Bermane Stiverne vs Alexander Povetkin for interim WBC title

Stiverne vs Povetkin

Poll ended at 04 Mar 2017, 13:03

Stiverne by KO/TKO
7
10%
Stiverne by decision
3
4%
Povetkin by KO/TKO
31
42%
Povetkin by decision
28
38%
evenly matched, difficult to predict
4
5%
 
Total votes: 73

BAD INTENTIONS
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Re: Bermane Stiverne vs Alexander Povetkin for interim WBC title

Post by BAD INTENTIONS »

Freedom2013 wrote:
Enlightened-One wrote:However, the bottom line though, is this:

• Deontay Wilder will be allowed to retain ownership of the WBC heavyweight title for at least two years, without having ever faced a mandatory challenger :o
• Alexander Povetkin has been the “mandatory challenger” to Deontay Wilder’s world title for fifteen months, but now he has to defend his “mandatory challenger” status :lol: :lol: :lol:
• The “mandatory challenger” has to make a “mandatory” defence of his status before the world champion is obliged to perform a mandatory :o

Here’s a detailed list of reasons why I find the whole situation bizarrely unfair to Povetkin - based on the following points:
• Deontay Wilder won his WBC heavyweight title on the 17th January, 2015
• Povetkin became the mandatory challenger to Wilder’s WBC title on the 22nd May, 2015
• Deontay Wilder hasn’t engaged in a mandatory defence of his world title
• The WBC deprived Povetkin the opportunity to fight for Wilder’s belt at the last-minute
• Wilder was authorised to engage in another voluntary defence of his title against an over-matched opponent
• Povetkin was accused of “failing” a drug test and subsequently received widespread accusations of being a PED “cheat”
• WADA clears Povetkin’s name
• Instead of conceding their mistake, the WBC claims that Povetkin escaped a ban because they couldn’t prove any wrongdoing
• The WBC compels Povetkin to engage in a bout to retain his “mandatory” challenger status
• All Bermaine Stiverne has to do is to defeat a journeyman with a losing record to be granted an opportunity to gain the WBC interim belt and deprive Povetkin of his mandatory challenger status
Excellent post! :TU:
Wasn't Wilder was in Russia a week before the scheduled fight.
Therefore, Povetkin was going to get his mandatory shot on May 21, 2016 ... a one year wait that's not abnormal these days.

If anyone here was in Russia, RIGHT AS ONE OF THE HUGEST STEROID SCANDALS WAS UNFOLDING, and then your opponent failed a drug test, you wouldn't take the fight either ... it's common sense.

If it was a honest scientific mix-up it could have been resolved.
However, it had to be resolved at the PBC, WBC, Russian Boxing Association level.
It could have been resolved quickly, but WE allow boxing to operate like this.
Remember how long the Hopkins/Dawson reversal took?

That has nothing to do with Wilder. It is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay above his head.
You guys think this is the movies where fighters could make demands.
Even Manny gets told to shut the f up by his promoter/manager.

It's typical that most of you here choose to target the powerless Wilder in this situation.
He is just a worker like you. Why can't people understand that?
imo, it shows a weakness. You are willing to point your anger at the easy scapegoat target (fighter),
instead of the real problem which is the hard target (boxing politics/business).
Enlightened-One
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Re: Bermane Stiverne vs Alexander Povetkin for interim WBC title

Post by Enlightened-One »

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:It's typical that most of you here choose to target the powerless Wilder in this situation.
He is just a worker like you. Why can't people understand that?
imo, it shows a weakness. You are willing to point your anger at the easy scapegoat target...
Image
FYI - All I did was list the facts.

I don't have any control over what actually transpired in the real world and nor did I make any derogatory remarks about Wilder.

I only commented on the bizarrely unfair treatment of Povetkin and my bullet-pointed list of facts wasn't intended to offend anyone. :TU:
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Re: Bermane Stiverne vs Alexander Povetkin for interim WBC title

Post by lefty »

Rob3_142 wrote:
lefty wrote:
gilgamesh wrote:
No I'm not, but I know Wilder doesn't want to fight Povetkin. He was the happiest guy in the world when he got out of the fight with Povetkin. I have such a low opinion of Wilder because he's had 4 gimme title defenses.

