Wasn't Tex Cobb counted out in one round by journeyman Dee Collier??Decagon wrote:You can't put Braddock on there, because he didn't really face too many big punchers. Really, the only huge punchers he faced were Joe Louis (who knocked him out) and Max Baer (who, later that year, lost to a fighter making his pro debut). It's an insult to put Jim Braddock in the same topic as Tex Cobb, Jake LaMotta, Rocky Marciano and Marvin Hagler. In 300 combined fights, none of those men were knocked out.Rory McCloskey wrote:nice of everyone to leave out James J Braddock who haad over 80 proffesional fights and was only knocked out once. that was by none other then Joe Louis.
Greatest Chins In Boxing?
8)Hey Rory nice to have you back mateRory McCloskey wrote:nice of everyone to leave out James J Braddock who haad over 80 proffesional fights and was only knocked out once. that was by none other then Joe Louis.
I'm half way through reading Cinderella Man by our very own Mike DeLisa.
Good book aint it.
Decagon......You know sometimes I'm pretty sharp, and then there is all the other times. What threw me was the 3X over aspect. But my guess is there was a software glitch as there have been many double and triple posts today. I've had to delete a few. I'm leaving your triple swan dive though....it adds ambience to the thread.
Check out his record on this site. And I'm sure there were many others. I'm not denying Robinson had an excellent chin, but it was his other abilities which accounted for his durability. Compare him to Hagler, who was never floored as an amateur or professional - that's 124 fights, and he fought a lot more big punchers than Robinson.Jaclem wrote:..doubleM....please favor us with a list of those many knockdowns the sugar man suffered in his career. thank you.
..double m...no, i am not going to do your work for you. i know who knocked robinson down, and when...and i don't need to check box rec. i am asking YOU to tell me who, when and at what stage in robinson's career they happened.
incidentally, i DO look at box rec from time to time, but only to check its accuracy, not mine.
incidentally, i DO look at box rec from time to time, but only to check its accuracy, not mine.
..buzzy...i am assuming the lady in mid-air is a metaphor for the dive you still don't think sharkey too.
decagon....yeah, max lost to artie oliver who was making his pro debut.....but this tells nothing about baer's punch or chin..it tells about maxie's mental state at the time...maxie was kind of nuts...and wonderfully so.
decagon....yeah, max lost to artie oliver who was making his pro debut.....but this tells nothing about baer's punch or chin..it tells about maxie's mental state at the time...maxie was kind of nuts...and wonderfully so.
Huh?Jaclem wrote:..double m...no, i am not going to do your work for you. i know who knocked robinson down, and when...and i don't need to check box rec. i am asking YOU to tell me who, when and at what stage in robinson's career they happened.
incidentally, i DO look at box rec from time to time, but only to check its accuracy, not mine.
Yea... Anyway - just check it out some more. I can't be bothered to look again, but I'd guess Robinson has twenty documented accounts of being floored.
re
>>>You can't put Braddock on there, because he didn't really face too many big punchers. Really, the only huge punchers he faced were Joe Louis (who knocked him out) and Max Baer (who, later that year, lost to a fighter making his pro debut). It's an insult to put Jim Braddock in the same topic as Tex Cobb, Jake LaMotta, Rocky Marciano and Marvin Hagler. In 300 combined fights, none of those men were knocked out.<<<
Again, and as usual you speak on that which you have no clue about! Braddock fought several big punchers, which I'm not even including hard hitters, just the big hitters:
Leo Lomski
Al Gainer
Charley Retzlaff
John Henry Lewis
Al Stillman
Art Lasky
Max Baer
Joe Louis
All the above were vicious punchers! Then there were others who could knock out anyone they hit. Guys like:
Tuffy Griffith
Billy Jones
Vic McLaughlin
Paul Swiderski
Joe Sekyra
Jimmy Slattery
Ernie Schaaf
Jack Roper
And I thought that you said that you liked this era. Looks like if that was the case then you would try to actually learn something about it! Hell, Retzlaff hit as hard as Louis, or Baer and the others are not real far off!
