Middleweight opponents Roy Jones Jr avoided in the 90's

[psychod1986]

Joe Calzaghe
Steve Collins
Robin Reid
Chris Eubank Sr
Gearld Mcclellan
Michael Nunn
Nigel Benn
Frankie Liles
Dariusz Michalezewski at light heavyweight

[BoxBuzz]

avoided? Or just missed opportunities? Do you think he was worried about a few of these? Or was it not enough money? Or their unwillingness to fight in Fla? I think he liked to fight at home during that time right?

Just curious more than suggesting anything here.

[psychod1986]

avoided? Or just missed opportunities? Do you think he was worried about a few of these? Or was it not enough money? Or their unwillingness to fight in Fla? I think he liked to fight at home during that time right?

Just curious more than suggesting anything here.

I guess there where missed opportunities because some of these guys where open to fight Jones are maybe not enough money.Did Jones get big paydays to fight bums?Like Antonio Byrd,Eric Lucas,Bryant Brannon,Richard Frazier,Richard hall,& Derrick Harmon,how much money could he got,fighting guys like this.

[Bricks]

Those "bums" were afterwards at LH. By 1996 Benn, Mclellan were retired...Collins who was levels below but talked a good game would be retired too after a year.......

Nunn and Calzaghe were the two he really should have fought......but tbh I don't personally think Warren would have matched Joe in the 90s with jones jnr........and Nunn I just think something about him irked roy......the peak nunn may emerge and upset things...but otherwise it was a low return who needs him matchup for roy so it didn't happen

[loudon]

Joe Calzaghe
Steve Collins
Robin Reid
Chris Eubank Sr
Gearld Mcclellan
Michael Nunn
Nigel Benn
Frankie Liles
Dariusz Michalezewski at light heavyweight

None of those fights were viable.

[Ruthless-RKO]

I guess there where missed opportunities because some of these guys where open to fight Jones are maybe not enough money.Did Jones get big paydays to fight bums?Like Antonio Byrd,Eric Lucas,Bryant Brannon,Richard Frazier,Richard hall,& Derrick Harmon,how much money could he got,fighting guys like this.[/quote]

Antonio Byrd - Jones earned $1.5 million and Byrd got $400,000.
Eric Lucas - Jones made $1.7 million
Bryant Brannon - N/A
Richard Frazier - N/A
Richard Hall - N/A
Derrick Harmon - Jones earned $4 million

[Ambling Alp II]

Joe Calzaghe
Steve Collins
Robin Reid
Chris Eubank Sr
Gearld Mcclellan
Michael Nunn
Nigel Benn
Frankie Liles
Dariusz Michalezewski at light heavyweight

None of those fights were viable.

Some of them were.

[Ambling Alp II]

Joe Calzaghe
Steve Collins
Robin Reid
Chris Eubank Sr
Gearld Mcclellan
Michael Nunn
Nigel Benn
Frankie Liles
Dariusz Michalezewski at light heavyweight

None of those fights were viable.

Some of them were.

[loudon]

Ambling Alp II

Some of them were.

Okay, I should have said almost all of them weren't.


Nunn obviously was because he was Roy's mandatory late in 1997.

There was only a short window to push for a fight against Gerald at MW.


As far as I'm concerned, the rest weren't really viable.

[Ambling Alp II]

Did a rundown of Jones and the fighters mentioned. Looked at when they were ranked or champion in the same weight classes as Jones.

At middleweight, Collins and McClellan were viable in 1994.. However, it was a pretty short period of time and Jones did defend the title against Thomas Tate who was respectable. Too much of a stretch to say that Jones avoided anyone.

At super middle, Collins was viable in 1995 and 1996, as was Nunn,. Benn was in 1995, Reid in 1996. You can't fight everybody, but it seems that Jones could have taken on better competition than he did.

It is a light heavyweight where it's gets apparent that he did not want to take on a challenge. Could have taken on Nunn in 1998 or 1999.
Then there is the obvious one: Michalezewski. Anytime form 1997-2003 this would have been by the biggest light heavyweight. Never happened. Instead Jones fought one stiff after another. There is enough blame to go around. But the bottom line is that Jones should have been screaming for the fight; not acting as if DM did not exist. This will always tarnish his legacy.

