Joshua's last 4 opponents...

[gilgamesh]

Shavers couldn't KO hopeless Ron Stander in his prime... And Yates wouldn't KO Breazeale if he were 60.

You're right because Yates would be like 80 or 90 by then, but a fighter the level of Yates would be able to KO Breazeale well before he reaches the age of 60 because he's no good even now.

Breazeale's win over Mansour is the pinnacle of his career. He'll never get a better win than that, and he was a little fortunate to get that one, but he did what he had to do, and got the win. Got a big payday to get his ass whooped by AJ. Better than most guys with limited skills get in this sport.

[BoxBuzz]

Shavers couldn't KO hopeless Ron Stander in his prime... And Yates wouldn't KO Breazeale if he were 60.

You do understand that it's the opinions of those who were hit by Shavers that gave him the reputation for being so heavy handed...right?

the boxing community didn't just spin this rumor out of whole cloth....Most of his opponents claim that the guy wielded awesome power despite his other shortcomings.


So I think in this case, I should probably listen and put my trust in them.....and just keep your suggestion in mind as comic relief. There is really no reason to take your word for it over theirs. Is there?

Or did he hit you?

You know, I hadn't thought of it until just now.....But if he did, let me share something with you that may surprise you, When you are hit hard enough, it actually doesn't hurt.....so maybe you just didn't feel it at the time. However...if he did hit you, I suspect you may still be experiencing a few adverse affects.

[gp.]

So Kalan has created an alias in order to start a thread where he can reply to himself and make himself look like an idiot?

[Kalan]

Shavers couldn't KO hopeless Ron Stander in his prime... And Yates wouldn't KO Breazeale if he were 60.

You do understand that it's the opinions of those who were hit by Shavers that gave him the reputation for being so heavy handed...right?

the boxing community didn't just spin this rumor out of whole cloth....Most of his opponents claim that the guy wielded awesome power despite his other shortcomings.


So I think in this case, I should probably listen and put my trust in them.....and just keep your suggestion in mind as comic relief. There is really no reason to take your word for it over theirs. Is there?

Or did he hit you?

You know, I hadn't thought of it until just now.....But if he did, let me share something with you that may surprise you, When you are hit hard enough, it actually doesn't hurt.....so maybe you just didn't feel it at the time. However...if he did hit you, I suspect you may still be experiencing a few adverse affects.

Maybe you would... I understand Urban Legends... and I also understand that Stander, Quarry, Lyle, and Cobb all knocked the holy crap out of Shavers, withstood his punches -- and got rid of the swinger forthwith. They could take his... Shavers couldn't take their's

[foxdog1923]

Joshua last 4 opponents were only brought to the world boxings scenes attention, when Joshua fought them. Before that they were nobodies that fans all over gave no hope and guess what? They were right on both occasions. They were nobodies and they were no hopers.

Trying to dress up Breazeale and Whyte as formidable is over the top and you just need to watch Whytes last two fights (tough battles with nobodies) to come back down to earth and think 'who am I kiddin here?'

Anyway Joshuas career is NOW finally about to begin with Pulev coming up.

[BitPlayer]

had a combined record of 77 wins (61 KOs), 0 losses. What does that mean?

9-12-15 - Gary Cornish 21-0(12 KO's) - best win Ivica Perkovic 20-22
12-12-15 - Dillian Whyte 16-0(13 KO's) - best win Brian Minto 41-9
4-9-16 - Charles Martin 23-0-1(21 KO's) - best win Czar Glazkov 21-0-1(13) (by injury)
6-25-16 - Dominic Breazeale 17-0(15 KO's) - best win Amir Mansour 22-1-1(16) (by injury)

Nothing just numbers, you'll probably struggle to find a heavyweight belt holder with one defence under his belt who has better numbers in their last 4 than that, but look at the records of any dominant heavy from history and their last 4 after 1 defence will far surpass Joshuas opponents in terms of quality

Last 4 opponents after 1 defense of Heavyweight Title for the following:

Jim Jeffries: (2) Tom Sharkey 30-2-6... (2) Bob Fitzsimmons 52-3-3... Bob Armstrong 10-5-4... Pete Everett 22-3

Jack Johnson: Jack O'Brien 95-5-14... Tommy Burns 42-2-8... Ben Taylor 23-13-3... Jim Flynn 33-8-13

