thoughts on GGG ??

[Enlightened-One]

I really don't know why people are disputing the 164lb stipulation (regardless of whether contract negotiations did or didn't take place), when you can see these men say those words.

More bullsh*t from fergus ...

Skip to the 7 second mark:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgh-lkgDpYg
Skip to the 6 minute 54 second mark:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXZlSTDHcXA


"Golovkin's Coach: Andre Ward Must Go to 164 or No Fight":
http://www.BS.com/golovkins-co ... ght--93850
"We don't need Ward. Golovkin doesn't need Ward. Dawson needed Ward. The fact that he made Dawson come down to 168 kind of irks me. When [Golovkin's promoter] Tom [Loeffler] said 50-50, and me and Tom talked about it, he meant 50-50 all the way across. That was the reason why I said 50-50 and 50-50 means 164 - right in the middle. If they want the fight, come to what Golovkin is aking for," Abel Sanchez told BS.com.

"I don't think Ward should have a problem making 164. He talked about fighting Mayweather at 160. Why is he talking about fighting Mayweather at 160 if he's not willing to fight Gennady at 164?"

"If they thought that it was in their best interest to fight Gennady at 164, then fight him - or else they can go about their way. For us, Golovkin is the A-fighter in this situation and I don't care what anybody says. It's not like Golovkin is asking him to come down to 160, like [Golovkin] was going to do for Mayweather and go to 154. We're asking him to meet us halfway. If he doesn't want to, that's okay - we'll just go on to the next one."

And if Ward holds the line at 168?

"Then tell Ward to go somewhere else. We don't need Ward. That would be my response to Tom, if Tom came to me with that," Sanchez said.

"What it will take to make Ward-Golovkin":
http://www.espn.com/blog/dan-rafael/pos ... ard-vs-ggg
“GGG is now clearly the ‘A’ side yet Ward still would want to dictate terms, which makes no sense,” Loeffler said. “GGG would fight Ward on a 50-50 basis, the best 160-pounder versus the best 168-pounder [at] 164 [and] a 50-50 split on all proceeds. But it seems like Ward needs more tuneup fights.”

"Dougie's Friday mailbag":
http://ringtv.craveonline.com/news/3945 ... ailbag-216
Doug Fischer stated the following:

"I did ask Loeffler about the supposed catch-weight “offer” to Team Ward... Loeffler said he had an email conversation with Dan Rafael, who asked him what it would take to make a GGG-Ward match, and he proposed the 164-pound catchweight and 50-50 money split as a possibility..."

Skip to the 7 minute 20 second mark of this video to see Golovkin himself make the 164lb catchweight stipulation for him to face Ward:
http://cms.springboardplatform.com/embe ... .com/10/1/

Golovkin said: “My focus is 160, this is just for me; my goal is all the belts. And Andre? I don’t know. I don’t understand. He is 168 or 175 or like 174. I don’t know for him. I think for everybody, for business… he’s 168, I’m 160, I think the middle is very correct for him and for me. Not 160, not 168; 164 is very correct for everybody. Like 50-50 money, 50-50 situation…

[Enlightened-One]

In addition to all the information detailed in my previous post on this thread (the one immediately before this one), here’s another video of Golovkin demanding catchweight stipulations to face Ward.

Skip to the 4 minutes and 45 second mark:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXxX88xRpfg

“He [Ward] wants 50-50. He wants the fight with me. Absolutely, I’m ready. Right now, he’s not boxed for two years. His situation is not perfect for the fight. I think my situation is much better. Get in a fight, 50-50 money [and] 50-50 weight.”

[jewboypgh]

He's the best in years. Can't think of anyone really remotely even close. He demolishing guys on another level

[caldo2025]

None of the posts submitted by in this thread have claimed this.

Golovkin can earn "greatness" if he chooses to remain as a middleweight.

However, Team GGG have regularly and persistently claimed that Golovkin is easily capable and willing to face any fighters competing from 154lbs to 175lbs... and that's where the bigger names and greater challenges lie, but despite this own claims, he's only ever competed at 160lbs.

I don't believe that anyone really dwelled on the Hagler comparison. In my mind, Golovkin is the best middleweight since Hopkins.

In terms of your ciriticism of Hagler facing smaller fighters and only ever competing as a middleweight...

