James Toney vs Jimmy Young

[Cygnus475]

Since Young was fairly small we'll make this a 12 round cruiserweight clash.

Or we can just leave it at heavyweight if you want to use the Toney who iced Holyfield.

How do you see this ending?

[BoxBuzz]

Intriguing! I like the match up. I really have to consider this one.

does anyone see this as a slam dunk for either?

[Kalan]

Toney beats Young up... Like he did Holyfield pretty much, hooks to the short ribs... The corner told Toney, "He doesn't like those body shots." ... JT said, "Yeah, I know...I'm killing him." ... Toney did the same thing to Dominic Guinn but JT was pretty damned soft by then -- not the same Toney.

GGG would brutalize Young too.. An extremely tough and powerful Middleweight can get the leverage on a small, soft punching Heavyweight who's got 3 or 4 inches on him.. I've seen this play out in gyms... The concept is a bit like Jack Dempsey smashing the huge Willard.. Willard had a lot of size but no power.. Once Dempsey got into those ribs Willard was doomed.. It pays to have intimidating punching power if you're a Heavyweight and Young didn't.

[BoxBuzz]

Kalan I'm inclined to agree. Toney is one of my favorite fighters. So I hope I'm not just "favorite blind" here.

Are we talking the Toney that Beat Evander vs the Young, that for all intents and purposes out performed Ali? (I bet he regrets poking his head out of the ring...unless he needed to, to get out of the way of the incoming, because that likely cost him that fight.

[DrunkenBoxer]

JT biggest loss was to the mighty cheeseburger.

[BoxBuzz]

But in the ring he still fought well despite his out of the ring chronic losses to Big Macs and Whoppers....eating cheeseburger after cheeseburger, and still winning in boxing.

It wouldn't last, but after the Ruiz win....he could have been considered the original "Cheese Champ".

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Young by decision in a dreadful fight.

[Kalan]

Kalan I'm inclined to agree. Toney is one of my favorite fighters. So I hope I'm not just "favorite blind" here.

Are we talking the Toney that Beat Evander vs the Young, that for all intents and purposes out performed Ali? (I bet he regrets poking his head out of the ring...unless he needed to, to get out of the way of the incoming, because that likely cost him that fight.

Young hated pressure... He loved an opponent who would stand off and box like Foreman did... Toney would get in close and throw. Middleweight, Super Middleweight, Light Heavyweight, Cruiserweight, Heavyweight, it didn't matter.. If Toney were young enough he'd do Young in.. At a certain point the Toney who knocked out Nunn, Barkley, Jirov, and Holyfield was long gone.. The fat tub took over and he just wanted to be paid.

Toney weighed 157 for Michael Nunn and 257 for Damon Reed.. At 218 versus Holyfield he still looked vaguely like Toney.. At 257 he was the Buddha.

[ClivePatrickLyons]

Young at his best beats Toney by un dec who wasn't at his best at heavy or cruiser the naturally bigger man [Young] that was a very good mover beats a fat Toney at the 2 weight class's mentioned

[Kalan]

The Toney who fought Holyfield beats Young... Too damned tough and strong for the soft, and weakYoung. He'd rip his ribs out like he did Holy.

[Cygnus475]

Young hated pressure... He loved an opponent who would stand off and box like Foreman did

You have clearly never actually seen Foreman fight. He was a slugger not a long range outside fighter/boxer. Foreman was all about pressure, cutting the ring off and landing bombs.

GGG would brutalize Young too.. An extremely tough and powerful Middleweight can get the leverage on a small, soft punching Heavyweight who's got 3 or 4 inches on him.. I've seen this play out in gyms... The concept is a bit like Jack Dempsey smashing the huge Willard.. Willard had a lot of size but no power.. Once Dempsey got into those ribs Willard was doomed.. It pays to have intimidating punching power if you're a Heavyweight and Young didn't.

Young still has like 40-50 lbs over ggg and has taken punches from lyle, foreman, shavers, ali, and norton. Ggg's punches would feel like his 11 year old son rough housing him.

That was a stupid analogy with Dempsey and willard. They were in the same goddamn weight class. Young was at least four weight classes above golovkin.

Next time try not to post while drunk, although im making a big assumption here that you're even old enough to drink.

