Amateur boxing at international level

[dalcumly]

The problem with amateur boxing at the top level is that nobody really knows anymore how a bout is scored. Coaches study contests from all over the globe and the see patterns of scoring emerge and start to train their boxers based on what they've seen. Moreover the system of selecting boxers for the Olympics is not only wrong, but probably corrupt.
Let me take the second issue first. Each country should supply a boxer for each weight category- end of story.

I hate to say it, but back in the day, EVERYBODY knew who'd won the fights - because that's what they were -fights!!! When I watched international amteur boxing as a boy, the canvas was covered in blood and everybody at ringside had to watch for the blood and snot flying all over the place. Of course this came to and end when the ludicrous headguards were introduced because 'people' didn't like to see boxers being punched too hard on the head!!!
This is the problem - if its simply a sporting contest with points being scored for 'nice' little flicks landing on the scoring area, then go back to the headguards and have some sort of electronic device fitted to the target area like fencing, and we know where we stand.

For an old 'fart' like me - its a fight. If I can knock the other guy out in the first 10 seconds, the I'm going to do it, there's less chance then of me getting whacked. If I don't have a hard punch ( like Dick McTaggart or Larry O'Connel) I make the big punchers look like fools , dancing round about , boxing the living daylights out of them. But, back in the day, boxing fans could appreciate that as well, and we all knew who'd won.
If there was an amateur tournament out my back door I wouldn't open the curtains to watch it.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I'd say it's swung back the other way, and there's definitely a little more emphasis on hard clean shots.

However, I agree that I'm no longer really sure what the scoring criteria are, especially given some of the ludicrous decisions we've seen during this Olympics.

[GlobalBox]

I do wonder having seen some of these decisions whether more than the usual amount will decide on turning pro after this Olympics.

Why wait for World Champs and Olympics etc when there is every chance of you having worked your butt off and sacrificed all sorts just to have
some slime ball take it all away from you for whatever reasons.

Turn over and get paid for your work, they certainly deserve it.

Have to say having seen many Olympics and always looked forward to the boxing, this one seems to me worrying on so many levels and although I
will complete the task and watch the whole lot, I won't be at all sorry when it's over.

[crusader]

A lot of these guys are already being paid salaries and winning bonuses, so amateur is a misnomer if the 'without remuneration' definition is assumed. In many countries professional boxing is underdeveloped (obviously not the case in the US and UK), so elite amateurs who are good enough to place well internationally may well be better off swerving the conventional pro ranks. Someone like Levit, who was robbed badly, was still assured of a $150, 000 medal bonus with his silver, although due to the dubious nature of his loss he's being paid the gold medal bonus of $250, 000.

[GlobalBox]

A lot of these guys are already being paid salaries and winning bonuses, so amateur is a misnomer if the 'without remuneration' definition is assumed. In many countries the professional boxing is underdeveloped (obviously not the case in the US and UK), so elite amateurs who are good enough to place well internationally may well be better off swerving the conventional pro ranks.

Someone like Levit, who was robbed badly, was still assured of a $150, 000 medal bonus with his silver, although due to the dubious nature of his loss he's being paid the gold medal bonus of $250, 000.

[bripez]

Its not just at international level - have you ever been to a club show ?

The lower levels of amateur boxing are also nuts - clubs wont box certain other clubs, young lads wont box certain lads as they all want to protect their record (for facebook purposes etc).

There are lads who have won multiple national titles yet have never represented their country - and don't know why as the selection criteria is not transparent.

The top funded boxers don't enter the ABA's - why not ?

Trying to break into the top squads is difficult as the selectors stick with boxers who have received funding for years.

[bripez]

elite amateurs who are good enough to place well internationally may well be better off swerving the conventional pro ranks.

I agree - particularly at the lower weights when the pro's don't get paid much.

Or if you are a lighter puncher / don't have already have a reasonable fan base to sell tickets etc.

The funded boxers get tax free lottery money, private sponsorship, free food and accommodation at Sheffield, free training facilities / physio / dieticians etc. (along with McCrackens mates like Froch and Joshua), they get to box around the world all expenses paid, and they don't have to share their purse with trainers / managers / promoters etc. never mind worry about selling tickets to their fights.

Clearly the likes of Joshua will make loads more as a pro, but the likes of the say Tom Stalker types - would he have been better off financially if he had stayed amateur ?

[jamesmcdonnell]

A lot of these guys are already being paid salaries and winning bonuses, so amateur is a misnomer if the 'without remuneration' definition is assumed. In many countries professional boxing is underdeveloped (obviously not the case in the US and UK), so elite amateurs who are good enough to place well internationally may well be better off swerving the conventional pro ranks. Someone like Levit, who was robbed badly, was still assured of a $150, 000 medal bonus with his silver, although due to the dubious nature of his loss he's being paid the gold medal bonus of $250, 000.

That's pretty good Wonga, especially if he's not sharing it. Presumably it is however taxable.

[keirw]

Three round fights are very difficult to score when the combatants are relatively evenly matched (although that is no excuse for some of the decisions in this tournament).

When evenly matched pros fight each other over 12 rounds it often takes a couple rounds for them to work one another out and it would often be the one who is able to adapt better as the fight progresses that wins over the longer distances, limiting that to three rounds seems to make it a bit of a lottery.
Particularly with the judges being so inconsistent.

[Counter-puncher]

Three round fights are very difficult to score when the combatants are relatively evenly matched (although that is no excuse for some of the decisions in this tournament).

When evenly matched pros fight each other over 12 rounds it often takes a couple rounds for them to work one another out and it would often be the one who is able to adapt better as the fight progresses that wins over the longer distances, limiting that to three rounds seems to make it a bit of a lottery.
.

this is all very true

[jamesmcdonnell]

I'm not a fan of the 3 round distance, I'd rather 4, though they'd probably fear draws, in which case it would have to be 5.

[Tomasino]

elite amateurs who are good enough to place well internationally may well be better off swerving the conventional pro ranks.

I agree - particularly at the lower weights when the pro's don't get paid much.

Or if you are a lighter puncher / don't have already have a reasonable fan base to sell tickets etc.

The funded boxers get tax free lottery money, private sponsorship, free food and accommodation at Sheffield, free training facilities / physio / dieticians etc. (along with McCrackens mates like Froch and Joshua), they get to box around the world all expenses paid, and they don't have to share their purse with trainers / managers / promoters etc. never mind worry about selling tickets to their fights.

Clearly the likes of Joshua will make loads more as a pro, but the likes of the say Tom Stalker types - would he have been better off financially if he had stayed amateur ?

I think Stalker would have been far better off as an amateur. I know a guy who was earning over 30k a year as an am. He loved it, paid holidays and plenty of cash. He stayed amateur too long to capitalise in the pros however.