditched him and Bowe overtrained for the rematch, unwisely getting down to 235 weeks before the fight and showing up looking "gaunt", according to Larry Merchant's up close observation. Still in spite of his handicap Bowe decked Golota, busted him up and shattered his jaw. He hung around long enough to force Golota to crack and look for the DQ - but no one ever underestimated Golota again.

Very much the same way no one was ever stupid enough to get in the way of Hasim Rahman's overhand right again...

All in all, when Bowe underestimated Holyfield he lost a razor thin decision in an all-time thriller. When Lewis underestimated McCall he got destroyed with 1 punch. When Bowe turned up out of shape for Golota he took a beating but stayed in there. When Lewis turned up out of shape for Rahman he got destroyed with 1 punch (again).

Lewis' glass chin & lack of recovery powers lengthened his career considerably. He didn't take big punches because he couldn't. Bowe with his chin, heart & balls stayed in there and took more than is healthy. But my god he gave us some fine dust ups!

[BoxBuzz]

Golata was psyche weak....but when he was present and accounted for.....he was formidable.

And when he wasn't he was a one man psyche ward.

Kalan writes the foul pole off far too easily. Because he probably doesn't pay attention to important details.

[gilgamesh]

Golata was psyche weak....but when he was present and accounted for.....he was formidable.

And when he wasn't he was a one man psyche ward.

Kalan writes the foul pole off far too easily. Because he probably doesn't pay attention to important details.

Yeah Golota was a solid fighter. If he had his head on straight he could've won a title. He's one of the better Heavyweights never to have won a title, and I thought he did deserve the WBA title in his fight with John Ruiz.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Holyfield ruined bowe.

[Kalan]

Golata was psyche weak....but when he was present and accounted for.....he was formidable.

And when he wasn't he was a one man psyche ward.

Kalan writes the foul pole off far too easily. Because he probably doesn't pay attention to important details.

Yeah Golota was a solid fighter. If he had his head on straight he could've won a title. He's one of the better Heavyweights never to have won a title, and I thought he did deserve the WBA title in his fight with John Ruiz.

Golota sucked petunia seeds... He was slow, clumsy, uncoordinated, cowardly, dense, and a sitting duck for anybody with size, strength, and power... Anybody like Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis, or Lamon Brewster crushed Golota inside a round... He was a disgrace. I've never seen such a dirty fighter.

[gilgamesh]

Golata was psyche weak....but when he was present and accounted for.....he was formidable.

And when he wasn't he was a one man psyche ward.

Kalan writes the foul pole off far too easily. Because he probably doesn't pay attention to important details.

Yeah Golota was a solid fighter. If he had his head on straight he could've won a title. He's one of the better Heavyweights never to have won a title, and I thought he did deserve the WBA title in his fight with John Ruiz.

Golota sucked petunia seeds... He was slow, clumsy, uncoordinated, cowardly, dense, and a sitting duck for anybody with size, strength, and power... Anybody like Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis, or Lamon Brewster crushed Golota inside a round... He was a disgrace. I've never seen such a dirty fighter.

No question he was as dirty as they come, but the guy had legitimate skills. He just didn't have the temperament to reach the peak of his ability. Once he started getting fatigued he resorted to biting people, low blows, and just about anything else you can think of. By the time he fought Chris Byrd and John Ruiz in 2004 he seemed to have his head on straight and didn't resort to fouling so easily anymore, but by the time he got his mind right his physical prime had passed him by.

[Kalan]

No man who gets in the ring with Holyfield 3 times can ever be called a coward

Bowe was a coward.. Holyfield was a Cruiserweight who weighed 205 for his 1st Bowe fight.. Bowe was too big for him and Bowe loved to bully Evander.. Bowe outweighed Holy about 30 pounds each fight.. Bowe stayed away from big, powerful brutes like Lennox Lewis, Razor Ruddock, Ray Mercer, Oliver McCall, David Tua, Michael Grant, and Frank Bruno... Tyson was a smaller Heavyweight, but he was a very hard puncher for his size.. Bowe was afraid of him.

Lewis wanted to fight anybody who was appropriate for him to fight---which were all of the above Heavyweights... He lined them all up but Bowe.

[gilgamesh]

No man who gets in the ring with Holyfield 3 times can ever be called a coward

Bowe was a coward.. Holyfield was a Cruiserweight who weighed 205 for his 1st Bowe fight.. Bowe was too big for him and Bowe loved to bully Evander.. Bowe outweighed Holy about 30 pounds each fight.. Bowe stayed away from big, powerful brutes like Lennox Lewis, Razor Ruddock, Ray Mercer, Oliver McCall, David Tua, Michael Grant, and Frank Bruno... Tyson was a smaller Heavyweight, but he was a very hard puncher for his size.. Bowe was afraid of him.

Lewis wanted to fight anybody who was appropriate for him to fight---which were all of the above Heavyweights... He lined them all up but Bowe.