Braddock did not have the melon blockhead that Cobb and LaMotta had, but then again, no other fighters do, or did either! That was just a pretty dumb comparison to try to make, but then again I have to keep in mind that it was you who made the comment!
Again, and as usual you speak on that which you have no clue about! Braddock fought several big punchers, which I'm not even including hard hitters, just the big hitters:
Leo Lomski
Al Gainer
Charley Retzlaff
John Henry Lewis
Al Stillman
Art Lasky
Max Baer
Joe Louis
All the above were vicious punchers! Then there were others who could knock out anyone they hit. Guys like:
Tuffy Griffith
Billy Jones
Vic McLaughlin
Paul Swiderski
Joe Sekyra
Jimmy Slattery
Ernie Schaaf
Jack Roper
And I thought that you said that you liked this era. Looks like if that was the case then you would try to actually learn something about it! Hell, Retzlaff hit as hard as Louis, or Baer and the others are not real far off!
Braddock did not have the melon blockhead that Cobb and LaMotta had, but then again, no other fighters do, or did either! That was just a pretty dumb comparison to try to make, but then again I have to keep in mind that it was you who made the comment!
More like 7 actually and when you look at who he fought this is hardly a disgrace. I think its very debatable that Hagler fought the harder punchers too... Robinson fought the best of two divisions and came close to winning a 3rd title and was never let down by his chin... I'd still say that he had a great chin...DoubleM wrote:Huh?Jaclem wrote:..double m...no, i am not going to do your work for you. i know who knocked robinson down, and when...and i don't need to check box rec. i am asking YOU to tell me who, when and at what stage in robinson's career they happened.
incidentally, i DO look at box rec from time to time, but only to check its accuracy, not mine.
Yea... Anyway - just check it out some more. I can't be bothered to look again, but I'd guess Robinson has twenty documented accounts of being floored.
Re: re
barry wrote:>>>You can't put Braddock on there, because he didn't really face too many big punchers. Really, the only huge punchers he faced were Joe Louis (who knocked him out) and Max Baer (who, later that year, lost to a fighter making his pro debut). It's an insult to put Jim Braddock in the same topic as Tex Cobb, Jake LaMotta, Rocky Marciano and Marvin Hagler. In 300 combined fights, none of those men were knocked out.<<<
Again, and as usual you speak on that which you have no clue about! Braddock fought several big punchers, which I'm not even including hard hitters, just the big hitters:
Leo Lomski
Al Gainer
Charley Retzlaff
John Henry Lewis
Al Stillman
Art Lasky
Max Baer
Joe Louis
All the above were vicious punchers! Then there were others who could knock out anyone they hit. Guys like:
Tuffy Griffith
Billy Jones
Vic McLaughlin
Paul Swiderski
Joe Sekyra
Jimmy Slattery
Ernie Schaaf
Jack Roper
And I thought that you said that you liked this era. Looks like if that was the case then you would try to actually learn something about it! Hell, Retzlaff hit as hard as Louis, or Baer and the others are not real far off!
Braddock did not have the melon blockhead that Cobb and LaMotta had, but then again, no other fighters do, or did either! That was just a pretty dumb comparison to try to make, but then again I have to keep in mind that it was you who made the comment!
Not that Braddocks "toughness" rating needs defending but he avoided being knocked down at times when he literally had no offense because of the condition of his hands. We may not want to rate him up there with LaMotta because I can't think of a time when Braddock was openly interested in showing or advertizing to everyone how he liked to be hit. (Perhaps a Lamotta and McCall exclusive) But he took it well when it got dished out.
I have to say he preferred to avoid being hit and you can add he had fair elusive ability, but when that failed him for whatever reason, his chin was about as good a back up defense mechanism as anyone ever had.
