Thomas Hearns v Sugar Ray Leonard 2

[Kalan]

Norris also once said of hearns. ."hell no, why would I?"

Norris never said that... He wanted both Leonard and Hearns... The reason he did??? They both looked so slow and hittable at that stage. Norris out-sped Leonard like nobody's business - Hearns was easier to hit than Leonard... They both got tagged up like crazy. Obviously Norris could be had too.

Norris had a notoriously vulnerable chin. He even got knocked out in sparring sessions. But Hearns had a bad chin as well -- even the slow swinging Barkley found the mark.. Leonard couldn't hang any good ones on Norris---but Ray hung some good shots on Hearns in both fights.. Leonard didn't seem to have any oomph on his punches in his last 4 fights. He couldn't punch sharply enough to get Tommy out twice, but only had 12 rounds to work with in their rematch. Hearns was ahead of Leonard on points in both fights---but he got hurt badly whenever Leonard hit him sharply in both fights. Why not tear into the guy when you see that he's hurt???

If an opponent has a weak chin you need to tear after him like he slapped your mother - the way Hagler did to Hearns... Marvelous wasn't pacing himself. He wasn't saving ANYTHING for the late rounds. Hagler wanted Hearns out cold on the canvas as soon as he could arrange it.. like Errol Spence ripping after Chris Algieri and Danny Garcia going after Amir Khan with tremendous swings.. If a guy can't take it you need to give it too him.

Leonard had a solid chin. Camacho was the only guy to stop him -- so I was hoping Ray would stay on Hearns in both fights and get him out in five rounds.

[gilgamesh]

In the case of Chris Algieri I wouldn't say he has a bad chin per se, he's just such a weak puncher that there's no reason not to attack him full force because you know that nothing coming back from him is gonna have much force on it. Spence attacked the hell out of him appropriately because of this understanding and got him outta there.

[gilgamesh]

Hearns had more career longevity than Leonard. Leonard lost in one sided fashion to Terry Norris and Hector Camacho in his last 2 fights in 1991 and 1997 respectively. Hearns was still capable of beating the likes of Virgil Hill in 1991, and still capable of getting a very respectable win over the likes of Nate Miller even when he was well past his best fighting age and weight.

Hearns had the overall ability though that can allow you to be successful even as you age. Leonard was a fantastic fighter, but a great deal of his success was reliant on his speed and reflexes...aging is never kind to those fighters.

[Kalan]

BOTH factors were working against Algieri... He's been knocked down 11 times in his last 5 fights---not a very good sign for your chin... He needs an outstanding strength trainer, because everybody in Boxing knows he's weak as Hell... They'll come after him.

Keith Mullings was a massive underdog against Terry Norris.. He had only 1 win in his pervious 6 fights.. They asked Mullings what his strategy was against Norris.. He smiled. "Well...we know Terry can't take a real good punch. So like anybody else would do, I plan on knocking him out." ... He did too.

[Kalan]

With Leonard... Once he got rich he lacked the same consistency. It was that way with Dempsey, Louis, Tyson, Ali, Toney etc. Once they lived in the lap of luxury the incentive to get up at 5AM and get the road work in -- and put in another hard day of training and sparring wasn't that appealing to them.

When you're poor it's very easy to work hard... You need to make the house payment. You need to save for your children's education. Your next vacation is coming up and you want everybody dressed well when you go places.. But once you have 15 or 20 million dollars there's an amazing amount of investment income coming in.. Lately that's not as true but it was in the 90's.. You could easily retire if you wanted to -- so you actually need to care about your legacy.. You need to love Boxing as a sport to keep going strong after you've been doing it for 20 years.. Otherwise it's drudgery.

[Controversial]

With Leonard... Once he got rich he lacked the same consistency. It was that way with Dempsey, Louis, Tyson, Ali, Toney etc. Once they lived in the lap of luxury the incentive to get up at 5AM and get the road work in -- and put in another hard day of training and sparring wasn't that appealing to them.