13 of Golovkin's world title opponents had previously fought either as a welterweight or a light middleweight. To be pedantic and technically-speaking, at least six of his world title opponents were relative novices at competing as 160lb-ers. Also, GGG has never competed as a pro as anything other than a middleweight.

Are you aware of Golovkin’s relationship with Universum? If you’re not, then you aren’t qualified to call anyone "dumb."

In terms of K2, apart from the owners, how many marquee names do they have amongst their stable of fighters?

In the context of paydays and HBO viewership figures, up until and including the Willie Monroe Jr. bout, Golovkin has earned either a smaller or similar purses than less popular and less talented fighters. Certainly not befitting of a top three pound-for-pounder, which may explain the reason why some of his rivals have refused to face him because they claimed they weren’t being paid their worth.

Do you feel that Haymon, Arum and De La Hoya were incapable of progressing Golovkin’s career faster and further than Tom Loeffler?

What fighter(s) has Tom Loeffler promoted that has had a commercially better career than Golovkin (other than his bosses)?

In what way is he a "pioneer"?

Is Kazakhstan really a "dirt poor country"? It’s central Asia’s largest economy, has less unemployment that the UK and the US… and its GDP is growing at a faster rate than those countries too.

If you’re convinced that Kazakhstan is a “dirt poor country”, then please elaborate?

Are you referring to Eastern Europe… and is your “nothing likable about boxers from that area of the globe” comment a racial slur or are you talking about boxing skills?

I really do hope it’s the latter… and if so, what about Kostya Tzyu? Vitali and Wladimir Klitschko? Andrew Golota? Nikolay Valuev? Louis Kaplan? Benny Bass? Vic Darchinyan? Orzubek Nazarov? Artur Grigorian? Beibut Shumenov? Sultan Ibragimov? Vasily Jorov? They all came before him.

Golovkin can speak English, but it is limited and hasn’t appeared to have improved since he started headlining HBO cards from 2012. There are an awful lot of multi/bilingual fighters. So this accomplishment is not "unique" or significant.

Are you really young? Were you born after 2003?

Has he ever scored a signature win?

I don’t think any fighter deserves an honorary rite of passage to “greatness” without having earned it by beating the very best fighters of his era/weight division and he hasn’t done that yet. Perhaps by the time he retires he will, but the fact remains is that the men he has defeated so far haven’t been that impressive.

Is this you?

What a bunch of drivel. Absolute nonsense. Just because you can cut and paste like a champion, it doesn't mean you can win an argument without logic or content. I've been watching Boxing for almost 40 years now so you analyze members of this site like you analyze boxing talent, not well. So it doesn't surprise me that you aren't able to use the eyeball test with boxers to see what you have. You have to look at the Boxrec fighting history stats to see if a boxer was any good and cross people off without even seeing them fight based on their opposition.

We are talking about the most avoided fighter in the history of the sport with GGG. If you don't agree with that then this discussion is over because i'm not discussing this with someone so ignorant. THE most avoided fighter in history. He's been begging for fights and does it 3 times a year. He's got a knockout streak the Middleweight Division has never seen before. In his last 9 fights, his opposition compiled a record of 265 wins and 22 losses. Oh and by the way, those last 9 fights that I reference happened in the last THREE years. So please go ahead and name another fighter that has had a more difficult schedule than GGG in the last 3 years. Let's hear it.

Then we have guys like Canelo. These fantastic fighters in their primes, running scared and coughing up titles so that they don't have to get in the ring with GGG. It's an epidemic in boxing that has never been seen before on this level. Maybe since the early years of Mike Tyson.

When you are the most avoided boxer in the history of the sport, at some point, you have to just measure the boxer on how he performs in the ring collectively. And no one has performed as well as GGG has. NO ONE.

I'm sorry to break this to you, but just because you've been watching something almost 40 years, it doesn't mean you're not full of shite.

Everyone here respects GGG, but you're bordering on the obsessive.

He is NOT the most avoided fighter in the history of the sport, you are talking complete and utter bollox, and if you claim to have been following boxing that long, then you should know better, there's countless fighters who were avoided in their primes and struggled to even get a title shot.

Jimmyirish, remember a few weeks back when you said that you don't read anything that i write and wouldn't? But here you go again commenting on a post of mine that basically had nothing to do with you. You just can't help yourself, can you?

