Can Richard Schaefer Save Boxing?

[caldo2025]

Yes, it's a dramatic title to a post but i'm completely serious. The announcement of Schaefer's new promotion company Ringstar was a blip on most boxing fans radar a couple of weeks ago. But I don't think that fans really understand what this could mean for the state of boxing overall.

With the PBC now on life support and promises unfulfilled by Haymon, the climate is prime for Schaefer to come in and acquire considerable talent. One could argue that no one was more popular than Richard Schaefer when he ran Golden Boy. He worked with everyone (except Top Rank) and was respected by all. When he left Golden Boy, Floyd announced that he would no longer work with Golden Boy. Then the cold war started to get a bit colder and walls built higher between promotional companies.

Now that Schaefer is back, it's my belief that we are about to witness and exciting time in boxing. As Ringstar accumulates stars, fights that we had no way of seeing prior could now be possible. It may take a little time but I really think that Schaefer could be the bridge between these promoters and the sport of boxing could be entering it's greatest era because of it.

[Enlightened-One]

With the PBC now on life support and promises unfulfilled by Haymon...

In what way is it on life support? It’s first year was simply a proof-of-concept and most businesses lose money in their first year of operation.

And besides, since April 2015, how many non-PPV bouts televised by non-PBC affiliated networks surpassed the viewership figures of the following fights?
• Thurman vs. Porter
• Broner vs. Porter
• Garcia vs. Guerrero
• Garcia vs. Peterson
• Santa Cruz vs. Frampton
• Wilder vs. Arreola
• Wilder vs. Duhaupas
• Figueroa vs. DeMarco
• Santa Cruz vs. Mares
• Guerrero vs. Martinez
• Provodnikov vs. Molina Jr.
• Figueroa vs. Burns

He worked with everyone (except Top Rank) and was respected by all...

HBO (previously) wouldn’t work with Schaefer and I doubt that GBP promotions would. There’s no guarantee that Arum would be willing to work with Schaefer either.

Didn't Kathy Duva criticise Schaefer also?

Schaefer could be the bridge between these promoters and the sport of boxing could be entering it's greatest era because of it.

You do know that Schaefer are incredibly close to Al Haymon, don’t you?

Aren’t you aware of the all the dodgy shenanigans between Oscar De La Hoya and his arch-enemies Schaefer and Haymon?

Didn't Kathy Duva file a lawsuit against Schaefer a couple of years ago when he was still involved with GBP?

[Badhusker]

I always thought Schaefer would come back and partner up with Haymon and Floyd, and monopolize the sport.

[Enlightened-One]

I always thought Schaefer would come back and partner up with Haymon and Floyd, and monopolize the sport.

I think you're right.

I don’t believe that anyone doubts the likelihood of Schaefer’s promotional company hosting PBC events, which will almost certainly contain fighters affiliated to fellow promoters linked to Haymon.

Schaefer has already confirmed that he’ll be working with Haymon.

[jockpunk]

PBC is definitely on its last legs. How many of those networks do you think are actually going to pay good money for fights once they are no longer getting paid to show them. Maybe spike tv and FS1. I will be shocked if NBC, CBS, ESPN are going to pay much for the usual PBC crap.

Regarding Shaefer, I would assume he will take over for Dibella as Haymon's house promoter. Regardless, I don't see his return being particularly good for boxing.

[Enlightened-One]

PBC is definitely on its last legs. How many of those networks do you think are actually going to pay good money for fights once they are no longer getting paid to show them.

The PBC has multi-year contracts with the networks he works with, so a few of the contracts aren't due to for renewal until the middle of next year at the earliest, meaning that there's plenty of time to turn things around.

[Ricky_]

because schaefer did such a great job at GBP

[SFW]

Does anyone know how much money Haymon has lost already for the investors that made this whole thing even possible? Or the sketchy manner in which that agreement occurred? I'd say just be thankful some of the fights turn out good, and enjoy them while they are here. Who knows what could happen with all the schiesters and goons behind the scenes.

[Enlightened-One]

Why do you all seem to have such animosity towards Richard Schaefer, PBC and Al Haymon?

Is it because their existence reduces the likelihood of certain fights from being made? If so, why not blame all the parties responsible for refusing to work with each other?

Is there a genuine “fear” that Al Haymon’s goal is to monopolise the sport of boxing? There is no evidence to support this and boxing is a global sport.

Do people genuinely believe that Al Haymon’s shady history is any worse than other key figures involved in the sport? Why not hate all dodgy characters involved in the sport?

Do people dislike Haymon because of his affiliation with Floyd Mayweather Jr.?