1 is commonplace so that was forgivable. 2 isn't unheard of. 3 is pushing it a bit. 4 means you're a fighter that will shy away from challenges at every opportunity, and I don't have much respect for fighters like that.
He was out in England training for the final few weeks waitin to fly to Russia when the fight was called off. Can't really blame Wilder there.
So '3. pushing it a little bit' jumps all the way to '4. a fighter that shy's away from challenges at every opportunity'? Bit of a drastic leap isn't it?

I think that Wilder would have fought Povetkin, and that he was doing everything to do so. However the 'drug scandal' gave him the perfect out, and the broken hand is extremely unfortunate. It was pretty clear that Wilder did not want to fight in Russia, but think he'd conceded to doing so. Circumstances gave him the perfect exit clause.
I could have just given up his belt if he really didn't want the fight though. It's not like Haymon couldn't have found another route for him somewhere.
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Re: Bermane Stiverne vs Alexander Povetkin for interim WBC title

Post by crusader »

Wilder would've given up more than 3x his biggest purse and looked like a total pussy if he dropped his belt. From reading interviews it seems to me like he wasn't exactly eager to fight Povetkin, especially in Russia, but the money was there and he was in a corner with respect to keeping his title and having to fight on the road to do so.

I think he was going through with the fight, and a lot of people claimed he wouldn't, but it wouldn't surprise me if he felt a faint sense of relief that the fight was called off and his side regained more control of his situation.

Povetkin-Stiverne is an okay fight I suppose, and I hope Wilder faces a good opponent in his next bout.
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Re: Bermane Stiverne vs Alexander Povetkin for interim WBC title

Post by Serragon »

Here is what should have happened:

1. Povetkin - Stiverne for the WBC title.
2. Wilder made Champion in Recess (like the WBC did to Drozd). This means when he is healthy, he gets first crack at the new champ if he so chooses.
Enlightened-One
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Re: Bermane Stiverne vs Alexander Povetkin for interim WBC title

Post by Enlightened-One »

In December 2014, Alexander Povetkin thought that he'd only have to get past Perez in order to gain a shot at the WBC world title, but instead, through no fault of his own, as the "mandatory challenger" since May 2015, he has to make a "mandatory" defence of his "mandatory challenger" status in order to gain an opportunity to participate in a world title fight unlikely to take place before June 2017, facing a champion who has never faced a "mandatory challenger" since his reign began in January 2015.

That was a long sentence, but a funny one! :lol:
Rob3_142
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Re: Bermane Stiverne vs Alexander Povetkin for interim WBC title

Post by Rob3_142 »

Serragon wrote:Here is what should have happened:

1. Povetkin - Stiverne for the WBC title.
2. Wilder made Champion in Recess (like the WBC did to Drozd). This means when he is healthy, he gets first crack at the new champ if he so chooses.
I like this one. I suspect Wilder will be out of action for some time with the broken hand, and it would be a massive shame that one of the 4 belts would be inactive the whole time. Giving Wilder a free shot back at his title is pretty fair. I suspect Wilder would feel different about it.

As far as who should fight for the WBC, I think an eliminator wouldn't go a miss.

Povetkin v Parker
Pulev v Stiverne

With the winners fighting for the WBC. Just a thought!
jbizzle20
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Re: Bermane Stiverne vs Alexander Povetkin for interim WBC title

Post by jbizzle20 »

This is a joke. None of these guys will even be a mandatory for Wilder. How many voluntaries is he going to get? :roll:
Rob3_142
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Re: Bermane Stiverne vs Alexander Povetkin for interim WBC title

Post by Rob3_142 »

jbizzle20 wrote:This is a joke. None of these guys will even be a mandatory for Wilder. How many voluntaries is he going to get? :roll:
Well the 4 names named above are the top 4 ranked in the WBC. He was ordered to fight Povetkin in a mandatory, but was called off as we all know. Was it Wilder's fault that it was called off? Of course not. Any of those names would probably be worthy of a title shot.
Badhusker
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Re: Bermane Stiverne vs Alexander Povetkin for interim WBC title

Post by Badhusker »

Its pretty obvious that those of you that Wilder is glad or happy as hell he didn't have to fight Povetkin are being stupid. It wasn't his fault the fight didn't go through. He would be glad to not get the $5 million, which is about 5 times his normal purse? Guess what your opinion of what you THINK Wilder wanted, is just that, so don't act like it is fact.