So let's hear who these "countless fighters" were that were more avoided than GGG. What a silly reply to not even site one name in your insult laden reply without any worthy content. When was the last time you saw a boxer walk away from 40 million dollar payday because they were afraid? That's what Canelo did. I don't think you can name a person that has done that. I'm not talking about a guy walking away because of a bad purse split. GGG had given in to Canelo in every way to make this fight happen. Canelo walked away because he was plain scared and walked away from millions. So i can't wait to hear you list these countless others hero. Come on, let's go.

[Badhusker]

One of my sons asked me the other day - This GGG guy, he must be pretty awesome. I said yes, he is. He then asked what I thought was his best win? I really had to think. I replied he has a few good wins, but none really over what I would call future hall of famers.

Anyway, that is just an example of a conversation with a casual fan. I told him Canelo, who he is familiar with, stayed at 154 instead of moving up to fight GGG probably because he thought he would lose. Smart move on Canelo's part. Give it a year or two and they will fight. Time is on Canelo's side. In the meantime, I hope GGG fights Lara, who never seems to get mentioned when I hear the "no one will fight GGG." My point is that in order to become a legend, so to speak, GGG needs a couple of big names on his resume. Hagler was lucky enough that they came to him. If they don't come to GGG he is going to have to go after them and maybe not sit his career out at 160.

[jamesmcdonnell]

What a bunch of drivel. Absolute nonsense. Just because you can cut and paste like a champion, it doesn't mean you can win an argument without logic or content. I've been watching Boxing for almost 40 years now so you analyze members of this site like you analyze boxing talent, not well. So it doesn't surprise me that you aren't able to use the eyeball test with boxers to see what you have. You have to look at the Boxrec fighting history stats to see if a boxer was any good and cross people off without even seeing them fight based on their opposition.

We are talking about the most avoided fighter in the history of the sport with GGG. If you don't agree with that then this discussion is over because i'm not discussing this with someone so ignorant. THE most avoided fighter in history. He's been begging for fights and does it 3 times a year. He's got a knockout streak the Middleweight Division has never seen before. In his last 9 fights, his opposition compiled a record of 265 wins and 22 losses. Oh and by the way, those last 9 fights that I reference happened in the last THREE years. So please go ahead and name another fighter that has had a more difficult schedule than GGG in the last 3 years. Let's hear it.

Then we have guys like Canelo. These fantastic fighters in their primes, running scared and coughing up titles so that they don't have to get in the ring with GGG. It's an epidemic in boxing that has never been seen before on this level. Maybe since the early years of Mike Tyson.

When you are the most avoided boxer in the history of the sport, at some point, you have to just measure the boxer on how he performs in the ring collectively. And no one has performed as well as GGG has. NO ONE.

I'm sorry to break this to you, but just because you've been watching something almost 40 years, it doesn't mean you're not full of shite.

Everyone here respects GGG, but you're bordering on the obsessive.

He is NOT the most avoided fighter in the history of the sport, you are talking complete and utter bollox, and if you claim to have been following boxing that long, then you should know better, there's countless fighters who were avoided in their primes and struggled to even get a title shot.

Jimmyirish, remember a few weeks back when you said that you don't read anything that i write and wouldn't? But here you go again commenting on a post of mine that basically had nothing to do with you. You just can't help yourself, can you?

So let's hear who these "countless fighters" were that were more avoided than GGG. What a silly reply to not even site one name in your insult laden reply without any worthy content. When was the last time you saw a boxer walk away from 40 million dollar payday because they were afraid? That's what Canelo did. I don't think you can name a person that has done that. I'm not talking about a guy walking away because of a bad purse split. GGG had given in to Canelo in every way to make this fight happen. Canelo walked away because he was plain scared and walked away from millions. So i can't wait to hear you list these countless others hero. Come on, let's go.

So you honestly believe he was more avoided than Sam Langford? Are you in your right mind? Ray Robinson was shut out of a title fight for years, so was Archie Moore, at MW and LHW, Mike McCallum was avoided by all the big names of his era, especially Hearns who definitely wanted no part of his at all, Charley Burley, these are just the first few I could think of, there's loads more. To state that he is the most avoided fighter in history, over the fact Canelo avoided him, which he undoubtedly did, shows that you've no regard for the history of the sport. Being avoided by one ginger twat, does not make you the most avoided fighter in history.