So anyone involved with fighters having “nice-guy” smiley-face cartoonish catch-phrase public personas is liked (i.e. GGG -> Loeffler; Pacquiao -> Arum), but anyone involved with a pantomime villain “bad-guy” is pure “evil” (i.e. Mayweather -> Haymon).

Is it because Al Haymon refuses to engage with the media, compelling some people to automatically dislike him, simply because it’s human nature to “fear” or “hate” anything that they don’t understand?

Are people annoyed that the PBC’s match-up’s aren’t good enough, even though fight fans don’t have to pay a cable subscription or PPV fee to watch these bouts?

Is it a racial issue?

[gilgamesh]

The only thing that's gonna save Boxing (and hell at this point even this might not work) is if Fighters start fighting each other again. Nobody wants to follow a sport where a guy says "I'll fight him right now...I don't f*ck around" one week and then 2 weeks later "I'm dropping my belt, I'm not gonna be forced into this fight" like a little bitch.

Nobody can save Boxing if the biggest names in the sport are gonna make jokes out of themselves like that.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

PBC is definitely on its last legs. How many of those networks do you think are actually going to pay good money for fights once they are no longer getting paid to show them. Maybe spike tv and FS1. I will be shocked if NBC, CBS, ESPN are going to pay much for the usual PBC crap.

Regarding Shaefer, I would assume he will take over for Dibella as Haymon's house promoter. Regardless, I don't see his return being particularly good for boxing.

Spot on with the PBC. They'll retain Spike as they, oddly, seem to put their most consistently solid cards there. Nobody else is going to reup on their own as the ratings are too poor for even paid slots. Not to mention, Al isn't going to use his own money and I doubt the investors want to lose much more than the billion or so they already have. Biggest failure in sports history. It makes the XFL look successful. It was a good idea that was poorly executed and Americans wouldn't give a damn anyway.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

The only thing that's gonna save Boxing (and hell at this point even this might not work) is if Fighters start fighting each other again. Nobody wants to follow a sport where a guy says "I'll fight him right now...I don't f*ck around" one week and then 2 weeks later "I'm dropping my belt, I'm not gonna be forced into this fight" like a little bitch.

Nobody can save Boxing if the biggest names in the sport are gonna make jokes out of themselves like that.

I'd only add that there really aren't enough big names to captivate our country anyway. The fact that they don't fight each other now, or test themselves coming up has left the sport with only a handful of viable names outside of the lower weight classes.

[gilgamesh]

PBC is definitely on its last legs. How many of those networks do you think are actually going to pay good money for fights once they are no longer getting paid to show them. Maybe spike tv and FS1. I will be shocked if NBC, CBS, ESPN are going to pay much for the usual PBC crap.

Regarding Shaefer, I would assume he will take over for Dibella as Haymon's house promoter. Regardless, I don't see his return being particularly good for boxing.

Spot on with the PBC. They'll retain Spike as they, oddly, seem to put their most consistently solid cards there. Nobody else is going to reup on their own as the ratings are too poor for even paid slots. Not to mention, Al isn't going to use his own money and I doubt the investors want to lose much more than the billion or so they already have. Biggest failure in sports history. It makes the XFL look successful. It was a good idea that was poorly executed and Americans wouldn't give a damn anyway.

Yeah it's almost criminal that for the last few years Haymon has had it in his hands to give us Garcia vs Thurman, Garcia vs Porter, Spence vs Porter, Stevenson vs Beterbiev...and all we're getting is sh*t like Berto vs Victor Oriz 2, Thurman vs Robert Guerrero, Danny Garcia vs Paulie Malignaggi...what the f*ck?

Somewhere along the line Boxing got the wrong idea that you only need 1 good fighter to sell a fight to people. PBC is the ultimate proof that this is damn sure not the case. It takes 2 to tango, and it takes 2 good fighters for most people to give a sh*t. Why would most people sit at home and watch a sh*tty fight card on a Friday or Saturday night when they could hit the bars or some other form of night life and get laid while having a better time?

[jockpunk]

To this day I cannot figure out what haymon's plan was. Maybe it was it screw his investors out of a bunch of cash while building loyalty among the fighters who are getting paid good money for fighting nobodies, and then take them all back to showtime where he will actually get paid. If that was the plan, I can see it working.

If it was to actually build interest/demand from the general public such that it will be worthwhile for the major networks to pay for his fights after the original agreements expire, then I don't see how it was going to end up as anything other than a complete failure. His ONLY hope was to match all of his guys the way we all want him to. Yes, there have been the occasional good fights that have drawn decent ratings, but those are in the vast minority. If he would have gone all out making great fights then yes, some of his guys would have lost their "0s", but some would have emerged as legit stars, possibly ppv level. As it stands now, he doesn't have a single ppv level fighter despite having almost 2 years to build one. Really, he doesn't have any that appear to be on the horizon either. While guys like GGG, Crawford, and probably kovalev showed poor ppv numbers, at least they are knocking on the door and have a chance at getting there with one or two signature wins. Is anyone really going to pay to watch danny Garcia if he beats berto and Thurman?

