Worst robbery of this Olympics?

[Baby Face Finster]

Boxing like all events dependent on judging should be removed from the Olympic games imo. Judges simply can not be trusted to be impartial or immune to bribes.

[fanman]

I haven't watched that many matches this year, but Vassily Levit just made Evgeny Tischenko look like a flailing retard for most of 3 rounds in the HW gold medal match, and somehow lost. Atrocious decision.

I'm with ya. Just watched this fight as well, and it was a god awful decision. Levit won all 3 rounds.

Absolutely. The 3rd round was the clearest even - clear corruption.

[gilgamesh]

I haven't watched that many matches this year, but Vassily Levit just made Evgeny Tischenko look like a flailing retard for most of 3 rounds in the HW gold medal match, and somehow lost. Atrocious decision.

I'm with ya. Just watched this fight as well, and it was a god awful decision. Levit won all 3 rounds.

Absolutely. The 3rd round was the clearest even - clear corruption.

The 3rd round there should've been at least 2 standing 8 counts, Levit stunned Tischenko clearly on a few occasions, and I've seen standing 8 counts go to other fighters in these Olympics who were taking noticeably less damage than that.

Russia bought that Gold Medal, and I'm sure will promote the bejesus out of Tischenko as a star Boxing attraction over there for as long as they can.

[Redback Rasta]

http://www.itv.com/news/utv/2016-08-18/ ... ntroversy/?

The head of Olympic boxing's governing body, AIBA, has been "reassigned with immediate effect" in the wake of judging controversy which has blighted the Rio Games.

AIBA confirmed its executive director would move to a new role within the organisation.

The decision follows the expulsion of a number of judges, believed to total six, from the Games in light of a series of officiating issues, chiefly involving defeats for Kazakhstan heavyweight Vassiliy Levit and Ireland's Michael Conlan.

One of those officials who is believed to have been sent home is another Algerian, Kheira Sidi Yakoub, who both refereed the Conlan fight and scored the heavyweight final in favour of Russia's Evgeny Tishchenko.

[hhaehre]

I'm with ya. Just watched this fight as well, and it was a god awful decision. Levit won all 3 rounds.

Absolutely. The 3rd round was the clearest even - clear corruption.

The 3rd round there should've been at least 2 standing 8 counts, Levit stunned Tischenko clearly on a few occasions, and I've seen standing 8 counts go to other fighters in these Olympics who were taking noticeably less damage than that.

Russia bought that Gold Medal, and I'm sure will promote the bejesus out of Tischenko as a star Boxing attraction over there for as long as they can.

Instead the ref decided to give Tischenko a minute of rest and recuperation while having a tiny nick examined by the doctor, a nick that didn't appear to bleed or in any way be an issue.

[greg]

Russia bought that Gold Medal, and I'm sure will promote the bejesus out of Tischenko as a star Boxing attraction over there for as long as they can.

..we certainly don't know if that gold medal was bought or not, unless you come up with some proof... the most Russian boxing fans that I know consider it a robbery...as far as promoting "the bejesus out of Tischenko" you could be right...allegedly, Tischenko and Levit were offered a contract by Ryabinski..some even claim he wants them to fight each other...

P.S: incidentally, the WORST robbery IMO was when the Russian Athletics team was collectively banned from participation in the Olympic games..

[Cent0089]

P.S: incidentally, the WORST robbery IMO was when the Russian Athletics team was collectively banned from participation in the Olympic games..

agree

[hhaehre]

P.S: incidentally, the WORST robbery IMO was when the Russian Athletics team was collectively banned from participation in the Olympic games..

agree

Disagree. They should have banned the whole team, not just the athletics team. We are talking about state organized cheating on a grand scale, banning individual athletes or only part of the team will do little to solve the problem. The solution they ended up with was half-assed and cowardly imo.

[greg]

Disagree. They should have banned the whole team, not just the athletics team. We are talking about state organized cheating on a grand scale, banning individual athletes or only part of the team will do little to solve the problem. The solution they ended up with was half-assed and cowardly imo.

...disagree, once you start applying the principle of collective responsibility, you ("collectively" speaking) might find yourself accountable legally or otherwise for something you've never done...clean sportsmen (unless proven guilty on individual basis) should not be held responsible for the wrongdoings of the system imo...