Maybe the question "who actually enjoyed being hit" is good fodder for a thread. There were a few more masochists besides Lamotta and McCall.
Braddock did not invite bad times like some of these charachters but he was built out of the right kind of stuff that when bad times came along, he could hang in there like nobody else. I'm not just talking boxing here.
Robinson was floored many more times than seven... Jeez.silkov wrote:More like 7 actually and when you look at who he fought this is hardly a disgrace. I think its very debatable that Hagler fought the harder punchers too... Robinson fought the best of two divisions and came close to winning a 3rd title and was never let down by his chin... I'd still say that he had a great chin...DoubleM wrote:Huh?Jaclem wrote:..double m...no, i am not going to do your work for you. i know who knocked robinson down, and when...and i don't need to check box rec. i am asking YOU to tell me who, when and at what stage in robinson's career they happened.
incidentally, i DO look at box rec from time to time, but only to check its accuracy, not mine.
Yea... Anyway - just check it out some more. I can't be bothered to look again, but I'd guess Robinson has twenty documented accounts of being floored.
Hagler quite easily faced the bigger punchers. It's not debatable at all. Hart knocked out a young, heavyweight Tim Witherspoon in sparring. Mugabi was said to have hit like a heavyweight. Hearns was a knockout artist. But of course it doesn't end there. Hagler faced plenty of other bombers such as Roldan, Obelmejias, Cabrera and Briscoe.
Well jeez! tell me when, cause the Box rec record shows 7 times...DoubleM wrote:Robinson was floored many more times than seven... Jeez.silkov wrote:More like 7 actually and when you look at who he fought this is hardly a disgrace. I think its very debatable that Hagler fought the harder punchers too... Robinson fought the best of two divisions and came close to winning a 3rd title and was never let down by his chin... I'd still say that he had a great chin...DoubleM wrote: Huh?
Yea... Anyway - just check it out some more. I can't be bothered to look again, but I'd guess Robinson has twenty documented accounts of being floored.
Hagler quite easily faced the bigger punchers. It's not debatable at all. Hart knocked out a young, heavyweight Tim Witherspoon in sparring. Mugabi was said to have hit like a heavyweight. Hearns was a knockout artist. But of course it doesn't end there. Hagler faced plenty of other bombers such as Roldan, Obelmejias, Cabrera and Briscoe.
Robinson fought just as many heavy punchers as Hagler... are you really comparing the likes of Obelmejias to the fighters Robinson faced!!
Uh, no I'm not, but I am comparing their power. Tell me these bone crunching hitters Robinson faced.silkov wrote:Well jeez! tell me when, cause the Box rec record shows 7 times...DoubleM wrote:Robinson was floored many more times than seven... Jeez.silkov wrote: More like 7 actually and when you look at who he fought this is hardly a disgrace. I think its very debatable that Hagler fought the harder punchers too... Robinson fought the best of two divisions and came close to winning a 3rd title and was never let down by his chin... I'd still say that he had a great chin...
Hagler quite easily faced the bigger punchers. It's not debatable at all. Hart knocked out a young, heavyweight Tim Witherspoon in sparring. Mugabi was said to have hit like a heavyweight. Hearns was a knockout artist. But of course it doesn't end there. Hagler faced plenty of other bombers such as Roldan, Obelmejias, Cabrera and Briscoe.
Robinson fought just as many heavy punchers as Hagler... are you really comparing the likes of Obelmejias to the fighters Robinson faced!!
Actually you're right about Boxrec's listings of Robinson's knockdowns, I apologize. Only seven are mentioned. But I also understand he was also down at least twice within the LaMotta series, and was staggered and hurt on numerous other occasions.