Jack Dempsey: Billy Miske 28-1-2... Jess Willard 21-3-1... Gunboat Smith 48-17-7... Carl Morris 41-6-1

Gene Tunney: Tom Heeney 32-8-5... (2) Jack Dempsey 54-5-9... Dan O'Dowd 15-18-1... Johnny Risko 13-5

Joe Louis: Timmy Farr 68-24-17... Jim Braddock 45-23-4... Natie Brown 32-22-7... Bob Pastor 21-1-2

Rocky Marciano: (2) Joe Walcott 51-17-2... Harry Matthews 81-3-5.... Bernie Reynolds 51-9-1... Gino Buonvino 24-14-8

Muhammad Ali: (2) Sonny Liston 35-2... Henry Cooper 27-8-1... Doug Jones 21-3-1... Charlie Powell 23-6-3

Lennox Lewis: Frank Bruno 36-3... Tony Tucker 48-1... Razor Ruddock 27-3-1... Mike Dixon 10-5

Vitali Klitschko... Juan Carlos Gomez 44-1... Samuel Peter 30-1... Danny Williams 32-3... Corrie Sanders 39-2

You guys condemn Martin and Breazeale for winning because of injury and laud Lennox Lewis for being behind on all scorecards but still winning because of injury versus Klitschko... You can't have it both ways... Breazeale was behind on all cards when a bitten tongue forced Mansour out... Martin-Glazkov was even on all cards after 2, but looked like he was taking control when Glazkov blew a knee... I had Martin winning both rounds.. One judge had Martin winning both rounds, 1 had it even, and 1 had Glazkov winning.

You ignore the most important best win part, the numbers on their own don't tell you much.
Andy Ruiz Jr is 28-0.
Kubrat Pulev is 23-1

But Pulev clearly has the better record.

[Counter-puncher]

Breazeale has been stopped once---by perfect KO record, 100% KO artist Anthony Joshua, who pounded him for 7 rounds... But Shavers was stopped by such underwhelming finishers as Ron Stander.. Randall Cobb.. Larry Holmes.. and Brian Yates

You may want to know who Brian Yates was... Yates had a 6% KO ratio... He stopped 6 of 102 opponents while losing 86 fights... Yet he knocked out Shavers

In 1995...that's kinda an important detail you left out there. Shavers has already retired for a 4 year stretch, and an 8 year stretch when he lost to Brian Yates. He was far beyond finished as a fighter of any significance by that point. Once again you simply cannot grasp that fighters age. You act as if Shavers losing to Brian Yates at 50 years old is somehow indicative of what he was capable of at his best. A truly laughable thought.
.

utterly execrable cherrypicking of facts by kalan, absolutely contemptible

[Kalan]

You're a flat out nutcase gilgamesh... If I guy has a 6% KO ratio he doesn't knock me out me out when I'm 70... 50 is pretty young to be knocked out by such a pathetically weak swinger. Who ever knocked out Bernard Hopkins???? ... Anyway, plenty of fighters knocked out Earnie Shavers early and often.. not just Yates

[Kalan]

Nothing just numbers, you'll probably struggle to find a heavyweight belt holder with one defence under his belt who has better numbers in their last 4 than that, but look at the records of any dominant heavy from history and their last 4 after 1 defence will far surpass Joshuas opponents in terms of quality

Last 4 opponents after 1 defense of Heavyweight Title for the following:

Jim Jeffries: (2) Tom Sharkey 30-2-6... (2) Bob Fitzsimmons 52-3-3... Bob Armstrong 10-5-4... Pete Everett 22-3

Jack Johnson: Jack O'Brien 95-5-14... Tommy Burns 42-2-8... Ben Taylor 23-13-3... Jim Flynn 33-8-13

Jack Dempsey: Billy Miske 28-1-2... Jess Willard 21-3-1... Gunboat Smith 48-17-7... Carl Morris 41-6-1

Gene Tunney: Tom Heeney 32-8-5... (2) Jack Dempsey 54-5-9... Dan O'Dowd 15-18-1... Johnny Risko 13-5

Joe Louis: Timmy Farr 68-24-17... Jim Braddock 45-23-4... Natie Brown 32-22-7... Bob Pastor 21-1-2

Rocky Marciano: (2) Joe Walcott 51-17-2... Harry Matthews 81-3-5.... Bernie Reynolds 51-9-1... Gino Buonvino 24-14-8