[BoxBuzz]

Did mzski every offer to come to Florida?

[loudon]

Ambling Alp II,

Did a rundown of Jones and the fighters mentioned. Looked at when they were ranked or champion in the same weight classes as Jones.

First off, it's nice to debate with you.

Regarding the fighters you've mentioned, that's cool, but you have to know what was happening behind the scenes etc at the time.

At middleweight, Collins and McClellan were viable in 1994.. However, it was a pretty short period of time and Jones did defend the title against Thomas Tate who was respectable. Too much of a stretch to say that Jones avoided anyone.

Collins wasn't viable in 1994. Yes, he was at MW, but being at MW and being viable are 2 completely different things. At that point, he'd recently lost all of his big fights to McCallum, Johnson and Kalambay, and without being disrespectful to anyone, he was fighting B and C class fighters in England. Why would Roy have fought him? He was the IBF champ looking at fighting Toney. It was totally unrealistic, which is what I class as not being viable. There were different networks involved, different promoters, with the fighters fighting in different countries and with no big money at stake. A complete no go.

Regarding Gerald, like I said previously, there was only really a very short window for that to have possibly happened at MW.

At super middle, Collins was viable in 1995 and 1996, as was Nunn,. Benn was in 1995, Reid in 1996. You can't fight everybody, but it seems that Jones could have taken on better competition than he did.

From the articles and interviews that I've read from 1995, it appears that Don King wanted future options on Roy, and Roy and his handlers, The Levin Bros, wouldn't allow it.

In 1996, Frankie Liles turned down a career high pay day to fight Roy. And that has been confirmed by both Seth Abraham and Lou DiBella of HBO, and Frankie's manager at the time, Jack O'Halloran. O'Halloran states that they had a great fight lined up, but Frankie blew it by going back and asking for more.

HBO also confirmed that Roy had made a 7 figure offer to Collins in 1996, but he was tied up with Benn at that point.

Michael Nunn was a great fighter, but by 1994, he'd lost to Frankie Liles and Steve Little, and he didn't have a belt.

Robin Reid wasn't viable at all in 1996. He'd fought nobody of note until he'd beaten Vincenzo Nardiello for the WBC belt. But Roy had already committed to moving up to LHW to fight Mike McCallum at that point.

It was a real shame those fights didn't materialise. But when Roy realised they weren't going to happen, he decided to move up to LHW for a fresh challenge. Which meant that guys like Collins unfortunately got left behind.

It is a light heavyweight where it's gets apparent that he did not want to take on a challenge. Could have taken on Nunn in 1998 or 1999.

That's a complete myth.

Regarding Nunn, yes, you could say he should never have messed him around and he should have fought him as he was his mandatory. But to be fair, after beating Griffin in devastating fashion in their rematch, Roy was looking to cash in on a huge HW fight. He actually signed to fight James Douglas early in 1998 for $6m. But as you're probably aware, after not speaking to Roy for almost 6 years, his father stepped forward and wouldn't allow him to go through with it due to James' size. So Roy backed off. But he then met Evander Holyfield in Atlanta to discuss a fight if Evander was interested. Evander's attorney, Jim Thomas, has confirmed the meeting in a book that he published in 1995, that detailed his memoirs as Evander's attorney for 13 years. Thomas states that Evander respectfully turned down the proposal, as at the time, he felt as though he was in in a no-win situation. So it appears that Roy did genuinely want a big money HW fight at that point. As you probably already know, when Roy relinquished his WBC LHW belt, Nunn fought Graciano for it in a vacant title match up. But even though Graciano beat Nunn, upon his return to LHW, the WBC unbelievably handed Roy his belt back. Which resulted in Graciano taking the WBC to court and suing them for millions of dollars.

Then there is the obvious one: Michalezewski. Anytime form 1997-2003 this would have been by the biggest light heavyweight. Never happened. Instead Jones fought one stiff after another. There is enough blame to go around. But the bottom line is that Jones should have been screaming for the fight; not acting as if DM did not exist. This will always tarnish his legacy.