Is GGG avoided, yes he is, is he the most avoided in history, no he isn't.
Is he a very good fighter, yes he is, is he the best fighter in history, no he isn't, not on the evidence of his record to date.

Anyway, I'll go back to ignoring your posts now, because I have work to do, and can't waste any more time banging my head against a brick wall any longer.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I'm sorry to break this to you, but just because you've been watching something almost 40 years, it doesn't mean you're not full of shite.

Everyone here respects GGG, but you're bordering on the obsessive.

He is NOT the most avoided fighter in the history of the sport, you are talking complete and utter bollox, and if you claim to have been following boxing that long, then you should know better, there's countless fighters who were avoided in their primes and struggled to even get a title shot.

Jimmyirish, remember a few weeks back when you said that you don't read anything that i write and wouldn't? But here you go again commenting on a post of mine that basically had nothing to do with you. You just can't help yourself, can you?

So let's hear who these "countless fighters" were that were more avoided than GGG. What a silly reply to not even site one name in your insult laden reply without any worthy content. When was the last time you saw a boxer walk away from 40 million dollar payday because they were afraid? That's what Canelo did. I don't think you can name a person that has done that. I'm not talking about a guy walking away because of a bad purse split. GGG had given in to Canelo in every way to make this fight happen. Canelo walked away because he was plain scared and walked away from millions. So i can't wait to hear you list these countless others hero. Come on, let's go.

So you honestly believe he was more avoided than Sam Langford? Are you in your right mind? Ray Robinson was shut out of a title fight for years, so was Archie Moore, at MW and LHW, Mike McCallum was avoided by all the big names of his era, especially Hearns who definitely wanted no part of his at all, Charley Burley, these are just the first few I could think of, there's loads more. To state that he is the most avoided fighter in history, over the fact Canelo avoided him, which he undoubtedly did, shows that you've no regard for the history of the sport. Being avoided by one ginger twat, does not make you the most avoided fighter in history.

Is GGG avoided, yes he is, is he the most avoided in history, no he isn't.
Is he a very good fighter, yes he is, is he the best fighter in history, no he isn't, not on the evidence of his record to date.

Anyway, I'll go back to ignoring your posts now, because I have work to do, and can't waste any more time banging my head against a brick wall any longer.

Anyway, none of them are as avoided as Wilt Chamberlain - "the greatest fighter who never lived. "

[SaadOffTheDeck]

McCallum wasn't avoided at all.

[Counter-puncher]

More bullsh*t from fergus ...

Enlightened-One, who is currently on your ignore list, made this post.
Display this post.

[jamesmcdonnell]

McCallum wasn't avoided at all.

How do you define avoided then?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

McCallum wasn't avoided at all.

How do you define avoided then?

I don't toss that word around lightly. Your other examples are apt, Mike sticks out like a sore thumb in that group. You could define it as the opposite of what happened with Mike McCallum. That myth has gained a lot of juice over the years. No timeline supports it. Unless you think Duran avoided the unknown McCallum to fight hearns or Tommy avoided him to fight hagler. You seem too sensible for that.

[jamesmcdonnell]

McCallum wasn't avoided at all.

How do you define avoided then?

I don't toss that word around lightly. Your other examples are apt, Mike sticks out like a sore thumb in that group. You could define it as the opposite of what happened with Mike McCallum. That myth has gained a lot of juice over the years. No timeline supports it. Unless you think Duran avoided the unknown McCallum to fight hearns or Tommy avoided him to fight hagler. You seem too sensible for that.

I'll admit that he's the weakest name of that list.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

How do you define avoided then?

I don't toss that word around lightly. Your other examples are apt, Mike sticks out like a sore thumb in that group. You could define it as the opposite of what happened with Mike McCallum. That myth has gained a lot of juice over the years. No timeline supports it. Unless you think Duran avoided the unknown McCallum to fight hearns or Tommy avoided him to fight hagler. You seem too sensible for that.

I'll admit that he's the weakest name of that list.

By miles.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I don't toss that word around lightly. Your other examples are apt, Mike sticks out like a sore thumb in that group. You could define it as the opposite of what happened with Mike McCallum. That myth has gained a lot of juice over the years. No timeline supports it. Unless you think Duran avoided the unknown McCallum to fight hearns or Tommy avoided him to fight hagler. You seem too sensible for that.