Muhammad Ali: (2) Sonny Liston 35-2... Henry Cooper 27-8-1... Doug Jones 21-3-1... Charlie Powell 23-6-3

Lennox Lewis: Frank Bruno 36-3... Tony Tucker 48-1... Razor Ruddock 27-3-1... Mike Dixon 10-5

Vitali Klitschko... Juan Carlos Gomez 44-1... Samuel Peter 30-1... Danny Williams 32-3... Corrie Sanders 39-2

You guys condemn Martin and Breazeale for winning because of injury and laud Lennox Lewis for being behind on all scorecards but still winning because of injury versus Klitschko... You can't have it both ways... Breazeale was behind on all cards when a bitten tongue forced Mansour out... Martin-Glazkov was even on all cards after 2, but looked like he was taking control when Glazkov blew a knee... I had Martin winning both rounds.. One judge had Martin winning both rounds, 1 had it even, and 1 had Glazkov winning.

You ignore the most important best win part, the numbers on their own don't tell you much.
Andy Ruiz Jr is 28-0.
Kubrat Pulev is 23-1

But Pulev clearly has the better record.

If Pulev fights Ruiz who will you have your money on??? ... Mine would be on Ruiz... I think he beats the crap out of Pulev... The only reason Ruiz has had tougher opponents is because he can't get a fight to save his life... He's a threat to beat all those top guys... but like Eddie Hearns says "he doesn't look the part"

[gilgamesh]

You're a flat out nutcase gilgamesh... If I guy has a 6% KO ratio he doesn't knock me out me out when I'm 70... 50 is pretty young to be knocked out by such a pathetically weak swinger. Who ever knocked out Bernard Hopkins???? ... Anyway, plenty of fighters knocked out Earnie Shavers early and often.. not just Yates

The comments you're making can only be the comments of a young man who doesn't know what it's like to get old. You were saying you were a trainer in the 60's, if that's so that would make you 60 or 70 something years old, and you wouldn't be saying things like this.

[Controversial]

You're a flat out nutcase gilgamesh... If I guy has a 6% KO ratio he doesn't knock me out me out when I'm 70... 50 is pretty young to be knocked out by such a pathetically weak swinger. Who ever knocked out Bernard Hopkins???? ... Anyway, plenty of fighters knocked out Earnie Shavers early and often.. not just Yates

Your once again picking at extremes to make a general point. How many fighters in the history of the sport were still as fit and capable as Hopkins was at that age? The guy is rare to say the least, maybe a one off. How many heavyweights aged 50 were still considered world class? Even Klitschko is slowing down and he eats properly, trains regularly, keeps his weight and does everything right and he is showing signs of decline and he is only 40. Shavers was 50 and having his 89th fight. He was completely shot and he had zero punch resistance left, using that fight to prove a point is ridiculous unless you think Shavers was still as good as he was in his prime years?

[Kalan]

Oh come on... It's not just Hopkins who fought as an oldie.. Other boxers like Larry Holmes and George Foreman fought when they were 50 and older.

But any ex-boxer who's sparred when they're well past 50 knows you can still take a good punch at that age -- about as good as you ever could.. A weak hitter isn't going to hurt you, or shouldn't.. You know damned well you can still punch a ton when you're 50 or 60 years old -- so if you're still taking fights at that age with super weak opponents like Yates -- and bear in mind Shavers wasn't fighting the kind of opponents Larry Holmes was fighting at age 50 -- there's no reason in the world for a weak swinger who never knocks out the weakest opponents he ever fought, to ice your ass if you used to be a top fighter.

[Controversial]

Oh come on... It's not just Hopkins who fought as an oldie.. Other boxers like Larry Holmes and George Foreman fought when they were 50 and older.

But any ex-boxer who's sparred when they're well past 50 knows you can still take a good punch at that age -- about as good as you ever could.. A weak hitter isn't going to hurt you, or shouldn't.. You know damned well you can still punch a ton when you're 50 or 60 years old -- so if you're still taking fights at that age with super weak opponents like Yates -- and bear in mind Shavers wasn't fighting the kind of opponents Larry Holmes was fighting at age 50 -- there's no reason in the world for a weak swinger who never knocks out the weakest opponents he ever fought, to ice your ass if you used to be a top fighter.