Tua and Michael Grant had barely even made a name for themselves yet when Bowe was basically washed up and finished Boxing. I figure Bowe would've kicked Ruddock's ass. He probably would've beaten Mercer and McCall too, but they'd have been fun fights. Lennox Lewis would've stopped him again like he did in the amateurs, but more emphatically.

Bowe would've beaten Frank Bruno too.

I'm sure if Tyson wasn't in prison during the years of '93 and '94 Bowe would've jumped at the chance to fight him.

[BoxBuzz]

Golata was psyche weak....but when he was present and accounted for.....he was formidable.

And when he wasn't he was a one man psyche ward.

Kalan writes the foul pole off far too easily. Because he probably doesn't pay attention to important details.

Yeah Golota was a solid fighter. If he had his head on straight he could've won a title. He's one of the better Heavyweights never to have won a title, and I thought he did deserve the WBA title in his fight with John Ruiz.

.

Golota sucked petunia seeds...Not sure, don't have enough data on this accusation

He was slow, no...you need to take a look at the films....this is not accurate.

clumsy, on nights yes....and then there were his good nights.

uncoordinated, sort of a bad assessment here...but see above

cowardly, a weak mental state at times....your word does not quite capture the issue at all.

dense, seems goofily personal...but in the ring and at his best, he was not at all dense

and a sitting duck for anybody with size, strength, and power... Anybody like Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis, or Lamon Brewster crushed Golota inside a round... Mental issues..when psyched he was worthless.

He was a disgrace. Well those fouls could qualify.

I've never seen such a dirty fighter. I.M.H.O. He had mental issues, which compromised his ability to play by the rules


Your full of emotion in your analysis not sure it's as polished an assessment as I would expect from you. Pretty simplistic and one dimensional analysis.

[gilgamesh]

You're a real character Buzz

I love your posts.

[Kalan]

Yeah Golota was a solid fighter. If he had his head on straight he could've won a title. He's one of the better Heavyweights never to have won a title, and I thought he did deserve the WBA title in his fight with John Ruiz.

.

Golota sucked petunia seeds...Not sure, don't have enough data on this accusation

He was slow, no...you need to take a look at the films....this is not accurate.

clumsy, on nights yes....and then there were his good nights.

uncoordinated, sort of a bad assessment here...but see above

cowardly, a weak mental state at times....your word does not quite capture the issue at all.

dense, seems goofily personal...but in the ring and at his best, he was not at all dense

and a sitting duck for anybody with size, strength, and power... Anybody like Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis, or Lamon Brewster crushed Golota inside a round... Mental issues..when psyched he was worthless.

He was a disgrace. Well those fouls could qualify.

I've never seen such a dirty fighter. I.M.H.O. He had mental issues, which compromised his ability to play by the rules


Your full of emotion in your analysis not sure it's as polished an assessment as I would expect from you. Pretty simplistic and one dimensional analysis.

Put it this was BuzzBox... Golota sucked enough to get stopped by slow, awkward Michael Grant.... He was slow enough to get quickly knocked out by Tyson, Brewster, and Lewis.... He was uncoordinated enough to lose to less than athletic swinger John Ruiz.... He was cowardly enough to quit against Grant and Tyson

[man]

good thread. thnx OP for bringing
this up. i think it is very rare that
world class boxers fear others. one
example was peak mike tyson. aside
of that nothing obvious comes to
mind.

so it seems quite reasonable that
bow was not afraid. and why should
he be? it's not like bowe was humiliated
in seoul.

[Kalan]

Yeah Golota was a solid fighter. If he had his head on straight he could've won a title. He's one of the better Heavyweights never to have won a title, and I thought he did deserve the WBA title in his fight with John Ruiz.

.

Golota sucked petunia seeds...Not sure, don't have enough data on this accusation

He was slow, no...you need to take a look at the films....this is not accurate.

clumsy, on nights yes....and then there were his good nights.

uncoordinated, sort of a bad assessment here...but see above

cowardly, a weak mental state at times....your word does not quite capture the issue at all.

dense, seems goofily personal...but in the ring and at his best, he was not at all dense

and a sitting duck for anybody with size, strength, and power... Anybody like Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis, or Lamon Brewster crushed Golota inside a round... Mental issues..when psyched he was worthless.

He was a disgrace. Well those fouls could qualify.

I've never seen such a dirty fighter. I.M.H.O. He had mental issues, which compromised his ability to play by the rules


Your full of emotion in your analysis not sure it's as polished an assessment as I would expect from you. Pretty simplistic and one dimensional analysis.

One dimensional??? Golota was a multifaceted individual... He was slow... clumsy... uncoordinated... cowardly,.. dense... a sitting duck for Brewster, Lewis, and Tyson... a disgrace... and very dirty... They called him "The Foul Pole" after he battered Bowe's balls in... That's the first time I've seen somebody get hit 16 times in the nuts before his opponent was disqualified... The last 2 shots were particularly impressive.

Lewis said... "I'm going to knock him out before he has a chance to foul me." ... At least Golota wasn't as cowardly as Bowe. He did fight Lewis