I'll admit that he's the weakest name of that list.

By miles.

I was throwing some names of the top of my head - my point remains, the idea that GGG is the most avoided fighter in the history of boxing is ludicrous, Ray Robinson waited what 8 years to get a shot was it? There's fighter never even got a look at a belt their whole careers, so holding GGG up as the ultimate example of an avoided fighter is tripe. I know you never said he was, just saying.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I'll admit that he's the weakest name of that list.

By miles.

I was throwing some names of the top of my head - my point remains, the idea that GGG is the most avoided fighter in the history of boxing is ludicrous, Ray Robinson waited what 8 years to get a shot was it? There's fighter never even got a look at a belt their whole careers, so holding GGG up as the ultimate example of an avoided fighter is tripe. I know you never said he was, just saying.

Your point is 100% spot on, McCallum just wasn't avoided. One name doesn't ruin your point. I've just grown tired of that myth over the years and can't help but respond. Guys like Robinson & Moore were terribly avoided and they don't hold a candle to guys like Langford, Charles, Burley, Williams, etc..

[jamesmcdonnell]

By miles.

I was throwing some names of the top of my head - my point remains, the idea that GGG is the most avoided fighter in the history of boxing is ludicrous, Ray Robinson waited what 8 years to get a shot was it? There's fighter never even got a look at a belt their whole careers, so holding GGG up as the ultimate example of an avoided fighter is tripe. I know you never said he was, just saying.

Your point is 100% spot on, McCallum just wasn't avoided. One name doesn't ruin your point. I've just grown tired of that myth over the years and can't help but respond. Guys like Robinson & Moore were terribly avoided and they don't hold a candle to guys like Langford, Charles, Burley, Williams, etc..

Think I always had a soft spot for McCallum, he was a great fighter, but was never able to get in with one of the really big names, I know the timeline doesn't necessarily bear it out, but Hearns was certainly around and about at a point when McCallum was active, and near his weight division. I guess the major thing is, that there was no major public clamour for a fight with Hagler or Hearns. Both would have been entertaining, but McCallum just wasn't well known enough - whereas the likes of Langford were very well known, but nobody wanted to take a risk against him.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I was throwing some names of the top of my head - my point remains, the idea that GGG is the most avoided fighter in the history of boxing is ludicrous, Ray Robinson waited what 8 years to get a shot was it? There's fighter never even got a look at a belt their whole careers, so holding GGG up as the ultimate example of an avoided fighter is tripe. I know you never said he was, just saying.

Your point is 100% spot on, McCallum just wasn't avoided. One name doesn't ruin your point. I've just grown tired of that myth over the years and can't help but respond. Guys like Robinson & Moore were terribly avoided and they don't hold a candle to guys like Langford, Charles, Burley, Williams, etc..

Think I always had a soft spot for McCallum, he was a great fighter, but was never able to get in with one of the really big names, I know the timeline doesn't necessarily bear it out, but Hearns was certainly around and about at a point when McCallum was active, and near his weight division. I guess the major thing is, that there was no major public clamour for a fight with Hagler or Hearns. Both would have been entertaining, but McCallum just wasn't well known enough - whereas the likes of Langford were very well known, but nobody wanted to take a risk against him.

Tommy had one fight at 54 when McCallum was moderately relevant. Leonard was retired. Duran fought Hearns instead when Mike had one fight of note to get a mandatory position. Mike wanted nothing to do with hagler. Not that a fight couldn't of been squeezed out along the way, just no avoidance of even a minor note.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Your point is 100% spot on, McCallum just wasn't avoided. One name doesn't ruin your point. I've just grown tired of that myth over the years and can't help but respond. Guys like Robinson & Moore were terribly avoided and they don't hold a candle to guys like Langford, Charles, Burley, Williams, etc..

Think I always had a soft spot for McCallum, he was a great fighter, but was never able to get in with one of the really big names, I know the timeline doesn't necessarily bear it out, but Hearns was certainly around and about at a point when McCallum was active, and near his weight division. I guess the major thing is, that there was no major public clamour for a fight with Hagler or Hearns. Both would have been entertaining, but McCallum just wasn't well known enough - whereas the likes of Langford were very well known, but nobody wanted to take a risk against him.