Povetkin knew Wilder wanted to fight in September and January after Wilder took a fight to test his broken hand that only had a few months of healing. Povetkin swore he would not take a fight before his fight with Wilder, but did anyway, knowing he wouldn't be ready to fight Wilder in January after fighting Wach in November. Wilder was ready to fight Povetkin in January. It was Povetkin's team that needed 6 months to prepare. Wilder was ready. Now, to insinuate Wilder is glad it didn't happen, or somehow afraid of Povetkin is laughable. :doh:
jbizzle20
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Re: Bermane Stiverne vs Alexander Povetkin for interim WBC title

Post by jbizzle20 »

Rob3_142 wrote:
jbizzle20 wrote:This is a joke. None of these guys will even be a mandatory for Wilder. How many voluntaries is he going to get? :roll:
Well the 4 names named above are the top 4 ranked in the WBC. He was ordered to fight Povetkin in a mandatory, but was called off as we all know. Was it Wilder's fault that it was called off? Of course not. Any of those names would probably be worthy of a title shot.
I'm not knocking the contenders. As I understand it (and please correct me if I am wrong as I am a noob on the politics side), Wilder is basically still the champion regardless of what happens in this fight. He basically reclaims the title when he decides to come back, making this fight meaningless in the long run.
Rob3_142
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Re: Bermane Stiverne vs Alexander Povetkin for interim WBC title

Post by Rob3_142 »

jbizzle20 wrote:
Rob3_142 wrote:
jbizzle20 wrote:This is a joke. None of these guys will even be a mandatory for Wilder. How many voluntaries is he going to get? :roll:
Well the 4 names named above are the top 4 ranked in the WBC. He was ordered to fight Povetkin in a mandatory, but was called off as we all know. Was it Wilder's fault that it was called off? Of course not. Any of those names would probably be worthy of a title shot.
I'm not knocking the contenders. As I understand it (and please correct me if I am wrong as I am a noob on the politics side), Wilder is basically still the champion regardless of what happens in this fight. He basically reclaims the title when he decides to come back, making this fight meaningless in the long run.
Well nothing is happening to Wilder and his title. He is still the WBC champion. We were discussing the possibility of him relaxing the title during his injury, and offering him a free pop at the champion when he's back fit. This is all speculative, and quite unlikely to happen. What is happening though, is Povetkin is being ordered to defend his mandatory challenger position in the rankings.

Personally it's preposterous. Povetkin would have fought Wilder if it wasn't for this erroneous false drug test, thus satisfying his responsibilities with the WBC. So to order him to defend his mandatory position is a little unfair.
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Re: Bermane Stiverne vs Alexander Povetkin for interim WBC title

Post by Enlightened-One »

Deontay Wilder will apparently be ready to resume training and be in a position to start fighting again by January of next year.

Assuming he needs an eight week training camp, plus an additional four weeks to "sell" his next bout, he could be competing again sometime around March 2017.

It's entirely possible that Team Wilder will lobby for another voluntary defence, citing the injury layoff as the "special circumstances" to justify delaying his mandatory defence against the winner of Povetkin-Stiverne until around June 2017 at the earliest.

An interesting point to consider is the fact that Wilder's mandatory defence was originally scheduled to take place one day shy of the one-year anniversary of the last WBC title eliminator fight between Povetkin-Perez.

It would be interesting to see if the WBC allows Wilder to engage in even more voluntary defences of his title for up to a year after the winner of the Povetkin-Stiverne bout is determined?