For all we heard about haymon being so smart, he does not seem particularly bright (unless my first scenario was correct). His complete refusal to build a media presence or develop a plan for his fighters shows a complete lack of foresight.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Does anyone know how much money Haymon has lost already for the investors that made this whole thing even possible? Or the sketchy manner in which that agreement occurred? I'd say just be thankful some of the fights turn out good, and enjoy them while they are here. Who knows what could happen with all the schiesters and goons behind the scenes.

Last I saw they had lost right around 950 million.

[Enlightened-One]

Last I saw they had lost right around 950 million.

Source?

[BAD INTENTIONS]

Why do you all seem to have such animosity towards Richard Schaefer, PBC and Al Haymon?

Is it because their existence reduces the likelihood of certain fights from being made? If so, why not blame all the parties responsible for refusing to work with each other?

Is there a genuine “fear” that Al Haymon’s goal is to monopolise the sport of boxing? There is no evidence to support this and boxing is a global sport.

Do people genuinely believe that Al Haymon’s shady history is any worse than other key figures involved in the sport? Why not hate all dodgy characters involved in the sport?

Do people dislike Haymon because of his affiliation with Floyd Mayweather Jr.?

So anyone involved with fighters having “nice-guy” smiley-face cartoonish catch-phrase public personas is liked (i.e. GGG -> Loeffler; Pacquiao -> Arum), but anyone involved with a pantomime villain “bad-guy” is pure “evil” (i.e. Mayweather -> Haymon).

Is it because Al Haymon refuses to engage with the media, compelling some people to automatically dislike him, simply because it’s human nature to “fear” or “hate” anything that they don’t understand?

Are people annoyed that the PBC’s match-up’s aren’t good enough, even though fight fans don’t have to pay a cable subscription or PPV fee to watch these bouts?

Is it a racial issue?

Like you said, why not hate ALL parties involved?
Someone else listed matches the PBC has sat on for years ...
Are you serious? Do we need to start the same list for HBO/TR?
Sitting on matches is a Top Rank invention for christ's sake.
No one has delayed major matched more than Top Rank.
Blurring the lines between management and promotion is a PBC thing?

Logically, if you are a person who claims to hate Haymon,
strictly based on the things he does,
then you would have to hate Arum and HBO too.
And wish the same failure on them too.
BECAUSE THEY ALL DO THE SAME fornicate!NG THINGS!!!

Because no one here, or anyone knowledgeable about boxing,
can tell me there is any real difference between TR/HBO and the PBC,
then it's safe to assume, in the USA, the hate is rooted in some hidden reason,
like race, or some rumored aspects about his sexuality, or both.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

All the promoters have sucked the life out of boxing since HBO and the casinos let them stop working. Now the fans don't care anymore. Still hysterical you think a network with a minor interest in boxing is a promoter.

[SFW]

Does anyone know how much money Haymon has lost already for the investors that made this whole thing even possible? Or the sketchy manner in which that agreement occurred? I'd say just be thankful some of the fights turn out good, and enjoy them while they are here. Who knows what could happen with all the schiesters and goons behind the scenes.

Last I saw they had lost right around 950 million.

Sweet Jesus.

[BAD INTENTIONS]

Last I saw they had lost right around 950 million.

That's a BILLION dollars.
This isn't some hidden war money,
this is a failing black-owned company in the USA.

You should have multiple credible sources to prove this.

I don't trust any rich person, you could be right.
If it is this bad, ESPN will jump on it a little after the contract is up. Convenient.

But you gotta show something.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Last I saw they had lost right around 950 million.

That's a BILLION dollars.
This isn't some hidden war money,
this is a failing black-owned company in the USA.

You should have multiple credible sources to prove this.

I don't trust any rich person, you could be right.
If it is this bad, ESPN will jump on it a little after the contract is up. Convenient.

But you gotta show something.

Google it, if they generated sponsors and network support that figure would obviously go down. Hard to imagine they will.

[Enlightened-One]

Google it, if they generated sponsors and network support that figure would obviously go down. Hard to imagine they will.

The only thing remotely similar to that sum of money that I've found relating to the PBC, is the $925 lawsuit against Waddell & Reed.

Most websites seem to be quoting $200m, with one estimating around $400m.

I wouldn't have asked you to quantify your $950m loss claim if I could find any source that can quote this sum.

So I'll ask you again, where did you find the $950m loss figure?

