John Henry Lewis

[Hookie]

Lewis went 103-8-6-60 overall and 5-1-2 in world title fights at LHW and HW. He started his career 26-0-1-17 and beat James J. Braddock W10 along the way, he would go 1-1 against him lifetime. His first loss was to Maxie Rosenbloom, who he went 2-3 against lifetime. He also beat Emilio Martinez(3-1-1Ko against him), Bob Olin(3-0-1Ko vs him), Tiger Jack Fox Ko3, Jock McAvoy W15, Len Harvey W15, Isidoro Gastanaga(1-1-1Ko vs him), and Elmer Ray Ko12. He was only stopped once, Ko1 Louis. He lost to Louis in his 117th bout, his last. Lewis was good, someone had stated Lewis was better than Ezzard Charles. I would rate Charles ahead of Lewis. Charles faced and beat the better opposition. Lewis record looks good, but he beat alot of lower level fighters.

[dmille]

John Henry Lewis fought ALL the top comp of his era. He fought the guys that were there to fight.

You neglect to mention the fact that John Henry was only 25 when he was forced to retire due to failing eye sight. He didn't have today's medical breakthroughs available to him.

My Ring Record Book says that he made 5 title defenses. Had his eyes been okay, he would have defined his career against Billy Conn who grabbed the title after JHL vacated it. If he defeated Conn (no small task), then a total of 10 or more title defenses on his record would not have been out of the question.

Conn's career is more defined by his losses to Joe Louis than by any single win at light heavy because he won the vacant title. Had he won it directly from Lewis, there would be something more to point to in his record.

Ezz may or may not have been a better fighter than Lewis. The fact is that they never fought each other. Charles didn't turn pro (as a middle) until after John Henry retired.

BUT Ezz didn't have health problems or an- in-his-prime Joe Louis to contend with.

_________________
The United States of America is an eternal thought in the mind of GOD.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: dmille on 2002-02-21 17:02 ]</font>

[DAN C.]

In addition to failing eyesight JOHN HENRY LEWIS was reportedly a sick man when he fought JOE LOUIS in 1939. JOE was a freind of his and it was his intention to end it as mercifully as possible. He did. That fight was strictly for JOHN HENRY to get one big payday before calling it quits. JOHN HENRY LEWIS was one of only two black fighters that LOUIS fought while he was champ, the other being WALCOTT. Have to go with both CONN and CHARLES over JOHN HENRY, but this guy was a good fighter capable of having a great night. Dan Coli

[BoxBuzz]

Here's an underated fighter. Splitting with Rosenbloom and KO'ing Tiger Fox.....Beating Braddock and Ray....only KO'd once...by Joe Louis.
103-8-6-60ko's overall

Could he have been spoon fed easy paydays? I heard a rumor that such things went on back in the day.

He was a genuine talent. IN this case I do believe he earned his good rep.

[dr_devious]

His wins over two of Britain's finest ever in Len Harvey and Jock McAvoy are considerable.

JHL's a top ten light heavy all time for me

[APerno]

.

Trivial fact: When he was only 16 John Henry Lewis was arrested in Arizona after knocking out one Sam Terrin in three rounds (03/11/31), who died after the fight - authorities cleared him when an autopsy revealed that Terrin entered the ring with a heart condition. - I would ask, why arrest him? - but then again it was Arizona, so I guess that answers it

[Caractacus]

and may I arsk what is wrong with the state of Arizona ?
Its a fine state.
Many people from the North have gone down there to retire over the decades.
You just dont see too many people wanting to retire and spend their golden years in someplace like New Jersey,ya know ?

[Caractacus]

AlPeno (if thats your real time)
I think you may be watching too much TV.

[Caractacus]

furthermore you neglected to mention that Sam Terrin (who may or may not have been a 'person of colour",
was only 21 years old and the town he died in the ring (Prescott)was also his hometown.
So of course they townspeople(which probably included a sizable number of his own kinfolk)
were more then a little upset then if he was just some hoboing boxer from up north.
Did they arrest John Henry Lewis after the autopsy when it was revealed he had a heart defect ?
Man,You liberals.

[Ambling Alp II]

Just started reading this thread and shots are being taking at liberals and people from Arizona? Not exactly what I thought.
Anyway, the point made about Lewis' age is interestong. To have over 100 fights before he was even 25 is amazing.
A Conn-Lewis rivalry coud have easily happened. Conn was only three years younger.
Lewis is a guy that doesn't get the attention that he deserves.

[Kalan]

I'm not big on John Henry Lewis.. His record was loaded with cherry picking... He fought only one (1) LHW Title defense -- against Al Gainer who was in the process of losing 6 of his last 11 fights... with 4 wins over very green or very undistinguished fighters.