It's not beyond the realms of possibility that we could see a situation whereby the WBC world heavyweight champion could enjoy a three year title reign without having ever faced a mandatory challenger!
Last edited by Enlightened-One on 17 Aug 2016, 20:26, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Bermane Stiverne vs Alexander Povetkin for interim WBC title

Post by SaadOffTheDeck »

Badhusker wrote:Its pretty obvious that those of you that Wilder is glad or happy as hell he didn't have to fight Povetkin are being stupid. It wasn't his fault the fight didn't go through. He would be glad to not get the $5 million, which is about 5 times his normal purse? Guess what your opinion of what you THINK Wilder wanted, is just that, so don't act like it is fact.

Povetkin knew Wilder wanted to fight in September and January after Wilder took a fight to test his broken hand that only had a few months of healing. Povetkin swore he would not take a fight before his fight with Wilder, but did anyway, knowing he wouldn't be ready to fight Wilder in January after fighting Wach in November. Wilder was ready to fight Povetkin in January. It was Povetkin's team that needed 6 months to prepare. Wilder was ready. Now, to insinuate Wilder is glad it didn't happen, or somehow afraid of Povetkin is laughable. :doh:
:TU:
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Re: Bermane Stiverne vs Alexander Povetkin for interim WBC title

Post by punchoutsb »

This sucks.

Now Wilder will need two or three more comeback fights against guys outside the top 50 to "test his hand and bicep" and we'll be stuck listening to the same few guys defending his comp to death. Rinse and repeat til the Bronze Bomber retires at 76-0 with Bermane Stiverne going down as his best opponent.
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Re: Bermane Stiverne vs Alexander Povetkin for interim WBC title

Post by Lackeos »

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I don't think he wanted an out at all. Either way that's extreme speculation on your part. He did everything he could to make that fight. Much more willing than Povetkin was to fight wlad.
Reality: Povetkin fought Wlad in the real world.
Fantasy: Wilder wanted to fight Povetkin, despite the fact that he made 4 elective defenses against other fighters, no mandatories, angled to get out of the fight before WBC gave him an out, and then takes another year off. Deep down, Wilder wanted that fight soooo bad, he just couldn't find an opening in his schedule between all of his other elective defenses and "worthy challengers."
BAD INTENTIONS
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Re: Bermane Stiverne vs Alexander Povetkin for interim WBC title

Post by BAD INTENTIONS »

Enlightened-One wrote:
BAD INTENTIONS wrote:It's typical that most of you here choose to target the powerless Wilder in this situation.
He is just a worker like you. Why can't people understand that?
imo, it shows a weakness. You are willing to point your anger at the easy scapegoat target...
Image
FYI - All I did was list the facts.

I don't have any control over what actually transpired in the real world and nor did I make any derogatory remarks about Wilder.

I only commented on the bizarrely unfair treatment of Povetkin and my bullet-pointed list of facts wasn't intended to offend anyone. :TU:
You chose to target my nonsense political rant because my points in response to your bullets were valid.
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Re: Bermane Stiverne vs Alexander Povetkin for interim WBC title

Post by jbizzle20 »

Rob3_142 wrote:
jbizzle20 wrote:
Rob3_142 wrote:
Well the 4 names named above are the top 4 ranked in the WBC. He was ordered to fight Povetkin in a mandatory, but was called off as we all know. Was it Wilder's fault that it was called off? Of course not. Any of those names would probably be worthy of a title shot.
I'm not knocking the contenders. As I understand it (and please correct me if I am wrong as I am a noob on the politics side), Wilder is basically still the champion regardless of what happens in this fight. He basically reclaims the title when he decides to come back, making this fight meaningless in the long run.
Well nothing is happening to Wilder and his title. He is still the WBC champion. We were discussing the possibility of him relaxing the title during his injury, and offering him a free pop at the champion when he's back fit. This is all speculative, and quite unlikely to happen. What is happening though, is Povetkin is being ordered to defend his mandatory challenger position in the rankings.