I said how many HWs were still world class aged 50? Foreman stopped fighting aged 48. His punch power wasn't as good and he couldn't stop his last 4 opponents and struggled to beat a few. That's because he was on the decline. You could then argue that Foreman wasn't a great puncher because he couldn't KO Morrison, a fighter knocked out by Mercer. Of course that's nonsense because fighters decline with age.

Personally I never thought Shavers was a great fighter, he was a dangerous puncher nothing else, and punch power also declines with age.

[Kalan]

NO Heavyweights are world class at age 50... It might happen some day but I doubt it.. But if you ever WERE world class you should be able to beat somebody like Brian Yates at age 50.. Shavers obviously picked him for his horrible record and his vulnerability, not figuring on getting knocked out.

[Controversial]

NO Heavyweights are world class at age 50... It might happen some day but I doubt it.. But if you ever WERE world class you should be able to beat somebody like Brian Yates at age 50.. Shavers obviously picked him for his horrible record and his vulnerability, not figuring on getting knocked out.

I doubt any fighter plans to get knocked out. If you can't grasp the fact that fighters decline with age, and a different rates to each other, then it's a pointless debate. I doubt Tyson planned to get knocked out by McBride but it happened.

[Kalan]

Tyson got stopped... His knee went out against McBride the way it did with Williams... He was a sitting duck at that point so it made no sense. But Tyson did the sensible thing after that fight.. He said "This was my last fight.. I'm not going to disrespect the sport by losing to this caliber of fighter."

I know boxers deteriorate at different rates... But to see a once pretty good fighter get clobbered by a really terrible fighter is galling... I wish guys who were any good would just refuse to do it anymore if they can't prepare well or perform anymore... Like Riddick Bowe getting beaten to trash by an unknown kickboxer... Even the kickboxer was embarrassed by Bowe's lack of finesse, ability, and effort... He clearly didn't enjoy kicking Bowe into submission like a helpless hulk - if you're that freaking desperate for money there's got to be some job out there you can do.

[foxdog1923]

You're a flat out nutcase gilgamesh... If I guy has a 6% KO ratio he doesn't knock me out me out when I'm 70... 50 is pretty young to be knocked out by such a pathetically weak swinger. Who ever knocked out Bernard Hopkins???? ... Anyway, plenty of fighters knocked out Earnie Shavers early and often.. not just Yates

The comments you're making can only be the comments of a young man who doesn't know what it's like to get old. You were saying you were a trainer in the 60's, if that's so that would make you 60 or 70 something years old, and you wouldn't be saying things like this.

And that he spoke to Cus in regards to Wilt and he played Volley with Wilt and he spoke to Freddy Roach. Did I miss anything Google King Kalan?

[Controversial]

I know boxers deteriorate at different rates... But to see a once pretty good fighter get clobbered by a really terrible fighter is galling... I wish guys who were any good would just refuse to do it anymore if they can't prepare well or perform anymore... Like Riddick Bowe getting beaten to trash by an unknown kickboxer... Even the kickboxer was embarrassed by Bowe's lack of finesse, ability, and effort... He clearly didn't enjoy kicking Bowe into submission like a helpless hulk - if you're that freaking desperate for money there's got to be some job out there you can do.

I agree I hate seeing fighters continue fighting when they have nothing left (RJJ, Holyfield etc) but we all know (or should do) when fighters have reached a point that they are a shadow of their former self and would've easily beaten lesser opponents in their prime years. I don't think anyone has tried to make out Shavers was an ATG fighter, he was what he was, a big hitter, nothing more. To pick out losses when he was clearly past it is scraping the barrel somewhat.

[Cutman Scabbers]

Come to think of it Tyson was dominant for a couple years: James Smith 19-5... Trevor Berbick 31-4-1... Alfonzo Ratliff 21-3... Jose Ribalta 22-3-1

Far from a stellar group of opponents.

I would pick Bonecrusher Smith to beat Anthony Joshua

[Kalan]

I did not write the above quote... But Joshua would flatten the super hittable, super slow Smith in the 1st round.

One thing that bothers me is Joshua fought 5 X last year and only 2 X this year. That accounts for less than 9 rounds this year so I hope he's not living it up already. Punchers have to stay a little busier to stay sharp and keep moving forward in their skills. You can wind up like Mike Tyson if you start enjoying the fruits of your labor too early, when it all seems too easy.