When you're poor it's very easy to work hard... You need to make the house payment. You need to save for your children's education. Your next vacation is coming up and you want everybody dressed well when you go places.. But once you have 15 or 20 million dollars there's an amazing amount of investment income coming in.. Lately that's not as true but it was in the 90's.. You could easily retire if you wanted to -- so you actually need to care about your legacy.. You need to love Boxing as a sport to keep going strong after you've been doing it for 20 years.. Otherwise it's drudgery.

Thats what I like about Mayweather Jr, to keep that level of professionalism, fitness, interest and desire when he has been a multi multi millionaire for so long is quite incredible. I don't like him as a person, and don't particularly like watching him fight either, but to achieve what he has deserves respect.

[elmersalsa]

With Leonard... Once he got rich he lacked the same consistency. It was that way with Dempsey, Louis, Tyson, Ali, Toney etc. Once they lived in the lap of luxury the incentive to get up at 5AM and get the road work in -- and put in another hard day of training and sparring wasn't that appealing to them.

When you're poor it's very easy to work hard... You need to make the house payment. You need to save for your children's education. Your next vacation is coming up and you want everybody dressed well when you go places.. But once you have 15 or 20 million dollars there's an amazing amount of investment income coming in.. Lately that's not as true but it was in the 90's.. You could easily retire if you wanted to -- so you actually need to care about your legacy.. You need to love Boxing as a sport to keep going strong after you've been doing it for 20 years.. Otherwise it's drudgery.

Thats what I like about Mayweather Jr, to keep that level of professionalism, fitness, interest and desire when he has been a multi multi millionaire for so long is quite incredible. I don't like him as a person, and don't particularly like watching him fight either, but to achieve what he has deserves respect.

In a way, of what he did on boxing, yes! But, let's not get over ourselves here. Pretty Boy Floyd sometimes fought twice or once a year. Guys like the great Muhammad Ali, or the great Mike Tyson, even when they were making a lot of money, were still fighting about 3 to 5 fights a year. It's harder to do some roadwork fighting 3 or 4 times a year when you are waking up in silk pajamas. I don't disagree about what you have said, though. Greetings!

[Controversial]

In a way, of what he did on boxing, yes! But, let's not get over ourselves here. Pretty Boy Floyd sometimes fought twice or once a year. Guys like the great Muhammad Ali, or the great Mike Tyson, even when they were making a lot of money, were still fighting about 3 to 5 fights a year. It's harder to do some roadwork fighting 3 or 4 times a year when you are waking up in silk pajamas. I don't disagree about what you have said, though. Greetings!

I guess what's more impressive for me is Mayweather was always in great condition plus he had to make weight, heavyweights don't have weight limits to worry about. Also I think both Ali and Tyson continued fighting just for the money because they needed it, Mayweather didn't need it, he just loved having more.

[gilgamesh]

In a way, of what he did on boxing, yes! But, let's not get over ourselves here. Pretty Boy Floyd sometimes fought twice or once a year. Guys like the great Muhammad Ali, or the great Mike Tyson, even when they were making a lot of money, were still fighting about 3 to 5 fights a year. It's harder to do some roadwork fighting 3 or 4 times a year when you are waking up in silk pajamas. I don't disagree about what you have said, though. Greetings!

I guess what's more impressive for me is Mayweather was always in great condition plus he had to make weight, heavyweights don't have weight limits to worry about. Also I think both Ali and Tyson continued fighting just for the money because they needed it, Mayweather didn't need it, he just loved having more.

As extravagantly as he lives he might wind up needing every penny of what he made in the long run.

[Kalan]

That's why he was trying to piece together a Conor McGregor Fight... It would have been an easy way to go 50-0... Without that fight I don't think there's a prayer of Mayweather coming back... If you're clearing a million a month from your investments, that might not be enough for Mayweather... But if he had 100 or 200 million more he'd have a lot more freedom and he'll try to generate that by promoting.

I see Mayweather and De La Hoya being the biggest promoters in 10 years.. They're going to be more intense rivals as they learn the business.. Arum will be dead.. King will be dead.. Haymon hopefully will be broke, but I doubt it.. He's a cutthroat bastard.. The last promoter with a moral compass was Tex Rickard. Hopefully somebody like that comes along every 100 years.