[hhaehre]

Disagree. They should have banned the whole team, not just the athletics team. We are talking about state organized cheating on a grand scale, banning individual athletes or only part of the team will do little to solve the problem. The solution they ended up with was half-assed and cowardly imo.

...disagree, once you start applying the principle of collective responsibility, you ("collectively" speaking) might find yourself accountable legally or otherwise for something you've never done...clean sportsmen (unless proven guilty on individual basis) should not be held responsible for the wrongdoings of the system imo...

This isn't a regular court of law and no individual clean Russian athlete is held legally accountable for anything. It is no human right to partake in the Olympics and Kuwait is banned from the Rio Olympics altogether. Athletes, including Russian track&field athletes, can still compete as independent athletes.

[greg]

Disagree. They should have banned the whole team, not just the athletics team. We are talking about state organized cheating on a grand scale, banning individual athletes or only part of the team will do little to solve the problem. The solution they ended up with was half-assed and cowardly imo.

...disagree, once you start applying the principle of collective responsibility, you ("collectively" speaking) might find yourself accountable legally or otherwise for something you've never done...clean sportsmen (unless proven guilty on individual basis) should not be held responsible for the wrongdoings of the system imo...

This isn't a regular court of law and no individual clean Russian athlete is held legally accountable for anything. It is no human right to partake in the Olympics and Kuwait is banned from the Rio Olympics altogether. Athletes, including Russian track&field athletes, can still compete as independent athletes.

...we are talking about a report put together in just about 50 days by a lawyer and a recommendation of WADA based on this report to ban the whole team of about 400 sportsmen from the Olympics...come to think of it 400 people (clean sportsmen tested I believe by the British anti-doping officials) based on a 90+ pages report. The report was not even completed as the investigation is still underway...is there a link confirming that track&field athletes could still compete as independent athletes? ..not sure they had that alternative...

[jamesmcdonnell]

Disagree. They should have banned the whole team, not just the athletics team. We are talking about state organized cheating on a grand scale, banning individual athletes or only part of the team will do little to solve the problem. The solution they ended up with was half-assed and cowardly imo.

...disagree, once you start applying the principle of collective responsibility, you ("collectively" speaking) might find yourself accountable legally or otherwise for something you've never done...clean sportsmen (unless proven guilty on individual basis) should not be held responsible for the wrongdoings of the system imo...

This isn't a regular court of law and no individual clean Russian athlete is held legally accountable for anything. It is no human right to partake in the Olympics and Kuwait is banned from the Rio Olympics altogether. Athletes, including Russian track&field athletes, can still compete as independent athletes.

Why are Kuwait banned?

[Counter-puncher]

...disagree, once you start applying the principle of collective responsibility, you ("collectively" speaking) might find yourself accountable legally or otherwise for something you've never done...clean sportsmen (unless proven guilty on individual basis) should not be held responsible for the wrongdoings of the system imo...

This isn't a regular court of law and no individual clean Russian athlete is held legally accountable for anything. It is no human right to partake in the Olympics and Kuwait is banned from the Rio Olympics altogether. Athletes, including Russian track&field athletes, can still compete as independent athletes.

Why are Kuwait banned?

they refused to let an Israeli official into the country for some event or other

[jamesmcdonnell]

This isn't a regular court of law and no individual clean Russian athlete is held legally accountable for anything. It is no human right to partake in the Olympics and Kuwait is banned from the Rio Olympics altogether. Athletes, including Russian track&field athletes, can still compete as independent athletes.

Why are Kuwait banned?

they refused to let an Israeli official into the country for some event or other

Well, good riddance to them then. No sympathy. Though I reckon the Israeli official was probably glad. We have an Israeli trainer who works for us, and he won't go anywhere in the Arab world outside of Dubai, not because he hates then, but because he knows there's a good chance he will have serious problems, either getting in, or once he gets there.

[Cent0089]

Dunaytsev and Hrgovic robbed today (Yoka did not win a single round)

[gilgamesh]

Russia bought that Gold Medal, and I'm sure will promote the bejesus out of Tischenko as a star Boxing attraction over there for as long as they can.