Young at his best beats Toney by un dec who wasn't at his best at heavy or cruiser the naturally bigger man [Young] that was a very good mover beats a fat Toney at the 2 weight class's mentioned

Toney wasn't at his best at heavy but he was still very slick and rarely took serious damage even in the fights he lost. Young will certainly have a hard time landing on him.

[Kalan]

Young still has like 40-50 lbs over ggg and has taken punches from lyle, foreman, shavers, ali, and norton. Ggg's punches would feel like his 11 year old son rough housing him.

That was a stupid analogy with Dempsey and willard. They were in the same goddamn weight class. Young was at least four weight classes above golovkin

Toney weighed 218 when he fought Holyfield, probably the last time Toney looked in half-ass shape... Young was a soft 211 who hit like a feather... GGG would add a lot of weight if he fought Young so the 11-year-old son analogy doesn't fly... Since an 11-year-old doesn't have almost 400 pro and amateur fights and ridiculous punching power... Holmes had a very rough time with Michael Spinks because---although he's a much bigger puncher than Young, Larry was NOT a big puncher for a Heavyweight... A big punching Heavyweight destroys Spinks with little effort... Toney or GGG wouldn't go against a big punching Heavyweight.. Neither did Roy Jones.. That would be a mistake.

Young was such a light hitter and had such a limited game that either GGG or Toney would murder him... as far as Dempsey and Willard being in the same weight class??? Willard had 45 pounds on Dempsey but a massive power deficit -- so it doesn't matter how big or tall Willard was. He couldn't hit.

[Cygnus475]

Young still has like 40-50 lbs over ggg and has taken punches from lyle, foreman, shavers, ali, and norton. Ggg's punches would feel like his 11 year old son rough housing him.

That was a stupid analogy with Dempsey and willard. They were in the same goddamn weight class. Young was at least four weight classes above golovkin

Toney weighed 218 when he fought Holyfield, probably the last time Toney looked in half-ass shape... Young was a soft 211 who hit like a feather... GGG would add a lot of weight if he fought Young so the 11-year-old son analogy doesn't fly... Since an 11-year-old doesn't have almost 400 pro and amateur fights and ridiculous punching power... Holmes had a very rough time with Michael Spinks because---although he's a much bigger puncher than Young, Larry was NOT a big puncher for a Heavyweight... A big punching Heavyweight destroys Spinks with little effort... Toney or GGG wouldn't go against a big punching Heavyweight.. Neither did Roy Jones.. That would be a mistake.

Young was such a light hitter and had such a limited game that either GGG or Toney would murder him... as far as Dempsey and Willard being in the same weight class??? Willard had 45 pounds on Dempsey but a massive power deficit -- so it doesn't matter how big or tall Willard was. He couldn't hit.

Once again, you demonstrate that you have no clue what you're talking about.

There's a thing called "natural weight". If a 5'8 guy with a 70" reach fights at welterweight throughout all his 20's and 30's and walks around at 160 ish 9/10 he would be extremely slow and/or fat if he tried to suddenly just "add weight" and fight at light heavy or cruiserweight. Any idiot can just add weight...it's called getting fat. There's a reason most boxers don't just jump up in weight classes, only the very best and elite can dominate more than 1 or 2.

Ggg wouldn't be effective at all at heavyweight. He's 34 and still able to make middleweight without looking like a skeleton and having power and stamina, which tells me there's no way in hell his natural weight is more than 180 ish due to BMI. He's also less than 6'0. He simply doesn't have the frame for it or we would have moved up years ago.

So yes, if he fought Young his punches wouldn't be very effective. Especially since, as I said, Young took blows from lyle, foreman, norton, etc without going down. It would be a repeat of Bob foster vs Ali and that's generous since foster was at least a light heavy.

Tony did fight big punching Heavyweights and remained on his feet, Hasim Rahman and Samuel Peter. Little bit of research goes a long way.

20/22 of Willard wins were k.os which of course includes the genius jack johnson. Dempsey simply slaughtering before he got a chancestry to land anything significant and get a rhythm going.

[Syntax Error]

I'm inclined to go with Youg on this one.

It would be a highly skilled fight, but I think it would be a bit boring.

