I miss Carl Froch!

[Counter-puncher]

Anyone else really miss Froch? There's just not enough (if any) fighters like him! I was a big fan of Calzaghe but oddly enough I think I miss Froch more!

Totally agree mate, I am a massive Calzaghe fanboy but I miss froch more

Think it's got something to do with the way Calzaghe ended his career CP? Calzaghe kinda wound down in taking on Jones whereas Froch KO'd George Groves in front of 80,000 people at Wembley stadium (couldn't resist)

For me its that Calzaghes late career showed he could and should have taken more risks a lot earlier. Manlove aside, that eats at me, when I think about what Froch did

[handsofstone]

I miss him. He was great. Always willing to go balls to the wall. Tough as they come, strong fit and game. Can't believe he's being done down but that's boxing. The super six was superb. It's a shame there hasn't been any more.

I always read articles about the Super 6 being a failure but i disagree,i thought it would collapse before the end and sure there were some pull outs but all in all i thought it was brilliant,Taylor "retired" but i doubt he would have won anyhow,Kessler required eye surgery which nearly finished his career,bit of a freak accident really and eff knows what happened to Dirrell

If nothing else at least the Super 6 revealed who the top SMW in the world was.which is more than can be said to all other divisions bar HW.who knows how the 168 landscape would be percieved if it wasnt for that tournement.Ward would maybe still be seen as top dog but would he have fought Froch if he already won a title elsewhere??

Bit of a stretch criticising a fighter for fighting a fighter he fought when he might not have fought him when he did under other circumstances. I think that makes sense.

I never really liked Carl's personality, though I respected him as a fighter and still do. Thought he was going to lose his title against Taylor and I still don't know why Taylor didn't take that knee, but it was a fantastic win. I wish he'd have faced Degale before retiring but he had nothing else to prove and I'm sure he's financially secure, it's just the selfish nature of boxing, there's always another fight.

Im not criticising Ward or saying he would'nt have fought Froch,i was just point out the importance of the S6 for the SMW division,Andre's resume since the tournement finished though has been a bit meh,Rodriguez and Barrera were both unbeaten with power but untested,Dawson was probably the one with the biggest kudos at the time but its pretty much accepted he was drained at the weight so who knows

Ward still isnt popular despite being a P4P fighter,if he had won a title without beating a Froch or Kessler,would they have fought him,he may have brought nothing to the table

All speculation though,who knows,just be thankful for the super6 because for a few years in the 168 division,boxing got a wee glimpse of what it is like in UFC

[SAPFO]

Calzaghe makes Ward look normal all day.


Rolled the dice too late, but how good he was is understated.

Too easy. A British great for me.

[TheCobra]

Froch was always in good fights. When did Froch actually have a stinker except the Dirrell fight which was cos Dirrell was doing a road runner impression. Always gave value for money, always fought the top end guys with only really the one gimme (Mack) as others mentioned.

I miss Froch a lot, followed his career from the 2002 BBC shows, can't see myself buying into someone's career again like that with all the hype nowadays and one-sided mismatches.

As for arrogant? All the best people have a steely determination and self-belief. It's the British way that we knock down anyone like that, the actual real achievers. We like a wrong 'un, a pisspot like Hatton who is one of the lads rather than a true consumate pro like Froch who doesn't booze and stays at home with his family. End of the day who achieved more? If Froch was a German he'd be a national hero for them because they like winners, typical Brits we knock down the actual achievers if they are 'a bit arrogant'.

[Covfefe]

Ricky Hatton achieved more, two weight world champion, recognised best in his division, fought the two best pound for pound fighters of his era.

Carl Froch has never been the best in his division.

You make a good point though, with all the distractions Ricky went through and he still achieved that. Amazing really. He maybe could have done more if he had his head screwed on properly like Froch.

[Counter-puncher]

I think hattons talent restrictions held him back more than his lifestyle. With his short stocky frame and very short arms he couldn't resort to plan b boxing behind his jab like Froch could = limited shelf life at the top level IMO, I don't think a different lifestyle would mean he would have stuck around much longer and it wouldn't mean he'd beat FMJ or Pac.