..we certainly don't know if that gold medal was bought or not, unless you come up with some proof... the most Russian boxing fans that I know consider it a robbery...as far as promoting "the bejesus out of Tischenko" you could be right...allegedly, Tischenko and Levit were offered a contract by Ryabinski..some even claim he wants them to fight each other...

P.S: incidentally, the WORST robbery IMO was when the Russian Athletics team was collectively banned from participation in the Olympic games..

Maybe you don't know the Gold Medal was bought or not, but when we're talking about a country that a State Sponsored doping scandal prior to the Olympics them buying Medals in a corruptible sport like Boxing I find very, very easy to believe.

[greg]

Russia bought that Gold Medal, and I'm sure will promote the bejesus out of Tischenko as a star Boxing attraction over there for as long as they can.

..we certainly don't know if that gold medal was bought or not, unless you come up with some proof... the most Russian boxing fans that I know consider it a robbery...as far as promoting "the bejesus out of Tischenko" you could be right...allegedly, Tischenko and Levit were offered a contract by Ryabinski..some even claim he wants them to fight each other...

P.S: incidentally, the WORST robbery IMO was when the Russian Athletics team was collectively banned from participation in the Olympic games..

Maybe you don't know the Gold Medal was bought or not, but when we're talking about a country that a State Sponsored doping scandal prior to the Olympics them buying Medals in a corruptible sport like Boxing I find very, very easy to believe.

...I can believe in a lot of things regarding sport, politics, etc...unless I have a proof though it will still be an allegation...

Incidentally, a lot of observers believe Joshua lost to Savon 4 years ago..should we assume the worst?

[Redback Rasta]

Dunaytsev and Hrgovic robbed today (Yoka did not win a single round)

Rio will surely be remembered for robberies, both inside and outside the ring.

Have lost count of the number of athletes and officials who have been taken to ATMs at gunpoint etc.

[Rob3_142]

The controversies are not just reserved for the boxing. There's been a plethora of disqualifications in the athletics which have raised a lot of eyebrows.

- Ezekiel Kemboi was DQ'd from the 3000m steeplechase, thus conceding the bronze for stepping half a foot over the line upon landing after the water jump (a slight stumble upon landing taking his foot slightly over the line).

- US 4x100m men's team also DQ'd forfeiting bronze for exchanging the baton ON the line.

- GB 4x400m men's team DQ'd for.....well the jury is still out on that one. Awaiting some further information from the officials. This disqualification means the Brazilian team qualify as 8th fastest.

I agree that athletes should be DQ'd for infringing thresholds, but surely a disqualification should be a matter of attempting to gain an unfair advantage on your opposition. Many pundits are questioning the decisions, and have determined that they are being far too harsh on athletes.

[Rob3_142]

Russia bought that Gold Medal, and I'm sure will promote the bejesus out of Tischenko as a star Boxing attraction over there for as long as they can.

..we certainly don't know if that gold medal was bought or not, unless you come up with some proof... the most Russian boxing fans that I know consider it a robbery...as far as promoting "the bejesus out of Tischenko" you could be right...allegedly, Tischenko and Levit were offered a contract by Ryabinski..some even claim he wants them to fight each other...

P.S: incidentally, the WORST robbery IMO was when the Russian Athletics team was collectively banned from participation in the Olympic games..

Worst robbery? How about all the athletes that lost medals for years due to the premeditated cheating which was going on at the hands of the Russian Federation? Is that not a greater robbery?

Who do you think is more at fault for the banning of the Russian Athletes from the athletics? IAAF? Or the Russian Federation?

How can you possibly justify not banning all Russian Athletes? As far as we can possibly be concerned, that thanks to the Russian Federation, every single athlete could have been sponsored for doping. It wasn't even a case of 'Hey, take this, it'll make you win a gold medal'. It was more like 'Oh well it's not cheating, everyone else is taking drugs...' Russian Athletes had the chance to compete at the Olympics if they could prove their innocence, as Darya Klishina did in the long jump, I don't know why there wasn't more - I just don't know what the process was.

The IAAF is in a position that they cannot possibly know who is cheating in the Russian team. You 100% know it is happening, but cannot differentiate between those innocent and those guilty. You cannot just give a blanket green light to all athletes knowing that many of them are dirty. As a result you would be basically saying you know there's cheats, but you're going to let them go up against clean athletes anyway. All I can say to the clean Russian athletes is; your country has let you down, and that's where the finger of blame should be pointed towards.