I don't think Toney's performance against Holyfield is really relevant, as Evander was about 93 years old, plus he had a different skillset to Toney.

[Kalan]

Young still has like 40-50 lbs over ggg and has taken punches from lyle, foreman, shavers, ali, and norton. Ggg's punches would feel like his 11 year old son rough housing him.

That was a stupid analogy with Dempsey and willard. They were in the same goddamn weight class. Young was at least four weight classes above golovkin

Toney weighed 218 when he fought Holyfield, probably the last time Toney looked in half-ass shape... Young was a soft 211 who hit like a feather... GGG would add a lot of weight if he fought Young so the 11-year-old son analogy doesn't fly... Since an 11-year-old doesn't have almost 400 pro and amateur fights and ridiculous punching power... Holmes had a very rough time with Michael Spinks because---although he's a much bigger puncher than Young, Larry was NOT a big puncher for a Heavyweight... A big punching Heavyweight destroys Spinks with little effort... Toney or GGG wouldn't go against a big punching Heavyweight.. Neither did Roy Jones.. That would be a mistake.

Young was such a light hitter and had such a limited game that either GGG or Toney would murder him... as far as Dempsey and Willard being in the same weight class??? Willard had 45 pounds on Dempsey but a massive power deficit -- so it doesn't matter how big or tall Willard was. He couldn't hit.

Once again, you demonstrate that you have no clue what you're talking about.

There's a thing called "natural weight". If a 5'8 guy with a 70" reach fights at welterweight throughout all his 20's and 30's and walks around at 160 ish 9/10 he would be extremely slow and/or fat if he tried to suddenly just "add weight" and fight at light heavy or cruiserweight. Any idiot can just add weight...it's called getting fat. There's a reason most boxers don't just jump up in weight classes, only the very best and elite can dominate more than 1 or 2.

Ggg wouldn't be effective at all at heavyweight. He's 34 and still able to make middleweight without looking like a skeleton and having power and stamina, which tells me there's no way in hell his natural weight is more than 180 ish due to BMI. He's also less than 6'0. He simply doesn't have the frame for it or we would have moved up years ago.

So yes, if he fought Young his punches wouldn't be very effective. Especially since, as I said, Young took blows from lyle, foreman, norton, etc without going down. It would be a repeat of Bob foster vs Ali and that's generous since foster was at least a light heavy.

Tony did fight big punching Heavyweights and remained on his feet, Hasim Rahman and Samuel Peter. Little bit of research goes a long way.

20/22 of Willard wins were k.os which of course includes the genius jack johnson. Dempsey simply slaughtering before he got a chancestry to land anything significant and get a rhythm going.

Willard didn't have any rhythm or power. Willard fought cherries. For instance, he padded his KO record by fighting novice Bull Young 3 times. He stopped a bunch of crude swingers, but wasn't going stop Moran, Dempsey, Morris, McCarty, Pelkey, or Smith... Johnson??? That fight, was scheduled for 45 rounds. Why such a strange distance? Johnson said legal documents had to be transferred and examined by his lawyer and wife. Johnson was fat and out-of-shape and said he tanked the fight to end his fugitive status. Such a great athlete would be in good shape for a 45-round fight World Title Fight if he intended to win -- so a fix sounds plausible.

GGG wouldn't be effective against powerful heavyweights like AJ -- but he'd destroy a feather hitter like Young...and so would Toney.. They're way too skilled and too powerful for the weak Young.. Young could finesse punchers who weren't skilled boxers, and evade their punches.. Holyfield was able to dominate Lou Saverese, who went 36-0 to start his career.. Saverese was big, strong Heavyweight, but as inept as Jess Willard.. Evander was completely finessed and overpowered by natural Middleweight James Toney -- who used his smaller size and better leverage to rip Holyfield's ribs out. Big Heavyweights like Larry Donald, Saverese, Valuev, and Ibragimov couldn't beat on Evander quite as efficiently after Toney softened him up.

Peter and Rahman weren't extremely dangerous Heavyweights -- and Vitali Klitschko and Lennox Lewis proved that beyond a doubt.. Lewis was hit by a lottery shot in the 1st Rahaman fight.. China-chinned plodder Oleg Maskaev knocked Rahman out twice to show how inept and impotent Rahman was.