This fight should have happened. Basically, it didn't due to neither fighter wanting to travel. Because Dariusz had been unfairly stripped of 2 of his belts, many people thought that Roy should have gone to Germany for the fight. But to be fair to Roy, he had nothing to do with Dariusz being stripped of his titles, he was considered the best fighter in the world, he had all 3 major titles at the time of negotiations, and he'd been scarred from the 88 Olympics. So I could see things from both sides. But I can tell you that serious efforts were made by Kerry Davis of HBO to try and bring Dariusz to the States.

Roy didn't fight stiff after stiff at LHW. He fought some good fighters. They included: Griffin, Hill, Johnson, Harding, Woods, and Tarver. Also, as well as trying to get Dariusz in the ring, Roy and HBO tried to secure a rematch with Bernard Hopkins in 2002, for a 168 CW. Mark Taffet of HBO has confirmed that Bernard was offered $6m, but he turned it down and demanded $10m, even though Roy already held a win over him, and he'd have had to have moved down in weight.

Again, it's a complete myth to say that Roy didn't want to challenge himself at LHW. After he'd unified the division and he couldn't fight Dariusz or Bernard, he then went up to HW to fight Ruiz. Although Ruiz wasn't a great HW, he was tough and effective, and he weighed 235 pounds. As you know, after he fought Ruiz, he then dropped back to LHW, losing actual muscle in the process, to face an extremely motivated Antonio Tarver. Those weren't the actions of a fighter who wanted to play it safe against easy opposition. Roy did challenge himself, and you also have to note that after he'd unified the division against Reggie Johnson in 1999, he then had mandatory obligations from all 3 of the main Org's. Guys like Glen Kelly and Ricky Frazier were mandatories. I think that Roy only ever fought about 7 low level, keep busy fights whilst his advisors and HBO tried to make him the biggest fights out there behind the scenes. If you look at the LHW rankings, Roy fought most of the top guys. There's a lot of people out there who share your opinion, who genuinely believe that Roy was just content to face low level mandatories for easy money, but I can assure you that that wasn't the case. Roy deserves a lot more credit than what he receives. He was an ambitious fighter. Even when he was way past his best, he fought guys like: Calzaghe, Hopkins and Lebedev.

[loudon]

Did mzski every offer to come to Florida?

In my honest opinion, Dariusz never really wanted to fight Roy.

Go and look at his resume.

He was more than content to defend his lightly regarded WBO belt in Germany for great money.

When Roy couldn't fight Dariusz, he tried to fight Hopkins again. And when that couldn't be made, he then went on to fight Ruiz and Tarver. Whereas Dariusz went on to fight guys such as: Hall, Harmon and Gonzalez etc, guys who Roy had already beaten easily. That speaks volumes to me. Also, Kerry Davis of HBO says that he could never get Dariusz's promoter to sit down and discuss any specifics with him.

[BoxBuzz]

Yep, I think the notion that Jones avoided him are just sentiment from the continentals.

[loudon]

Yep, I think the notion that Jones avoided him are just sentiment from the continentals.

I believe so.

I don't even blame Dariusz for not wanting to fight Roy. But he should never have written letters and said he was willing to go to the U.S. when he clearly wasn't. That's the issue that I have. But other than that I can see both sides. You had 2 huge egos where nobody was willing to back down.

I think Roy would have beaten him though. Personally, I think Dariusz was overrated. And I think by him not fighting Roy, it strangely enhanced his reputation.

[bollox]

It seems Jones gets heaps for not fighting Michalezewski, yet there are not many arguments for Jones losing to him

[jbizzle20]

FWIW, I would have paid big bucks to see Jones-McClellan. However, I agree that the window of opportunity was too short.

[loudon]

It seems Jones gets heaps for not fighting Michalezewski, yet there are not many arguments for Jones losing to him

Yeah, I really can't see how Dariusz would have beaten him.

[loudon]

FWIW, I would have paid big bucks to see Jones-McClellan. However, I agree that the window of opportunity was too short.

It would have been amazing.

[psychod1986]

In 1995 Steve Collins and Nigel Benn where top contenders to fight Roy Jones,in my opinion Jones ducked both of them!

[bollox]

I doubt either of them would barely have laid a glove on Jones

[loudon]

In 1995 Steve Collins and Nigel Benn where top contenders to fight Roy Jones,in my opinion Jones ducked both of them!

He didn't.