[Covfefe]

I think hattons talent restrictions held him back more than his lifestyle. With his short stocky frame and very short arms he couldn't resort to plan b boxing behind his jab like Froch could = limited shelf life at the top level IMO, I don't think a different lifestyle would mean he would have stuck around much longer and it wouldn't mean he'd beat FMJ or Pac.

Oh no of course he wouldn't have beaten them, but there were fights he could have had that he would have been competitive in that he never took. He was never going to cut it at welter either, but with a focused lifestyle he could have had a longer reign and career at light welter.

[TheCobra]

Ricky Hatton achieved more, two weight world champion, recognised best in his division, fought the two best pound for pound fighters of his era.

Carl Froch has never been the best in his division.

You make a good point though, with all the distractions Ricky went through and he still achieved that. Amazing really. He maybe could have done more if he had his head screwed on properly like Froch.

Froch achieved more than Hatton. Hatton got flattened in his 2 biggest fights. He went through the first two thirds of his career beating overmatched guys, blown up lightweights and guys at the end of their career in fake WBU title fights. He largely avoided the genuine British and Euro best to gatecrash world level.

I loved Hatton at the time, don't get me wrong I've got a lot of respect for his achievements and how he brought in the wider public to boxing, but looking back at the 2 records and routes to success, I have to say Froch achieved more in terms of prestige belts won (WBC, WBA, IBF) and fighting the best guys available to him in their prime.

My view: Hatton had a largely padded record and was guided well towards the right fights at the right time and then ultimately came undone when he got to the very top level. Froch did it the hard way, through British, Euro and world level, travelling round, getting no favours at all.

[Covfefe]

Ricky Hatton achieved more, two weight world champion, recognised best in his division, fought the two best pound for pound fighters of his era.

Carl Froch has never been the best in his division.

You make a good point though, with all the distractions Ricky went through and he still achieved that. Amazing really. He maybe could have done more if he had his head screwed on properly like Froch.

Froch achieved more than Hatton. Hatton got flattened in his 2 biggest fights. He went through the first two thirds of his career beating overmatched guys, blown up lightweights and guys at the end of their career in fake WBU title fights. He largely avoided the genuine British and Euro best to gatecrash world level.

I loved Hatton at the time, don't get me wrong I've got a lot of respect for his achievements and how he brought in the wider public to boxing, but looking back at the 2 records and routes to success, I have to say Froch achieved more in terms of prestige belts won (WBC, WBA, IBF) and fighting the best guys available to him in their prime.

My view: Hatton had a largely padded record and was guided well towards the right fights at the right time and then ultimately came undone when he got to the very top level. Froch did it the hard way, through British, Euro and world level, travelling round, getting no favours at all.

You said achieved, Hatton had bigger fights, won titles in two divisions (froch wouldn't even entertain going north of 168, for very good reason too), and was the best in his division albeit briefly, he literally achieved more than Carl Froch.

Wortht pointing out too that Froch never got in a ring with anyone near as good as Mayweather or Pacquaio, Ward shut him out and dominated him and he's no Mayweather.

[TheCobra]

You said achieved, Hatton had bigger fights, won titles in two divisions (froch wouldn't even entertain going north of 168, for very good reason too), and was the best in his division albeit briefly, he literally achieved more than Carl Froch.

Is 'having a big fight' an achievement though? Hatton got big fights because of his following and his PPV standing. I would suggest his in-ring achievements are not in line with is reputation, especially with hindsight and looking back now through his record.

Hatton absolutely scraped a decision against Collazo for his '2 weight' title claim. Hatton also beat Tszyu after Tszyu had 18 months of inactivity and was also nearly 36. Like I said, right fights at the right time, a carefully plotted career versus Froch who just had to take fights that came his way, particularly in the Super 6 years.

If being very popular and being in big fights makes Hatton the bigger achiever then yep, you've nailed it mate.

[Rexob]

I really miss him.

Fought an almost uninterrupted murder's row: almost always 50/50, only slight favourite or expected to lose.

Was an actual fighter, had the bottle and the will to win and the chin to beat fighters more talented.

Going to see Froch live was fantastic: genuine excitement and tension, intrigue. Who will win? What will happen?