[Controversial]

In a way, of what he did on boxing, yes! But, let's not get over ourselves here. Pretty Boy Floyd sometimes fought twice or once a year. Guys like the great Muhammad Ali, or the great Mike Tyson, even when they were making a lot of money, were still fighting about 3 to 5 fights a year. It's harder to do some roadwork fighting 3 or 4 times a year when you are waking up in silk pajamas. I don't disagree about what you have said, though. Greetings!

I guess what's more impressive for me is Mayweather was always in great condition plus he had to make weight, heavyweights don't have weight limits to worry about. Also I think both Ali and Tyson continued fighting just for the money because they needed it, Mayweather didn't need it, he just loved having more.

As extravagantly as he lives he might wind up needing every penny of what he made in the long run.

Possible but not likely, he's been quite canny in investments, he has properties everywhere, merchandise business and will go into some sort of promoting. Unless of course he goes the way of some rich sportsman and ends up with a huge tax bill or lawsuit that bankrupts him !!!

[bigjack]

I was there for that fight and although Leonard is my all time favourite fighter,Hearn's should have won,great fight and atmosphere though.

[Syntax Error]

I was there for that fight and although Leonard is my all time favourite fighter,Hearn's should have won,great fight and atmosphere though.

They were both well past their respective bests, but they still put on a great fight.

Hearns ate, slept & drank Leonard for 8 years waiting for his opportunity to get revenge & Leonard was as tough & game as it gets, so they were always going to put on a fight for the ages.

I bet if the two of them fought now, it would still be a great fight!

[bigjack]

I was there for that fight and although Leonard is my all time favourite fighter,Hearn's should have won,great fight and atmosphere though.

They were both well past their respective bests, but they still put on a great fight.

Hearns ate, slept & drank Leonard for 8 years waiting for his opportunity to get revenge & Leonard was as tough & game as it gets, so they were always going to put on a fight for the ages.

I bet if the two of them fought now, it would still be a great fight!

I didn't actually mind the draw myself,the result,on paper anyway meant nothing,the crowd knew who had won.

[Ambling Alp II]

I had it 112-112. The fight went back and forth between not much happening followed by a flurry by one of the tow or a good exchange. Leonard landed more punches, and hurt Hearns more than vice versa. Hearns did score the two knockdowns.

The key round was round three. Hearns hit Leonard with a punch in the back of the head followed by a shove. The referee called it a knockdown. At the very least, he should have waived off the knockdown. Had he done that, the would have been only one knockdown and Leonard would have won by a point.
He could have went further and deducted a point from Hearns. In that case, Leonard would have won the fight by two points.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

[BoxBuzz]

Unless you happen to be non-bias...then Hearns wins (just as Ray himself admits.)


Or if you are Hearns Biased, Hearns wins by 2 to 3 points or more.

It was close, but Hearns deserved the squeaker win in that encounter.


It's one of those fights, where the loser suffers no harm to his career or his reputation, because everyone kinda sorta knows what happened.

[Ambling Alp II]

On the other hand, Hearns himself said he no problem with it being called a draw. Leonard not only landed more punches, but hurt Hearns several times. People routinely look at the two knockdowns and look no further.

[Ambling Alp II]

Yes or no, did Hearns shove Leonard?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Yes or no, did Hearns shove Leonard?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Hearns was never a whiner, he had no problewm with the draw because he knew he won and so did everyone else.

[BoxBuzz]

Yeah, win lose or draw, he seemed pretty unaffected by judgments. Rare bird on that subject.
That quirk in his personality was the reason Hearns was not "psyched" by Roberto.....
Can't say the same for Marvin.

I really don't think Hearns suffered from any "doubts"

[Ambling Alp II]

Yes or no, did Hearns shove Leonard?

That sure was a tricky question, I guess that is why you did not answer it.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Yes or no, did Hearns shove Leonard?

That sure was a tricky question, I guess that is why you did not answer it.

[BoxBuzz]

Well like the Wepner shoe stompin' incident....it's in the books as a KD correct?

Not sure it's as certain as to it's cause though.

But...if it's ruled a KD....all the more reason to question the math of that outcome.