[greg]

Russia bought that Gold Medal, and I'm sure will promote the bejesus out of Tischenko as a star Boxing attraction over there for as long as they can.

..we certainly don't know if that gold medal was bought or not, unless you come up with some proof... the most Russian boxing fans that I know consider it a robbery...as far as promoting "the bejesus out of Tischenko" you could be right...allegedly, Tischenko and Levit were offered a contract by Ryabinski..some even claim he wants them to fight each other...

P.S: incidentally, the WORST robbery IMO was when the Russian Athletics team was collectively banned from participation in the Olympic games..

Worst robbery? How about all the athletes that lost medals for years due to the premeditated cheating which was going on at the hands of the Russian Federation? Is that not a greater robbery?

Who do you think is more at fault for the banning of the Russian Athletes from the athletics? IAAF? Or the Russian Federation?

How can you possibly justify not banning all Russian Athletes? As far as we can possibly be concerned, that thanks to the Russian Federation, every single athlete could have been sponsored for doping. It wasn't even a case of 'Hey, take this, it'll make you win a gold medal'. It was more like 'Oh well it's not cheating, everyone else is taking drugs...' Russian Athletes had the chance to compete at the Olympics if they could prove their innocence, as Darya Klishina did in the long jump, I don't know why there wasn't more - I just don't know what the process was.

The IAAF is in a position that they cannot possibly know who is cheating in the Russian team. You 100% know it is happening, but cannot differentiate between those innocent and those guilty. You cannot just give a blanket green light to all athletes knowing that many of them are dirty. As a result you would be basically saying you know there's cheats, but you're going to let them go up against clean athletes anyway. All I can say to the clean Russian athletes is; your country has let you down, and that's where the finger of blame should be pointed towards.

...I guess you misunderstood me...
1. I'm talking about these Games and not those in London 4 years ago and earlier. What happened or didn't happen earlier is not part of this discussion.
2. you say that the "IAAF is in a position that they cannot possibly know who is cheating in the Russian team" - My question: why NOT? every other federation COULD and IAAF can't...
3. British anti-doping Agency took over the testing of the Russian sportsmen in preparation for these Games. Right? The samples were taken out of the country to be analysed.
4. All international federations except for IAAF agreed with MOC decision to additionally look at each and every sportsman/woman. A 3-steps procedure was put in place to make sure everyone was clean...
5. Russian weight-lifters were banned from Olympics. The Federation looked at them individually and banned them. NO problem with that. Can be banned for life

What I initially meant was basically: Why couldn't the IAAF do the same? Everyone else did it. I believe they ROBBED clean athletes of their chance to participate in the Olympics. Simple as that...to avoid any further misundestanding my point is ban the cheats and punish all those directly involved in this major scam but let the clean athletes compete...

[Rob3_142]

..we certainly don't know if that gold medal was bought or not, unless you come up with some proof... the most Russian boxing fans that I know consider it a robbery...as far as promoting "the bejesus out of Tischenko" you could be right...allegedly, Tischenko and Levit were offered a contract by Ryabinski..some even claim he wants them to fight each other...

P.S: incidentally, the WORST robbery IMO was when the Russian Athletics team was collectively banned from participation in the Olympic games..

Worst robbery? How about all the athletes that lost medals for years due to the premeditated cheating which was going on at the hands of the Russian Federation? Is that not a greater robbery?

Who do you think is more at fault for the banning of the Russian Athletes from the athletics? IAAF? Or the Russian Federation?

How can you possibly justify not banning all Russian Athletes? As far as we can possibly be concerned, that thanks to the Russian Federation, every single athlete could have been sponsored for doping. It wasn't even a case of 'Hey, take this, it'll make you win a gold medal'. It was more like 'Oh well it's not cheating, everyone else is taking drugs...' Russian Athletes had the chance to compete at the Olympics if they could prove their innocence, as Darya Klishina did in the long jump, I don't know why there wasn't more - I just don't know what the process was.