Froch may have been arrogant but was often humbled: by the Ward loss, by the fans turning on him over Groves. Now he has retired I think he is funny when interiewed. He has earned his swagger. What are the question marks over his career? He couldn't beat Ward? No shame in that. He ducked GGG? He was at the end and while I really really wanted to see it, i cannot begrudge him deciding to go out on his last win, one of the biggest nights in British boxing history.

He over takes Calzaghe in my opinion. Joe's biggest achievement was being undefeated and being the best in two weight divisions. His resume pales in camprison to the Frog though

Don't want much do you.

[Covfefe]

You said achieved, Hatton had bigger fights, won titles in two divisions (froch wouldn't even entertain going north of 168, for very good reason too), and was the best in his division albeit briefly, he literally achieved more than Carl Froch.

Is 'having a big fight' an achievement though? Hatton got big fights because of his following and his PPV standing. I would suggest his in-ring achievements are not in line with is reputation, especially with hindsight and looking back now through his record.

Hatton absolutely scraped a decision against Collazo for his '2 weight' title claim. Hatton also beat Tszyu after Tszyu had 18 months of inactivity and was also nearly 36. Like I said, right fights at the right time, a carefully plotted career versus Froch who just had to take fights that came his way, particularly in the Super 6 years.

If being very ppular and being in big fights makes Hatton the bigger achiever then yep, you've nailed it mate.

I'd say getting to the level where you're headlining in Vegas against the best fighters of a generation is an ahievement, yeah, wouldn't you? You keep banging on about the fights and how they were won, it doesn't matter, they are not achievements in and off themselves, the titles are and at the end of the day he won them, how he won them doesn't matter. You put two weight claim in apostrophies like its a joke, he won world titles in two weights nothing to sniff at, you can't even out two weight in apostrophies for Froch can you? You seem to be unable to understand what an achievement is.

[Horse]

Is 'having a big fight' an achievement though? Hatton got big fights because of his following and his PPV standing. I would suggest his in-ring achievements are not in line with is reputation, especially with hindsight and looking back now through his record.

Doing well in the big fight is the achievement.

The Pacquiao loss is a big negative for him rather than anything positive.

He was destroyed like he was a very low level journeyman. He deserves no credit for that performance whatsoever.

Hatton absolutely scraped a decision against Collazo for his '2 weight' title claim. Hatton also beat Tszyu after Tszyu had 18 months of inactivity and was also nearly 36. Like I said, right fights at the right time, a carefully plotted career versus Froch who just had to take fights that came his way, particularly in the Super 6 years.

If being very popular and being in big fights makes Hatton the bigger achiever then yep, you've nailed it mate.

Tszyu was only inactive for 7 months before the Hatton fight.

[TheCobra]

I'd say getting to the level where you're headlining in Vegas against the best fighters of a generation is an ahievement, yeah, wouldn't you? You keep banging on about the fights and how they were won, it doesn't matter, they are not achievements in and off themselves, the titles are and at the end of the day he won them, how he won them doesn't matter. You put two weight claim in apostrophies like its a joke, he won world titles in two weights nothing to sniff at, you can't even out two weight in apostrophies for Froch can you? You seem to be unable to understand what an achievement is.

Eh? So getting big fights in Vegas is an achievement. But winning fights is not? But then you're saying he won them? I'm confused now, you're contradicting yourself.

My argument remains the same. Froch fought many more prime guys than Hatton. Hatton was carefully guided to the point where he got the huge fights, then the wheels came off. Tszyu was aged, Collazo/Urango were just about passable, Castillo was shot to shit, Mayweather bossed him, then by the end of his career he was fighting Lazcano (who? but nearly KO'd him)/Malignaggi etc for IBO titles to guide him back to selling another big fight, where he cashed out against Pac and unfortunately got annihalated.

[Covfefe]

I'd say getting to the level where you're headlining in Vegas against the best fighters of a generation is an ahievement, yeah, wouldn't you? You keep banging on about the fights and how they were won, it doesn't matter, they are not achievements in and off themselves, the titles are and at the end of the day he won them, how he won them doesn't matter. You put two weight claim in apostrophies like its a joke, he won world titles in two weights nothing to sniff at, you can't even out two weight in apostrophies for Froch can you? You seem to be unable to understand what an achievement is.