..double m..now i see that some of robinson's knockdowns have been changed to "being staggered." no...i do not have to check boxrec ...and i don't think the times of being knocked down tell us that much about his chin. some of them came when he was fighting way past his prime. in his very last fight he was knocked down by the light hitting joey archer. when in his prime one of the knockdowns...and near knockouts was scored by artie levine...a very hard hitting middle weight/light heavy and the sugar man was a welterweight. robinson got up and kayoed levine.
just use common sense and look at the total record. stopped once...in that long long career....and it wasn't because of an ordinary chin. nobody with a record like that is so clever he doesn't get hit much. he had a great chin....one of the best. (re: the lamotta knockdowns...in one fight it was caused by a barrage to the body that nearly put robinson through the ropes. i know he was knocked down in one of the other fights.....but i don't know the details. it could have been from a light jab to the jaw as far as i know....and so what? again...look at the over all record.
and while i'm here, i'm going to add billy graham to the good chin list.
just use common sense and look at the total record. stopped once...in that long long career....and it wasn't because of an ordinary chin. nobody with a record like that is so clever he doesn't get hit much. he had a great chin....one of the best. (re: the lamotta knockdowns...in one fight it was caused by a barrage to the body that nearly put robinson through the ropes. i know he was knocked down in one of the other fights.....but i don't know the details. it could have been from a light jab to the jaw as far as i know....and so what? again...look at the over all record.
and while i'm here, i'm going to add billy graham to the good chin list.
The knockdowns to Lamotta are included on BoxRec... you can hardly hold knockdowns to the likes of Lammotta and Levine against Ray. As for him being staggered in other fights so what?... being staggered is not being kncoked down. You really need to study Rays career more if you think he didn't face big punchers Double M...
Hang on - I've not even stated Robinson has an ordinary chin. Infact I do think he had a great chin. So I don't know what you're all getting so wound up about.Jaclem wrote:..double m..now i see that some of robinson's knockdowns have been changed to "being staggered." no...i do not have to check boxrec ...and i don't think the times of being knocked down tell us that much about his chin. some of them came when he was fighting way past his prime. in his very last fight he was knocked down by the light hitting joey archer. when in his prime one of the knockdowns...and near knockouts was scored by artie levine...a very hard hitting middle weight/light heavy and the sugar man was a welterweight. robinson got up and kayoed levine.
just use common sense and look at the total record. stopped once...in that long long career....and it wasn't because of an ordinary chin. nobody with a record like that is so clever he doesn't get hit much. he had a great chin....one of the best. (re: the lamotta knockdowns...in one fight it was caused by a barrage to the body that nearly put robinson through the ropes. i know he was knocked down in one of the other fights.....but i don't know the details. it could have been from a light jab to the jaw as far as i know....and so what? again...look at the over all record.
and while i'm here, i'm going to add billy graham to the good chin list.
Silkov, instead of just telling me I should do this and that, why don't you tell me these mind numbing punchers Robinson faced.
What are you going on about?... you said from the start that Ray didnt have a great chin and that he'd been down at least 20 times... why don't you tell me all the times that he was down that haven't been listed by Boxrec??...DoubleM wrote:Hang on - I've not even stated Robinson has an ordinary chin. Infact I do think he had a great chin. So I don't know what you're all getting so wound up about.Jaclem wrote:..double m..now i see that some of robinson's knockdowns have been changed to "being staggered." no...i do not have to check boxrec ...and i don't think the times of being knocked down tell us that much about his chin. some of them came when he was fighting way past his prime. in his very last fight he was knocked down by the light hitting joey archer. when in his prime one of the knockdowns...and near knockouts was scored by artie levine...a very hard hitting middle weight/light heavy and the sugar man was a welterweight. robinson got up and kayoed levine.
just use common sense and look at the total record. stopped once...in that long long career....and it wasn't because of an ordinary chin. nobody with a record like that is so clever he doesn't get hit much. he had a great chin....one of the best. (re: the lamotta knockdowns...in one fight it was caused by a barrage to the body that nearly put robinson through the ropes. i know he was knocked down in one of the other fights.....but i don't know the details. it could have been from a light jab to the jaw as far as i know....and so what? again...look at the over all record.
and while i'm here, i'm going to add billy graham to the good chin list.