Tommy had one fight at 54 when McCallum was moderately relevant. Leonard was retired. Duran fought Hearns instead when Mike had one fight of note to get a mandatory position. Mike wanted nothing to do with hagler. Not that a fight couldn't of been squeezed out along the way, just no avoidance of even a minor note.

I don't think Hearns was ever keen on fighting McCallum - he probably knew Tommy's weaknesses a little too well, however, there were very brief windows when they could have fought, and Tommy had other fish to fry.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Think I always had a soft spot for McCallum, he was a great fighter, but was never able to get in with one of the really big names, I know the timeline doesn't necessarily bear it out, but Hearns was certainly around and about at a point when McCallum was active, and near his weight division. I guess the major thing is, that there was no major public clamour for a fight with Hagler or Hearns. Both would have been entertaining, but McCallum just wasn't well known enough - whereas the likes of Langford were very well known, but nobody wanted to take a risk against him.

Tommy had one fight at 54 when McCallum was moderately relevant. Leonard was retired. Duran fought Hearns instead when Mike had one fight of note to get a mandatory position. Mike wanted nothing to do with hagler. Not that a fight couldn't of been squeezed out along the way, just no avoidance of even a minor note.

I don't think Hearns was ever keen on fighting McCallum - he probably knew Tommy's weaknesses a little too well, however, there were very brief windows when they could have fought, and Tommy had other fish to fry.

Tommy was keen on fighting anyone, he would have handled Mike too.

[caldo2025]

I'm sorry to break this to you, but just because you've been watching something almost 40 years, it doesn't mean you're not full of shite.

Everyone here respects GGG, but you're bordering on the obsessive.

He is NOT the most avoided fighter in the history of the sport, you are talking complete and utter bollox, and if you claim to have been following boxing that long, then you should know better, there's countless fighters who were avoided in their primes and struggled to even get a title shot.

Jimmyirish, remember a few weeks back when you said that you don't read anything that i write and wouldn't? But here you go again commenting on a post of mine that basically had nothing to do with you. You just can't help yourself, can you?

So let's hear who these "countless fighters" were that were more avoided than GGG. What a silly reply to not even site one name in your insult laden reply without any worthy content. When was the last time you saw a boxer walk away from 40 million dollar payday because they were afraid? That's what Canelo did. I don't think you can name a person that has done that. I'm not talking about a guy walking away because of a bad purse split. GGG had given in to Canelo in every way to make this fight happen. Canelo walked away because he was plain scared and walked away from millions. So i can't wait to hear you list these countless others hero. Come on, let's go.

So you honestly believe he was more avoided than Sam Langford? Are you in your right mind? Ray Robinson was shut out of a title fight for years, so was Archie Moore, at MW and LHW, Mike McCallum was avoided by all the big names of his era, especially Hearns who definitely wanted no part of his at all, Charley Burley, these are just the first few I could think of, there's loads more. To state that he is the most avoided fighter in history, over the fact Canelo avoided him, which he undoubtedly did, shows that you've no regard for the history of the sport. Being avoided by one ginger twat, does not make you the most avoided fighter in history.

Is GGG avoided, yes he is, is he the most avoided in history, no he isn't.
Is he a very good fighter, yes he is, is he the best fighter in history, no he isn't, not on the evidence of his record to date.

Anyway, I'll go back to ignoring your posts now, because I have work to do, and can't waste any more time banging my head against a brick wall any longer.

What you fail to figure into this discussion is the fact that Boxing was VERY different back in the day. Boxers didn't have the autonomy that they have today to pick and choose who they fight. Champions had to defend their titles against the top contenders and no one vacated belts to avoid fighting someone. When you say that RR and AM were shut out of title fights for years, you are talking about a whole different thing...corruption. The mob had everything to do with who got the title shots back in the day and who didn't. It wasn't up to the boxers back then.

In fact, i'd say that it's only been in the last 20-30 years or so where boxers even had the ability to pick and choose the trajectory of their careers. So i feel very comfortable saying that GGG is the most avoided fighter in that time.

[Enlightened-One]

In fact, i'd say that it's only been in the last 20-30 years or so where boxers even had the ability to pick and choose the trajectory of their careers. So i feel very comfortable saying that GGG is the most avoided fighter in that time.

What you’ve just stated is incorrect.

It’s not appropriate to justify your opinion based on exceptions alone, such as Floyd Mayweather Jr.