Eh? So getting big fights in Vegas is an achievement. But winning fights is not? But then you're saying he won them? I'm confused now, you're contradicting yourself.

My argument remains the same. Froch fought many more prime guys than Hatton. Hatton was carefully guided to the point where he got the huge fights, then the wheels came off. Tszyu was aged, Collazo/Urango were just about passable, Castillo was shot to poo, Mayweather bossed him, then by the end of his career he was fighting Lazcano (who? but nearly KO'd him)/Malignaggi etc for IBO titles to guide him back to selling another big fight, where he cashed out against Pac and unfortunately got annihalated.

List Carl Froch's actual ahievements.

I was saying you're criticising how he won the titles but ultimately it doesn't matter as he won them. I don't really understand what makes that a contradiction.

[TheCobra]

Tszyu was only inactive for 7 months before the Hatton fight.

Sorry yep, just re-looked at his record, it was one fight in 2 and a half years he had before the Hatton fight. Definitely a great win and a great night for British boxing, but definitely caught him at the right time.

[TheCobra]

List Carl Froch's actual ahievements.

I was saying you're criticising how he won the titles but ultimately it doesn't matter as he won them. I don't really understand what makes that a contradiction.

English, Commonwealth, British x 5 (Lonsdale belt holder), European, WBC, WBA, IBF champion several times. Fought in 10 very genuine world title fights against the likes of Kessler, Taylor, Bute, Ward, Groves, Abraham, Dirrell, Pascal.

Most won, couple of points losses in other guy's backyards, never ever disgraced at world level, alway good to watch, didn't go to Vegas though and didn't fight Pac/Mayweather. Did achieve more actual in-ring than Hatton though (imho).

[samwbr]

I miss him. He was great. Always willing to go balls to the wall. Tough as they come, strong fit and game. Can't believe he's being done down but that's boxing. The super six was superb. It's a shame there hasn't been any more.

I always read articles about the Super 6 being a failure but i disagree,i thought it would collapse before the end and sure there were some pull outs but all in all i thought it was brilliant,Taylor "retired" but i doubt he would have won anyhow,Kessler required eye surgery which nearly finished his career,bit of a freak accident really and eff knows what happened to Dirrell

If nothing else at least the Super 6 revealed who the top SMW in the world was.which is more than can be said to all other divisions bar HW.who knows how the 168 landscape would be percieved if it wasnt for that tournement.Ward would maybe still be seen as top dog but would he have fought Froch if he already won a title elsewhere??

Bit of a stretch criticising a fighter for fighting a fighter he fought when he might not have fought him when he did under other circumstances. I think that makes sense.

I never really liked Carl's personality, though I respected him as a fighter and still do. Thought he was going to lose his title against Taylor and I still don't know why Taylor didn't take that knee, but it was a fantastic win. I wish he'd have faced Degale before retiring but he had nothing else to prove and I'm sure he's financially secure, it's just the selfish nature of boxing, there's always another fight.

Froch would have walloped Degale, even at 37. Degale is scared of him.

[Covfefe]

List Carl Froch's actual ahievements.

I was saying you're criticising how he won the titles but ultimately it doesn't matter as he won them. I don't really understand what makes that a contradiction.

WBC x 2, WBA, IBF

All at super middleweight.

Hatton won the IBF x 2 at lww, Wba at lww, as well as being the lineal champion and the rings champion there. He also won the WBA at welterweight.

Those are both's top level achievements, for me being a two weight world champion makes him slightly better achievement wise.

[TheCobra]

List Carl Froch's actual ahievements.

I was saying you're criticising how he won the titles but ultimately it doesn't matter as he won them. I don't really understand what makes that a contradiction.

WBC x 2, WBA, IBF

All at super middleweight.

Hatton won the IBF x 2 at lww, Wba at lww, as well as being the lineal champion and the rings champion there. He also won the WBA at welterweight.

Those are both's stop level achievements, for me being a two weight world champion makes him slightly better achievement wise.