Silkov, instead of just telling me I should do this and that, why don't you tell me these mind numbing punchers Robinson faced.
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Jaime Garza
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 11
- Joined: 25 Feb 2006, 15:32
Get your facts straight, and I'll set out to correct mine. I never said Robinson didn't have a great chin. I just said he didn't have a great chin in the same calibre as others such as McCall, Hagler, Chuvalo and LaMotta.silkov wrote:What are you going on about?... you said from the start that Ray didnt have a great chin and that he'd been down at least 20 times... why don't you tell me all the times that he was down that haven't been listed by Boxrec??...DoubleM wrote:Hang on - I've not even stated Robinson has an ordinary chin. Infact I do think he had a great chin. So I don't know what you're all getting so wound up about.Jaclem wrote:..double m..now i see that some of robinson's knockdowns have been changed to "being staggered." no...i do not have to check boxrec ...and i don't think the times of being knocked down tell us that much about his chin. some of them came when he was fighting way past his prime. in his very last fight he was knocked down by the light hitting joey archer. when in his prime one of the knockdowns...and near knockouts was scored by artie levine...a very hard hitting middle weight/light heavy and the sugar man was a welterweight. robinson got up and kayoed levine.
just use common sense and look at the total record. stopped once...in that long long career....and it wasn't because of an ordinary chin. nobody with a record like that is so clever he doesn't get hit much. he had a great chin....one of the best. (re: the lamotta knockdowns...in one fight it was caused by a barrage to the body that nearly put robinson through the ropes. i know he was knocked down in one of the other fights.....but i don't know the details. it could have been from a light jab to the jaw as far as i know....and so what? again...look at the over all record.
and while i'm here, i'm going to add billy graham to the good chin list.
Silkov, instead of just telling me I should do this and that, why don't you tell me these mind numbing punchers Robinson faced.
Look at this:
"I can't be bothered to look again, but I'd guess Robinson has twenty documented accounts of being floored."
That's my writing. I didn't say Robinson was floored 'at least' twenty times, it was an estimate. I was wrong, I admitted it, and I apologized. I was confusing occasions where Robinson was hurt or staggered and added them to the tally, though it must be known that it's been about three weeks since I was last on Robinson's record.
Don't try and alter my words to make me sound bad, Silkov. Now I'll ask you again - can you tell me who these huge hitters are, who Robinson faced?
Tell me the other 13 times he was down and I'll do a list for you of all the big punchers he faced... after all you were the one saying that he was down 'at least 20 times' your words, ....why don't you back up this with some evidence??......DoubleM wrote:Get your facts straight, and I'll set out to correct mine. I never said Robinson didn't have a great chin. I just said he didn't have a great chin in the same calibre as others such as McCall, Hagler, Chuvalo and LaMotta.silkov wrote:What are you going on about?... you said from the start that Ray didnt have a great chin and that he'd been down at least 20 times... why don't you tell me all the times that he was down that haven't been listed by Boxrec??...DoubleM wrote: Hang on - I've not even stated Robinson has an ordinary chin. Infact I do think he had a great chin. So I don't know what you're all getting so wound up about.
Silkov, instead of just telling me I should do this and that, why don't you tell me these mind numbing punchers Robinson faced.
Look at this:
"I can't be bothered to look again, but I'd guess Robinson has twenty documented accounts of being floored."
That's my writing. I didn't say Robinson was floored 'at least' twenty times, it was an estimate. I was wrong, I admitted it, and I apologized. I was confusing occasions where Robinson was hurt or staggered and added them to the tally, though it must be known that it's been about three weeks since I was last on Robinson's record.
Don't try and alter my words to make me sound bad, Silkov. Now I'll ask you again - can you tell me who these huge hitters are, who Robinson faced?