Personally it's preposterous. Povetkin would have fought Wilder if it wasn't for this erroneous false drug test, thus satisfying his responsibilities with the WBC. So to order him to defend his mandatory position is a little unfair.
Yeah, I can see your point. My only guess is that the WBC is just doing this to prevent the title scene for going dormant for 6 months. I would have thought they'd make Wilder something like Champion Emeritus, like they did with Vitali Klitschko when he retired, but that's not really the case here, as I understand it. AFAIK, neither of these two are guaranteed a shot at Wilder if they win this fight. That would make it meaningless.
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Re: Bermane Stiverne vs Alexander Povetkin for interim WBC title

Post by SFW »

Povetkin was almost shamed into the Vlad fight, he was thoroughly reluctant to take it and we saw why with that embarrassing performance and subsequent whining. He gets credit for fighting, still got owned. Lesser fighters have done more in the same position, so it was really closer to a choke job on Alexander's part. Who's to say he wouldn't choke under the pressure again.. let's see how he does against Stiverne. Sucks he has to defend his mandatory position but that's the way the cookie crumbles, oh well.
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Re: Bermane Stiverne vs Alexander Povetkin for interim WBC title

Post by Enlightened-One »

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:
BAD INTENTIONS wrote:It's typical that most of you here choose to target the powerless Wilder in this situation.
He is just a worker like you. Why can't people understand that?
imo, it shows a weakness. You are willing to point your anger at the easy scapegoat target...
You chose to target my nonsense political rant because my points in response to your bullets were valid.
I never made any attempt to challenge your points.

I was merely amused by your overly-emotional reaction to a list of facts that seemed impossible to dispute and could not possibly be interpreted as derogatory in nature to Wilder by any reasonably-thinking mind.

That being said, let me see if I can address your points since you've just issued me with a challenge:
BAD INTENTIONS wrote:Wasn't Wilder was in Russia a week before the scheduled fight.
According to ESPN and the Povetkin-Wilder defamation lawsuit notes, Deontay and his team spent two weeks in Sheffield, England and never boarded their flight to Moscow.
BAD INTENTIONS wrote:Povetkin was going to get his mandatory shot on May 21, 2016 ... a one year wait that's not abnormal these days.
Actually no, based on the typical frequency of mandatory defences performed by other WBC champions.

Also, according to the WBC’s own rules, their champions must always make one mandatory defence per year… unless granted a special exception.

Deontay Wilder captured his WBC world title on the 17th January 2015 and had only agreed to face his mandatory challenger on the 21st May, 2016, which is a gap of more than 16 months.

It’s an irrefutable fact that the next time Wilder steps foot in the ring, more than two years would have passed since he initially won his world title… and he has never faced a mandatory challenger... and there is no deadline for him to do so. That is highly unusual, regardless the circumstances!
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Re: Bermane Stiverne vs Alexander Povetkin for interim WBC title

Post by BitPlayer »

Wilder is injured, so seems like a valid use of interim titles for once.
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Re: Bermane Stiverne vs Alexander Povetkin for interim WBC title

Post by jockpunk »

I'm not sure how anyone can criticize wilder for not fighting povetkin. We was in Europe just days before the fight and the cheating Russian popped for a banned substance. Had he not done so, the fight would have happened and wilder would have been $5m richer.

Povetkin has no one to blame but himself.
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Re: Bermane Stiverne vs Alexander Povetkin for interim WBC title

Post by Ilya Muromets »

Stiverne is a waste of time for Povetkin except as a stay in shape fight.
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Re: Bermane Stiverne vs Alexander Povetkin for interim WBC title

Post by Ilya Muromets »

BAD INTENTIONS wrote: Wasn't Wilder was in Russia a week before the scheduled fight.....

Hell no. He never went anywhere near Russia or Moscow where the fight was going to take place. He never had any intention of fighting Povetkin.
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Re: Bermane Stiverne vs Alexander Povetkin for interim WBC title

Post by marvelous marv »

Wilder found out the news hours before he was set to fly to Russia. He reportedly wanted to go thru with the fight regardless of what Povetkin was accused of taking. The WBC would not sanction the match. His team waited in England for clarification from the sanctioning body then they left for home until the matter was resolved. Wilder reportedly lost over 30k on travel and training expenses just for the period he was in England.
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