Read my earlier post.

A Benn fight was hard to make because of Don King.

When Roy couldn't unify SMW with Benn and Liles, he moved up to LHW and Collins was left behind to rematch Benn. Collins then retired. Then in 1999, he came out of retirement and went to Pensacola to try and fight and Roy, getting into the ring after Roy had beaten Ricky Frazier. I've got an enormous amount of respect for him for doing that. But HBO didn't want the fight. At that point, Collins hadn't fought for almost 2 years, he'd never fought at LHW, and Lou DiBella (HBO) preferred that Roy unified the division against Reggie Johnson instead. So that's what happened. But DiBella threw Collins a lifeline, saying that he'd like to see Collins fight Calzaghe, with the winner possibly going on to fight Roy at some point in the future. So Collins' first step was to fight on one of Joe's under cards, as Joe had already got a fight lined up. But during his camp, it was reported that Howard Eastman had knocked him down/out, and a doctor had advised him to retire. Then the reports were that unless he could get a straight shot at Roy, he wasn't motivated to fight anyone else. So at that point he ended up retiring for good.

I think Collins' toughness and iron will would have kept him there against Roy. But I don't see how he could possibly have won.

Nigel would have been extremely dangerous in the early rounds.

Regarding your list, it's very poor with names like Calzaghe and Reid on it. Robin Reid had done nothing at SMW before Roy moved up to LHW. Calzaghe wanted nothing to do with Roy, even admitting that he wasn't chasing him as he didn't want tough fights. Although he was a great fighter, he was more than content to just defend his lightly regarded WBO belt like Eubank had done before him.

You need to change the thread title, replacing the word 'avoided' with the word 'missed'

Roy didn't avoid those guys.

[loudon]

I doubt either of them would barely have laid a glove on Jones

I think Nigel would have been very dangerous early, but I couldn't envisage either of them beating Roy in his prime.

[kingliam]

Not really having seen any Roy Jones Jr (I know, I know - I'm getting back into boxing after a decent absence and mainly watched UK stuff when I was younger), are there any fights in particular that are best to showcase him at his prime?

Thanks

[loudon]

Not really having seen any Roy Jones Jr (I know, I know - I'm getting back into boxing after a decent absence and mainly watched UK stuff when I was younger), are there any fights in particular that are best to showcase him at his prime?

Thanks

Sure, and they're all available on YouTube:



Thulani Malinga (1993)

https://youtu.be/4n05g8AC7p8




Thomas Tate - 1994

https://youtu.be/z2QowQdrXeU




James Toney - 1994

https://youtu.be/3vdHJFJeijw




Vinny Pazienza - 1995 (one of my favourite fights of Roy's due to Vinny's b*alls and the unbelievable finish)

https://youtu.be/Z_K-7mAg_ew




Montell Griffin 2 - 1997 (Roy was devastating)

https://youtu.be/lqMzpf39UU0




Virgil Hill - 1998 (Roy was devastating)

https://youtu.be/6ZIBOYJWWdY




Reggie Johnson - 1999

https://youtu.be/vJOXfEA2de4




Richard Hall - 2000

https://youtu.be/gEKXgisqYDY




David Telesco - 2000

https://youtu.be/SBJHGziNZYg




Julio Gonzalez - 2001

https://youtu.be/BCFTMp8pGio




Glen Kelly - 2002 (an incredible knockout)

https://youtu.be/M3ljICMuCP4




Clinton Woods - 2002 (great entrance)

https://youtu.be/vK8IUelqnro




John Ruiz - 2003 (the pinnacle of his career)

https://youtu.be/9ynKvpgrD8c




Antonio Tarver 1 - 2003 (in my opinion, his most impressive win. It wasn't a great fight, but he rushed back from HW and to lose actual muscle to make the weight. After 8 rounds, he was absolutely exhausted. He had to dig really deep to pull out the win. Also, he made history by becoming only the 2nd guy in history to reclaim the LHW belts after dropping back from HW. A truly great win, at almost 35, in his 50th pro fight)

https://youtu.be/XkEkz-n3Zq4




Jeff Lacy - 2009 (way past his prime, but this was his last great performance)

https://youtu.be/ov7VJ0D3uqg



Enjoy.