The only video record of Lewis, is him looking completely pathetic getting obliterated very quickly by Lewis.

[Ambling Alp II]

Glad that you are now looking at quality of competition.
However, you are off base with Lewis. Jock McVoy, Len Harvey, and Bob Olin were all experienced, good fighters that Lewis defended the title against.

Lewis also beat Braddock, and Rosenbloom (twice) before he ever got a title shot.

[dr_devious]

McAvoy and Harvey are two of Britain's best ever

[Kalan]

Lewis had a 1-1 record versus Braddock -- who's loss to Lewis was his 15th loss in 23 fights. Hardly an accomplishment to beat Braddock when he did.

Lewis had a losing record versus Rosenbloom -- 2 wins 3 losses...so he didn't exactly have his number.. Lewis was given a World Title shot after he lost his 2 previous fights -- not generally how you earn a world title fight is it??? ... Then Lewis lost his next fight for his 3rd loss in 4 fights.

A little off the subject, but Lewis fought Jimmy Adamick who was rumored to be in numerous fixed fights. When Adamick fought Lewis he was under suspension by the Illinois Athletic Commission -- for his involvement in an obvious fixed fight with Jack Trammell who tanked his fight with Adamick in a stunningly obvious way. The promoter of that fight was suspended for 5 years. Nowadays when one commission suspends a boxer other commissions generally enforce the suspension so it has teeth. That didn't happen as much in those days.

[Kalan]

McAvoy and Harvey are two of Britain's best ever

Not they weren't... Few even heard of them... Britain's best were guys like Lewis, Conteh, Hatton, Turpin, McGuigan, Bruno, Figg, Buchanan etc.

[cfang]

McAvoy and Harvey are two of Britain's best ever

Not they weren't... Few even heard of them... Britain's best were guys like Lewis, Conteh, Hatton, Turpin, McGuigan, Bruno, Figg, Buchanan etc.

Harvey and mcavoy are two of the greatest fighters ever from the uk. That is fact! Both far far superior to Bruno for a start. You need to watch more films and read more books rather than just records and who beat who.

[dr_devious]

McAvoy and Harvey are two of Britain's best ever

Not they weren't... Few even heard of them... Britain's best were guys like Lewis, Conteh, Hatton, Turpin, McGuigan, Bruno, Figg, Buchanan etc.

Figg............says it all

[Kalan]

Figg held the title for 11 years and had a record of 269-1... He was the world's greatest boxer in his day.

Bruno got a number of World Title shots and won one... Something those 2 unknown boys never did.

[Kalan]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/6611 ... f-all-time

Any British list I've seen doesn't have those boys on it.

[gilgamesh]

McAvoy and Harvey are two of Britain's best ever

Not they weren't... Few even heard of them... Britain's best were guys like Lewis, Conteh, Hatton, Turpin, McGuigan, Bruno, Figg, Buchanan etc.

I'm not familiar with Figg, but a fighter with a 269-1 record is a fighter I'd like to know more about. What's his first name?

[gilgamesh]

Nevermind, answered my own question. One of the 'ol bareknuckle crew. James Figg

We'll never know for sure if Figg compiled the record he's listed at do to the dodgy record keeping of those days, but if he indeed had a record anywhere near as excellent as 269-1 that is indeed a truly phenomenal accomplishment.

Some of the old Bareknuckle Legends are interesting to talk about, but their skills mostly wouldn't translate the same in the Marquees of Queensbury rules era of Boxing.

[Kalan]

It was still boxing.. But was bare knuckles.. You couldn't hide behind your gloves like a modern boxer.. More cuts and more facial damage probably.. You had to be slicker slipping punches.. Your hands needed to be stronger because gloves were invented to protect the hands,.

It's still the art of hitting without being hit---but I prefer the Queenberry rules because they make the game a lot safer and you don't have to worry about your hands being mangled up.. They used to allow only 10 yards of gauze per hand and there were still a lot of busted hands and messed up hands.. Nowadays they allow you to put tons of gauze on your knuckles. Guys are looking like they're carrying around cotton bails before they get gloved up.

[APerno]

AlPeno (if thats your real time)
I think you may be watching too much TV.

This is the second or third time you attacked me directly, but because I believe you and I are much closer in attitude than you would ever like to believe I am going to, just this one time, answer you directly and honestly.

First off, attacking the State of New Jersey is like kicking a three legged dog; Jersey had so many problems of its own that bad-mouthing New Jersey is just piling-on.