Like I said though, except the Magee fight, Hatton jumped over genuine British and Euro level to fight road sweepers in fake WBU title fights to packed out arenas - they avoided the British level because I think they knew Hatton would potentially get beat by people there like Witter. I don't think he acheived as much, as he had matches very carefully made. Dissect Hattons record, look at how many of Hatton's opponents came up in weight.

That's the difference, Froch fought many prime guys, powerful punching guys who came back for more and won world titles themselves at the level after he beat them. You can't say the same for Lazcano, Castillo, Urango, the feather-fisted Malignaggi (who to be fair still carved out a nice little career but was ultimately very limited). Mediocre opponents. It seems to me that, barring Tszyu, Hatton is defined by his defeats at the top level rather than his wins. I still don't really recognise the Collazo fight as anything special either or him as ever a genuine welterweight. He got his ass handed to him whenever he fought at welterweight to be honest.

Froch cleaned up at every level, particularly British level, before moving on to the next level. He did it how it should be done really. A throwback fighter who should be celebrated, not shunned because he was a bit arrogant or whatever, or didn't go through the weights.

[samwbr]

An elite level fighter getting stick for being arrogant is mad.

[rd350lc]

An elite level fighter getting stick for being arrogant is mad.

You are probably right , but there are some elite fighters that don't come across like that , Golovkin springs to mind .

[Covfefe]

WBC x 2, WBA, IBF

All at super middleweight.

Hatton won the IBF x 2 at lww, Wba at lww, as well as being the lineal champion and the rings champion there. He also won the WBA at welterweight.

Those are both's stop level achievements, for me being a two weight world champion makes him slightly better achievement wise.

Like I said though, except the Magee fight, Hatton jumped over genuine British and Euro level to fight road sweepers in fake WBU title fights to packed out arenas - they avoided the British level because I think they knew Hatton would potentially get beat by people there like Witter. I don't think he acheived as much, as he had matches very carefully made. Dissect Hattons record, look at how many of Hatton's opponents came up in weight.

That's the difference, Froch fought many prime guys, powerful punching guys who came back for more and won world titles themselves at the level after he beat them. You can't say the same for Lazcano, Castillo, Urango, the feather-fisted Malignaggi (who to be fair still carved out a nice little career but was ultimately very limited). Mediocre opponents. It seems to me that, barring Tszyu, Hatton is defined by his defeats at the top level rather than his wins. I still don't really recognise the Collazo fight as anything special either or him as ever a genuine welterweight. He got his ass handed to him whenever he fought at welterweight to be honest.

Froch cleaned up at every level, particularly British level, before moving on to the next level. He did it how it should be done really. A throwback fighter who should be celebrated, not shunned because he was a bit arrogant or whatever, or didn't go through the weights.

How did he clean up at world level? He won titles yes but he was never at any point of his career the best SMW, intact he was dominated when he got the opportunity to prove it. You still don't seem to be able to understand what's being said, so I can't be bothered to continue its Saturday night who cares? Achievements are titles, there title haul is pretty similar except Hatton has the distinction of being the best in his division and winning at two weights, that separates them when we're talking about their achievements for me.

[stujones]

I miss Froch in so much that he made the division exciting and was big box office in the UK. I think if Froch was still around I think Ward would still be at Super Middle (where I think he belongs) - but the Super Middle division is now lacking the big name and that is why, in my opinion, GGG is still at Middle and Andre Ward is at Light Heavy.

[Horse]

How did he clean up at world level? He won titles yes but he was never at any point of his career the best SMW, intact he was dominated when he got the opportunity to prove it. You still don't seem to be able to understand what's being said, so I can't be bothered to continue its Saturday night who cares?

Froch was the best at super middleweight for a short time when Ward was having long periods of inactivity.

Achievements are titles, there title haul is pretty similar except Hatton has the distinction of being the best in his division and winning at two weights, that separates them when we're talking about their achievements for me.

Achievements are not just titles.

A good win in a non-title fight can be an achievement.

Hatton picking up a WBA trinket at welterweight, against a lower top 10 ranked fighter in a struggle, is not some fabulous achievement worth banging on about.