The IAAF is in a position that they cannot possibly know who is cheating in the Russian team. You 100% know it is happening, but cannot differentiate between those innocent and those guilty. You cannot just give a blanket green light to all athletes knowing that many of them are dirty. As a result you would be basically saying you know there's cheats, but you're going to let them go up against clean athletes anyway. All I can say to the clean Russian athletes is; your country has let you down, and that's where the finger of blame should be pointed towards.

...I guess you misunderstood me...
1. I'm talking about these Games and not those in London 4 years ago and earlier. What happened or didn't happen earlier is not part of this discussion.
2. you say that the "IAAF is in a position that they cannot possibly know who is cheating in the Russian team" - My question: why NOT? every other federation COULD and IAAF can't...
3. British anti-doping Agency took over the testing of the Russian sportsmen in preparation for these Games. Right? The samples were taken out of the country to be analysed.
4. All international federations except for IAAF agreed with MOC decision to additionally look at each and every sportsman/woman. A 3-steps procedure was put in place to make sure everyone was clean...
5. Russian weight-lifters were banned from Olympics. The Federation looked at them individually and banned them. NO problem with that. Can be banned for life

What I initially meant was basically: Why couldn't the IAAF do the same? Everyone else did it. I believe they ROBBED clean athletes of their chance to participate in the Olympics. Simple as that...to avoid any further misundestanding my point is ban the cheats and punish all those directly involved in this major scam but let the clean athletes compete...

I guess I must have misunderstood you, because as I understood it, you were justifying Russia's actions and their attitude to doping. What kind of idiot would think that?

1. Russia's doping over the last 5 years is every part of this discussion, which is leading me to believe you have absolutely no idea how doping works. You have to realise an unknown portion of Russian athletes have been doping since 2011. Without detection, without consequence, picking global medals across summer and winter sports. The doping only came to light just prior to the Rio Olympics. The Russian's did not just cease the doping as Rio was approaching, and only when whistle blowers started blowing the Russian's cover did it become a problem. Given the timeframe, WADA was put in a terrible position and forced to make a decision regarding Rio.

2. The reason that other countries knew which athletes were doping, was because they tested them, and then banned athletes that were found doping. You are aware that each country is responsible for testing their own athletes? So Britain has UKAD (UK anti doping), the US has USADA (US anti doping agency) and Russia has RUSADA (Russian anti doping agency). RUSADA were directing, controlling and overseeing the manipulation of urine samples provided by its athletes, with positive samples going missing. The IAAF are responsible for testing during competition. They are also responsible for withdrawing athletes registration to competitions under the advise of the doping control of that specific country. As you can imagine, if Russia aren't telling the IAAF that their athletes are dirty, then they're none the wiser.

3. The British did not take over the overseeing of the Russian testing. WADA closed down some of the Wada-accredited labs, and I believe samples were removed and re-tested. I speculate this is still ongoing (that is a lot of samples over 5 years).

4. There was just not enough time to allow each case to be heard individually prior to the games. It was reported that there was 580 positive tests across 30 sports covered up. The IOC had a few months to decide what to do. Because it would take a long time to collect all the relevant evidence and come to the best conclusion, the only option was to place a blanket ban across all athletes, in all sports. The IOC decided to leave that decision to each sports governing body, and only IAAF and IWF issued a blanket ban (there was more manipulated tests in athletics and weightlifting than any other sport).

5. I'm not entirely sure what it is you're getting at here. You're saying it's okay to issue a blanket ban to weightlifters (where there was only 10 competing athletes in Rio), but not okay to do a blanket ban of athletics athletes?

Listen, I don't blame you, you're just not well informed. I advise you do some reading on;

- How doping works
- what exactly it was that was so wrong by Russia

Than have a think about if you think what they did was alright, and what the appropriate punishment would be.

[greg]

I guess I must have misunderstood you, because as I understood it, you were justifying Russia's actions and their attitude to doping. What kind of idiot would think that?

1. Russia's doping over the last 5 years is every part of this discussion, which is leading me to believe you have absolutely no idea how doping works. You have to realise an unknown portion of Russian athletes have been doping since 2011. Without detection, without consequence, picking global medals across summer and winter sports. The doping only came to light just prior to the Rio Olympics. The Russian's did not just cease the doping as Rio was approaching, and only when whistle blowers started blowing the Russian's cover did it become a problem. Given the timeframe, WADA was put in a terrible position and forced to make a decision regarding Rio.