There are only a handful of fighters that are in a position to self-promote and self-manage their careers. So you cannot base your theory on a very remote exception to the general rule, which is…

Promoters like Haymon, Hearn, De La Hoya, Arum etc. and TV networks like SKY, HBO, Showtime etc. determine the fights that take place.

The vast majority of fighters cannot dictate to anyone whom they’d “prefer” to face. For sure, to keep things cordial and to maintain a pleasant working relationship, the opinions of fighters are always heard and perhaps they influence things slightly, but they aren’t in complete control of things.

[caldo2025]

In fact, i'd say that it's only been in the last 20-30 years or so where boxers even had the ability to pick and choose the trajectory of their careers. So i feel very comfortable saying that GGG is the most avoided fighter in that time.

What you’ve just stated is incorrect.

It’s not appropriate to justify your opinion based on exceptions alone, such as Floyd Mayweather Jr.

There are only a handful of fighters that are in a position to self-promote and self-manage their careers. So you cannot base your theory on a very remote exception to the general rule, which is…

Promoters like Haymon, Hearn, De La Hoya, Arum etc. and TV networks like SKY, HBO, Showtime etc. determine the fights that take place.

The vast majority of fighters cannot dictate to anyone whom they’d “prefer” to face. For sure, to keep things cordial and to maintain a pleasant working relationship, the opinions of fighters are always heard and perhaps they influence things slightly, but they aren’t in complete control of things.

I respectfully disagree with you. Every boxer holding a strap right now as well as any boxer with a healthy following has the ability to duck and choose who they want to defend it against. Do I have to the name the endless list of boxers that have vacated titles in the last 5 years or paid "step aside" money to avoid having to fight a mandatory defense. The boxers doing these things are more plentiful then you think so I definitely disagree with you all together.

Promoters have that power over the young prospect fighters but not the majority of the fighters in their stable. We've seen lawsuit after lawsuit and fighters staying idle and refusing to fight for certain promoters to void out their contracts so that's also false. Promoters suggest possible fights and then try to sell it to their boxers and hope they agree. But for most fighters, it's up to the Boxer and their team what they decide to do with possible fights.

Disagree completely

[Enlightened-One]

Every boxer holding a strap right now as well as any boxer with a healthy following has the ability to duck and choose who they want to defend it against.

Fighters only have limited control over whom they choose to face.

For instance, Main Events lobbied the WBC for Kovalev to become the mandatory challenger for Stevenson’s title (even though the Russian wasn’t even ranked by that organisation).

The WBC conceded to their demands, so Adonis had two choices: defend his title against Kovalev; or abandon it.

Similarly, Sergey Kovalev did not influence Main Events’ decision to abandon participation in the WBC’s purse bid for the Adonis Stevenson fight, in preference to signing an exclusive contract with HBO.

Peter Quillin was placed in the same situation, either vacate his WBO middleweight title or defend it against Roc Nation’s Korobov. Haymon forced Quillin to abandon his title.

Similarly, Canelo was compelled to drop his WBC middleweight by Golden Boy, because they wanted more time to negotiate terms of the GGG fight, without having to adhere to WBC-specified deadlines and purse bid rules. Instead, they’ve negotiated terms with K2 for a September 2017 fight.

Do I have to the name the endless list of boxers that have vacated titles in the last 5 years or paid "step aside" money to avoid having to fight a mandatory defense.

I would actually welcome this, because I’m fairly confident that the majority of the time, the main driver for these sort of decisions is promoter or TV network issues/disputes. I could probably explain the reasons for these actions.

Promoters have that power over the young prospect fighters but not the majority of the fighters in their stable. We've seen lawsuit after lawsuit and fighters staying idle and refusing to fight for certain promoters to void out their contracts so that's also false.

I agree that a fighter can choose not to fight at all, whilst preferring to engage in lawsuits with their promoters, but this doesn’t mean that anyone is doing any “ducking” for reasons of “cowardice”.

Lawsuits cannot be filed without a legitimate reason, coupled with compelling evidence of wrongdoing.

Promoters suggest possible fights and then try to sell it to their boxers and hope they agree. But for most fighters, it's up to the Boxer and their team what they decide to do with possible fights.

A fighter has the choice to not fight, but they cannot pick-and-choose the names they’re able to face. That decision is up to the promoters, TV networks and governing bodies.