Second in regards to my Arizona comment, considered it a nod to Arizona’s rise to becoming one of the prominent States (politically speaking) of the union. You are correct, the Phoenix metropolitan area is the fastest growing metropolitan area in America, and if Arizona is going to take its place as a top tier State then it is going to have to learn to take some crap. It is a rule of American politics; if you doubt my claim ask California, Texas, Florida, or New York how often they have been unfairly ‘rabbit punched.’

So consider my Arizona statement just spit-balling (yes, an unfair, unsubstantiated, and unjustifiable statement) offered in a nation full of spit-ballers. If Arizona wants to play with the big states than everything it does from now on is going to be scrutinized and judged (often unfairly) and if Arizona doesn’t want to take the crap that goes with being in the top tier than it is best it go back to being Nebraska in the desert; and then it can go back to being ignored.

Now in the particular, I thought I made it clear that Lewis was released after the autopsy. But the gist of my challenge lays in the fact that Lewis should never have been detained in the first place. I am certain that everyone on this board agrees that when one of these warrior, those fighters we all so respect, climbs through the ropes, he knows full well that he is placing his life in jeopardy, and if what occurred that night was in-fact a sanctioned (legal) prize fight, then regardless of Lewis status as a drifter or hobo, the State of Arizona should not have detained him pending and autopsy; the State of Arizona should have respected the sanctity of the ring. Prize fighters die, that is a reality of the fight game and the surviving fighter should never be held accountable, autopsy or no autopsy. Arizona was wrong.

About me: I am not a liberal, I am not a conservative, I am not even merely a cynic, after 43 years of historical study, and 30 years as a high school history teacher, I like to believe I have self-actualized; I am a misanthrope. I hold nothing in esteem (and I truly mean nothing) except the Constitution of the United States of America, and like an evangelical minister who can site chapter and verse the Holly Bible; I am the rarest of Americans: I am someone who can site article and section the Constitution of the United States. It is my holy bible. I despise both the left and right; those self-proclaimed protectors of the sacred document who readily point to the other side as maligners, but remain conveniently blind to their own warts. Screw both of them.

Also, because of my misanthropic nature, when I encounter someone who wears his political beliefs on his sleeve; someone who has a big red button on him that says ‘don’t push or else,’ I am always going to push that button. It is this nature of mine, as a deliberate button pusher, that makes me believe you and I may be more alike than you want to believe. And because I believe we are of the same ilk, I want to share with you what I believe to be one of the apexes of my button pushing (boxing wise). Back in ’93 I succeeded in getting so far under the skin of one of the boxing writers, (Ed Maloney, World Boxing) that I actually got this guy to devote an entire column of his feature article, “Getting My Irish Up” to attacking me personally (by name no less). As a fellow ‘button pusher’ I am sure you can appreciate with what glee I read that article. (World Boxing, April 1993, page 15) I consider it a personal triumph.

So if you want to go tit-for-tat with me, that’s OK, but just calling me a liberal or a communist isn’t going to do it, you are going to have to be a bit wittier. Like the line “you watch too much TV,” now that was a good line, which got me to smile and acknowledge you.

My name is Anthony Perno, thus: APerno and I always post under my own name; I never use a pseudonym that would cowardly. (I live in southwest Florida.)

P.S. Bergen County, New Jersey has one of the highest mean property values in the nation; North Jersey is a well-kept secret; all of its major cities on the other hand are both economic and physical disasters. Newark is constantly identified as one of the worst places in America to live. Thomas Jefferson once stated that the juxtaposition of wealth and poverty, living side-by-side, is akin to ‘a live man being shackled to a corpse.’ Such is the plight of New Jersey.

P.S.S. I just need to add this, I once encountered (I believe it was in a documentary by the British historian Allister Cooke, entitled “America”) that Abraham Lincoln use to tell New Jersey jokes. I am serious, Abe Lincoln use to tell New Jersey jokes. It is amazing but that poor little State has been maligned for almost two centuries.

See you in the funny papers.

[Kalan]

Lewis should never have been detained in the first place. I am certain that everyone on this board agrees that when one of these warrior, those fighters we all so respect, climbs through the ropes, he knows full well that he is placing his life in jeopardy, and if what occurred that night was in-fact a sanctioned (legal) prize fight

It's shocking that John Henry Lewis would be arrested because an opponent died in a fight. That would be like a fire fighter rushing into a burning building, grabs a man who passed out, and runs out carrying his body... and afterwards he's arrested because the man he tried to save died of smoke inhalation.. or a surgeon being arrested because the person his team was trying to transplant a heart for died on the operating table.. In certain jobs, death can be part of the job.. People in law enforcement should understand this more than most.

[scorpio83]

What I've found about John Henry Lewis that this past season of Finding Your Roots, DNA revealed that he was rapper L.L. Cool J's great-uncle and John Henry's brother Christy Lewis was the biological father of LL's mother.