Froch v Westerman

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 20 Feb 2006, 17:36

THEBUTCH wrote:First thing that strikes about all the posts here is I can't see ONE positive comment (sorry if I missed it) about Froch's ability to hold a punch. "Can't take a punch" etc is usually a favourite label posters like to slap on boxers as soon they show the slightest vulnerability.

Well rightly or wrongly (and I too go for wrongly) Carl withstood some hard shots several times and came through them with payback! The sign of a tough competitor who will take some beating.

His defence in the early going was poor, no question about it. He was casual, but he simply knew he had the beating of Westerman and would grind him down sooner or later and Froch proved this.

Of course if he takes the same casual/arrogant attitude with him as he moves up he will probably pay the price. He won't be the first or the last to do this.

When everyone has stopped slagging the guy and looking for every possible fault in him whilst ignoring the positives that are also visible, it was actually a reasonable enough fight for the fans. It certainly wasn't devoid of highlights like Brian Magee fights.

Froch got it spot on (IM) in the post fight interview, Magee maybe an infinitely better boxer than Westerman but he won't stand up to the same shots that Carl will catch him with.

But Westerman was a non-puncher... if Froch had been in with a big puncher it would have been a different story...

THEBUTCH · Post by **THEBUTCH** » 21 Feb 2006, 09:03

Fair enough if you see it that way, but Westerman looked to me as if he packed fair power in his fists. "Non-puncher" seems a bit harsh.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 21 Feb 2006, 09:10

He looked to have OK power but his technique was not that good. Froch will get knocked out by the first world class puncher he faces.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 21 Feb 2006, 09:21

THEBUTCH wrote:Fair enough if you see it that way, but Westerman looked to me as if he packed fair power in his fists. "Non-puncher" seems a bit harsh.

Westerman was throwing arm punches mostly and didnt have many koes on his record. He was also pretty small even for a supermiddle and is probably a natural Middleweight really. Carl needs to realize that you don't gain titles for taking punches you shouldn't be taking and every punch you take brings you closer to the end of your career...

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 21 Feb 2006, 17:06

My respect went up for Magee ten fold after the night was out, he was dignified and didn't talk shit just gave his views honestly and respectfully and made Froch look a bit of a twat. I usually enjoy Froch's ramblings, for some reason he amuses me but after the Westerman fight i just thought he sounded a bit of a knob. He seems to need to trash talk to gee himself up, maybe he is talking himself round to believing he is better than he actually is. His hands down style won;t work at the highest level, i and many others have been saying this from fight one. It's not too late to change but he never will, he clearly doesn't pay any attention to McCracken. I agree with Kilburn, McCracken can't just make a passing comment in between rounds about keeping the hands high. He needs to get him in the gym and sort his cocky arse out.

As for the fight, Westerman was tough and game but i was surprised at his reputation as a puncher, he has campaigned as a Light Heavy but he was clearly fleshy even at SM as he was up at LH versus Nishizawa. Froch's defence is so poor and his attitude is poorer, shame because he has ability. I think Magee may well beat him and if not he is an accident waiting to happen as he steps up levels.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 22 Feb 2006, 08:00

steve689 wrote:My respect went up for Magee ten fold after the night was out, he was dignified and didn't talk shit just gave his views honestly and respectfully and made Froch look a bit of a twat. I usually enjoy Froch's ramblings, for some reason he amuses me but after the Westerman fight i just thought he sounded a bit of a knob. He seems to need to trash talk to gee himself up, maybe he is talking himself round to believing he is better than he actually is. His hands down style won;t work at the highest level, i and many others have been saying this from fight one. It's not too late to change but he never will, he clearly doesn't pay any attention to McCracken. I agree with Kilburn, McCracken can't just make a passing comment in between rounds about keeping the hands high. He needs to get him in the gym and sort his cocky arse out.

As for the fight, Westerman was tough and game but i was surprised at his reputation as a puncher, he has campaigned as a Light Heavy but he was clearly fleshy even at SM as he was up at LH versus Nishizawa. Froch's defence is so poor and his attitude is poorer, shame because he has ability. I think Magee may well beat him and if not he is an accident waiting to happen as he steps up levels.

I respect the fact that Froch has gone the traditional route and picked up decent titles and his confidence/arrogance was ok up to a point when he is putting in the impressive performances, but for me he has been disapointing in at least his last 3 fights and yet his arrogance just seems to grow as his performances have dipped, he really needs to take a look at himself as he is in danger of losing touch with reality in a manner simular to Audely Harrison...

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 22 Feb 2006, 12:45

silkov wrote:his arrogance just seems to grow as his performances have dipped, he really needs to take a look at himself as he is in danger of losing touch with reality in a manner simular to Audely Harrison...

I totally agree with you Silkov, if he was blowing men away with ease then fair enough. Beforehand he said something along the lines of "If i am going to be a world champion like i believe i can be then i need to deal with people like Westerman with relative ease" I think he answered his own question with the sunsequent performance.

THEBUTCH · Post by **THEBUTCH** » 22 Feb 2006, 12:55

Hmmm, but did Froch ever look like he wasn't going to win ? Even with a bicep injury.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 22 Feb 2006, 13:15

THEBUTCH wrote:Hmmm, but did Froch ever look like he wasn't going to win ? Even with a bicep injury.

Thats not the point really, he certainly looked like he was ready for the taking if he fought like that against a puncher. He should still get past Magee but if Froch goes into world class with the same attitude he will be beaten eventually.

THEBUTCH · Post by **THEBUTCH** » 23 Feb 2006, 07:30

Depends on where you're coming from. For me, that IS exactly the point. He WAS in the ring with Westerman, not Magee or Lacy or anyone else for that matter.

So the way I'm seeing things Froch was below his best form, took some crunching shots in the early going and took them well, picked up a pretty testing injury during the fight and didn't panic at all or show any signs of quitting or easing up, then picked up the pace and forced a stoppage.

Westerman was no way a "non-puncher", if your comparing him to Lacy then of course he is but that seems pointless becuase Lacy is not next in line for some time.

Measuring the performance against world class will throw up some of the negatives people have spotted, but Magee is not world class and I'm certain Carl will take care if him one way or another.

Another important point is at least Froch is boxing Magee for his British title...giving the fight and the fans an honest reflection of what is taking place. Not so long ago Calzaghe was going to pass off his post-poned bout with Magee as a "world title" fight.

The same applies to the Westerman fight. It was a Commonwealt title fight, nothing less, nothing more. I've seen worse fights and challengers box for supposed "world titles" in this country several times. The fans got a fair deal from Froch in my opinion.