[caldo2025]

PBC is definitely on its last legs. How many of those networks do you think are actually going to pay good money for fights once they are no longer getting paid to show them. Maybe spike tv and FS1. I will be shocked if NBC, CBS, ESPN are going to pay much for the usual PBC crap.

Regarding Shaefer, I would assume he will take over for Dibella as Haymon's house promoter. Regardless, I don't see his return being particularly good for boxing.

Spot on with the PBC. They'll retain Spike as they, oddly, seem to put their most consistently solid cards there. Nobody else is going to reup on their own as the ratings are too poor for even paid slots. Not to mention, Al isn't going to use his own money and I doubt the investors want to lose much more than the billion or so they already have. Biggest failure in sports history. It makes the XFL look successful. It was a good idea that was poorly executed and Americans wouldn't give a damn anyway.

I think that one of Haymon's biggest errors was committing to so many networks. I'd consider myself an avid boxing fan and I missed some of the fight shows because I didn't know they were on or where they were on. So he had multiple networks showing cards and multiple announcing teams, most were brand new commentators to the sport. Zero continuity. Just throwing crap cards together and letting anyone run it. Not to mention what everyone else is pointing out here, he's had the stable of stars to make some excellent fights and he's failed to do that for the majority of the cards since inception.

[caldo2025]

Why do you all seem to have such animosity towards Richard Schaefer, PBC and Al Haymon?

Is it because their existence reduces the likelihood of certain fights from being made? If so, why not blame all the parties responsible for refusing to work with each other?

Is there a genuine “fear” that Al Haymon’s goal is to monopolise the sport of boxing? There is no evidence to support this and boxing is a global sport.

Do people genuinely believe that Al Haymon’s shady history is any worse than other key figures involved in the sport? Why not hate all dodgy characters involved in the sport?

Do people dislike Haymon because of his affiliation with Floyd Mayweather Jr.?

So anyone involved with fighters having “nice-guy” smiley-face cartoonish catch-phrase public personas is liked (i.e. GGG -> Loeffler; Pacquiao -> Arum), but anyone involved with a pantomime villain “bad-guy” is pure “evil” (i.e. Mayweather -> Haymon).

Is it because Al Haymon refuses to engage with the media, compelling some people to automatically dislike him, simply because it’s human nature to “fear” or “hate” anything that they don’t understand?

Are people annoyed that the PBC’s match-up’s aren’t good enough, even though fight fans don’t have to pay a cable subscription or PPV fee to watch these bouts?

Is it a racial issue?

Like you said, why not hate ALL parties involved?
Someone else listed matches the PBC has sat on for years ...
Are you serious? Do we need to start the same list for HBO/TR?
Sitting on matches is a Top Rank invention for christ's sake.
No one has delayed major matched more than Top Rank.
Blurring the lines between management and promotion is a PBC thing?

Logically, if you are a person who claims to hate Haymon,
strictly based on the things he does,
then you would have to hate Arum and HBO too.
And wish the same failure on them too.
BECAUSE THEY ALL DO THE SAME eff!NG THINGS!!!

Because no one here, or anyone knowledgeable about boxing,
can tell me there is any real difference between TR/HBO and the PBC,
then it's safe to assume, in the USA, the hate is rooted in some hidden reason,
like race, or some rumored aspects about his sexuality, or both.

Right on man, good take. You're right, these promoters are all doing the same thing and none of it is good for boxing. I think that the reason that fans are more critical of Haymon is because he's got the largest stable of top tier fighters. Golden Boy has one star, Canelo. Top Rank has a few stars. I can understand why GB and TR are protecting their studs because a loss could mean disaster for both. But Haymon could match his top stars all day and still have plenty of star value in his stable to be profitable.

So the frustration levied at Haymon is more due to him having all the cars in the driveway but taking the bus to work each day. This why I think that Schaefer is going to shake things up. He's going to steal talent away from all of these companies and at least we have a new player in the mix. It can't get any worse than it is now. It can only help things.

[BAD INTENTIONS]

Right on man, good take. You're right, these promoters are all doing the same thing and none of it is good for boxing. I think that the reason that fans are more critical of Haymon is because he's got the largest stable of top tier fighters. Golden Boy has one star, Canelo. Top Rank has a few stars. I can understand why GB and TR are protecting their studs because a loss could mean disaster for both. But Haymon could match his top stars all day and still have plenty of star value in his stable to be profitable.

So the frustration levied at Haymon is more due to him having all the cars in the driveway but taking the bus to work each day. This why I think that Schaefer is going to shake things up. He's going to steal talent away from all of these companies and at least we have a new player in the mix. It can't get any worse than it is now. It can only help things.

Now this is the first time I'll accept a something specifically against Haymon.
You are right, he does have the most fighters to choose from.

But I remember when TR and GB had the same advantages.
They did the same garbage.

F' em all.