2. The reason that other countries knew which athletes were doping, was because they tested them, and then banned athletes that were found doping. You are aware that each country is responsible for testing their own athletes? So Britain has UKAD (UK anti doping), the US has USADA (US anti doping agency) and Russia has RUSADA (Russian anti doping agency). RUSADA were directing, controlling and overseeing the manipulation of urine samples provided by its athletes, with positive samples going missing. The IAAF are responsible for testing during competition. They are also responsible for withdrawing athletes registration to competitions under the advise of the doping control of that specific country. As you can imagine, if Russia aren't telling the IAAF that their athletes are dirty, then they're none the wiser.

3. The British did not take over the overseeing of the Russian testing. WADA closed down some of the Wada-accredited labs, and I believe samples were removed and re-tested. I speculate this is still ongoing (that is a lot of samples over 5 years).

4. There was just not enough time to allow each case to be heard individually prior to the games. It was reported that there was 580 positive tests across 30 sports covered up. The IOC had a few months to decide what to do. Because it would take a long time to collect all the relevant evidence and come to the best conclusion, the only option was to place a blanket ban across all athletes, in all sports. The IOC decided to leave that decision to each sports governing body, and only IAAF and IWF issued a blanket ban (there was more manipulated tests in athletics and weightlifting than any other sport).

5. I'm not entirely sure what it is you're getting at here. You're saying it's okay to issue a blanket ban to weightlifters (where there was only 10 competing athletes in Rio), but not okay to do a blanket ban of athletics athletes?

Listen, I don't blame you, you're just not well informed. I advise you do some reading on;

- How doping works
- what exactly it was that was so wrong by Russia

Than have a think about if you think what they did was alright, and what the appropriate punishment would be.

I appreciate your advice, however I believe we keep deviating from the initial statement which sparked off this discussion. What I said was I quote "the WORST robbery IMO was when the Russian Athletics team was collectively banned from participation in the Olympic games" and that was my response to the OP question regarding worst robbery of this Olympics..No more and no less...

What I MEANT: IAAF was wrong issuing the blanket ban. They should have done IMO what all other international federations have, they had enough time for that. They showed however no intention to as opposed to all other international governing bodies. They took the easiest path by collectively punishing a group of athletes (about 70 athletes) including a large number of clean ones. I think it should be clear now what I said and I meant..

[Boxing Writer]

Dunaytsev and Hrgovic robbed today (Yoka did not win a single round)

I disagree. I think Gaibnazarov clearly won rounds 2 and 3, so I see no controversy in his win over Dunaytsev at all. As for Yoka vs Hrgovic, I think Hrgovic was definitely better man in the ring, but he was a victim rather of awful scoring system than judges. Rond 1 was close but claer for Yoka, and round two was even in my opinion. Hrgovic dminated the whole third round, but trailing 18-20 on two cards he had to KO Yoka to win this fight. I think current scoring system is awful for 3-round fights. You can win 2 rounds by the slimmest margin and then got your ass whooped for all 3 minutes of the third round, and you will still win the fight. It's just wrong.

[Rob3_142]

Dunaytsev and Hrgovic robbed today (Yoka did not win a single round)

I disagree. I think Gaibnazarov clearly won rounds 2 and 3, so I see no controversy in his win over Dunaytsev at all. As for Yoka vs Hrgovic, I think Hrgovic was definitely better man in the ring, but he was a victim rather of awful scoring system than judges. Rond 1 was close but claer for Yoka, and round two was even in my opinion. Hrgovic dminated the whole third round, but trailing 18-20 on two cards he had to KO Yoka to win this fight. I think current scoring system is awful for 3-round fights. You can win 2 rounds by the slimmest margin and then got your ass whooped for all 3 minutes of the third round, and you will still win the fight. It's just wrong.

But surely that's an argument for having 10-9 for the close rounds and then something like 10-8 or 10-7 for the more dominant rounds. I don't understand how rounds are almost always scored 10-9 irrespective of what happens in the three minutes (perhaps 10-8 if there's a knockdown). Isn't the whole point of having a graded system is that it's actually graded? Otherwise you might just give 1 point for the person who won the round.